Are Wisconsin’s Public Employees Overpaid?

[MaggieMae]

No but there is no reason they cant contribute to there own retirement .

Which they are willing to do. The Governor never offered to negotiate. He offered them HIS terms only.

Yep the union has offered concessions and the governor just wants to kill the unions not negotiate.

I do not think the republicans are ensuring their future very well in WI.

No, they're not. I'm looking at this like some kind of payback. "WE'RE in charge now, and WE'LL do any goddamned thing we want, so there!" That kind of attitude has a way of coming back to bite you in the ass.

Democrats should know!!

 

[California Girl]

Good for Walker. He made an OFFER, the little greedy "public service employees" TURNED IT DOWN. NO MORE negotiating with the greedy bunch and their UNIONS.

now they can go and throw their little tantrums. I don't think the American people are in a mood for this, but hey, SHOW them what you are all made of.

His offer was NOTHING...it was in simple language...I am busting your union...

You cannot get blood out of a stone. There is nothing to offer. Hard times, recession, no money... Americans are suffering. Welcome to America, Union Workers.

 

[Bfgrn]

There's no such thing as an overpaid worker.

Well yeah, there are. There are tenured teachers (and other union workers) who often earn much more than they're worth if an honest comparison is made to the same type of work performed by someone at a lower pay scale. I've known secretaries with degrees in English who can't spell, but they earn big bucks just because of their degree, while someone right out of high school can out-perform administrative jobs so well that it shocks the rest of the staff, but she's paid entry level wages. There are hundreds of examples.

I think what Mr. Clean is referring to is it takes two to tango...when you negotiate terms BOTH sides sign the agreement.

 

[MaggieMae]

The problem with what the governor has done is that he is literally pulling the rug out from under people whose own personal budgets have depended on what they earn NOW. There's undoubtedly room for cuts, but not before honest negotiation takes place, just as it has in many other states. You don't just start DICTATING something that will drastically and immediately affect the income people have come to rely upon.

It's Walker's attitude that needs adjusting, not public payrolls.

What is amazing Maggie...the conservatives who claim they support the people over government absolutely LOVE these authoritarian dictators...I honestly think they not only lack empathy, they enjoy seeing people being punished.

Extending that thought to what happened in the House yesterday concerning Planned Parenthood, it's one thing to stand there and act all righteous about abortion, but did any of them stop to wonder how many MORE children would be born who are either unwanted or unaffordable? How many more single parents do the Republicans think might need to join the welfare rolls if they have mouths to feed that weren't planned for? Logic and common sense have NEVER been a part of the conservative brain.

 

[California Girl]

Which they are willing to do. The Governor never offered to negotiate. He offered them HIS terms only.

Yep the union has offered concessions and the governor just wants to kill the unions not negotiate.

I do not think the republicans are ensuring their future very well in WI.

No, they're not. I'm looking at this like some kind of payback. "WE'RE in charge now, and WE'LL do any goddamned thing we want, so there!" That kind of attitude has a way of coming back to bite you in the ass.

Yea, like it did for the Dems in '10.

The reality is that hard decisions, unpopular decisions, have to be made - because they are in the best interests of the state and the country.

Europe is finding this out the hard way. So is America. It's life. We had the good times, and we screwed up.... so now we have the hard times.

 

[MaggieMae]

Which they are willing to do. The Governor never offered to negotiate. He offered them HIS terms only.

Yep the union has offered concessions and the governor just wants to kill the unions not negotiate.

I do not think the republicans are ensuring their future very well in WI.

What is there to 'negotiate'? They are having to contribute to their own retirement and healthcare.... so what? The private sector does that. Why should they get something in return for something they should have to do? The public sector is not special. They, like every other American, has to learn to live within the country's means. That is not authoritarian, it is common sense.

Again, to me, that's not the point. How would you like it if your boss suddenly barged into your office and just announced that your pay would be cut in half and you would have no more benefits? Wouldn't you be a tad upset?

 

[MaggieMae]

No but there is no reason they cant contribute to there own retirement .

Umm they do. I think only the military does not contribute to their own retirement.

Everyone who works 'contributes' to their retirement, if they get a retirement benefit. This is just semantics and shuffling numbers around.

