Are We Alone in the Universe?

[Madeline]

I have no math or science skills to stand on, Robert, but if I were betting, I'd put $5 on "we are alone". It is certainly possible we are not, but what are the odds that if things are as you describe (no doubt you're correct), the Earth is the most advanced planet and the occupants of none of the others have bothered to reach out and touch us?

I view ET the same way I do ghosts: could be, but doesn't seem terribly likely.

BTW, is there or isn't there evidence of life on Mars in the distant past?

Umm Maddie why would they want to reach out and touch us?
I mean really if they are advanced enough to travel hundreds of light years why fool with us?

Would most of us like to hang out with abos in Austrailia? Or people living in huts and using spears in mid Africa?
Heck most of us just avoid the trailer trash and ghettos.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

 

[Mad Scientist]

Then why have we not been contacted?

Good question. If Alien Life forms are so much more advanced than us as some like to think, then they should have already invented new forms of travel, new energy sources and communication forms that we haven't even thought of yet right?

They would have a massively greater understanding of the Universe and It's physical laws correct? They would have found other dimensions if they exist right?

But then again, they may think there is no real need for them to contact us at all.

 

[westwall]

Before I start this, this is my personal only opinion of studying this topic for over 35 years now. And though, off record, over 89% of NASA people and affiliated enterprises agree also with what follows, this is strictly my own take and stand at this time on this topic.

First, you must get very familiar with this link and data below, concerning the Drake Equation. It is the most compelling math tool and anyone can use it and it is fabulous for this subject. Here it is:

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.htm

Ok, for me and over this 36 years interfacing with NASA and assorted agencies, I have come to the conclusion then, and now, that our universe, or closer in, our Galaxy, is host to lifeforms on a level of Star Trek-The Next Generation. I think it is a swarm of life, intelligent and everything in between.

ST-TNG, the federation, is 8000 Light Years (LYs) in diameter, and look at the life that is entailed in that fictional quadrant of our galaxy. I truly feel that whole world of grand fiction will play out in the near future to not only be true, but more so, conservative by numbers.

Here's why:

1. Our sun is a class C type star and is found to be the most common star type in the cosmos.

2. These star types tend to be the most stable and longest lived.

3. They last upwards of 6 billion years.

4. They have multiple planets, with at least one in the "Goldilocks Zone", where liquid water is present on the surface, thus the right distance from the home star.

5. And on carbon based planets, this is the condition for life, as we know it.

Further, like the movie, "Start Trek: First Contact", we are going to leave our home place. We will do so when we have developed something that is SoL+ or, a WARP drive if you will. From that, we are free.

And if we are free to explore out beyond our local solar neighborhood, we would obviously be able to reach out to other Class C worlds, for no other reason than to see if we are right.

And, aside from the darker psychopaths that post on all these myriad of boards to the contrary, NASA and all other space agencies around the planet is pushing the technology to "see" out there what is there. And it reasons well, if we are not alone, others out there are doing the same, looking back.

If we don't "see" each other at some point, or we get out there and then run into someone else, the treasure chest is open.

So, categorically, WE ARE NOT ALONE!!

In the not so near future, in our lifetimes even, we are going to get a message, anything, that will simply be "Hello. Are you there?"

Behold.

Comments encouraged greatly.

Robert

I read "Habitable Planets for Man" decades ago and could find nothing wrong with the logic then or now. The sheer number of planetary bodies that MUST exist simply precludes the belief that we are alone in the universe. That said, I think it will be a very long time until we get a greeting from anyone.

Hopefully we'll get a smart pres in place who will fund space exploration again and we can get a FTL drive going so we can explore the universe in a proper way and more importantly get off this single rock where we are oh so vulnerable to outside influences.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

So, that March 15th drop dead date has been extended?

As always.

Robert

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I have another question, Robert. Yanno that tv show "Life After People"? Fascinating stuff....but if ever such a thing happened, wouldn't people just evolve all over again?

Yes, in high probability, since the DNA strand would still be here.

Good question.

Robert

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Then why have we not been contacted?

Good question. If Alien Life forms are so much more advanced than us as some like to think, then they should have already invented new forms of travel, new energy sources and communication forms that we haven't even thought of yet right?

