AP: Obama expects support for more Afghanistan troops

[American Horse]

American Horse - I respect and appreciate your postion and your input. But I have to disagree with a couple of the points you made.

Quote: “You say that the AQ in Afghanistan are the same people who fled from Iraq. But intelligence just doesn't support that. Saddam (who ran a secular tyranny) was enemies with Al Qaeda (who supported a Islamic tyranny) and not only is there no evidence to support any collusion - there is ample evidence to support that Al Qaeda had no presence in Iraq until AFTER we invaded. And then it was only recruiters who found a receptive audience BECAUSE we invaded.”

No one would deny that the impetus for the fighting in Iraq for the past several years has come from Al Qaeda. I didn’t say they were there beforehand but they came and we wasted them.

“Add to that the widely-held belief that there are now fewer than 100 AQ in Afghanistan and I think your point disintergrates.”

There may be only a hundred but I read in the WSJ (paper edition a few weeks ago) that ithe Taliban in Afghanistan can no longer tell their own from AQ because of the ongoing infiltation.

“Also, the fact that the Taliban offered up Bin Laden and the fact that they have booted AQ out of Afghanistan and your objective of preventing future cooperation between the two groups is - imho - already achieved.”

My position doesn’t foreclose the fact that the Taliban aren’t the worse of the worse. If they support a government, even become part of the government; no problem. And "co-operation is not the question; as I mentioned above infiltration is the the more acute problem

“I shy away from using terms like "winning" or "losing" because they are so often ill-defined imho. I think they encourage a highly romanticized but incredibly vague perspective on the issue of war. I prefer to talk about naming an objective and weighing whether or not objectives have been met or not.”

I steered away from the word "winning" and instead paraphrased Bush's prescription for not returning to the status-quo-ante. We know that first and foremost that was his goal; probably why he accepted a flawed government there concluding it wouild evolve because it would be the only option for its survival. That is the alternative to leaving a rogue state behind, which would be a loss,for which we and the region would pay a dear price.

“I do agree with your point about the need for international cooperation if we are to continue this fight and I am encouraged that the current adminstration has achieved a lot more in that regard than the previous one. But I still disagree with the decision to allow this "mission creep” ."

“I don't mean to be offense and I really hope I haven't been. But that's my opinion.”

No offense taken, just an honest exchange of opinions ....

 

[Polk]

Once again, Obama ran his campaign on refocusing on Afghanistan. He is doing what he said he was going to do. Outside the far left anti-any war loons and the far right isolationists I don't recall people calling A-Stan the wrong, illegal, etc.

It was always "Iraq, Iraq, Iraq"

Damn facts getting in the way of a good rant.

 

[xsited1]

Obama expects support for more Afghanistan troops
TBO.com - News From AP

...

It should probably read, "Obama thinks there will be more support for Afghanistan troops, but he doesn't give a crap what the majority of Americans think so it doesn't matter."

 

[mal]

You misunderstand what I meant about The Patriot Act and GITMO ... I didn't say that both sides flipped positions on both of those issues. I said the left is treating The Patriot Act and GITMO like the right treated Bush's out of control spending and expansion of the gov't. There's a difference.

Please, don't tell me that the right hasn't changed their tune about the war since "their guy" left office. Back when Bush was POTUS people were viciously attacked and labeled all sorts of ugly things for merely criticizing Bush's war policy. Nowadays the POTUS is wide open to attacks on war policy and it's the same people who were calling people traitors who are the loudest mouths in the room when it comes to Obama's war policy.

Sarah Palin is never going to POTUS.

Look man, I didn't hear a whole mess of clamoring from the the GOP senators and congressmen attacking Bush. You can pull out an example or two to puff your argument but that's about it. The fact is the while Bush had control of both Houses he didn't use his veto pen one single time so let's not pretend that the GOP and the right are honest players here and the Dems are evil. The fact is that the VAST majority of the GOP didn't open their mouths. It took years before some senators started to break from Bush on Iraq.

It seems to me like you want to the left to treat Obama's A-Stan's war policy like they did Bush's Iraq policy. That's just not gonna happen. They supported A-Stan and not Iraq during the Bush presidency. If Obama doesn't get out of Iraq next summer and the Dems in Congress dont get loud about it then you will have a point I can get behind. Until then you're trying to compare apples to oranges in my view.

Some have... Or stay Silent. I Certainly am not a Party Homer...

I have Taken it's Hood Ornament, Ronnie to Task for YEARS while the "Conservative" Talking Heads Praise him like a God.

Political Realities on Issues like Spending are a FAR Cry from "War Crimes" to, "Whatever"...

Get it?...



peace...

