Arlington Cemetery crosses removed

[Lonestar_logic]

Should all white crosses be removed from Arlington and all federal cemeteries? Since the US is looking at a stricter interpretation of the constitution regarding separation of church and state are the crosses violating this clause? Would a Muslim soldier buried there have a cross? A Jewish soldier?

They are mostly headstones. If one was a Christian, they will have a cross on it (different types for different denominations), if they wanted one. Muslims will have a symbol on theirs, Jews will have a symbol on theirs, etc.

They are headstones.

Normandy has crosses.

But each headstone bears either a cross or the star of David.

 

[bodecea]

Should all white crosses be removed from Arlington and all federal cemeteries? Since the US is looking at a stricter interpretation of the constitution regarding separation of church and state are the crosses violating this clause? Would a Muslim soldier buried there have a cross? A Jewish soldier?

Each plot of a cemetary is unique to that individual who gets to (or family gets to) pick the religious symbol used on the head stone. The government is not in control of that choice...and has been sued for restricting individual private choice of headstone in the past. Hardly the government putting those headstones up.

 

[bodecea]

PS: Jewish soldiers have the Star of David on their graves dumbass

Now they do.

 

[syrenn]

Should all white crosses be removed from Arlington and all federal cemeteries? Since the US is looking at a stricter interpretation of the constitution regarding separation of church and state are the crosses violating this clause? Would a Muslim soldier buried there have a cross? A Jewish soldier?

I am all for separation of church and state. What you ask about Arlington has nothing to do with chruch and state. What you are asking is separating the religion of choice from the fallen dead.

If you have ever gone to a military cemetery you will see that not all markers are crosses. The crosses go on graves of soldiers who have stated they are christian. Star of Davids go on jewish soldiers graves. I am not sure what the muslim symbol is (the star and crescent?) but i am sure that is what would be used as a marker.

So what is the difference between this:

Should Utah Have to Remove Roadside Memorial Crosses? - TIME NewsFeed
​

And the topic being discussed?

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

 

[Missourian]

I am all for separation of church and state. What you ask about Arlington has nothing to do with chruch and state. What you are asking is separating the religion of choice from the fallen dead.

If you have ever gone to a military cemetery you will see that not all markers are crosses. The crosses go on graves of soldiers who have stated they are christian. Star of Davids go on jewish soldiers graves. I am not sure what the muslim symbol is (the star and crescent?) but i am sure that is what would be used as a marker.

So what is the difference between this:

Should Utah Have to Remove Roadside Memorial Crosses? - TIME NewsFeed
​

And the topic being discussed?

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

So it's a "wall of separation between church and state" except in cemeteries?

Edit - Also, many of cemeteries themselves are located at the "spot of death" of the fallen.


Antietam:
http://www.nps.gov/anti/photosmultimedia/Modern-Photographs.htm

Springfield:
http://www.cem.va.gov/cems/nchp/springfield.asp

Chatanooga:
http://www.cem.va.gov/cems/nchp/chattanooga.asp

 

[Father Time]

Should all white crosses be removed from Arlington and all federal cemeteries? Since the US is looking at a stricter interpretation of the constitution regarding separation of church and state are the crosses violating this clause? Would a Muslim soldier buried there have a cross? A Jewish soldier?

Here is the list of offically approved religous symbols for grave markers at Arlington National Cemetery:

Authorized Emblems

It's interesting to note that one can choose to be buried with a symbol on your headstone denoting that you are an ATHEIST!

Well, there you go. Everyone should be perfectly satisfied, and what's it to anyone what a total stranger has on his headstone?

The whole headstone removal thing is a non-existent controversy. The ACLU never went after it, no real liberal group ever went after it.

What they did go after is the army or the government making a monument to soldiers, and making the monument nothing more than a giant cross.

 

[Father Time]

So what is the difference between this:

Should Utah Have to Remove Roadside Memorial Crosses? - TIME NewsFeed
​

And the topic being discussed?

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

So it's a "wall of separation between church and state" except in cemeteries?

