Arctic methane release

[Old Rocks]

Arctic News

 

[RollingThunder]

Serious stuff. Thanks for the link and the alert, OR. Our world seems to be getting closer to the cliff's edge of uncontrollable run-away global warming even faster than the scientists had feared it might.

Quite a ways into the series of reports you linked to is another link to a really good video about the possible effects of the methane releases we're starting to see and the parallels to a previous methane release event in Earth's history. They interview some of the top climate scientists. Check it out if you haven't already seen it.

 

[Abraham3]

I'm afraid I don't understand something. The localization of these releases to fault areas would indicate (to me, at least) that the source of the rapid or catastrophic releases were seismic in origin. What is the contention here? I can see how temperature increases will increase the release of methane from hydrates on the seabed, but how does that tie in to the fault lines?

Is seismic activity exposing fresh hydrates to ocean water?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

More AGW for the deep ocean to consume

 

[CrusaderFrank]

A major fault line crosses the Arctic Ocean, forming the boundery between two tectonic plates, the North American Plate and the Eurasian Plate. These plates slowly diverge, creating seismic tension along the fault line because of Manmade Global Warming

From where the Mid-Atlantic ridge enters the Arctic Ocean, it is called the Gakkel Ridge. The fault, due to Manmade Global Warming, continues as the Laptev Sea Rift, on to a transitional deformation zone in the Chersky Range in Siberia, then the Ulakhan Fault between the North American Plate and the Okhotsk Plate, and then continues as the Aleutian Trench to the end of the Queen Charlotte Fault system all because of manmade global warming....

blah blah blah

The Earth is fracking itself, it's been happening for eons

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm afraid I don't understand something. The localization of these releases to fault areas would indicate (to me, at least) that the source of the rapid or catastrophic releases were seismic in origin. What is the contention here? I can see how temperature increases will increase the release of methane from hydrates on the seabed, but how does that tie in to the fault lines?

Is seismic activity exposing fresh hydrates to ocean water?

Not so much that as the fact that as the ocean water warms, the normal activity on the fault causes more methane to release than it would have in colder water. Kind of like an existing slow moving landslide moves a lot more after a long rainy period.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm afraid I don't understand something. The localization of these releases to fault areas would indicate (to me, at least) that the source of the rapid or catastrophic releases were seismic in origin. What is the contention here? I can see how temperature increases will increase the release of methane from hydrates on the seabed, but how does that tie in to the fault lines?

Is seismic activity exposing fresh hydrates to ocean water?

Not so much that as the fact that as the ocean water warms, the normal activity on the fault causes more methane to release than it would have in colder water. Kind of like an existing slow moving landslide moves a lot more after a long rainy period.

On Saturn's moon Titan, where methane exists as a liquid, you might be correct. We're talking about planet Earth so you're warming water explanation is plain fucking moronic

 

[Old Rocks]

Interesting point concerning methane. On the time scale of a century, it is about 20 to 25 times as effective of a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide. However, on a century scale, since methane combines with the oxygen in the atmosphere in about fifeteen years, after fifteen years you are dealing the resultant water and carbon dioxide produced. In the terms of a decade, methane is over one hundred times as effective of a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide. And, since the present methane is being emitted into the atmosphere faster than it is being oxidized, that means the present 1 part per million increase in that gas is having the same effect as a one hundred part per million increase in carbon dioxide.

Carbon dioxide is already at the 400 ppm level. CH4 is presently at the 1800 ppb level. That is equivelent to about 620 ppm of CO2. Add in the increases in NOx and the industrial GHGs that have no analog in nature, and we are on the road to an equivelant level of 1000 ppm of CO2, quite possibly in my lifetime. Going to be a real interesting ride, and there is no way that we are going to hold the increase in global temperature to less than 2 degrees C. Probably will not hold it to less than 4 C.

 

[martybegan]

I'm afraid I don't understand something. The localization of these releases to fault areas would indicate (to me, at least) that the source of the rapid or catastrophic releases were seismic in origin. What is the contention here? I can see how temperature increases will increase the release of methane from hydrates on the seabed, but how does that tie in to the fault lines?

Is seismic activity exposing fresh hydrates to ocean water?

Not so much that as the fact that as the ocean water warms, the normal activity on the fault causes more methane to release than it would have in colder water. Kind of like an existing slow moving landslide moves a lot more after a long rainy period.

So this is not a new release, as your OP purports, but a possible decrease in the solubility of methane in the water and thus an increase in the release into the atmosphere.

So more scaremongering from Old Rocks.

