Are atheists destroying the US?

[BluePhantom]

In Luke Jesus helps us understand Gawd's relationship with humans by telling us that Gawd treats people the way people treat their slaves...they beat some more than others. Then Jesus gets really crazy and condemns a fig tree, simple because the fig tree stopped producing figs. Yet, here you are, blaming me for not being able to suck enough meaning out of the Bible.

To date, I haven't run out and murdered any of the people I dislike because I feel that living in such a vigilante society would be a step back in societal evolution, and thus less good a life for me and for everyone else. The old "Wild West" of America was such a lawless, vigilante society, even though its denizens were steeped in religiosity. Everybody "open carried", and a careless word taken as an affront could cause a shootout in the public streets, resulting in death. Common in those days, even though nearly all of those Western gunslingers were Christian born and raised. I think society has come a long way since then, for the better. And it's due to secular law and personal ethics, not religion. Obviously.

I'm sorry you feel that I'm an elitist simply because our ethics and morality have evolved.

Well again, what I question is your perspective. It seems to me that you are quite focused on finding things in the Bible that you disagree with in order to ignore what you can agree with. It's important to understand that there is a difference between the Jesus of history and the Jesus of theology as well. That we know of we have no first hand accounts of the life of Jesus. The gospels are traditionally attributed to the Apostles or their companions, but they almost certainly were not written by them. The letters of Paul have some problems associated with them...many are pseudopigraphic and those that aren't reflect Paul's interpretation and message and not necessarily the message of Jesus. When looked at critically, there are many things attributed to Jesus that don't make a whole lot of sense or are historically implausible.

As far as morality and ethics, see my immediate post above

 

[Carla_Danger]

Well He said to turn the other cheek and then caused a shit storm in the Temple. If you have to suck, and suck, and suck to get life lessons from the Bible, you don't have a great deal of intellectual capacity. As far as what Jesus had to say about slavery, we really don't know His opinion. If He said something about it, it never made it to the Bible. But, one has to keep in mind as well, that the material world was not the primary concern of Jesus. For Jesus, it was not where you were in life that was important so much as what you make out of life that was important. His message was primarily internal; that being focused on one's inner self and personal interactions as opposed to major social revolution. There are a lot of reasons for this but that would be a thread unto itself.

As far as your "modern morality" and statement of superiority is concerned, you are certainly portraying yourself as an elitist. I ask you this: "what is moral?" Doesn't morality depend on the environment around you? I would argue that what is moral is based almost exclusively on geography, time, culture, etc. For you to say that your definition of morality is superior is quite ethnocentric. That's the kind of stuff extremists say.

In Luke Jesus helps us understand Gawd's relationship with humans by telling us that Gawd treats people the way people treat their slaves...they beat some more than others. Then Jesus gets really crazy and condemns a fig tree, simple because the fig tree stopped producing figs. Yet, here you are, blaming me for not being able to suck enough meaning out of the Bible.

To date, I haven't run out and murdered any of the people I dislike because I feel that living in such a vigilante society would be a step back in societal evolution, and thus less good a life for me and for everyone else. The old "Wild West" of America was such a lawless, vigilante society, even though its denizens were steeped in religiosity. Everybody "open carried", and a careless word taken as an affront could cause a shootout in the public streets, resulting in death. Common in those days, even though nearly all of those Western gunslingers were Christian born and raised. I think society has come a long way since then, for the better. And it's due to secular law and personal ethics, not religion. Obviously.

I'm sorry you feel that I'm an elitist simply because our ethics and morality have evolved.

Applause aplenty'.


Late edit - if you do run out and murder someone you don't like, umm, PM me and I can recommend a good Jew lawyer.

I will certainly keep that in mind. Thank you! As long as there's no tequila and/or guns around, I should be fine. For some reason, tequila makes me very tall.

 

[BluePhantom]

The classic mistake Christians make is to perceive their bible as written by a 'god' or 'deity,' and consequently possessing some sort of 'authority' on matters concerning morals and values.

In fact this is utter nonsense.

The bible was written by men, imbued with man's fear, ignorance, and hate, and is therefore completely devoid of 'authority' concerning morals and values.

Well I am not quite sure I would go that far. I would certainly argue just as passionately with someone who believes in moral absolutism and bases it on the Bible. But to suggest that the Bible is devoid of authority may be a bit too much. One must remember that the authors of the Bible were social activists in a lot of ways. Picture a demonstration in the 1960s and a guy standing there with a bullhorn bitching about social injustice and that kind of stuff. Well those were the kind of guys that wrote the Bible...or at least a good portion of the Bible. They certainly had authority in their day. Whether that authority remains in the current age is up for debate I suppose.

