Arguing with libs, Uuuggggggg!

[Subhumus]

Arguing with liberals is a really tough proposition. I’ve engaged in many a debate with a large cross section of mainstream liberals. They'll quickly run out of facts and precedent, and it almost always ends with them calling me cruel, heartless, racist, fascist, or whatever other label they want to slap on me. None of them want to even hear a conservative viewpoint, nor do they really want to debate or learn anything different from their own viewpoint.

gotta link, lance.

Asshole Files

Liberals are always right, and conservatives know it. They just want to continue doing wrong.

Think about every situation.

Slavery. Liberals said it was wrong, conservatives wanted to keep their slaves because they were valuable.

I understand the conservatives position, but that doesn't mean they aren't wrong. But I guess it all depends on who you ask. Generally in a democracy where the government is supposed to protect the masses, conservatives are "wrong" if you ask the masses.

But if you ask the rich men who own the oil companies, gas should be $4 a gallon. And conservatives won't even admit the oil companies gouged us. Hell, some of them even defend the oil companies right to charge whatever they want to charge. They say that's capitalism.

Conservatives didn't want companies to pay health insurance or give workers rights to unionize. If conservatives got their way, America would have never had a strong middle class. That was FDR and the Unions.

But that wouldn't have been bad for "conservatives", because they are the ones who own everything.

And that brings me to middle class conservatives. They are just fools voting outside their own pay grades.

This has got to be the most asinine and utterly FALSE post I have ever read concerning the perception of conservative vs. liberal. Remember Abraham Lincoln you idiot? HE WAS A REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE you JACK ASS. And don't give me that socialist engineering horse crap that includes: "well, conservatives were different then"

All us evil whities want them slaves right? You JOKER.

No, Liberals don't want to own just "anything", they want to own and CONTROL EVERYTHING you brainwashed 3rd grade government student.

What do you think the "liberals" are ATTEMPTING (it will be over thrown after this November because of the pathetic dupe job that the used car salesman Obama has done so far) to do to the healthcare industry. Are you REALLY stupid enough to buy into the "we're doing this all for you" horseshit?

*THIS* is what's WRONG with the USA. Plain and simple. Go smoke some more dope.

 

[Cuyo]

In fact progressives actually have little or no love for people at all. If you all truly believed in freedom and liberty...

Wait wait wait. How can anyone take you seriously...or even compromise with you when you say something as spew-tastic as this. You need to take your wide paintbrush and keep moving.

So tell me what exactly on the libby progressive platform increases rather than decreases the ability of one to make his own choices?

Is it forcing people to buy health insurance?
Is it banning certain types of foods?
Is it forcing people to recycle?
Is it taking more of our money away from us to expand government?

Tell me because if there is something that the libby progressives want to do that will increase my liberties and expand my freedom of choice and allow me to keep more of the money I earn I want to know.

Are you an anarchist? I'm just wondering. Because really, any government at all can be construed as "Taking away freedom."

A few years ago, the socialist FDA took Vioxx off the market because it was, ya know, killing people. Did that not infringe upon your liberties a bit? Did they not take away your right to take Vioxx?

It's not as simple as "Anything government=Bad; Less government=Good." We are the government. What we do in that capacity is a matter of what makes sense and in what capacities the power of all of us is better than each of us individually. It's a balancing act that has been taking place since we walked upright.

 

[Big Bad Bob]

I have asked my Jewish friends many times why they support the democrats. The answer is always the same. "That's just what we do."

Well my friends... it's time to make a change!

 

[midcan5]

How boring it would be if conservatives didn't have liberals, progressives, or whomever to use as a foil for their failed policies. Check out Manchester's 'glory and the dream' for a different time but the same rhetoric.

======================= repost

What is a Conservative in America? I offer this quick definition, a conservative is a person or group of people who blame everything they disagree with, or consider wrong with the world, on Liberals. Too simple you say. Given our current right wing media spin I challenge a counter definition. We live today in a sort of straw man world in which we have the good guys here and the bad guys there?