They would have a massively greater understanding of the Universe and It's physical laws correct? They would have found other dimensions if they exist right?

But then again, they may think there is no real need for them to contact us at all.

I address this elsewhere in this thread, but you added a new bent to it.

Dimensions.

For all purposes, we are marooned here in our home place, even if we could do WARP 10. The distances are just to unfathomable. But one of the vectors of Astrophysics is looking at the possibility of simply controlling time itself or dimensional traveling, whereby distance, thus time, is not a factor any longer.

Besides that, again, we are marooned sadly. For example, ar WARP 9.5 it would still take us 11 years to cross the Milky Way Galaxy from one side to the other, at only 100,000 LY diameter. ST universe is only 8,000 LY in diameter in exploration at that point in the show.
If visitors had mastered those things, since we would be no threat at all at that level of technology, they would come to us out of inquiry and archaeology and anthropology if nothing else. Like the movie presents in the Nicolas Cage piece, "Knowing", they would simply be here to rescue to assure the species.

Good post.

Robert

 

[DiveCon]

Then why have we not been contacted?

Good question. If Alien Life forms are so much more advanced than us as some like to think, then they should have already invented new forms of travel, new energy sources and communication forms that we haven't even thought of yet right?

They would have a massively greater understanding of the Universe and It's physical laws correct? They would have found other dimensions if they exist right?

But then again, they may think there is no real need for them to contact us at all.

I address this elsewhere in this thread, but you added a new bent to it.

Dimensions.

For all purposes, we are marooned here in our home place, even if we could do WARP 10. The distances are just to unfathomable. But one of the vectors of Astrophysics is looking at the possibility of simply controlling time itself or dimensional traveling, whereby distance, thus time, is not a factor any longer.

Besides that, again, we are marooned sadly. For example, ar WARP 9.5 it would still take us 11 years to cross the Milky Way Galaxy from one side to the other, at only 100,000 LY diameter. ST universe is only 8,000 LY in diameter in exploration at that point in the show.
If visitors had mastered those things, since we would be no threat at all at that level of technology, they would come to us out of inquiry and archaeology and anthropology if nothing else. Like the movie presents in the Nicolas Cage piece, "Knowing", they would simply be here to rescue to assure the species.

Good post.

Robert

only 8,00 LY?
all 4 quadrants?
Alpha, Delta, Gamma, and i forget the other one(i think it was only in 1 show)

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Before I start this, this is my personal only opinion of studying this topic for over 35 years now. And though, off record, over 89% of NASA people and affiliated enterprises agree also with what follows, this is strictly my own take and stand at this time on this topic.

First, you must get very familiar with this link and data below, concerning the Drake Equation. It is the most compelling math tool and anyone can use it and it is fabulous for this subject. Here it is:

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.htm

Ok, for me and over this 36 years interfacing with NASA and assorted agencies, I have come to the conclusion then, and now, that our universe, or closer in, our Galaxy, is host to lifeforms on a level of Star Trek-The Next Generation. I think it is a swarm of life, intelligent and everything in between.

ST-TNG, the federation, is 8000 Light Years (LYs) in diameter, and look at the life that is entailed in that fictional quadrant of our galaxy. I truly feel that whole world of grand fiction will play out in the near future to not only be true, but more so, conservative by numbers.

Here's why:

1. Our sun is a class C type star and is found to be the most common star type in the cosmos.

2. These star types tend to be the most stable and longest lived.

3. They last upwards of 6 billion years.

4. They have multiple planets, with at least one in the "Goldilocks Zone", where liquid water is present on the surface, thus the right distance from the home star.

5. And on carbon based planets, this is the condition for life, as we know it.

Further, like the movie, "Start Trek: First Contact", we are going to leave our home place. We will do so when we have developed something that is SoL+ or, a WARP drive if you will. From that, we are free.

And if we are free to explore out beyond our local solar neighborhood, we would obviously be able to reach out to other Class C worlds, for no other reason than to see if we are right.

And, aside from the darker psychopaths that post on all these myriad of boards to the contrary, NASA and all other space agencies around the planet is pushing the technology to "see" out there what is there. And it reasons well, if we are not alone, others out there are doing the same, looking back.