I agree that much of it is man's hate, ignorance, and fear...but again look at what you choose to focus upon. You overlook the parts that are loving, compassionate, and hopeful. If you are to be fair, you should certainly recognize that the Bible contains both

 

[Carla_Danger]

Horton Hatches the Egg or The Velveteen Rabbit, are two good books to read for lessons in ethics and morality.

Perhaps, but would you refuse good advice simply because you didn't like the source? Whether one believes in God or not, the overriding principle of how to treat your fellow man according to Christianity is a pretty good thing. If everyone treated each other as Jesus suggested, I imagine the world would be a much better place whether you accept Jesus as divine or not.

Now I will add something. I paraphrase Gandhi who said, essentially, 'Christianity is a wonderful thing. I wish more Christians would give it a try.' Maybe instead of pounding your shoe on the table like Nikita Khruschev, atheists and theists should stop bickering about what they disagree upon and find points that they do agree upon.

I think in the case of this thread all have agreed that atheists are not destroying the US...at least no more so than anyone else. That's a start

Good comments, BP.

I would be cautious about using the judeo-christian gawds as a standard for how to treat people. Those gawds are among the most cruel and ruthless gawds ever to be devised by the mind of man. Try living your life per the standards of behavior in the bibles, the OT especially, and you will quickly be jailed. Morality isn't the province of Judaism or Christianity or Islam. Whatever did we do before religion? How is it we are here despite our ancestors total lack of moral compass?

Plenty of civilizations who never heard of the christian religious myths operated under the same rules and codes of behavior and they did just fine-- in fact, better in many cases.

As it was noted previously, the tales surrounding Jesus (gawd Jr.?), have been changed, edited and embellished by the writers of the bibles. Ultimately, how does anyone "find the gawds" when "finding" the gawds depends on how you define the gawds. If we proceed with "there are many paths to God", it would also suggest there are many differing standards of morality and thus Christians are in a constant state of conflict when these differing standards of morality clash. If you believe in the christian gawds, you're faced with the many conceptions and configurations of belief systems represented by the various sects and subdivisions of christianity. Quite often, theses various sects don't often recognize the validity of the competing sect.

I think these questions and many more naturally follow when one believes in any of the competing gawds and the religions built around them. It is the fact that differing religions answer these questions about morality with differing degrees of coherence.

My suggestion is to scrap the various bibles now in circulation and press for one, single establishment of christianity via the Jefferson Bible.

Jefferson opines:
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

 

[hangover]

Horton Hatches the Egg or The Velveteen Rabbit, are two good books to read for lessons in ethics and morality.

Perhaps, but would you refuse good advice simply because you didn't like the source? Whether one believes in God or not, the overriding principle of how to treat your fellow man according to Christianity is a pretty good thing. If everyone treated each other as Jesus suggested, I imagine the world would be a much better place whether you accept Jesus as divine or not.

Now I will add something. I paraphrase Gandhi who said, essentially, 'Christianity is a wonderful thing. I wish more Christians would give it a try.' Maybe instead of pounding your shoe on the table like Nikita Khruschev, atheists and theists should stop bickering about what they disagree upon and find points that they do agree upon.

I think in the case of this thread all have agreed that atheists are not destroying the US...at least no more so than anyone else. That's a start

Sure, you can suck a teaspoon of meaning out of the Bible, but the problem is, you have to suck, and suck, and suck. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but he really wasn't a liberator. He never really voiced any concerns over slavery. Jesus said to love thy neighbor, but his family values were horrible. He had no relationship with his parents, and he blew his mother off, over and over. Jesus was angry and impatient, and his parables were often foggy and meaningless.

Again, our modern morality is superior.

"Again, our modern morality is superior."
Wow, you've taken nut job to a new level, that's for sure. Even Huckabee and Ted Cruz aren't that far out. You're the atheist equivalent of Rush Limpballs. Everyday I think that it can't get any crazier and then there you are.

 

[BluePhantom]

Horton Hatches the Egg or The Velveteen Rabbit, are two good books to read for lessons in ethics and morality.

Perhaps, but would you refuse good advice simply because you didn't like the source? Whether one believes in God or not, the overriding principle of how to treat your fellow man according to Christianity is a pretty good thing. If everyone treated each other as Jesus suggested, I imagine the world would be a much better place whether you accept Jesus as divine or not.

Now I will add something. I paraphrase Gandhi who said, essentially, 'Christianity is a wonderful thing. I wish more Christians would give it a try.' Maybe instead of pounding your shoe on the table like Nikita Khruschev, atheists and theists should stop bickering about what they disagree upon and find points that they do agree upon.