 

[martybegan]

interesting point concerning methane. On the time scale of a century, it is about 20 to 25 times as effective of a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide. However, on a century scale, since methane combines with the oxygen in the atmosphere in about fifeteen years, after fifteen years you are dealing the resultant water and carbon dioxide produced. In the terms of a decade, methane is over one hundred times as effective of a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide. And, since the present methane is being emitted into the atmosphere faster than it is being oxidized, that means the present 1 part per million increase in that gas is having the same effect as a one hundred part per million increase in carbon dioxide.

Carbon dioxide is already at the 400 ppm level. Ch4 is presently at the 1800 ppb level. That is equivelent to about 620 ppm of co2. Add in the increases in nox and the industrial ghgs that have no analog in nature, and we are on the road to an equivelant level of 1000 ppm of co2, quite possibly in my lifetime. Going to be a real interesting ride, and there is no way that we are going to hold the increase in global temperature to less than 2 degrees c. Probably will not hold it to less than 4 c.

revenge of the hockey stick

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm afraid I don't understand something. The localization of these releases to fault areas would indicate (to me, at least) that the source of the rapid or catastrophic releases were seismic in origin. What is the contention here? I can see how temperature increases will increase the release of methane from hydrates on the seabed, but how does that tie in to the fault lines?

Is seismic activity exposing fresh hydrates to ocean water?

Not so much that as the fact that as the ocean water warms, the normal activity on the fault causes more methane to release than it would have in colder water. Kind of like an existing slow moving landslide moves a lot more after a long rainy period.

On Saturn's moon Titan, where methane exists as a liquid, you might be correct. We're talking about planet Earth so you're warming water explanation is plain fucking moronic

The deep Greenland Sea is warming faster than the world ocean

Since 1993, oceanographers from the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI), have carried out regularly expeditions to the Greenland Sea on board the research ice breaker Polarstern to investigate the changes in this region. The programme has always included extensive temperature and salinity measurements. For the present study, the AWI scientists have combined these long term data set with historical observations dating back to the year 1950. The result of their analysis: In the last thirty years, the water temperature between 2000 metres depth and the sea floor has risen by 0.3 degrees centigrade.

'This sounds like a small number, but we need to see this in relation to the large mass of water that has been warmed' says the AWI scientist and lead author of the study, Dr. Raquel Somavilla Cabrillo. 'The amount of heat accumulated within the lowest 1.5 kilometres in the abyssal Greenland Sea would warm the atmosphere above Europe by 4 degrees centigrade. The Greenland Sea is just a small part of the global ocean. However, the observed increase of 0.3 degrees in the deep Greenland Sea is ten times higher than the temperature increase in the global ocean on average. For this reason, this area and the remaining less studied polar oceans need to be taken into consideration'.

The cause of the warming is a change in the subtle interplay of two processes in the Greenland Sea: the cooling by deep convection of very cold surface waters in winter and the warming by the import of relatively warm deep waters from the interior Arctic Ocean. "Until the early 1980s, the central Greenland Sea has been mixed from the top to the bottom by winter cooling at the surface making waters dense enough to reach the sea floor" explains Somavilla. "This transfer of cold water from the top to the bottom has not occurred in the last 30 years. However, relatively warm water continues to flow from the deep Arctic Ocean into the Greenland Sea. Cooling from above and warming through inflow are no longer balanced, and thus the Greenland Sea is progressively becoming warmer and warmer."

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm afraid I don't understand something. The localization of these releases to fault areas would indicate (to me, at least) that the source of the rapid or catastrophic releases were seismic in origin. What is the contention here? I can see how temperature increases will increase the release of methane from hydrates on the seabed, but how does that tie in to the fault lines?

Is seismic activity exposing fresh hydrates to ocean water?

Not so much that as the fact that as the ocean water warms, the normal activity on the fault causes more methane to release than it would have in colder water. Kind of like an existing slow moving landslide moves a lot more after a long rainy period.

So this is not a new release, as your OP purports, but a possible decrease in the solubility of methane in the water and thus an increase in the release into the atmosphere.

So more scaremongering from Old Rocks.

A decrease in solubility of methane in water?

Now tell me, what is the cause of this decrease? After all, solubility is a basic chemical constant for gases and water. In order for that solubility to change, something else has to change. A nice glib comment totally without basis in any kind of science.

 

[martybegan]

Not so much that as the fact that as the ocean water warms, the normal activity on the fault causes more methane to release than it would have in colder water. Kind of like an existing slow moving landslide moves a lot more after a long rainy period.

So this is not a new release, as your OP purports, but a possible decrease in the solubility of methane in the water and thus an increase in the release into the atmosphere.

So more scaremongering from Old Rocks.

A decrease in solubility of methane in water?

Now tell me, what is the cause of this decrease? After all, solubility is a basic chemical constant for gases and water. In order for that solubility to change, something else has to change. A nice glib comment totally without basis in any kind of science.

Let me correct, an overall significant increase in water temperature, resulting in an overall significant decrease in methane solubility, and thus an overall signifcant increase in global methane concentrations.

