Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Shrimpbox, Nov 20, 2017.
Woa, CDZ Pete. Sorry someone up above offended you so greatly.
Nothing I said was insulting, it's the facts. I'll change it for YOU though.
I didn't have anything to say about that, and I didn't need to attempt to put words in someone else's mouth to make my points.
As the title asks about obstruction and denial of reality, I think it important that one address the specifics in the OP rather than dance around them using the rhetoric of deflection and framing. Thus I chose to directly challenge the sagacity and/or rationality or refute the veracity of specific points the OP-er used to support his overall theme and to provide a direct, albeit high-level answer, to his question about the extent to which Democrats have implemented policies that lead to economic progress.
I just realized that you couldn't make the rational inference that I must necessarily think the same singular existential and non-causal reason that Trump gets a "bump on the left" of his "T-account" is the same one that Obama and Clinton also receive. It's okay that you didn't make that connection; not everyone has the mental acuity to be part of the post's target audience, and even fewer folks realize they aren't yet also have the integrity to simply ask neutrally phrased intelligent questions so they might understand it.
I don't mind that you aren't particularly good at "putting two and two together." It happens. I just wonder why the hell you deign to respond to me while you are in that diminished state of being.
I listened to the show, so I know your assumption is wrong.
Well let’s take some of Xs points, cause he seems to believe his presentation discounts my points.
First of all, my op is more of a political statement with economics only being a corollary. Secondly, the polls are shaped by the way the questions are asked and in this case, the Economists bias, which is severe. Ok your,first,graph stops in 2017, not enough time to judge trump. Second graph, once again it is too soon to tell and it is a function of trumps bad media press not his accomplishments overseas. He has made almost a half dozen speeches that have received wisespread praise. He brought 50 Arab nations together. He has developed personal relationships leaders in the Pacific specifically. And X if you think that today Donald Trump is 50 points lower than Barack,obama in Japan, you are definitely smoking the good stuff. So that poll,is dubious at best.
The economy has grown faster under democratic presidents. This is cherry picked. You take out the Truman and Kennedy administrations and you have nothing.they were 60 years ago. Can we at least agree that today’s economy bears no resemblance to anything in the past. This is an old talking point. And job growth. Hah, you may not be old enough to remember the carter administration, but it endured the highest inflation of any administration and Reagan was elected because of the economic malaise of the carter administration.
I don’t have the time or interest to refute every one of your points. It is more important to point out that you are doing exactly what I claimed which is ignoring the good economic numbers under the first 10 months of the trump administration, and ignoring it big time. You are relying on all the pre and post election bad,press on Donald Trump to buttress your claims. Yeah, naysayers like ole Merkel are,headed down the tubes as we speak. Apparently her policies don’t speak for the people of Germany. But I bet she voted in your polls.
Here is the point of the op. Donald Trump has taken a world class beat down on both the domestic and international front, and yet he still,perseveres and succeeds. He came to power by believing in America, another cardinal sin. He is doing many good things for the citizens of America. After enough successes by the president people who hate him, who resist him, who try to stop him are going to be perceived as not having the best interests of the country at heart. That is not a good political position to be in. If republicans are smart, a big if, they will back their president and own his successes and challenge their democratic opponents to stop,the obstruction and resistance to a more prosperous and secure America.
So the recovery under Obama was due to Bush policies...
I think it is the reason why it was so slow in the beginning, because Obama had to overcome Bush policies.
And this proves my point.
You are attributing positive outcomes with the previous admin to the president in office but the current admin with the previous one.
No, you are being intentionally obtuse (the term 'intentionally' giving you the benefit of the doubt). As I stated originally, economists agree that it takes a long time, usually years, for administration policies to affect the economy. As I said, in the beginning years, Obama was overcoming Bush's policies, which is why the economy didn't show much improvement. Today, economists say that it is too early to tell if Trump's policies have anything to do with improvements in the economy. The reality is that the economy was already improving had and been improving for a long time before Trump took office. It has merely continued on that upswing. Not to do with Trump or his policies as he has only been in office one year.
Sorry, but other than evicting some of the incompetent commie bozoes of the Obama disaster Trump has yet to do anything but make some judicial appointments and repeal some of the more idiotic Obama EOs. That this might be good enough to have 5% GDP growth is simply a reaction to the endemic executive incompetence shown since Reagan left office does not demonstrate more than extremely minimal competence by Trump. Like Reagan following the Carter disaster. Trump looks good only by comparison.
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