I think in the case of this thread all have agreed that atheists are not destroying the US...at least no more so than anyone else. That's a start

Sure, you can suck a teaspoon of meaning out of the Bible, but the problem is, you have to suck, and suck, and suck. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but he really wasn't a liberator. He never really voiced any concerns over slavery. Jesus said to love thy neighbor, but his family values were horrible. He had no relationship with his parents, and he blew his mother off, over and over. Jesus was angry and impatient, and his parables were often foggy and meaningless.

Again, our modern morality is superior.

"Again, our modern morality is superior."
Wow, you've taken nut job to a new level, that's for sure. Even Huckabee and Ted Cruz aren't that far out. You're the atheist equivalent of Rush Limpballs. Everyday I think that it can't get any crazier and then there you are.

All I will say is you have to be pretty far out there to get Hangover and I to agree on something

 

[Carla_Danger]

Horton Hatches the Egg or The Velveteen Rabbit, are two good books to read for lessons in ethics and morality.

Perhaps, but would you refuse good advice simply because you didn't like the source? Whether one believes in God or not, the overriding principle of how to treat your fellow man according to Christianity is a pretty good thing. If everyone treated each other as Jesus suggested, I imagine the world would be a much better place whether you accept Jesus as divine or not.

Now I will add something. I paraphrase Gandhi who said, essentially, 'Christianity is a wonderful thing. I wish more Christians would give it a try.' Maybe instead of pounding your shoe on the table like Nikita Khruschev, atheists and theists should stop bickering about what they disagree upon and find points that they do agree upon.

I think in the case of this thread all have agreed that atheists are not destroying the US...at least no more so than anyone else. That's a start

Sure, you can suck a teaspoon of meaning out of the Bible, but the problem is, you have to suck, and suck, and suck. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but he really wasn't a liberator. He never really voiced any concerns over slavery. Jesus said to love thy neighbor, but his family values were horrible. He had no relationship with his parents, and he blew his mother off, over and over. Jesus was angry and impatient, and his parables were often foggy and meaningless.

Again, our modern morality is superior.

"Again, our modern morality is superior."
Wow, you've taken nut job to a new level, that's for sure. Even Huckabee and Ted Cruz aren't that far out. You're the atheist equivalent of Rush Limpballs. Everyday I think that it can't get any crazier and then there you are.

Stoning...do you want to go back to stoning? How about burning people to death?


Leviticus 20-14 “It is a sexual sin if a man has sexual relations with a woman and her mother. The people must burn that man and the two women in fire! Don’t let this sexual sin happen among your people.

15 “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, both the man and the animal must be put to death. 16 If a woman has sexual relations with an animal, you must kill the woman and the animal. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.


I can understand punishing the man, but the animal? Why should the animal be put to death?

Of course our ethics and morality have evolved. I'm sorry you never made it over that hump.

 

[BluePhantom]

Stoning...do you want to go back to stoning? How about burning people to death?


Leviticus 20-14 “It is a sexual sin if a man has sexual relations with a woman and her mother. The people must burn that man and the two women in fire! Don’t let this sexual sin happen among your people.

15 “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, both the man and the animal must be put to death. 16 If a woman has sexual relations with an animal, you must kill the woman and the animal. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Leviticus only applies if you are a Jew and living in the Holy Land. If you don't meet those criteria you can toss it over your shoulder.

 

[BluePhantom]

I am going to take off for a while, but consider this. Everyone accepts things on faith. There is no person that can test every aspect of life to determine the truth for themselves. Even atheists have faith in something. For example, I would bet that very few posters on USMB (if any) could sit in the middle of a debate on theoretical physics between Steven Hawking and Leonard Susskind and be able to contribute or understand a damn thing they were saying. At the end of the day we just say "ok I will go with it because you two say so". The world is full of stuff that we simply accept on faith because the concept is either above our capacity for understanding or we simply don't have the time or inclination to prove it to ourselves. To some degree we all hold beliefs simply because someone else told us to.

Be back later.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Stoning...do you want to go back to stoning? How about burning people to death?


Leviticus 20-14 “It is a sexual sin if a man has sexual relations with a woman and her mother. The people must burn that man and the two women in fire! Don’t let this sexual sin happen among your people.

15 “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, both the man and the animal must be put to death. 16 If a woman has sexual relations with an animal, you must kill the woman and the animal. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Leviticus only applies if you are a Jew and living in the Holy Land. If you don't meet those criteria you can toss it over your shoulder.