Headstones are placed by the deceased family not the state.

 

[Missourian]

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

So it's a "wall of separation between church and state" except in cemeteries?

Headstones are placed by the deceased family not the state.

Not true.

A temporary grave marker is used to mark the grave following the interment. A permanent grave marker will be furnished free of charge by the Government without application from the family. Every effort is made to have the grave marker delivered and set within 60 days from the day of interment.

Cemeteries - Springfield National Cemetery - Burial and Memorial Benefits​

 

[Cecilie1200]

Y'know what? I don't care if the government or the families are paying for the headstones in Arlington. It's irrelevant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we bury people in Arlington in order to honor their outstanding service to their country, and I just don't see it as being much of an honor if we insist on imposing our petty little personal agendas on them when they can't fight back and separating them from their religious beliefs. To put it bluntly, it's about THEM, not YOU, so get the fuck over yourself and your issues and BUTT OUT of what other people have on their fucking headstones. As long as every effort is being made to respect the beliefs of everyone equally, I say we all give a try to putting something and someone else ahead of ourselves for once.

 

[syrenn]

So what is the difference between this:

Should Utah Have to Remove Roadside Memorial Crosses? - TIME NewsFeed
​

And the topic being discussed?

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

So it's a "wall of separation between church and state" except in cemeteries?

Edit - Also, many of cemeteries themselves are located at the "spot of death" of the fallen.


Antietam:
Antietam National Battlefield - Modern Photographs (U.S. National Park Service)

Springfield:
Cemeteries - Springfield National Cemetery - Burial and Memorial Benefits

Chatanooga:
Cemeteries - Chattanooga National Cemetery - Burial and Memorial Benefits

Military Cemeteries are not abut the state. Antietam, Springfield and Chattanooga are battle fields not the sides of roads.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

PS: Jewish soldiers have the Star of David on their graves dumbass

yep...

why would it bother anyone that people who died in the service of their country are comforted in death by religious symbols?

Ask the whacko lefties that support shit like this.

 

[Missourian]

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

So it's a "wall of separation between church and state" except in cemeteries?

Edit - Also, many of cemeteries themselves are located at the "spot of death" of the fallen.


Antietam:
Antietam National Battlefield - Modern Photographs (U.S. National Park Service)

Springfield:
Cemeteries - Springfield National Cemetery - Burial and Memorial Benefits

Chatanooga:
Cemeteries - Chattanooga National Cemetery - Burial and Memorial Benefits

Military Cemeteries are not abut the state. Antietam, Springfield and Chattanooga are battle fields not the sides of roads.

Show me the State Trooper Cemetery.

Do they not serve, in uniform, to protect American's?

A Troopers battlefield IS the side of the road.

 

[Missourian]

yep...

why would it bother anyone that people who died in the service of their country are comforted in death by religious symbols?

Are policemen and state troopers who are killed in the line of duty not allowed the the same comfort?

 

[Againsheila]

Should all white crosses be removed from Arlington and all federal cemeteries? Since the US is looking at a stricter interpretation of the constitution regarding separation of church and state are the crosses violating this clause? Would a Muslim soldier buried there have a cross? A Jewish soldier?

They removed them from the cemetery where my dad is buried, and put in tombstones instead, at much greater expense....how about we let the families choose? Then again, who wouldn't go for a free headstone at taxpayers expense, you can still have a cross engraved on it.

 

[syrenn]

So it's a "wall of separation between church and state" except in cemeteries?

Edit - Also, many of cemeteries themselves are located at the "spot of death" of the fallen.


Antietam:
Antietam National Battlefield - Modern Photographs (U.S. National Park Service)

Springfield:
Cemeteries - Springfield National Cemetery - Burial and Memorial Benefits

Chatanooga:
Cemeteries - Chattanooga National Cemetery - Burial and Memorial Benefits

Military Cemeteries are not abut the state. Antietam, Springfield and Chattanooga are battle fields not the sides of roads.

Show me the State Trooper Cemetery.