If we don't "see" each other at some point, or we get out there and then run into someone else, the treasure chest is open.

So, categorically, WE ARE NOT ALONE!!

In the not so near future, in our lifetimes even, we are going to get a message, anything, that will simply be "Hello. Are you there?"

Behold.

Comments encouraged greatly.

Robert

I read "Habitable Planets for Man" decades ago and could find nothing wrong with the logic then or now. The sheer number of planetary bodies that MUST exist simply precludes the belief that we are alone in the universe. That said, I think it will be a very long time until we get a greeting from anyone.

Hopefully we'll get a smart pres in place who will fund space exploration again and we can get a FTL drive going so we can explore the universe in a proper way and more importantly get off this single rock where we are oh so vulnerable to outside influences.

Correct and my sentiments exactly. With FTL drive or WARP, if you will or some form of it, we are free of our home place. Now, it is a terrible tease; we can "see", but we can't "go". I hate it, personally.

All we need is a forward thinker president who knows the prospect what a FTL drive would hold for the rest of us. And we Americans are so wonderfully crazy we could do it in 10 years. I think that is why we all love "Star Trek, First Contact" so much.......the promise of what lies across that next horizon.......or what is heaven for....

Great post.

Robert

 

[Robert_Stephens]

only 8,00 LY?
all 4 quadrants?
Alpha, Delta, Gamma, and i forget the other one(i think it was only in 1 show)

Yes. In the ST movie, "ST: First Contact", when Picard is leading the black woman around the Enterprise, who was from the 21st century, he is explaining how far in the 24th century mankind has expanded out and she ask, "then, how big is this Federation then?". He answers: "At current, the Federation spans 8000 light years, with 80 different cultures and more we have not found yet." They are trying to defeat the Borg.

In the ST world, with WARP 9.5 available, that is reasonable.

It also tells us how WARP made it all possible.

Robert

 

[American Horse]

Priceless! Everything else, MasterCard!

Robert

Robert I'll agree with you that life in this galaxy is abundant. But intelligent life is yet another thing. It takes much longer for life to evolve than all the lower life. And life may get started only to be destroyed by local events before intelligent life has a chance to evolve, or intelligent life is able to mature into a civilization.

The spinning of our earth on its axis is stabilized by our very large moon; a moon that is of a size to create such stability is indeed rare. Our own resulted from a collision with a Mars sized planet. If our earth’s spinning was not regulated, then its axial tilt could change enough over time to make climate inhospitable to higher forms of living creatures.

How much of the Earth's protective magnetic field is a result of that same large moon, and that magnetic field limits/nullifies a number of life withering effects like solar radiation, x-rays, cosmic rays, and others inhospitable to life being able to develop to the level of intelligence and civilization?

And how about the plate tectonics comes from tidal effect of the same moon that makes such great surface relief common, without which so much of the surface would be below sea level?

How about the relative sparseness of our own stellar neighborhood; doesn’t that factor make persistent bombardment from space by objects capable of destroying life in its nascent form long before intelligence evolves much less a factor than in more dense regions?

And how about double stars (or triple stars), which are by far the most common situation; how does that impinge on the development of life and stable environments; vis-à-vis small planets with large moons or earth sized planets with stable orbits?

And how about the relative generation of stars from earlier supernova vis-à-vis, the metallicity of stars and any abundance of usefull raw materials condensing out; aren't heavy metals needed for the development of life that we would recognize as being intelligent to serve our scenario?

And you can discount all stars in globular clusters, can you not, from the base we calculate the number of G-type stars like our sun?

If not all, then at least some, (and also some others that I did not mention) of these conditions will impinge on the development of intelligence capable of developing civilizations.

We live in a relative safe region of the galaxy way out here (for the time being) on the Orion Arm, and are likely to remain about the same distance from the central regions. But closer in where the great majority of the populations of stars are, conditions may be far less hospitable for life to have sufficient time to develop... not only intelligence but a civilization needed to give us a Star Trek-like galaxy which will lead to contact.

