doniston
Member
- Mar 6, 2007
- 874
- 31
- 16
No arguement there. but I thought we were discussing people, not grass, and how did we get from palastine to Lebanon???
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anti-israel sentiment of the democratic party, and why i cant support them.
- Thread starter actsnoblemartin
- Start date
- Banned
- #42
- Banned
- #43
how did we get from palastine to Lebanon???
drive north a few clicks.
Shogun, thanks for the reply. I have to wonder about a couple things, though.
First thing I noticed was that you called the article I asked you to read for the sake of me not having to type so much (I slept through typing class twice, and my lousy habits prove that! LOL!) "cherished" and I don't believe I called it as such. I'm thinking that it is not your personal opinion of the article, so I will have to assume that you are attempting to be either sarcastic or condescending. I have noticed a condescending attitude here on this board before. Makes me wonder if people actually want new blood here or if they prefer an inbred environment. Still, I will assume this is merely a quality in you that I will eventually find endearing.
I noticed that your writings on the turn of the last century "Palestine" is missing a few points and has other, less than factual points, added.
First, let me start with the very name, "Palestinian" as it is commonly meant to refer to the Arabs living in the region. Fact of the matter is this was a creation of Yasser Arafat for political reasons. It makes it sound as if they are some sort of indigenous people who have in the past had some sort of country and government in the region. This is not true. First, back in, say, 1915 (picked it out of the air, don't get hung up on the year), had you called an Arab wandering through the region a "Palestinian" he would have taken it as an offense as the Jews of the region were generally considered to be Palestinians. The Arabs of the region weren't organized, had no government, lived in squalid conditions when they did live in permanent homes and did little to improve the land or their conditions. Raids on neighboring communities were not unheard of for financial gain. The condition of Palestine (a name for the region that is a variation of the renaming by Rome in the attempts to erase the Jew's history and memory of the area in response to the Jewish rebellion to Roman rule) has been recorded by those seeing it first hand. Here is from The Report of the Palestine Royal Commision, an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913:
The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts...no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]....Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen....The ploughs used were of wood....The yields were very poor....The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist....The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert....The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.
There are other quotes one can find, but one is enough to paint the picture.
Now, keep in mind that at no time was there NOT a Jewish presence in Zion, and never did the Jews do anything but want to come back home. That is to say, the land had been forcefully taken from them on more than one occasion but never did they give up claim.
When the Jews began coming home, they brought with them not only the knowledge but the desire to turn what varied from a desert wasteland to malarial swamps into beautiful, cultivated land. It was they who created the bread basket that today provides Europe with not only flowers and oranges but also otehr fruits and vegetable. Between the farms and the industries, everyone and not just the Jews benefited.
You make mention of the fighting between the Arabs and the Jews, but you fail to make mention of the instigators, the lies and the pogroms carried out against the Jews. While it would be insane to suggest the Jews didn't strike back, it would be equally insane or dishonest to not acknowledge that the strife was created by the Arabs. It was these pogroms that caused the partitioning, and, if you look at what was originally promised to the Jews and what was eventually allocated to them, a sliver of land that was barely contigious and would be declared non-defendable by anybody else, you'd have to admit that these people got the short end of the stick. Consider also, that while no Jew was allowed to live in Transjordan, the Jews did not receive a piece of dirt that they could call all their own. Even so, they accepted the agreement as is.
Your assertion that the War of Independence was in response to rapes, murders and land-stealing on the part of the Jews is not only false, it is a total lie, whether you believe you created it or whether you are simply passing on a lie not knowing it is one. Your claims of murders and rapes go untold in history, never have they been claimed before. The rapes is more than laughable as a Jewish man would NOT have done that with a goy. The assertion that the land was stolen is false as well, unless you figure that purchasing land at fair value from non-residing land owners and ONLY "fellahs" who are no longer living on or working the land to be "stealing". The attack on the tiny Jewish state by the Arab world occured because they would not tolerate a Jewish nation in their midst. Period.