Even as I formulate the question, it occurs to me how difficult it is as the only definitions I can think of are in opposition to something else. Government is a big example. Government is not good to conservatives because it comes with a cost taxes, and taxes are bad, or regulation and regulation is bad. There are a great many items that could be added here, <b>I would like any conservative offering a solid answer grounded in real ideas, values, and people on what it means to be a conservative to stop reading my words and reply first.</b>

The idea that one defines themselves only in opposition to another makes for an interesting dilemma in that self criticism becomes impossible because then one has turned the light on themselves and it isn't clear what the self is without the opponent. You see an odd twist on this in this administration when medals are give to policy makers who have failed completely.

And when you point out the foundations of liberty in our own society are products of liberalism you are told that it has changed and today it is only about a welfare state (more on that in a latter post). Consider for a moment that the chief criticism aimed at liberals is that they try to help others. Isn't that a Christian thing to do? Of course you have successes and some failure but at least you tried. Even if the criticism were accurate would that be so bad?

It is often said that liberals today do not have a solid political, moral, or philosophic grounding, we are all over the place and flip flop, a term made wonderfully pejorative during the last presidential election, but are conservatives consistent? We are considered relativistic so does any such thing as a consistent conservative ethos exist? From my experience, observation, and reading it does not.

So maybe it is conservatives who have changed? Does anyone really want to go back to the ideas of Edmund Burke, particularly in regard to religion? Some on the far right may. Who then is representative of a conservative today? the current administration, William Buckley, Robert Novak, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Michael Medved, William J. Bennett, George Will, Drudge, Fox News, Weekly Standard, National Review, or the many Conservative think tanks that seems more concerned with corporate power and partisan propaganda.

In Russell Kirk's six definitions of a conservative the only one that differs from most people, liberal or otherwise is the idea of class and yet I never hear a conservative mention that one out loud. I see lots of examples of it as far as attitude or behavior, but to say that in America is contrary to our beliefs. Does that mean conservatives do not believe in the fundamental beliefs of America? Witness for instance Barbara Bush's attitude towards the victims of Katrina.

So what do they believe in? Few conservatives I know are alike, they are all over the place, they all flip flop. For abortion they are on both sides, for gay marriage they are on both sides, government regulation they are on both sides, and so really when examined closely conservatives have no consistent foundation. The only real difference here is the presentation by the right of a difference and that is why they need liberals. Maybe we are really all moderates when it comes down to it.

Someone will say that but "this is a genuine conservative," and I say show me.

So again, if all you do is criticize another what are you?

+++++++

PS There is no civilization founded on conservative principles as conservatism is merely reactionary. See: Harvard University Press: The Rhetoric of Reaction : Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy by Albert O. Hirschman
"He argues that a triplet of 'rhetorical' criticisms--perversity, futility, and jeopardy--'has been unfailingly leveled' by 'reactionaries' at each major progressive reform of the past 300 years--those T. H. Marshall identified with the advancement of civil, political and social rights of citizenship..."

 

[CMike]

There are a few problems with discussions with liberals.

1) They post lies. Their left wing bloggers and leaders tell them something and they never question it. They outright lie. The liberals count on that the political damage will gain them points, whether what they are saying is true or not.

2) They are utterly vicious and vile. They have no morals, and will do anything to "win".

They will go after minor children, it it achieves their ends.

3) They care more about America's enemies than about America. We say this by how Obama was obsessed with Al Qaida terrorist "rights".

Here are the top 10 liberal lies.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1978892-post1.html

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

Progressives are not in favor of people making their own choices,

Which is why the progressive movement gave women suffrage, criminalized spousal rape, and fought so coloured people could use whatever drinking fountain they wanted...

I gave you a few links to real discussions about liberalism and it breaks down.

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

There are a few problems with discussions with liberals.

Good think you weren't around to have to deal with those lying Founding Fathers, then

 

[Vanquish]

There are a few problems with discussions with liberals.

1) They post lies. Their left wing bloggers and leaders tell them something and they never question it. They outright lie. The liberals count on that the political damage will gain them points, whether what they are saying is true or not.

2) They are utterly vicious and vile. They have no morals, and will do anything to "win".

They will go after minor children, it it achieves their ends.

3) They care more about America's enemies than about America. We say this by how Obama was obsessed with Al Qaida terrorist "rights".