 

[mal]

Once again, Obama ran his campaign on refocusing on Afghanistan. He is doing what he said he was going to do. Outside the far left anti-any war loons and the far right isolationists I don't recall people calling A-Stan the wrong, illegal, etc.

It was always "Iraq, Iraq, Iraq"

Damn facts getting in the way of a good rant.

Wrong... It was both... Iraq was Louder because of the Incorrect Perceptions that:

1.) The Joint Authorization for Force in Iraq only Read: "WMD, WMD, WMD!"

^Ignorant of FACTS, those People were/are.

2.) On the Issue of WMD, there were, and some were Found and others are Missing.

Iraq was an Easier Target for the Left to Complain about for a Number of Reasons...

But those same Leftists were the ones Claiming that Saddam had Nukes themselves, so they are either Ignorant of Fact or Filthy Fucking Liars...

Some are Dead Filthy Fucking Liars now, but that Group, Alive and Dead included, but was/is NOT Limited to:

J. Forbes Kerry.

Tedward Kennedy.

Backstabber Murtha.

HILLARY!.

HILLARY!'s Husband.

Should I Continue?...



peace...

 

[PatekPhilippe]

At any case, imho it is not worth the additional casualties and expense to chase this objective since it is so unlikely to be met anyway.

Interesting thought...do you think Bush had the same idea when he made is famous "I'm not worried about bin Laden.." statement in 2002?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

at any rate...how can one run a poll on how many troops are necessary in Afghanistan when the President and his moron war council STILL has no clear strategy in that country.

For all we know we may need 100,000 to accomplish whatever goals Obama decides we need to get done.

 

[mal]

at any rate...how can one run a poll on how many troops are necessary in Afghanistan when the President and his moron war council STILL has no clear strategy in that country.

For all we know we may need 100,000 to accomplish whatever goals Obama decides we need to get done.

I didn't put that Poll in this Thread when I Posted it... Someone else did.



peace...

 

[saveliberty]

His time table is up to ten years. The objectives are exactly the same as Bush's. We had to wait how long for this decision? The war is a loser and so is Obama.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

at any rate...how can one run a poll on how many troops are necessary in Afghanistan when the President and his moron war council STILL has no clear strategy in that country.

For all we know we may need 100,000 to accomplish whatever goals Obama decides we need to get done.

I didn't put that Poll in this Thread when I Posted it... Someone else did.



peace...

I know...I've been following this thread from the beginning..that's why I said "one". I didn't know you could post polls in other people's threads.

 

[mal]

at any rate...how can one run a poll on how many troops are necessary in Afghanistan when the President and his moron war council STILL has no clear strategy in that country.

For all we know we may need 100,000 to accomplish whatever goals Obama decides we need to get done.

I didn't put that Poll in this Thread when I Posted it... Someone else did.



peace...

I know...I've been following this thread from the beginning..that's why I said "one". I didn't know you could post polls in other people's threads.

I will Assume that A15 did it... He's got the POWER!...



peace...

 

[Polk]

Once again, Obama ran his campaign on refocusing on Afghanistan. He is doing what he said he was going to do. Outside the far left anti-any war loons and the far right isolationists I don't recall people calling A-Stan the wrong, illegal, etc.

It was always "Iraq, Iraq, Iraq"

Damn facts getting in the way of a good rant.

Wrong... It was both... Iraq was Louder because of the Incorrect Perceptions that:

1.) The Joint Authorization for Force in Iraq only Read: "WMD, WMD, WMD!"

^Ignorant of FACTS, those People were/are.

2.) On the Issue of WMD, there were, and some were Found and others are Missing.

Iraq was an Easier Target for the Left to Complain about for a Number of Reasons...

But those same Leftists were the ones Claiming that Saddam had Nukes themselves, so they are either Ignorant of Fact or Filthy Fucking Liars...

Some are Dead Filthy Fucking Liars now, but that Group, Alive and Dead included, but was/is NOT Limited to:

J. Forbes Kerry.

Tedward Kennedy.

Backstabber Murtha.

HILLARY!.

HILLARY!'s Husband.

Should I Continue?...



peace...

WMD was always the stated reason for the invasion. To claim after the fact that it was actually some noble humanitarian mission is complete and utter bullshit. Also, no actual WMD were found. All that were found was some traces of chemicals from before the first invasion.

 

[nodoginnafight]

at any rate...how can one run a poll on how many troops are necessary in Afghanistan when the President and his moron war council STILL has no clear strategy in that country.

For all we know we may need 100,000 to accomplish whatever goals Obama decides we need to get done.

I didn't put that Poll in this Thread when I Posted it... Someone else did.



peace...