Although I wish it were not the case, because of these known’s, and many unknowns, I suspect that civilizations capable of space travel are very rare compared to the number of stars at first blink which seem just right for basic life to just get started. To me, this means, some relatively low number of civilizations may have developed and their coming across each other, or conveniently communicating with each other will be a while in happening.

 

[westwall]

Before I start this, this is my personal only opinion of studying this topic for over 35 years now. And though, off record, over 89% of NASA people and affiliated enterprises agree also with what follows, this is strictly my own take and stand at this time on this topic.

First, you must get very familiar with this link and data below, concerning the Drake Equation. It is the most compelling math tool and anyone can use it and it is fabulous for this subject. Here it is:

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.htm

Ok, for me and over this 36 years interfacing with NASA and assorted agencies, I have come to the conclusion then, and now, that our universe, or closer in, our Galaxy, is host to lifeforms on a level of Star Trek-The Next Generation. I think it is a swarm of life, intelligent and everything in between.

ST-TNG, the federation, is 8000 Light Years (LYs) in diameter, and look at the life that is entailed in that fictional quadrant of our galaxy. I truly feel that whole world of grand fiction will play out in the near future to not only be true, but more so, conservative by numbers.

Here's why:

1. Our sun is a class C type star and is found to be the most common star type in the cosmos.

2. These star types tend to be the most stable and longest lived.

3. They last upwards of 6 billion years.

4. They have multiple planets, with at least one in the "Goldilocks Zone", where liquid water is present on the surface, thus the right distance from the home star.

5. And on carbon based planets, this is the condition for life, as we know it.

Further, like the movie, "Start Trek: First Contact", we are going to leave our home place. We will do so when we have developed something that is SoL+ or, a WARP drive if you will. From that, we are free.

And if we are free to explore out beyond our local solar neighborhood, we would obviously be able to reach out to other Class C worlds, for no other reason than to see if we are right.

And, aside from the darker psychopaths that post on all these myriad of boards to the contrary, NASA and all other space agencies around the planet is pushing the technology to "see" out there what is there. And it reasons well, if we are not alone, others out there are doing the same, looking back.

If we don't "see" each other at some point, or we get out there and then run into someone else, the treasure chest is open.

So, categorically, WE ARE NOT ALONE!!

In the not so near future, in our lifetimes even, we are going to get a message, anything, that will simply be "Hello. Are you there?"

Behold.

Comments encouraged greatly.

Robert

I read "Habitable Planets for Man" decades ago and could find nothing wrong with the logic then or now. The sheer number of planetary bodies that MUST exist simply precludes the belief that we are alone in the universe. That said, I think it will be a very long time until we get a greeting from anyone.

Hopefully we'll get a smart pres in place who will fund space exploration again and we can get a FTL drive going so we can explore the universe in a proper way and more importantly get off this single rock where we are oh so vulnerable to outside influences.

Correct and my sentiments exactly. With FTL drive or WARP, if you will or some form of it, we are free of our home place. Now, it is a terrible tease; we can "see", but we can't "go". I hate it, personally.

All we need is a forward thinker president who knows the prospect what a FTL drive would hold for the rest of us. And we Americans are so wonderfully crazy we could do it in 10 years. I think that is why we all love "Star Trek, First Contact" so much.......the promise of what lies across that next horizon.......or what is heaven for....

Great post.

Robert

The US was founded by the pioneer spirit by men such as Jim Bridger and Kit Carson, the "west" as it was called wasn't truly a geographic location, it was a ideal, a thought that there was something better on the other side of the river or the mountain range. The mountain range is now space/time. The modern day astronauts embody that same spirit and desire to "see what's out there" and hopefully we'll get a visionary who will let us go.

 

[westwall]

Robert I'll agree with you that life in this galaxy is abundant. But intelligent life is yet another thing. It takes much longer for life to evolve than all the lower life. And life may get started only to be destroyed by local events before intelligent life has a chance to evolve, or intelligent life is able to mature into a civilization.

The spinning of our earth on its axis is stabilized by our very large moon; a moon that is of a size to create such stability is indeed rare. Our own resulted from a collision with a Mars sized planet. If our earth’s spinning was not regulated, then its axial tilt could change enough over time to make climate inhospitable to higher forms of living creatures.

