Apartheid? Really?

[flacaltenn]

Not even CLOSE to apartheid... Apartheid requires the refusal to grant CITZENSHIP rights to inhabitants. To call it APARTHEID -- you'd need to find a majority of Pali residents who WANT TO BE Israeli..

Good luck with that. The desire to share national identity and rights with Jews is somehow suspiciously MISSING from the Hamas charter or the Fatah Charter for that matter.. Isn't it Louie??

Israel refuses to grant citizenship to non-Jews under its control, the same as the Apartheid South African Government refused to grant citizenship to the non-white citizens and inhabitants of the Bantustans over which Apartheid South Africa had control.

How many of those non-Jews want and aspire to be Israeli citizens? That's the issue. Do they want to represented by the law of the land? Do they want seats in the Knesset? I'm doubting the sincerity of their DESIRE to be governed under the current government. Aren't you???

Most Palestinians have realized that the Jews will never allow them to achieve self-determination and have resigned themselves to a one state solution.

"But these days, as Palestinians see prospects for the so-called two-state solution disintegrating, a growing number are mulling over a provocative alternative: a single binational state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean."

With the two-state solution a distant dream, Palestinians ask if it's time to push for a one state solution - LA Times

A "one state solution" when the Palis say it -- means something WAY different than when Diplomats suggest it. I know your entire issue is peace and love in the HolyLand, but a Pali "one state solution" is a REAL threat of apartheid. Not just an imagined one...

Don't think there was EVER a time when the Palis wanted citizenship rights within Israel. Now correct me if I'm wrong on that -- but OBVIOUSLY "apartheid" is the abatement of Civil Liberties" for the RESIDENTS of that country. Show me ANY statement where the Palis EVER considered living with Jews in the HolyLand. FROM their leadership....

If you can't --- it's not even close to apartheid.. (or any kind of "one state solution")

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

 

[louie888]

Israel refuses to grant citizenship to non-Jews under its control, the same as the Apartheid South African Government refused to grant citizenship to the non-white citizens and inhabitants of the Bantustans over which Apartheid South Africa had control.

How many of those non-Jews want and aspire to be Israeli citizens? That's the issue. Do they want to represented by the law of the land? Do they want seats in the Knesset? I'm doubting the sincerity of their DESIRE to be governed under the current government. Aren't you???

Most Palestinians have realized that the Jews will never allow them to achieve self-determination and have resigned themselves to a one state solution.

"But these days, as Palestinians see prospects for the so-called two-state solution disintegrating, a growing number are mulling over a provocative alternative: a single binational state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean."

With the two-state solution a distant dream, Palestinians ask if it's time to push for a one state solution - LA Times

A "one state solution" when the Palis say it -- means something WAY different than when Diplomats suggest it. I know your entire issue is peace and love in the HolyLand, but a Pali "one state solution" is a REAL threat of apartheid. Not just an imagined one...

Don't think there was EVER a time when the Palis wanted citizenship rights within Israel. Now correct me if I'm wrong on that -- but OBVIOUSLY "apartheid" is the abatement of Civil Liberties" for the RESIDENTS of that country. Show me ANY statement where the Palis EVER considered living with Jews in the HolyLand. FROM their leadership....

If you can't --- it's not even close to apartheid.. (or any kind of "one state solution")

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear XXXX -- Mod Edit -- Discussing specific moderation again

Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

 

[Hollie]

How many of those non-Jews want and aspire to be Israeli citizens? That's the issue. Do they want to represented by the law of the land? Do they want seats in the Knesset? I'm doubting the sincerity of their DESIRE to be governed under the current government. Aren't you???

Most Palestinians have realized that the Jews will never allow them to achieve self-determination and have resigned themselves to a one state solution.

"But these days, as Palestinians see prospects for the so-called two-state solution disintegrating, a growing number are mulling over a provocative alternative: a single binational state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean."

With the two-state solution a distant dream, Palestinians ask if it's time to push for a one state solution - LA Times

A "one state solution" when the Palis say it -- means something WAY different than when Diplomats suggest it. I know your entire issue is peace and love in the HolyLand, but a Pali "one state solution" is a REAL threat of apartheid. Not just an imagined one...

Don't think there was EVER a time when the Palis wanted citizenship rights within Israel. Now correct me if I'm wrong on that -- but OBVIOUSLY "apartheid" is the abatement of Civil Liberties" for the RESIDENTS of that country. Show me ANY statement where the Palis EVER considered living with Jews in the HolyLand. FROM their leadership....

If you can't --- it's not even close to apartheid.. (or any kind of "one state solution")

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear and I won't respond to off topic crap as you just delete my posts. Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

It seems as you scour the web for your cut and paste material, you never bother to realize how buffoonish you appear with nonsense like the above.