I have a degree in ChemE, no need to instruct me on the concept of dissolved gasses in an aqueous solution.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not so much that as the fact that as the ocean water warms, the normal activity on the fault causes more methane to release than it would have in colder water. Kind of like an existing slow moving landslide moves a lot more after a long rainy period.

On Saturn's moon Titan, where methane exists as a liquid, you might be correct. We're talking about planet Earth so you're warming water explanation is plain fucking moronic

The deep Greenland Sea is warming faster than the world ocean

Since 1993, oceanographers from the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI), have carried out regularly expeditions to the Greenland Sea on board the research ice breaker Polarstern to investigate the changes in this region. The programme has always included extensive temperature and salinity measurements. For the present study, the AWI scientists have combined these long term data set with historical observations dating back to the year 1950. The result of their analysis: In the last thirty years, the water temperature between 2000 metres depth and the sea floor has risen by 0.3 degrees centigrade.

'This sounds like a small number, but we need to see this in relation to the large mass of water that has been warmed' says the AWI scientist and lead author of the study, Dr. Raquel Somavilla Cabrillo. 'The amount of heat accumulated within the lowest 1.5 kilometres in the abyssal Greenland Sea would warm the atmosphere above Europe by 4 degrees centigrade. The Greenland Sea is just a small part of the global ocean. However, the observed increase of 0.3 degrees in the deep Greenland Sea is ten times higher than the temperature increase in the global ocean on average. For this reason, this area and the remaining less studied polar oceans need to be taken into consideration'.

The cause of the warming is a change in the subtle interplay of two processes in the Greenland Sea: the cooling by deep convection of very cold surface waters in winter and the warming by the import of relatively warm deep waters from the interior Arctic Ocean. "Until the early 1980s, the central Greenland Sea has been mixed from the top to the bottom by winter cooling at the surface making waters dense enough to reach the sea floor" explains Somavilla. "This transfer of cold water from the top to the bottom has not occurred in the last 30 years. However, relatively warm water continues to flow from the deep Arctic Ocean into the Greenland Sea. Cooling from above and warming through inflow are no longer balanced, and thus the Greenland Sea is progressively becoming warmer and warmer."

And that's what turned methane from liquid to a gas?

 

[skookerasbil]

Not getting the point of this thread?


And......what?



In the bigger picture......how does this matter?



Im thinking nobody cares!

 

[PredFan]

It was me. Had airline burritos on the flight up there.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yep.. The score as we near the end of 1st quarter on the Russian Arctic shelf is ----

Siberian Methane Calthrates ------ 7.9tg/yr
Whirled Termites ------------ 12tg/yr

Supersaturated Siberian Seas | Methanenet

Covered in ice for 265 days of the year, and bordered by the frozen wastes of the Siberian tundra, it is hardly surprising that the shallow seas of East Siberian Arctic Shelf (ESAS) have not before now been subject to extensive monitoring for methane emissions. However, due to the efforts of an international collaboration between researchers based in Alaska, Vladivostock and Stockholm, a comprehensive survey of methane concentrations in these waters has now been conducted. The results, reported in Science (Shakhova et al. 2010) make compelling reading and raise new questions about future Arctic methane fluxes.

Based on all the observations, the team calculated annual atmospheric methane flux from the ESAS at 7.98 Tg C-CH4. To put this in context, previous research has estimated the global methane flux from oceans as 4 – 15 Tg C-CH4 y-1 (IPCC, 2007).




The influence of termites on atmospheric trace gases: CH4, CO2, CHCl3, N2O, CO,

The influence of termites on atmospheric trace gases: CH4, CO2, CHCl3, N2O, CO, H2, and light hydrocarbons

Khalil, M. A. K.; Rasmussen, R. A.; French, J. R. J.; Holt, J. A.

Journal of Geophysical Research, Volume 95, Issue D4, p. 3619-3634

Based on field studies of mounds of Australian termites we estimate that on a global scale termites emit about 12×1012 g/yr of methane (>20 tg/yr) and about 4×1015 g CO2/yr (>8 pg/yr). Most of the detailed results are based on studies of the species Coptotermes lacteus. We found that in mid-latitudes the emissions vary seasonally.

Shakova is the leading researcher in this area.. He has said repeatedly that SEISMIC activity not warming is the greatest threat to release this storage field..

Drill Baby Drill ----- before it's too late..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not getting the point of this thread?


And......what?



In the bigger picture......how does this matter?



Im thinking nobody cares!