They contribute via the WORK they do. The bottom line of any employer/employee relationship is how much total compensation you receive for the work you do, NOT how its packaged.

I'm wondering now what happens if some of those union members decide to retire before any new "law" takes place? They have vested interests in their retirement plans, and that alone could wipe out (or even greatly increase) any deficit-saving measure. If they are refused payment, lawsuits will occur, adding to the state's woes. Nope. Walker has not through this through, I'll bet.

 

[California Girl]

Yep the union has offered concessions and the governor just wants to kill the unions not negotiate.

I do not think the republicans are ensuring their future very well in WI.

What is there to 'negotiate'? They are having to contribute to their own retirement and healthcare.... so what? The private sector does that. Why should they get something in return for something they should have to do? The public sector is not special. They, like every other American, has to learn to live within the country's means. That is not authoritarian, it is common sense.

Again, to me, that's not the point. How would you like it if your boss suddenly barged into your office and just announced that your pay would be cut in half and you would have no more benefits? Wouldn't you be a tad upset?

That's what happens in business. Sure, I'd be pissed... but I have a choice. Accept it or leave. I can understand that they're angry.... but so are millions of private sector workers who didn't just get their pay cut or their benefits taken away.... they lost their jobs.

It's one reason why I choose to be self employed. I stand or fail on my own two feet.

 

[WillowTree]

Here's your choices..


Contribute some to your retirement and health care or get your sorry ass laid off. Which would you choose?

 

[MaggieMae]

Good for Walker. He made an OFFER, the little greedy "public service employees" TURNED IT DOWN. NO MORE negotiating with the greedy bunch and their UNIONS.

now they can go and throw their little tantrums. I don't think the American people are in a mood for this, but hey, SHOW them what you are all made of.

His offer was NOTHING...it was in simple language...I am busting your union...

You cannot get blood out of a stone. There is nothing to offer. Hard times, recession, no money... Americans are suffering. Welcome to America, Union Workers.

I still say it's the way Walker went about this. He claims he needs to do something before June. Well why not just an across-the-board freeze on OTHER spending as well, except for emergency services, until June? But I don't see him asking for sacrifices anywhere else. I could be wrong on that, and I'll have to listen to more back and forth as the day progresses.

 

[Bfgrn]

Good for Walker. He made an OFFER, the little greedy "public service employees" TURNED IT DOWN. NO MORE negotiating with the greedy bunch and their UNIONS.

now they can go and throw their little tantrums. I don't think the American people are in a mood for this, but hey, SHOW them what you are all made of.

His offer was NOTHING...it was in simple language...I am busting your union...

You cannot get blood out of a stone. There is nothing to offer. Hard times, recession, no money... Americans are suffering. Welcome to America, Union Workers.

That is not true...Walker was left with a surplus.

Walker gins up ‘crisis’ to reward cronies

Wisconsin needs to be fiscally responsible.

There is no question that these are tough times, and they may require tough choices.

But Gov. Scott Walker is not making tough choices. He is making political choices, and they are designed not to balance budgets but to improve his political position and that of his party.

It is for this reason that the governor claims Wisconsin is in such deep financial trouble that Wisconsinites should view this as a crisis moment.

In fact, like just about every other state in the country, Wisconsin is managing in a weak economy. The difference is that Wisconsin is managing better -- or at least it had been managing better until Walker took over. Despite shortfalls in revenue following the economic downturn that hit its peak with the Bush-era stock market collapse, the state has balanced budgets, maintained basic services and high-quality schools, and kept employment and business development steadier than the rest of the country. It has managed so well, in fact, that the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau recently released a memo detailing how the state will end the 2009-2011 budget biennium with a budget surplus.

In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state’s budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.

To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.

More

 

[MaggieMae]

Yep the union has offered concessions and the governor just wants to kill the unions not negotiate.

I do not think the republicans are ensuring their future very well in WI.

No, they're not. I'm looking at this like some kind of payback. "WE'RE in charge now, and WE'LL do any goddamned thing we want, so there!" That kind of attitude has a way of coming back to bite you in the ass.

Yea, like it did for the Dems in '10.

The reality is that hard decisions, unpopular decisions, have to be made - because they are in the best interests of the state and the country.