In regard to you being Athiest, that is your choice, and that choice is due to your G-d given free will. This being the case, though, you will have difficulty in quoting from the Bible and making sense out of it, so you might want to not attempt it much. You claim that my head is in a dark place. I noticed several personal and angry attacks in your responses even though I have made it a point to show respect and courtesy to you. I could just as easily point out that your head must be somewhere other than squarely on your shoulders if you claim to have read Revelation and not see prophesy in the fulfilling as it is happening today. Of course, to get a clear understanding you'd need to read and understand Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Matthew at the minimum, but if you did you'd have a different frame of mind about the whole "fairy tale" in general, so I really don't expect you to do so with that less than open mind and not so loving heart you seem to be laboring with. This being the case, I'm not even going to bother returning scripture quote with accurate scripture quote. There is another scripture verse in the "fairy tale" that says something about throwing pearls to swine, or something like that; I think this is a good time to practice that piece of divine advice.
I was really hoping that you were going to shed some light on something that I have previously missed, but you haven't. At least you didn't throw the myth of Deir Yassin at me; thanks for at least not being that insulting!
Thanks for your time!
First thing I noticed was that you called the article I asked you to read for the sake of me not having to type so much (I slept through typing class twice, and my lousy habits prove that! LOL!) "cherished" and I don't believe I called it as such. I'm thinking that it is not your personal opinion of the article, so I will have to assume that you are attempting to be either sarcastic or condescending. I have noticed a condescending attitude here on this board before. Makes me wonder if people actually want new blood here or if they prefer an inbred environment. Still, I will assume this is merely a quality in you that I will eventually find endearing.
I noticed that your writings on the turn of the last century "Palestine" is missing a few points and has other, less than factual points, added.
First, let me start with the very name, "Palestinian" as it is commonly meant to refer to the Arabs living in the region. Fact of the matter is this was a creation of Yasser Arafat for political reasons. It makes it sound as if they are some sort of indigenous people who have in the past had some sort of country and government in the region. This is not true. First, back in, say, 1915 (picked it out of the air, don't get hung up on the year), had you called an Arab wandering through the region a "Palestinian" he would have taken it as an offense as the Jews of the region were generally considered to be Palestinians. The Arabs of the region weren't organized, had no government, lived in squalid conditions when they did live in permanent homes and did little to improve the land or their conditions. Raids on neighboring communities were not unheard of for financial gain. The condition of Palestine (a name for the region that is a variation of the renaming by Rome in the attempts to erase the Jew's history and memory of the area in response to the Jewish rebellion to Roman rule) has been recorded by those seeing it first hand. Here is from The Report of the Palestine Royal Commision, an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913:
The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts...no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]....Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen....The ploughs used were of wood....The yields were very poor....The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist....The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert....The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.
There are other quotes one can find, but one is enough to paint the picture.
Now, keep in mind that at no time was there NOT a Jewish presence in Zion, and never did the Jews do anything but want to come back home. That is to say, the land had been forcefully taken from them on more than one occasion but never did they give up claim.
When the Jews began coming home, they brought with them not only the knowledge but the desire to turn what varied from a desert wasteland to malarial swamps into beautiful, cultivated land. It was they who created the bread basket that today provides Europe with not only flowers and oranges but also otehr fruits and vegetable. Between the farms and the industries, everyone and not just the Jews benefited.
You make mention of the fighting between the Arabs and the Jews, but you fail to make mention of the instigators, the lies and the pogroms carried out against the Jews. While it would be insane to suggest the Jews didn't strike back, it would be equally insane or dishonest to not acknowledge that the strife was created by the Arabs. It was these pogroms that caused the partitioning, and, if you look at what was originally promised to the Jews and what was eventually allocated to them, a sliver of land that was barely contigious and would be declared non-defendable by anybody else, you'd have to admit that these people got the short end of the stick. Consider also, that while no Jew was allowed to live in Transjordan, the Jews did not receive a piece of dirt that they could call all their own. Even so, they accepted the agreement as is.