How much of the Earth's protective magnetic field is a result of that same large moon, and that magnetic field limits/nullifies a number of life withering effects like solar radiation, x-rays, cosmic rays, and others inhospitable to life being able to develop to the level of intelligence and civilization?

And how about the plate tectonics comes from tidal effect of the same moon that makes such great surface relief common, without which so much of the surface would be below sea level?

How about the relative sparseness of our own stellar neighborhood; doesn’t that factor make persistent bombardment from space by objects capable of destroying life in its nascent form long before intelligence evolves much less a factor than in more dense regions?

And how about double stars (or triple stars), which are by far the most common situation; how does that impinge on the development of life and stable environments; vis-à-vis small planets with large moons or earth sized planets with stable orbits?

And how about the relative generation of stars from earlier supernova vis-à-vis, the metallicity of stars and any abundance of usefull raw materials condensing out; aren't heavy metals needed for the development of life that we would recognize as being intelligent to serve our scenario?

And you can discount all stars in globular clusters, can you not, from the base we calculate the number of G-type stars like our sun?

If not all, then at least some, (and also some others that I did not mention) of these conditions will impinge on the development of intelligence capable of developing civilizations.

We live in a relative safe region of the galaxy way out here (for the time being) on the Orion Arm, and are likely to remain about the same distance from the central regions. But closer in where the great majority of the populations of stars are, conditions may be far less hospitable for life to have sufficient time to develop... not only intelligence but a civilization needed to give us a Star Trek-like galaxy which will lead to contact.

Although I wish it were not the case, because of these known’s, and many unknowns, I suspect that civilizations capable of space travel are very rare compared to the number of stars at first blink which seem just right for basic life to just get started. To me, this means, some relatively low number of civilizations may have developed and their coming across each other, or conveniently communicating with each other will be a while in happening.

This is only true for life like we are. There are many possible forms of life that don't use carbon as their basis. In those instances Jupiter would be a fine place for life to evolve. We are but one possible form of life, there are countless others.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Robert I'll agree with you that life in this galaxy is abundant. But intelligent life is yet another thing. It takes much longer for life to evolve than all the lower life. And life may get started only to be destroyed by local events before intelligent life has a chance to evolve, or intelligent life is able to mature into a civilization.

The spinning of our earth on its axis is stabilized by our very large moon; a moon that is of a size to create such stability is indeed rare. Our own resulted from a collision with a Mars sized planet. If our earth’s spinning was not regulated, then its axial tilt could change enough over time to make climate inhospitable to higher forms of living creatures.

How much of the Earth's protective magnetic field is a result of that same large moon, and that magnetic field limits/nullifies a number of life withering effects like solar radiation, x-rays, cosmic rays, and others inhospitable to life being able to develop to the level of intelligence and civilization?

And how about the plate tectonics comes from tidal effect of the same moon that makes such great surface relief common, without which so much of the surface would be below sea level?

How about the relative sparseness of our own stellar neighborhood; doesn’t that factor make persistent bombardment from space by objects capable of destroying life in its nascent form long before intelligence evolves much less a factor than in more dense regions?

And how about double stars (or triple stars), which are by far the most common situation; how does that impinge on the development of life and stable environments; vis-à-vis small planets with large moons or earth sized planets with stable orbits?

And how about the relative generation of stars from earlier supernova vis-à-vis, the metallicity of stars and any abundance of usefull raw materials condensing out; aren't heavy metals needed for the development of life that we would recognize as being intelligent to serve our scenario?

And you can discount all stars in globular clusters, can you not, from the base we calculate the number of G-type stars like our sun?

If not all, then at least some, (and also some others that I did not mention) of these conditions will impinge on the development of intelligence capable of developing civilizations.

We live in a relative safe region of the galaxy way out here (for the time being) on the Orion Arm, and are likely to remain about the same distance from the central regions. But closer in where the great majority of the populations of stars are, conditions may be far less hospitable for life to have sufficient time to develop... not only intelligence but a civilization needed to give us a Star Trek-like galaxy which will lead to contact.