I'm going to scare the crap out of Trick or Treaters and dress as Manmade Global Warming for Halloween

 

[RollingThunder]

On Saturn's moon Titan, where methane exists as a liquid, you might be correct. We're talking about planet Earth so you're warming water explanation is plain fucking moronic

The deep Greenland Sea is warming faster than the world ocean

Since 1993, oceanographers from the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI), have carried out regularly expeditions to the Greenland Sea on board the research ice breaker Polarstern to investigate the changes in this region. The programme has always included extensive temperature and salinity measurements. For the present study, the AWI scientists have combined these long term data set with historical observations dating back to the year 1950. The result of their analysis: In the last thirty years, the water temperature between 2000 metres depth and the sea floor has risen by 0.3 degrees centigrade.

'This sounds like a small number, but we need to see this in relation to the large mass of water that has been warmed' says the AWI scientist and lead author of the study, Dr. Raquel Somavilla Cabrillo. 'The amount of heat accumulated within the lowest 1.5 kilometres in the abyssal Greenland Sea would warm the atmosphere above Europe by 4 degrees centigrade. The Greenland Sea is just a small part of the global ocean. However, the observed increase of 0.3 degrees in the deep Greenland Sea is ten times higher than the temperature increase in the global ocean on average. For this reason, this area and the remaining less studied polar oceans need to be taken into consideration'.

The cause of the warming is a change in the subtle interplay of two processes in the Greenland Sea: the cooling by deep convection of very cold surface waters in winter and the warming by the import of relatively warm deep waters from the interior Arctic Ocean. "Until the early 1980s, the central Greenland Sea has been mixed from the top to the bottom by winter cooling at the surface making waters dense enough to reach the sea floor" explains Somavilla. "This transfer of cold water from the top to the bottom has not occurred in the last 30 years. However, relatively warm water continues to flow from the deep Arctic Ocean into the Greenland Sea. Cooling from above and warming through inflow are no longer balanced, and thus the Greenland Sea is progressively becoming warmer and warmer."

And that's what turned methane from liquid to a gas?

All of your doubts and questions arise from your own moronic ignorance, CrazyFruitcake. Methane turns from a liquid to a gas at about minus 258 degrees F. Your question is very retarded.

Methane gas molecules can get locked inside a cage of frozen water molecules, forming an icy mass that is called either methane clathrate or methane hydrate. The articles cited in the OP are talking about the destabilization of methane clathrate deposits on the ocean floor.

Methane clathrate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Methane clathrate (CH4•5.75H2O[1]), also called methane hydrate, hydromethane, methane ice, fire ice, natural gas hydrate, or gas hydrate, is a solid clathrate compound (more specifically, a clathrate hydrate) in which a large amount of methane is trapped within a crystal structure of water, forming a solid similar to ice.[2] Originally thought to occur only in the outer regions of the Solar System where temperatures are low and water ice is common, significant deposits of methane clathrate have been found under sediments on the ocean floors of Earth.[3]

Methane clathrates are common constituents of the shallow marine geosphere, and they occur both in deep sedimentary structures, and form outcrops on the ocean floor. Methane hydrates are believed to form by migration of gas from depth along geological faults, followed by precipitation, or crystallization, on contact of the rising gas stream with cold sea water. Methane clathrates are also present in deep Antarctic ice cores, and record a history of atmospheric methane concentrations, dating to 800,000 years ago.[4] The ice-core methane clathrate record is a primary source of data for global warming research, along with oxygen and carbon dioxide.

Methane clathrates and climate change

Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. Despite its short atmospheric half life of 7 years, methane has a global warming potential of 62 over 20 years and 21 over 100 years (IPCC, 1996; Berner and Berner, 1996; vanLoon and Duffy, 2000). The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

Climate scientists like James E. Hansen hypothesize that methane clathrates in the permafrost regions will be released consequent to global warming, unleashing powerful feedback forces which may cause runaway climate change that cannot be controlled.

Recent research carried out in 2008 in the Siberian Arctic has shown millions of tonnes of methane being released[36][37][38][39][40] with concentrations in some regions reaching up to 100 times above normal.[41]

 

[Old Rocks]

So this is not a new release, as your OP purports, but a possible decrease in the solubility of methane in the water and thus an increase in the release into the atmosphere.

So more scaremongering from Old Rocks.

A decrease in solubility of methane in water?

Now tell me, what is the cause of this decrease? After all, solubility is a basic chemical constant for gases and water. In order for that solubility to change, something else has to change. A nice glib comment totally without basis in any kind of science.

Let me correct, an overall significant increase in water temperature, resulting in an overall significant decrease in methane solubility, and thus an overall signifcant increase in global methane concentrations.

I have a degree in ChemE, no need to instruct me on the concept of dissolved gasses in an aqueous solution.

Now that is exacty what we are talking about. The temperature of the water is increasing. Therefore more methane is released from the clathrates. But, since the water is warmer, less goes into solution where the methogens can process it, so more is released into the atmosphere, where it increases the amount of heat retained by the atmosphere. Which, of course, warms the water.

Thank you.