Laws and social rules existed long before Jesus. Every society has had rules promoting the welfare of that society. Obviously killing, stealing, violence are not activities likely to benefit the people of that group. Even warlike tribes, conquerors who rape and pillage and kill have their own social rules against these things within their own social order.

It has everything to do with making life easier, and nothing to do with Gawd making the rules. Anyone whose IQ is higher than his age can understand the reason for laws. Again, it's due to secular law and personal ethics, not religion. .

 

[amrchaos]

The classic mistake Christians make is to perceive their bible as written by a 'god' or 'deity,' and consequently possessing some sort of 'authority' on matters concerning morals and values.

In fact this is utter nonsense.

The bible was written by men, imbued with man's fear, ignorance, and hate, and is therefore completely devoid of 'authority' concerning morals and values.

Well I am not quite sure I would go that far. I would certainly argue just as passionately with someone who believes in moral absolutism and bases it on the Bible. But to suggest that the Bible is devoid of authority may be a bit too much. One must remember that the authors of the Bible were social activists in a lot of ways. Picture a demonstration in the 1960s and a guy standing there with a bullhorn bitching about social injustice and that kind of stuff. Well those were the kind of guys that wrote the Bible...or at least a good portion of the Bible. They certainly had authority in their day. Whether that authority remains in the current age is up for debate I suppose.

I agree that much of it is man's hate, ignorance, and fear...but again look at what you choose to focus upon. You overlook the parts that are loving, compassionate, and hopeful. If you are to be fair, you should certainly recognize that the Bible contains both

Authority is a very tricky matter in itself.

Who/what should have it and who/what shouldn't is not such an easy thing to answer.

Turn the other cheek--you do know what is said about allowing a transgression, right? Better, try not to get hit!

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you--pretty sound advice, maybe we should follow it.

The situation and timing does come into play when considering advice as authority.

 

[amrchaos]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

 

[hangover]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

So you "believe" that the "truth" is bullshit. You also "believe" that scientific "cause and effect" is bullshit. So to you, that makes all the order in the universe bullshit. The order in your body isn't even the truth. The atoms that make up the cells that make your heart, lungs, muscles, tendons, arteries, and all the other stuff that makes up what you are, is just one big lie, because there is no truth to you. That's a sad, pitiful lump of blech. I'm still convinced that the truth is real, and I still claim the truth as my God. It's not hard to show someone the truth, but it's impossible to get them to believe it if they're a moron.

 

[amrchaos]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

So you "believe" that the "truth" is bullshit. You also "believe" that scientific "cause and effect" is bullshit. So to you, that makes all the order in the universe bullshit. The order in your body isn't even the truth. The atoms that make up the cells that make your heart, lungs, muscles, tendons, arteries, and all the other stuff that makes up what you are, is just one big lie, because there is no truth to you. That's a sad, pitiful lump of blech. I'm still convinced that the truth is real, and I still claim the truth as my God. It's not hard to show someone the truth, but it's impossible to get them to believe it if they're a moron.

Did I say that--no

What I did say it that you, nor anyone else, knows what exactly caused the Big Bang.

You are making a potentially dangerous mistake when you define your God as a cause of something. When the truth could very well be something that you would never accept as God as being the actual cause.

 

[Carla_Danger]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

So you "believe" that the "truth" is bullshit. You also "believe" that scientific "cause and effect" is bullshit. So to you, that makes all the order in the universe bullshit. The order in your body isn't even the truth. The atoms that make up the cells that make your heart, lungs, muscles, tendons, arteries, and all the other stuff that makes up what you are, is just one big lie, because there is no truth to you. That's a sad, pitiful lump of blech. I'm still convinced that the truth is real, and I still claim the truth as my God. It's not hard to show someone the truth, but it's impossible to get them to believe it if they're a moron.

You're sounding more like an angry fundie with every post.

 

[hangover]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

So you "believe" that the "truth" is bullshit. You also "believe" that scientific "cause and effect" is bullshit. So to you, that makes all the order in the universe bullshit. The order in your body isn't even the truth. The atoms that make up the cells that make your heart, lungs, muscles, tendons, arteries, and all the other stuff that makes up what you are, is just one big lie, because there is no truth to you. That's a sad, pitiful lump of blech. I'm still convinced that the truth is real, and I still claim the truth as my God. It's not hard to show someone the truth, but it's impossible to get them to believe it if they're a moron.

Did I say that--no

What I did say it that you, nor anyone else, knows what exactly caused the Big Bang.

You are making a potentially dangerous mistake when you define your God as a cause of something. When the truth could very well be something that you would never accept as God as being the actual cause.