Although I wish it were not the case, because of these known’s, and many unknowns, I suspect that civilizations capable of space travel are very rare compared to the number of stars at first blink which seem just right for basic life to just get started. To me, this means, some relatively low number of civilizations may have developed and their coming across each other, or conveniently communicating with each other will be a while in happening.

Actually, all your points are valid in the what if category. This is sound. It is also factored in when using the Drake Formula. Frank Drake was right on and in his simple formula (I use it constantly), it does define easily the what ifs and what may be. Suffice to say, then, it is being quickly learned that Class G worlds are common and the Goldilocks Zone is a common denominator. This then infers that Drake is probably correct, and there are about 10,000 inhabitant systems like Earth and our solar system in the Milky Way Galaxy, our home.

Where they are and what they are is the question, of course.

Too, finally, with your suppositions, out of 120,000,000,000≥ stars in our galaxy, and only 10,000 with developed life, that is a tiny tiny percentage. or, √/.00012%. Not much.....but its more than one.....

Good input. Thank you.

Robert

 

[HUGGY]

Before I start this, this is my personal only opinion of studying this topic for over 35 years now. And though, off record, over 89% of NASA people and affiliated enterprises agree also with what follows, this is strictly my own take and stand at this time on this topic.

First, you must get very familiar with this link and data below, concerning the Drake Equation. It is the most compelling math tool and anyone can use it and it is fabulous for this subject. Here it is:

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.htm

Ok, for me and over this 36 years interfacing with NASA and assorted agencies, I have come to the conclusion then, and now, that our universe, or closer in, our Galaxy, is host to lifeforms on a level of Star Trek-The Next Generation. I think it is a swarm of life, intelligent and everything in between.

ST-TNG, the federation, is 8000 Light Years (LYs) in diameter, and look at the life that is entailed in that fictional quadrant of our galaxy. I truly feel that whole world of grand fiction will play out in the near future to not only be true, but more so, conservative by numbers.

Here's why:

1. Our sun is a class C type star and is found to be the most common star type in the cosmos.

2. These star types tend to be the most stable and longest lived.

3. They last upwards of 6 billion years.

4. They have multiple planets, with at least one in the "Goldilocks Zone", where liquid water is present on the surface, thus the right distance from the home star.

5. And on carbon based planets, this is the condition for life, as we know it.

Further, like the movie, "Start Trek: First Contact", we are going to leave our home place. We will do so when we have developed something that is SoL+ or, a WARP drive if you will. From that, we are free.

And if we are free to explore out beyond our local solar neighborhood, we would obviously be able to reach out to other Class C worlds, for no other reason than to see if we are right.

And, aside from the darker psychopaths that post on all these myriad of boards to the contrary, NASA and all other space agencies around the planet is pushing the technology to "see" out there what is there. And it reasons well, if we are not alone, others out there are doing the same, looking back.

If we don't "see" each other at some point, or we get out there and then run into someone else, the treasure chest is open.

So, categorically, WE ARE NOT ALONE!!

In the not so near future, in our lifetimes even, we are going to get a message, anything, that will simply be "Hello. Are you there?"

Behold.

Comments encouraged greatly.

Robert

I have no doubt that life exists on other worlds. What I dispute is the naive search for contact. There is no life form here on earth that is not predatory in some manner. That leads me to the conclusion that any life found would also be predatory. Sending our television and radio broadcasts out into space is foolish IMO. That space probe with all the 411 about earth and humans was like sending out a menu. IMO it will end up being our undoing.

We as humans have always thought of ourselves as special and worse than that protected by some invisible being. I just hope that whatever is out there doesn't find us tasty.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I read "Habitable Planets for Man" decades ago and could find nothing wrong with the logic then or now. The sheer number of planetary bodies that MUST exist simply precludes the belief that we are alone in the universe. That said, I think it will be a very long time until we get a greeting from anyone.

Hopefully we'll get a smart pres in place who will fund space exploration again and we can get a FTL drive going so we can explore the universe in a proper way and more importantly get off this single rock where we are oh so vulnerable to outside influences.

Correct and my sentiments exactly. With FTL drive or WARP, if you will or some form of it, we are free of our home place. Now, it is a terrible tease; we can "see", but we can't "go". I hate it, personally.