Your assertion that the War of Independence was in response to rapes, murders and land-stealing on the part of the Jews is not only false, it is a total lie, whether you believe you created it or whether you are simply passing on a lie not knowing it is one. Your claims of murders and rapes go untold in history, never have they been claimed before. The rapes is more than laughable as a Jewish man would NOT have done that with a goy. The assertion that the land was stolen is false as well, unless you figure that purchasing land at fair value from non-residing land owners and ONLY "fellahs" who are no longer living on or working the land to be "stealing". The attack on the tiny Jewish state by the Arab world occured because they would not tolerate a Jewish nation in their midst. Period.
In regard to you being Athiest, that is your choice, and that choice is due to your G-d given free will. This being the case, though, you will have difficulty in quoting from the Bible and making sense out of it, so you might want to not attempt it much. You claim that my head is in a dark place. I noticed several personal and angry attacks in your responses even though I have made it a point to show respect and courtesy to you. I could just as easily point out that your head must be somewhere other than squarely on your shoulders if you claim to have read Revelation and not see prophesy in the fulfilling as it is happening today. Of course, to get a clear understanding you'd need to read and understand Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Matthew at the minimum, but if you did you'd have a different frame of mind about the whole "fairy tale" in general, so I really don't expect you to do so with that less than open mind and not so loving heart you seem to be laboring with. This being the case, I'm not even going to bother returning scripture quote with accurate scripture quote. There is another scripture verse in the "fairy tale" that says something about throwing pearls to swine, or something like that; I think this is a good time to practice that piece of divine advice.
I was really hoping that you were going to shed some light on something that I have previously missed, but you haven't. At least you didn't throw the myth of Deir Yassin at me; thanks for at least not being that insulting!
Thanks for your time!
drive north a few clicks.
I'm glad I wasn't drinking or eating anything just then; that deadpan humor was awesome! 
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you are aware, are you not, that prior to 1948, a great deal of the land in Israel was legitimately purchased by Jews? You are aware that the neighboring arab states set about to drive all Jews into the sea and would have blithely ignored Jewish property rights had they won?
I personally know a wonderful Israeli woman - Adina Hay Nissan (who actually was the Irgun member who called the King David Hotel 45 minutes before the bomb blast but that is beside the point) whose father had purchased land in the Galillee in the early 30's and was a farmer. And their neighbor was a palestinian arab farmer. The two men helped one another gather their crops... their children played together. A few days before the partitioning, the arab farmer came over to the Hay's home and told Adina's father that, unfortunately, he was taking his family for a brief stay in Damascus while the pan arab army disposed of all the Jews and kicked them all out of Palestine. When they were done, he and his family would return and he intended to assume ownership of the Hay farm.... no hard feelings.
The arab neighbor's family is still in Damascus and the Hay family farm is twice as big as it once was.
Fight a war. Lose a war. Suffer the consequences. Whiners.
and the Louisiana Purchase was a transaction with the FRENCH... so what. Do you think that the Natives in the entire midwest all just said SHUCKS and started packing their shit when word came around that the FRENCH sold the land they were on?
gimme a fucking break, dude.
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Rabin died because there are extremists in Israel, too. I would never say otherwise. I don't blindly support them like you seem to the Palestinian terrorists.
I also think the verbiage you used is kind of rude and unnecessary, particularly given that you didn't refute a single fact I stated.
Moreover, Israel never belonged to Palestinians. It was of nebulous ownership with NO COUNTRY flying a flag.
Good attempt at propaganda, though.
oh I know, Jillian.. and just because the Natives didnt wear shoes or have a written language they probably shouldn't have counted either too, eh?
Im glad you could take a break from the regular israel talking point and admit that a JEW KILLED RABIN BECAUSE HE TRIED FOR PEACE WITH A PAL. I've NEVER seen you admit to extemism on the jewish side. ONLY pals and rockets and blah blah blah. ONLY poor jews who only want peace blah blah blah. Well, Rabin's death suggests otherwise. As much as it must pain you to admit Israel is not innocent in this conflict. You can rationalize with the best nazi sympathizer but, agian, your eternal vigil for Israel is nothing more than your version of preserving a master race where your version of gays, gypsies and jews are muslim.