 

[louie888]

Most Palestinians have realized that the Jews will never allow them to achieve self-determination and have resigned themselves to a one state solution.

"But these days, as Palestinians see prospects for the so-called two-state solution disintegrating, a growing number are mulling over a provocative alternative: a single binational state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean."

With the two-state solution a distant dream, Palestinians ask if it's time to push for a one state solution - LA Times

A "one state solution" when the Palis say it -- means something WAY different than when Diplomats suggest it. I know your entire issue is peace and love in the HolyLand, but a Pali "one state solution" is a REAL threat of apartheid. Not just an imagined one...

Don't think there was EVER a time when the Palis wanted citizenship rights within Israel. Now correct me if I'm wrong on that -- but OBVIOUSLY "apartheid" is the abatement of Civil Liberties" for the RESIDENTS of that country. Show me ANY statement where the Palis EVER considered living with Jews in the HolyLand. FROM their leadership....

If you can't --- it's not even close to apartheid.. (or any kind of "one state solution")

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear and I won't respond to off topic crap as you just delete my posts. Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

It seems as you scour the web for your cut and paste material, you never bother to realize how buffoonish you appear with nonsense like the above.

If you actually have a problem with the FACTS PRESENTED HERE:

then have a go, hon.

 

[Hollie]

A "one state solution" when the Palis say it -- means something WAY different than when Diplomats suggest it. I know your entire issue is peace and love in the HolyLand, but a Pali "one state solution" is a REAL threat of apartheid. Not just an imagined one...

Don't think there was EVER a time when the Palis wanted citizenship rights within Israel. Now correct me if I'm wrong on that -- but OBVIOUSLY "apartheid" is the abatement of Civil Liberties" for the RESIDENTS of that country. Show me ANY statement where the Palis EVER considered living with Jews in the HolyLand. FROM their leadership....

If you can't --- it's not even close to apartheid.. (or any kind of "one state solution")

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear and I won't respond to off topic crap as you just delete my posts. Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

It seems as you scour the web for your cut and paste material, you never bother to realize how buffoonish you appear with nonsense like the above.

If you actually have a problem with the FACTS PRESENTED HERE:

then have a go, hon.

You and facts are separated by a great divide. You mistake cutting and pasting cartoons with a cogent argument.

 

[louie888]

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear and I won't respond to off topic crap as you just delete my posts. Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

It seems as you scour the web for your cut and paste material, you never bother to realize how buffoonish you appear with nonsense like the above.

If you actually have a problem with the FACTS PRESENTED HERE:

then have a go, hon.

You and facts are separated by a great divide. You mistake cutting and pasting cartoons with a cogent argument.

So we agree that these facts are correct...

That is all.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

A "one state solution" when the Palis say it -- means something WAY different than when Diplomats suggest it. I know your entire issue is peace and love in the HolyLand, but a Pali "one state solution" is a REAL threat of apartheid. Not just an imagined one...

Don't think there was EVER a time when the Palis wanted citizenship rights within Israel. Now correct me if I'm wrong on that -- but OBVIOUSLY "apartheid" is the abatement of Civil Liberties" for the RESIDENTS of that country. Show me ANY statement where the Palis EVER considered living with Jews in the HolyLand. FROM their leadership....

If you can't --- it's not even close to apartheid.. (or any kind of "one state solution")

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear and I won't respond to off topic crap as you just delete my posts. Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

It seems as you scour the web for your cut and paste material, you never bother to realize how buffoonish you appear with nonsense like the above.

If you actually have a problem with the FACTS PRESENTED HERE:

then have a go, hon.

Obviously you have never been to Israel if you believe that Apartheid List. It would be like me calling every Arab country a shithole when I've never visited an Arab country.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why IS it that Palis have failed at any "Self governance" opportunity that they've ever had? It's not UP to the Israelis to provide for them or even determine their local enforcement. So your "list" ASSUMES that the Palis are "RESIDENTS OF ISRAEL".. That's a prerequisite for claiming Apartheid isn't it?

The Palis were well on the way to self-governance, designing their own schools, roads, law enforcement SEVERAL times in past 50 years. And they pissed away the opportunities thru in-fighting, civil war and endorsing totalitarian, terroristic leadership.

If they WANT those things in your 'checklist' -- they certainly don't want them as ISRAELIS. So there is no apartheid. Just a stand-off to an occupation gone badly....

 

[montelatici]

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear and I won't respond to off topic crap as you just delete my posts. Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

It seems as you scour the web for your cut and paste material, you never bother to realize how buffoonish you appear with nonsense like the above.