Here are the top 10 liberal lies.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1978892-post1.html

Ok. You won. You get the tin-foil hat award for today. Go see CaliGirl for your prize.

Nothing you say after this point is worth reading because you obviously:
1. dont have the ability to be objective
2. wont concede that your opponents ever have a good idea
3. you make sweeping (and insulting I might add) generalizations that couldnt POSSIBLY be considered factual

Do you even realize how much of a partisan hack you come off as?

 

[AllieBaba]

There are a few problems with discussions with liberals.

Good think you weren't around to have to deal with those lying Founding Fathers, then

Is there some sort of trigger that gets tripped every time someone says "liberal" that makes liberals receite the "founding fathers" and make the egregious claim that they were made of the same cloth as today's communists?

There must be.

 

[MaggieMae]

I rather like the comment from the proverbial "man on the street" when one of CNN's roving reporters asked the question how he felt about all the political angst, and he said "I'm 80 years old and I really don't give a shit. Why should I?" Not quite 80 yet, but those are fast becoming my sentiments too.

You know, I hear you. I recently got to thinking - what earthly good does it do any one individual to get all riled up over all of this. Chances are that NONE of ANY of it is going to have effect ONE on thee or me.

Howz about we go fishing?

You and moi? Only if you don't drag Jerry, Kramer and Elaine along.

 

[MaggieMae]

i hate everybody.

it's a real timesaver.

I rather like the comment from the proverbial "man on the street" when one of CNN's roving reporters asked the question how he felt about all the political angst, and he said "I'm 80 years old and I really don't give a shit. Why should I?" Not quite 80 yet, but those are fast becoming my sentiments too.

i was talking to my father in law the other day. he's 91 and pretty much an old school liberal. he, like me, is pretty much disgusted with what passes for the body politic these days. too much heat and not enough light.

Yup. Leave it to an old timer to hit the nail on the head.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yeah> Compare that to Sealybobo, Zona, Bfgrn, wry catcher, chrissy, YOU , et al ... and tell me what's the difference

The hackles on my back go up when someone accuses me, by an all-inclusive stupid remark, that I don't love my country as much as he does. I'm not talking about tit-for-tat shit talk, which anyone who visits this board is very used to. But when my patriotism is questioned, had Mike been in the room with me, he could have gotten the palm of my hand across his face. Got it?

It's that violent liberal extremism speaking.

That makes no sense, unless of course you consider a slap is worse than one of the proud soldiers who post here regularly who threaten with guns and swords and such at the slightest whiff of unpatriotism.

 

[MaggieMae]

The term liberal and conservative has changed dramatically during the years.

Basically today's liberal is for centralized government control, weak national security, etc.

A conservative is for loose centralized control and strong on national security.

Also liberals seem to hate America and support America's enemies.

Conservatives love America and what it means, and support America's allies.

you don't even know what the words conservative and liberal mean.

and your idea that only the rightwingnuts 'support america' is beyond retarded.

Well, I don't see "rightwingnuts" going to church where "God Damn America" is part of the Sermon, not do I recall them burning the US Flag to show their "support."

It's the blanket generalization that's offensive, not particular groups who hate America.

 

[AllieBaba]

The hackles on my back go up when someone accuses me, by an all-inclusive stupid remark, that I don't love my country as much as he does. I'm not talking about tit-for-tat shit talk, which anyone who visits this board is very used to. But when my patriotism is questioned, had Mike been in the room with me, he could have gotten the palm of my hand across his face. Got it?

It's that violent liberal extremism speaking.

That makes no sense, unless of course you consider a slap is worse than one of the proud soldiers who post here regularly who threaten with guns and swords and such at the slightest whiff of unpatriotism.

You stupid bitch. Name a name. Because none of our soldiers threaten anyone on here. The only douchebags who threaten are your buddies. The ones who get zapped outta here every now and then.

 

[MaggieMae]

The term liberal and conservative has changed dramatically during the years.

Basically today's liberal is for centralized government control, weak national security, etc.

A conservative is for loose centralized control and strong on national security.

Also liberals seem to hate America and support America's enemies.

Conservatives love America and what it means, and support America's allies.