Indeed, it takes a flag to make the homeland of people living on a piece of land for hundreds of years legitimate.. Holy Shit.. We'd better make sure NewZealand has a national anthem and a state bird or it might not qualify as an indegenous population! Hell, I could probably sell half of that island nation to my friends for a couple grand and expect everyone living to there get the fuck out while I conjure up some burning bush fairy tale that will tickle some christian military power into forcing them to leave or validate the violence and themarginalization.... I mean, if they don't have wireless high speed internet then they may just not count as a nation of people worth considering!
Damn.. just think of all those African nations we can go plant a flag at and claim in the name of a burning bush, Jillian! Hell, If etheopia isn't a lush garden paradise by now then SURELY we can rationalize the marginalization of Etheopians who probably dont read or wear shoes anyway! I wonder if FRANCE will sell me any land there....
If you don't like my vocab then so be it. It makes my point about the automatic dismissal of concern for anything not jewish by those of your instant blind israel worhipping caliber. If it chaffes you that much you might consider that it's probably because it's a true observation. I sure don't see you bringing up Rabin stories EVER. EVER, jillian.
Ill say it again.. History didnt begin in 1948 and no amount of Andrew Jackson solutions to jewish favoratism will make the zionist treatment of pals less than the modern manifest destiny that it is. If you can rationalize this one you must be able to rationalize the one that has all but wiped out the Natives of North America. I hope your burning bush is worth it. Lord knows that the only good Pal is a dead one, eh?
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Yes. We WERE talking about Jews. And I, too, find it interesting that you couldn't say you have nothing against us. You said Arabs are "semites, too" as a response to being called anti-semitic. This is a tactic I've often heard from people who try to pretend they AREN'T averse to Jews. You know full well what is meant when people use the term anti-semitic. Clearly you DO have something against Jews unless of course they aren't self-determining. Then you can pretend we're kind of like the old minstrel show kind of thing... there for your entertainment or derision. Hell with us when we fight back, though... huh? I am unapologetic about Jews never allowing anyone else to murder us again... whether those murderers are Palestinian terrorists or anyone else.
I love when people try to weaken the meaning of words by usurping them for other things which are not comparable. Only the holocaust was The Holocaust. Hatred for Jews is Anti-Semitism. Nazis were nazis. Let's keep the terms straight, k?
riiight, Jillian.. because ONLY JEWS have ever been treated like shit by a majority population!
For real!
the only people to ever be slaves were black too!
thats GOTTA be true!
If you want to marginalize then you can BE marginalized. You dont feel sorry for a helpless nazi so, when you don their same mentality towards another ethnic group for the sake of racially purification of Israel, then guess what role you step right into..
Rationalize what you will. Blond Haired, blue eyed germans did the same thing.
Diuretic
Permanently confused
Does Israel own US foreign policy in the Middle East? Or does that credit go to the House of Saud? Or both?
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got a non-nazi link that would support your 4% number?
I got one:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_zionists_land.php
and like I said before:
Fight a war. Lose a war. Suffer the consequences.
It would be like all the American indian tribes forming an alliance with the goal of driving the pilgrims back into the atlantic.... and losing.
reservations...refugee camps.... six of one, half a dozen of the other. Losers.
Are you fucking kidding me? So, might makes right, eh dude? Superior weapons sure are the hallmark of justice, lemme tellya.
pathetic.
I hope none of you silly bastards otherwise claim to be lefty humanitarians. Your disregard for Pals would be laughable if it were not so sad.
can you provide a source for that stat or can I pull some numbers out of my ass too?
I can, but this board won't let me until I get a few posts under my belt.
Trust me it will come. 
you can label me a jew hating antisemite if it is easier than wrapping your brain around the same reaction that the Natives of our own country displayed. It sure wouldn't be the first time a zionist shrugged off your version of a "******-lover"
So, what, exactly, does a growing pal population have to do with state based marginalization based on ethnicity again? did the population of blacks also increase while slavery was rampant in the south?
Let's put it THIS way.. if America were to treat its jews like Israel treats its pals you would be screaming nazi every other word.