If you actually have a problem with the FACTS PRESENTED HERE:

then have a go, hon.

Obviously you have never been to Israel if you believe that Apartheid List. It would be like me calling every Arab country a shithole when I've never visited an Arab country.

I have been to Israel and I worked in South Africa during Apartheid and after Apartheid. The white South Africans treated the non-whites better than the Jews treat the non-Jews. While life in the various "Stans" was not great, there was not the same level of oppression and intrusion of the South African troops in the "Stans" that there is of the IDF in the WB. And, this is under conditions where the ANC was literally at war with the Government and staged many more and more deadly attacks on South African white civilians, especially farmers, than the Palestinians ever did.

All, the points on the comparison list are accurate.

 

[louie888]

Why IS it that Palis have failed at any "Self governance" opportunity that they've ever had? It's not UP to the Israelis to provide for them or even determine their local enforcement. So your "list" ASSUMES that the Palis are "RESIDENTS OF ISRAEL".. That's a prerequisite for claiming Apartheid isn't it?

The Palis were well on the way to self-governance, designing their own schools, roads, law enforcement SEVERAL times in past 50 years. And they pissed away the opportunities thru in-fighting, civil war and endorsing totalitarian, terroristic leadership.

If they WANT those things in your 'checklist' -- they certainly don't want them as ISRAELIS. So there is no apartheid. Just a stand-off to an occupation gone badly....

Sorry, can't respond to off topic stuff as this is zone 2.

If you actually disagree or believe any of the facts presented are false, then please inform. Hollie tried and failed as did a few others.

Here it is again for you. I am sure you can respond as this IS THE TOPIC.

 

[Shusha]

louie888

Above you make two claims. First, that the list of policies given below defines apartheid and secondly, that these policies represent Israel.

Jewish only cities, housing, buses and restaurants.
Removal from cities based on religion or race.
Forced segregation of schools by religion or race.
Identification cards based on religion or race.
Government restrictions on travel based on religion or race.

I disagree that this list represents apartheid. Segregation alone does not create a condition of the crime of apartheid. Segregation occurs in many places in the world and can be based on many different causes, including a deep-seated ideology which contributes to discrimination. Examples: primarily African-American housing areas in the US; First Nations reservations in the US and Canada; neighborhoods with strong homogeneous immigrant communities (Chinatown, Little Italy, etc) all over the world. I agree with you wholeheartedly that discrimination exists in Israel (with cause, imo) but in order for the crime of apartheid to be taking place the discrimination has to have a purpose of segregation and has to be institutionalized, systematic and backed by government laws specifically outlining that segregation. Such is not the case in Israel.

1. The law in Israel specifically prohibits the prevention sale or rental of property based on religion or ethnicity (and also gender, race, nationality, age, political party, and host of other common discriminations). This law of equal treatment has been tested in court and was successful in eliminating discrimination based on these criteria.

2. There are no Jewish-only buses or restaurants. If you have evidence of them, please provide. Further, it is illegal in Israel to discriminate based on race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, etc. And further to that, let's just add that while there is no law which segregates buses -- there is a legitimate security concern given the Arab propensity to blow up things -- you know, like buses.

3. I can think of no examples of removal from cities based on religion or race. If you have one, please provide.

4. There are no laws which demand the separation of school children. There are joint Arab-Jewish schools (read: demonstrable proof they are not illegal). In practice, most Arab students go to a school which is predominately conducted in Arabic and teaches Arabic and Muslim worldviews while most Jewish students go to a school which is predominately Hebrew-speaking and teaches an Israeli POV and culture. Universities are fully integrated. (Here in Canada we have schools taught in French and those taught in English. Not apartheid.)

5. Identity cards are based on citizenship and residency status, not religion or ethnicity.

6. Restrictions on travel are based on citizenship and travel documents, not on ethnicity or religion.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why IS it that Palis have failed at any "Self governance" opportunity that they've ever had? It's not UP to the Israelis to provide for them or even determine their local enforcement. So your "list" ASSUMES that the Palis are "RESIDENTS OF ISRAEL".. That's a prerequisite for claiming Apartheid isn't it?

The Palis were well on the way to self-governance, designing their own schools, roads, law enforcement SEVERAL times in past 50 years. And they pissed away the opportunities thru in-fighting, civil war and endorsing totalitarian, terroristic leadership.

If they WANT those things in your 'checklist' -- they certainly don't want them as ISRAELIS. So there is no apartheid. Just a stand-off to an occupation gone badly....

Sorry, can't respond to off topic stuff as this is zone 2.

If you actually disagree or believe any of the facts presented are false, then please inform. Hollie tried and failed as did a few others.

Here it is again for you. I am sure you can respond as this IS THE TOPIC.