Whatever created all that is, is the truth, and I except the truth. Trying to define God is like trying to put God in a box. No wonder no one can find the arc.

 

[hangover]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

So you "believe" that the "truth" is bullshit. You also "believe" that scientific "cause and effect" is bullshit. So to you, that makes all the order in the universe bullshit. The order in your body isn't even the truth. The atoms that make up the cells that make your heart, lungs, muscles, tendons, arteries, and all the other stuff that makes up what you are, is just one big lie, because there is no truth to you. That's a sad, pitiful lump of blech. I'm still convinced that the truth is real, and I still claim the truth as my God. It's not hard to show someone the truth, but it's impossible to get them to believe it if they're a moron.

You're sounding more like an angry fundie with every post.

Wow, that was a real stab in the heart....I'm sooooo hurt.

 

[Hollie]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

So you "believe" that the "truth" is bullshit. You also "believe" that scientific "cause and effect" is bullshit. So to you, that makes all the order in the universe bullshit. The order in your body isn't even the truth. The atoms that make up the cells that make your heart, lungs, muscles, tendons, arteries, and all the other stuff that makes up what you are, is just one big lie, because there is no truth to you. That's a sad, pitiful lump of blech. I'm still convinced that the truth is real, and I still claim the truth as my God. It's not hard to show someone the truth, but it's impossible to get them to believe it if they're a moron.

Did I say that--no

What I did say it that you, nor anyone else, knows what exactly caused the Big Bang.

You are making a potentially dangerous mistake when you define your God as a cause of something. When the truth could very well be something that you would never accept as God as being the actual cause.

Whatever created all that is, is the truth, and I except the truth. Trying to define God is like trying to put God in a box. No wonder no one can find the arc.

Space aliens took the Ark.

 

[hangover]

By the way, Hangover

Yu did not "Prove" your God exist--you claimed your God is the cause of the Big Bang but it obvious to all of us that we do not really know what caused the Big Bang.

This is no different than claiming your God cause the rain or your god is the cause for the sun to shine. With a little more investigation and you may refuse to recognize "that which caused this" as your god.

Unless you are comfortable with a highly natural cosmological event being God, I highly suggest rethinking what you think god suppose to be.

So you "believe" that the "truth" is bullshit. You also "believe" that scientific "cause and effect" is bullshit. So to you, that makes all the order in the universe bullshit. The order in your body isn't even the truth. The atoms that make up the cells that make your heart, lungs, muscles, tendons, arteries, and all the other stuff that makes up what you are, is just one big lie, because there is no truth to you. That's a sad, pitiful lump of blech. I'm still convinced that the truth is real, and I still claim the truth as my God. It's not hard to show someone the truth, but it's impossible to get them to believe it if they're a moron.

Did I say that--no

What I did say it that you, nor anyone else, knows what exactly caused the Big Bang.

You are making a potentially dangerous mistake when you define your God as a cause of something. When the truth could very well be something that you would never accept as God as being the actual cause.

Whatever created all that is, is the truth, and I except the truth. Trying to define God is like trying to put God in a box. No wonder no one can find the arc.

Space aliens took the Ark.

Nah, It's at the bottom of the "money pit".

 

[BluePhantom]

Stoning...do you want to go back to stoning? How about burning people to death?


Leviticus 20-14 “It is a sexual sin if a man has sexual relations with a woman and her mother. The people must burn that man and the two women in fire! Don’t let this sexual sin happen among your people.

15 “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, both the man and the animal must be put to death. 16 If a woman has sexual relations with an animal, you must kill the woman and the animal. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Leviticus only applies if you are a Jew and living in the Holy Land. If you don't meet those criteria you can toss it over your shoulder.

Laws and social rules existed long before Jesus. Every society has had rules promoting the welfare of that society. Obviously killing, stealing, violence are not activities likely to benefit the people of that group. Even warlike tribes, conquerors who rape and pillage and kill have their own social rules against these things within their own social order.

It has everything to do with making life easier, and nothing to do with Gawd making the rules. Anyone whose IQ is higher than his age can understand the reason for laws. Again, it's due to secular law and personal ethics, not religion. .

Yeah....might I suggest you do some research on James Fowler's stages of faith. Particularly stage two where it is an "all or nothing" view. This is a stage a lot of people of faith get caught in. It's also one that can have some really bad consequences both for the individual and for society as a whole if too many people get stuck there. While you are not a person of faith, your statements and attitudes are very similar to that stage two paradigm. You are viewing things from an atheist perspective but you are demonstrating the characteristics of a stage two theist.

Good luck. I hope you get beyond it because there are four more stages to go.