Such insulting bullshit. After the attacks of 911 and Bush's popularity skyrocketed into the 90 percentile, do you honestly believe a 45% increase from where he was before the attacks was attributable to just Republicans? Try avoiding such moronic statements, and your credibility would go much further.

Have you forgotten who Barak Hussein's mentor is?

This is the mentor of your head democrat marxist dictator

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=617eK2XIaLk]YouTube - Best of Jeremiah Wright's Sermons Pt. 1[/ame]

What does the Reverend Wright have to do with ME?! Does he speak for every non-Republican/conservative? Of course not, you stupid fool. And to jog your memory, you weren't talking about OBAMA, asshole, you made a direct accusation that anyone who doesn't share an extremist right-wing opinion such as yours (i.e., "liberals"--another collective misnomer) must be UNAmerican.

Your continued ignorant conclusions are laughable. Barack HUSSEIN Obama (a birther are ya?) is hardly a Marxist and hardly a dictator, genius. At least we all know now where you're coming from: One of those tea party idiots who give that whole movement its bad reputation. You must be so proud.

 

[AllieBaba]

Why does referring to Obama's middle name make people birthers?

 

[AllieBaba]

Maggie, name the name of one of the soldiers on here who are constantly threatening people.

Please.

 

[CMike]

The term liberal and conservative has changed dramatically during the years.

Basically today's liberal is for centralized government control, weak national security, etc.

A conservative is for loose centralized control and strong on national security.

Also liberals seem to hate America and support America's enemies.

Conservatives love America and what it means, and support America's allies.

Today's CON$ervative is for deliberately misrepresenting what libs, or anyone else who does not agree with them, stand for.

CON$ hate America so much they want to destroy this country from within by completely polarizing its people and pitting them against each other.

August 16, 2007
RUSH: See, just what I just said. An organization that is not conservative will, by definition, be liberal.

May 12, 2008
RUSH: by definition, if someone or some organization is not conservative, it's by definition going to be liberal, not moderate, not independent, it's going to be liberal

February 11, 2008
RUSH: See, I think liberalism needs to be beaten back; I think it needs to be defeated; I think politically it is the enemy; ... It has to be beaten, not joined, not be reached out to, not be gotten along with, not worked with. It needs to be beaten

Hey there is no reason to be divisive.


All the liberals have to do enact into law all the republican proposals.

No reason for these libs to be divisive.

BTW I completely agree with Rush. Liberals need to be defeated not compromised with. The more successful they are in getting their marxist agenda passed, the worse off for this country.

 

[CMike]

Such insulting bullshit. After the attacks of 911 and Bush's popularity skyrocketed into the 90 percentile, do you honestly believe a 45% increase from where he was before the attacks was attributable to just Republicans? Try avoiding such moronic statements, and your credibility would go much further.

Have you forgotten who Barak Hussein's mentor is?

This is the mentor of your head democrat marxist dictator

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=617eK2XIaLk]YouTube - Best of Jeremiah Wright's Sermons Pt. 1[/ame]

What does the Reverend Wright have to do with ME?! Does he speak for every non-Republican/conservative? Of course not, you stupid fool. And to jog your memory, you weren't talking about OBAMA, asshole, you made a direct accusation that anyone who doesn't share an extremist right-wing opinion such as yours (i.e., "liberals"--another collective misnomer) must be UNAmerican.

Your continued ignorant conclusions are laughable. Barack HUSSEIN Obama (a birther are ya?) is hardly a Marxist and hardly a dictator, genius. At least we all know now where you're coming from: One of those tea party idiots who give that whole movement its bad reputation. You must be so proud.

To answer your question, your leader is Rev. Wrong's apprentice. That's what he has to do with you.

I am making an accusation that those fools who follow Barak Hussein Obama is following someone who is utterly unamerican and a marxist.

 

[CMike]

you don't even know what the words conservative and liberal mean.

and your idea that only the rightwingnuts 'support america' is beyond retarded.

Well, I don't see "rightwingnuts" going to church where "God Damn America" is part of the Sermon, not do I recall them burning the US Flag to show their "support."

It's the blanket generalization that's offensive, not particular groups who hate America.

This person is your leader's mentor and who he called his closest advisor for over 20 years.