The poll came from me - I started a seperate thread with it. It appears our threads were merged or something by the powers that be and I don't particularly appreciate it, because they were in two different directions.

 

[mal]

Damn facts getting in the way of a good rant.

Wrong... It was both... Iraq was Louder because of the Incorrect Perceptions that:

1.) The Joint Authorization for Force in Iraq only Read: "WMD, WMD, WMD!"

^Ignorant of FACTS, those People were/are.

2.) On the Issue of WMD, there were, and some were Found and others are Missing.

Iraq was an Easier Target for the Left to Complain about for a Number of Reasons...

But those same Leftists were the ones Claiming that Saddam had Nukes themselves, so they are either Ignorant of Fact or Filthy Fucking Liars...

Some are Dead Filthy Fucking Liars now, but that Group, Alive and Dead included, but was/is NOT Limited to:

J. Forbes Kerry.

Tedward Kennedy.

Backstabber Murtha.

HILLARY!.

HILLARY!'s Husband.

Should I Continue?...



peace...

WMD was always the stated reason for the invasion. To claim after the fact that it was actually some noble humanitarian mission is complete and utter bullshit. Also, no actual WMD were found. All that were found was some traces of chemicals from before the first invasion.

Yes they were... And your Deliberate Ignorance or Dishonesty about the Joint Authorization is NOT my Problem...

As for the 109 Facilities there WMD was MISSING from... Be Willfully Ignorant of that also.



peace...

 

[Polk]

Wrong... It was both... Iraq was Louder because of the Incorrect Perceptions that:

1.) The Joint Authorization for Force in Iraq only Read: "WMD, WMD, WMD!"

^Ignorant of FACTS, those People were/are.

2.) On the Issue of WMD, there were, and some were Found and others are Missing.

Iraq was an Easier Target for the Left to Complain about for a Number of Reasons...

But those same Leftists were the ones Claiming that Saddam had Nukes themselves, so they are either Ignorant of Fact or Filthy Fucking Liars...

Some are Dead Filthy Fucking Liars now, but that Group, Alive and Dead included, but was/is NOT Limited to:

J. Forbes Kerry.

Tedward Kennedy.

Backstabber Murtha.

HILLARY!.

HILLARY!'s Husband.

Should I Continue?...



peace...

WMD was always the stated reason for the invasion. To claim after the fact that it was actually some noble humanitarian mission is complete and utter bullshit. Also, no actual WMD were found. All that were found was some traces of chemicals from before the first invasion.

Yes they were... And your Deliberate Ignorance or Dishonesty about the Joint Authorization is NOT my Problem...

As for the 109 Facilities there WMD was MISSING from... Be Willfully Ignorant of that also.



peace...

WMDs were never founded, which is why you guys started going into nutty conspiracy theories about them being shipped to Syria.

And yes, other items were listed in the authorization. That does not mean we went to war for those reasons.

 

[Polk]

Or do you really believe that we invade every state that brutally represses its people?

 

[nodoginnafight]

No tears for Saddam here. He deserved to get slapped. But we had bigger fish to fry at the time. Americans were resolved to dole out some justice on those who commited the 9/11 crimes. In spite of efforts to link the two - Iraq had nothing to do with that one.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

He'll do exactly what i predicted he would do. He will approve a small increase in troop levels to try and please those in the Military who think he has blown it in Afghanistan so far. It will not be the amount that was requested though. It will also be an attempt to please the Left Wing Loons in his party who don't want any increase in troop levels. Basically it will be a sad Half-Measure that will not lead to a Victory in Afghanistan. This President has been shameful when it comes to helping our kids out over there. This Half-Measure is just too little too late. It's very sad.

 

[mal]

WMD was always the stated reason for the invasion. To claim after the fact that it was actually some noble humanitarian mission is complete and utter bullshit. Also, no actual WMD were found. All that were found was some traces of chemicals from before the first invasion.

Yes they were... And your Deliberate Ignorance or Dishonesty about the Joint Authorization is NOT my Problem...

As for the 109 Facilities there WMD was MISSING from... Be Willfully Ignorant of that also.



peace...

WMDs were never founded, which is why you guys started going into nutty conspiracy theories about them being shipped to Syria.

And yes, other items were listed in the authorization. That does not mean we went to war for those reasons.

Some WMD was Found... There were 109 Facilities that were Sealed and Documented by the UN just Prior to our Invasion that had WMD and Banned Long Range Missiles in them...

Those were Empty when we got to them.

Missing is the Key and Accurate Word.



peace...

 

[mal]

Or do you really believe that we invade every state that brutally represses its people?

^Absurd...



peace...