All we need is a forward thinker president who knows the prospect what a FTL drive would hold for the rest of us. And we Americans are so wonderfully crazy we could do it in 10 years. I think that is why we all love "Star Trek, First Contact" so much.......the promise of what lies across that next horizon.......or what is heaven for....

Great post.

Robert

The US was founded by the pioneer spirit by men such as Jim Bridger and Kit Carson, the "west" as it was called wasn't truly a geographic location, it was a ideal, a thought that there was something better on the other side of the river or the mountain range. The mountain range is now space/time. The modern day astronauts embody that same spirit and desire to "see what's out there" and hopefully we'll get a visionary who will let us go.

Superb metaphor. Agree wholeheartedly. Now, we must go.......

Robert

 

[Toro]

I do not believe we are alone in the universe. I think it is a statistical impossibility that we are.

Having said that, I don't think UFOs are beaming up cows over Kansas farms nightly either.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I have no doubt that life exists on other worlds. What I dispute is the naive search for contact. There is no life form here on earth that is not predatory in some manner. That leads me to the conclusion that any life found would also be predatory. Sending our television and radio broadcasts out into space is foolish IMO. That space probe with all the 411 about earth and humans was like sending out a menu. IMO it will end up being our undoing.

We as humans have always thought of ourselves as special and worse than that protected by some invisible being. I just hope that whatever is out there doesn't find us tasty.

A few corrections: The radio transmissions are not "sent", they go out everywhere in all directions as they are "broadcasts", not direct signals "sent". They travel no different than the wind here on Earth, out in space. They just are, and have been since the first day of radio, then TV and now everything.

We basically, have a good thread within us, regardless of the bad, or we would not have survived for the last 1 million years≤≥, so, it tends to suggest we will also abide on our tomorrows.

Just as we would not be predatory (look at the plaque on the side of Voyager 1, heading out to the Orion Arm of our galaxy in a few billion years), it stands that whomever finds us, would also not be predatory in return.

In what way is our search or seeking for off solar worlds naive?

The SETI signal, operating in all bands, all radio waves, 24/7/365, broadcast a signal of code in alpha numeric that can be decoded by anyone that can receive it, says, "Hello, we are here. We are Human beings. We are located at (coordinates). Please acknowledge. Thank you."

A beacon, in the vast ocean of being alone, so far as we know.
Fittingly, along with this, is the words of Carl Sagan's "The Pale Blue Dot".

Clarify for us please on naive.

Thank you.

Robert

 

[Robert_Stephens]

I do not believe we are alone in the universe. I think it is a statistical impossibility that we are.

Having said that, I don't think UFOs are beaming up cows over Kansas farms nightly either.

Agree totally. Also, I do not think anyone is being "anal probed" other than in Berkley.

We are not alone, we will soon find I surmise.

Robert

 

[HUGGY]

I further suspect that we will stupidly go on trying to find other life and eventually come into contact with it somewhere in deep space way before we "find" it on some planet. It will no doubt "find" us out there first and study whatever it is we have sent out there. If "they" have survived long enough to get to a point in developing the environment where they can waste resources by "exploring" in person it is likely the vessel we encounter will be huge. It will have to store vast quantities of whatever sustains their life and have enough shielding for energy rays and layers to absorb the odd meteorite with out being destroyed. In any case I even further suspect that assuming these "things" will have human characteristics like the Star Trek Characters is way beyond foolish. If THEY are out looking for something it will be something that benefits THEM.

 

[uscitizen]

Actually, all your points are valid in the what if category. This is sound. It is also factored in when using the Drake Formula. Frank Drake was right on and in his simple formula (I use it constantly), it does define easily the what ifs and what may be. Suffice to say, then, it is being quickly learned that Class G worlds are common and the Goldilocks Zone is a common denominator. This then infers that Drake is probably correct, and there are about 10,000 inhabitant systems like Earth and our solar system in the Milky Way Galaxy, our home.

Where they are and what they are is the question, of course.

Too, finally, with your suppositions, out of 120,000,000,000≥ stars in our galaxy, and only 10,000 with developed life, that is a tiny tiny percentage. or, √/.00012%. Not much.....but its more than one.....

Good input. Thank you.

Robert

And there are billions of galaxies.