Europe is finding this out the hard way. So is America. It's life. We had the good times, and we screwed up.... so now we have the hard times.

The problem in the UK was their lack of revenue (taxes) due to the recession, and they could no longer support their social programs that the public generally liked and didn't care about paying high taxes to cover them.

 

[Stephanie]

Yep the union has offered concessions and the governor just wants to kill the unions not negotiate.

I do not think the republicans are ensuring their future very well in WI.

What is there to 'negotiate'? They are having to contribute to their own retirement and healthcare.... so what? The private sector does that. Why should they get something in return for something they should have to do? The public sector is not special. They, like every other American, has to learn to live within the country's means. That is not authoritarian, it is common sense.

Again, to me, that's not the point. How would you like it if your boss suddenly barged into your office and just announced that your pay would be cut in half and you would have no more benefits? Wouldn't you be a tad upset?

well, they have the OPTION to quit and go FIND OTHER WORK. That's probably what the REST of us would do.

 

[Stephanie]

LOL, here comes the ATTACKS against Walker.

Walker gins up ‘crisis’ to reward cronies

now who didn't SEE THIS COMING.

 

[MaggieMae]

What is there to 'negotiate'? They are having to contribute to their own retirement and healthcare.... so what? The private sector does that. Why should they get something in return for something they should have to do? The public sector is not special. They, like every other American, has to learn to live within the country's means. That is not authoritarian, it is common sense.

Again, to me, that's not the point. How would you like it if your boss suddenly barged into your office and just announced that your pay would be cut in half and you would have no more benefits? Wouldn't you be a tad upset?

That's what happens in business. Sure, I'd be pissed... but I have a choice. Accept it or leave. I can understand that they're angry.... but so are millions of private sector workers who didn't just get their pay cut or their benefits taken away.... they lost their jobs.

It's one reason why I choose to be self employed. I stand or fail on my own two feet.

I think the normal reaction would be that the person would have liked some advance warning. I recall one bad year in the 70's at the law firm where I worked and it was up to me to put out the word that because our income hadn't generated enough that year that annual bonuses would be scaled back considerably, and in some cases not given out at all. The screaming and yelling was predictable, but it toned down once reality set in. We also had to move the annual Christmas party from the Beverly Hills Hotel to using banquet space at a country club (gratis by one of the members), and the displeasure over that was even louder, if you can believe it. BUT, we didn't lay off any of the staff and the partners also reduced their draw to pay their salaries. Fairness all 'round.

 

[kiwiman127]

Good for Walker. He made an OFFER, the little greedy "public service employees" TURNED IT DOWN. NO MORE negotiating with the greedy bunch and their UNIONS.

now they can go and throw their little tantrums. I don't think the American people are in a mood for this, but hey, SHOW them what you are all made of.

His offer was NOTHING...it was in simple language...I am busting your union...

You cannot get blood out of a stone. There is nothing to offer. Hard times, recession, no money... Americans are suffering. Welcome to America, Union Workers.

Shouldn't all public employee unions be included in Walker's legislation, instead of just the unions who didn't support Walker's run for the governorship? The police, firemen and state trooper unions are exempt from the legislation and are the only public employee unions to support Walker's run for gov.

 

[GWV5903]

Are Public Employees Overpaid?

Governor Walker has said that the labor changes are necessary because Wisconsin’s local and state employees haven’t made the same sacrifices during the Great Recession as private sector workers.

Walker glossed over the fact that state employees had eight unpaid furlough days in 2009 and 2010, which saved the state $121 million, and their wages have been flat for years.

He also forgot to mention that when he was Milwaukee County executive, members of the largest county employee union took 26 unpaid furlough days in 2010, or one unpaid day off for every two-week pay period—a 10% pay cut. They’ll have 26 unpaid days off this year, too, as a result of Walker’s final county budget. (The employees at the Shepherd Express, a private sector company, did not have any wage decreases or forced furlough days.)

So is Walker correct when he says that public employees are making more than their counterparts in the private sector?

The short answer is no, according to a new study by the national nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute (EPI), which found that Wisconsin’s state and local employees earn 4.8% less per hour in total compensation than their peers in the private sector. That number jumps to 25% for college-educated employees. EPI found that, on average, Wisconsin’s public employees with a bachelor’s degree earn $61,668 in total compensation; their peers working for private employers earn $82,134 in wages and benefits.