I mentioned that "checklist" TWICE in the last response I gave you and you blew it all off. And didn't answer or discuss the assertions that I made. I ASSURE YOU -- that my last post was "on-topic" -- so feel free to respond (OR ))) Just continue to spam the chart.. Your choice..

 

[louie888]

All, the points on the comparison list are accurate.

Thanks for the sanity.

 

[montelatici]

J.M. Coetzee is a South Africa Nobel prize winner. He said it best:

"Coetzee then offered a definition of South African apartheid: “Apartheid was a system of enforced segregation based on race or ethnicity, put in place by an exclusive, self defined group in order to consolidate colonial conquest particular to cement its hold on the land and natural resources.” He continued, “In Jerusalem and the West Bank we see a system of …” and proceeded to read the same definition, ending to applause: “Draw your own conclusions.” - See more at: Are comparisons of South African apartheid and Israel useful?

 

[flacaltenn]

J.M. Coetzee is a South Africa Nobel prize winner. He said it best:

"Coetzee then offered a definition of South African apartheid: “Apartheid was a system of enforced segregation based on race or ethnicity, put in place by an exclusive, self defined group in order to consolidate colonial conquest particular to cement its hold on the land and natural resources.” He continued, “In Jerusalem and the West Bank we see a system of …” and proceeded to read the same definition, ending to applause: “Draw your own conclusions.” - See more at: Are comparisons of South African apartheid and Israel useful?

That would all be WONDERFULLY USEFUL --- if only the Palestinians just want equality and representation in the EXISTING government --- but you failed to show us ANYWHERE where these statements of Palis leadership might be. They don't want to SHARE any of those laws or rights with Jews and Israelis. Prove otherwise and MAYBE I'll start seeing a basis for calling this conflict "apartheid"...

 

[louie888]

This is crazy. What is it with you people? It's OK to say it. They already admit it for crying out loud.

It's time to admit it. Israeli policy is what it is: Apartheid

 

[ForeverYoung436]

This is crazy. What is it with you people? It's OK to say it. They already admit it for crying out loud.

It's time to admit it. Israeli policy is what it is: Apartheid

You have to differentiate between Life in Israel proper and Life in the territories. There is no Apartheid in Israel proper, as anyone who has visited, or has family in Israel, knows well. There are some measures of Apartheid in the territories, which the Palestinian leadership refuses to resolve.

 

[Hollie]

This is crazy. What is it with you people? It's OK to say it. They already admit it for crying out loud.

It's time to admit it. Israeli policy is what it is: Apartheid

You confuse cutting and pasting an opinion as something more than scouring the web for an opinion.

While the web can be an invaluable source of data, it unfortunately can also become a playground for the... how shall we say... "the gullible and the easily confused types", who scour the internet tabloid sites to satiate their conspiracy theories.

 

[louie888]

Typical of this crowd to take something so simple and obvious and try to obfuscate reality.

The primary definition of apartheid is racial segregation.
Definition of APARTHEID

And people still deny that Israel should have their picture in the dictionary next to that very definition.

 

[Juicin]

Totally off topic and the post above. This is about Israel's apartheid which you denied outright. After you delete your off topic posts, please understand that when I say the that the Jew in the pic reminds me of you, don't feel ashamed...

Cartoons?? Why don't you answer the questions I asked in those "off topic" posts above?? HOW MANY Pali leaders EVER advocated to be citizens WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS in Israel?? What FRACTION of Palis WANT to live under the same laws and freedoms as the Jews in Israel?? It's not apartheid if the goal is to REPLACE and CLEANSE the area of the current government...

Now your bud Monte truly BELIEVES in miracles. His ENTIRE angle is to impose the anarchy and tribal coexistence that existed in the Holy Land 2000 years ago. But CERTAINLY -- you don't believe that to be a viable "one state" solution --- do you??

Try talking to other posters... Not through them. It makes for better conversation....

Yes, the cartoon makes it clear and I won't respond to off topic crap as you just delete my posts. Perhaps if you ask on the proper thread I might help you out.
Beyond that, I can only hope that this simple image explains why defending racists shitbags and denying apartheid is wrong.

It seems as you scour the web for your cut and paste material, you never bother to realize how buffoonish you appear with nonsense like the above.

If you actually have a problem with the FACTS PRESENTED HERE:

then have a go, hon.

Obviously you have never been to Israel if you believe that Apartheid List. It would be like me calling every Arab country a shithole when I've never visited an Arab country.

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about

The indigenous have a right to not allow people to come in

Germans haven't historically let Turks assimilate

That's German land though

Not a bunch of Jews creating a settler state on Palestinian land

Ignorant bastard

You are human filth