Do they not serve, in uniform, to protect American's?

A Troopers battlefield IS the side of the road.

State troopers are not military. We are discussing military cemeteries. You yourself link to military cemeteries. If the state troopers are ex military they have the right to be berried in a military cemetery. With i might add, a marker of their religious choice.

Sorry, the side of the road is NOT a battle field nor is it a cemetery. There is no clause in a state troopers contract that gives them the right to a burial on the side of the road. Anyone who serves in the military is guaranteed a place in a military cemetery.

 

[del]

yep...

why would it bother anyone that people who died in the service of their country are comforted in death by religious symbols?

Are policemen and state troopers who are killed in the line of duty not allowed the the same comfort?

yup. at their graves, just like service personnel.

 

[Againsheila]

I am all for separation of church and state. What you ask about Arlington has nothing to do with chruch and state. What you are asking is separating the religion of choice from the fallen dead.

If you have ever gone to a military cemetery you will see that not all markers are crosses. The crosses go on graves of soldiers who have stated they are christian. Star of Davids go on jewish soldiers graves. I am not sure what the muslim symbol is (the star and crescent?) but i am sure that is what would be used as a marker.

So what is the difference between this:

Should Utah Have to Remove Roadside Memorial Crosses? - TIME NewsFeed
​

And the topic being discussed?

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

I disagree...the roadside memorials is a reminder to us all....seen any "don't drink and drive" signs lately? Many of them have names under them of those that were killed in that area due to drunk drivers. For some, the place the person died is more important than where the body is buried. Just like the day they were born is more important than the day they died.

I am much more emotional about where my brother died than where he is buried.

 

[Missourian]

Military Cemeteries are not abut the state. Antietam, Springfield and Chattanooga are battle fields not the sides of roads.

Show me the State Trooper Cemetery.

Do they not serve, in uniform, to protect American's?

A Troopers battlefield IS the side of the road.

State troopers are not military. We are discussing military cemeteries. You yourself link to military cemeteries. If the state troopers are ex military they have the right to be berried in a military cemetery. With i might add, a marker of their religious choice.

Sorry, the side of the road is NOT a battle field nor is it a cemetery. There is no clause in a state troopers contract that gives them the right to a burial on the side of the road. Anyone who serves in the military is guaranteed a place in a military cemetery.

And we're right back where we started.

A soldier gets a government funded religious marker placed on government land, regardless of whether or not a body was recovered.

But a policeman cannot have a government funded religious marker on government funded land.

On April 28, 2010, the US Supreme Court ruled on Salazar v. Buono in a 5-4 decision that the cross may stay. The high court ruled there was no violation of the separation of church and state when Congress transferred the land surrounding the cross to a veteran's group.[6] Writing for the majority, Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote, "The goal of avoiding governmental endorsement [of religion] does not require eradication of all religious symbols in the public realm"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojave_Memorial_Cross
​

 

[syrenn]

So what is the difference between this:

Should Utah Have to Remove Roadside Memorial Crosses? - TIME NewsFeed
​

And the topic being discussed?

Arlington is a cemetery. Markers are not placed at the spot of death of the fallen. Markers are placed where the body rests.

I agree ALL road markers should be removed. The roadway is not a cemetery nor is it where the body rests.

I disagree...the roadside memorials is a reminder to us all....seen any "don't drink and drive" signs lately? Many of them have names under them of those that were killed in that area due to drunk drivers. For some, the place the person died is more important than where the body is buried. Just like the day they were born is more important than the day they died.

I am much more emotional about where my brother died than where he is buried.

I understand the sentiments of the families. The road side thing is only a reminder to the people it effects, not the thousands of other people driving by.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Congress shall pass no law regarding the establishment of religion nor interfere with the free exercise therof. (from memory)

I would think the headstone belongs to the soldier, and it really isn't the right of the government (whom he died defending) to mess with it.

I would agree with this. You earn a right to be buried at Arlington, the burial plot is, or should be considered to belong to the deceased, therefore it's not a religious symbol being put up by the government on government property.