And although Gov. Scott Walker is earning $144,423 as a public sector employee with “some college” education, his pay package is not typical. Public sector employees who attended college but did not earn a diploma earn an average $46,707 in wages and benefits, while those in the private sector earn 7% more, or $50,324, EPI found.


Extra Cost of Cutting Wages: Killing Jobs

Although Walker took office promising to focus on job creation like a laser beam, he has not explained how many jobs this budget bill would create.

In fact, a new study by the Institute for Wisconsin’s Future (IWF) found that cutting public sector employees’ pay to the degree demanded by Walker would be a disaster for the state’s economy. In fact, about $1 billion of public employee wages would be lost each year:

* State workers would lose $429 million of disposable income

* Local employees would lose $335 million of disposable income

* School district employees would lose $230 million of disposable income


“Public sector workers are moderate-income people who spend the vast majority of their income on consumer goods—unlike rich households who save the bulk of their wealth,” wrote Jack Norman, the study’s author.

Since that $1 billion would not be spent—and recirculated—in businesses throughout Wisconsin, the study projected that 9,900 private sector jobs would be lost.

“State leaders cannot make up for the loss in consumer purchasing power by an equivalent amount of tax cuts,” Norman wrote. “That would worsen the deficit and cancel out any savings created by cuts to public sector compensation.”

And what about the ripple effect on local governments? IWF’s Norman calculated that $46 million of property tax revenue would be lost because of the wage cutbacks and depressed economic activity. Dane County would be hit the hardest and lose $14 million in property taxes; Milwaukee County would lose $6 million in property taxes.

Walker’s Renewed War on Workers

"Teachers are givers in a world dominated by takers, and they're also sharers. This collaborative instinct makes our profession unlike any other."
Barbara Keshishian

I am all for supporting teachers, but that is not what this is about.....

I found this piece via google.....

At least one lawmaker questioned why the union is fighting for Viagra while teachers are losing their jobs. A consultant for the school board has estimated that reinstating the drug benefit would cost $786,000 per year – the cost to keep perhaps a dozen first-year teachers employed.

State Rep. Jason Fields argues that the money could be better spent any number of ways – including saving jobs.

"You've got to be kidding me," said Fields, a Milwaukee Democrat. "The fact that is the point of contention is kind of frightening. What are our priorities? I'm all for love and peace. But almost 1 million dollars? And you go to court over this issue?"

Story continues below

Remember the WI teachers demanded Viagra be covered by their health plans. - Smart Girl Politics

Sue the district for Viagra? Only a scumbag attorney and crooked union bosses could convince anyone to do this, they are going to go down in flames....

 

[asterism]

Good for Walker. He made an OFFER, the little greedy "public service employees" TURNED IT DOWN. NO MORE negotiating with the greedy bunch and their UNIONS.

now they can go and throw their little tantrums. I don't think the American people are in a mood for this, but hey, SHOW them what you are all made of.

His offer was NOTHING...it was in simple language...I am busting your union...

Show some proof of that. Show where he has said that the unions will go away.

 

[asterism]

His offer was NOTHING...it was in simple language...I am busting your union...

You cannot get blood out of a stone. There is nothing to offer. Hard times, recession, no money... Americans are suffering. Welcome to America, Union Workers.

I still say it's the way Walker went about this. He claims he needs to do something before June. Well why not just an across-the-board freeze on OTHER spending as well, except for emergency services, until June? But I don't see him asking for sacrifices anywhere else. I could be wrong on that, and I'll have to listen to more back and forth as the day progresses.

The taxpayers have already sacrificed. Why not the government employees? I see a good reason to phase in reforms. Currently the priorities have been set to cause no immediate harm to first responders while sustaining other parts of government.

 

[asterism]

LOL, here comes the ATTACKS against Walker.

Walker gins up ‘crisis’ to reward cronies

now who didn't SEE THIS COMING.

Next up, actual violence. When that happens that Mubarak comparison will be realized - astroturfed activists are the same as the Muslim Brotherhood. Except Walker isn't a dictator, but these union drones might just be on the level of your average Eqyptian thug.

I hope they find union jobs in the Middle East.