Again, I invite you to go find a native on a reservation and share your logic about the CREATION of israel regardless of the indegenous population. Ill tell you like I tell Jillian... History didn't begin in 1948. Write them off all you want to but America would react the SAME WAY as the pals if Atzlan all of a sudden sprung up in the Southwest on the legend of a burning bush.
The Pals are not part of Israel. The Oslo Accords was to get them 98% of what they wanted and they would have had a free state of their own. Instead they went on a holy war. If the Pals ever really were rational on some issues they would have a free independent country and a tourist host spot.
Also measures have be taken to protect the public and that is what Israel is doing. Israeli Arabs hate the country they have citizenship in. They wish for its destruction. Yet the are no government barriers to jobs. They have voting rights. Israeli Arabs are legislators, government works and judges. There is even an Arab on the high court of Israel. Arabs get full protection of the law (can't say the same about Jews or Christians or Arabs for that matter in Iran). It is a fallacy that Israeli Arabs don't live well inside Israel.
Well, this one ain't. I have nothing against Arabs. (they are semites too.)
Funny guy!
At the present time anti-semitism only extends to JEWS, so your comment is foolish and demostrates the mask that I was talking about. Bravo
but at least remind me why Rabin died before telling us why the only good injun is a dead injun.
He was killed by a radical that a large portion of the Jewish Israelis didn't support!
you are aware, are you not, that prior to 1948, a great deal of the land in Israel was legitimately purchased by Jews? You are aware that the neighboring arab states set about to drive all Jews into the sea and would have blithely ignored Jewish property rights had they won?
I personally know a wonderful Israeli woman - Adina Hay Nissan (who actually was the Irgun member who called the King David Hotel 45 minutes before the bomb blast but that is beside the point) whose father had purchased land in the Galillee in the early 30's and was a farmer. And their neighbor was a palestinian arab farmer. The two men helped one another gather their crops... their children played together. A few days before the partitioning, the arab farmer came over to the Hay's home and told Adina's father that, unfortunately, he was taking his family for a brief stay in Damascus while the pan arab army disposed of all the Jews and kicked them all out of Palestine. When they were done, he and his family would return and he intended to assume ownership of the Hay farm.... no hard feelings.
The arab neighbor's family is still in Damascus and the Hay family farm is twice as big as it once was.
Fight a war. Lose a war. Suffer the consequences. Whiners.
Well put!
When you talk about discrimination consider this. Israel is the most diverse country of in the M.E. They have a larger Muslim population percentage wise than Iran, Syria, S.A., Paletinian Terrirtories etc. have non-Jews.
Iran:
Syria:
Demographics of Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Saudi Arabia:
Jordan:
Demographics of Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Egypt:
Demographics of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Diversitywise none of these country's can hold a candle Israel. You can dismiss it all you want put the proof is in the pudding.
West Bank:
Israel:
Let's see Palestine basically all Sunni Muslim, Israel majority Jewish, but 1/4 of the population isn't Jewish!
Iran:
Demography of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia98% Muslim (Shia 89%, Sunni 9%)
Wow how diverse/
Syria:
Man the Syrians really know how to mix it up90% Muslim, 10% Christian
90% Arab, 5% Kurd 5% Other
Demographics of Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Saudi Arabia:
Man SA is the model of diversity.99.7% Muslim (97% Sunni 3% Shia)
90% Arab 10% Other
Jordan:
Man weren't they one of the moderate Arab countries?98% Arab
Sunni Muslim 92%
Shia 2%
Christians 6%
Demographics of Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Egypt:
God, another model of diversity LOL97% Arab
90% Sunni Muslim 10% Christian
Demographics of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Diversitywise none of these country's can hold a candle Israel. You can dismiss it all you want put the proof is in the pudding.
West Bank:
Gaza:92% Sunni Arabs, 8% Chris
Now that is diversity. Not only is there really just one sec of one religion, there is really only one type of people (Arabs)98.7% Sunni Arab, 0.7% Christian and 0.6% other
Israel:
76% Jews
16.3% Muslim
2.1% Christians
1.7% Druze
3.9% Unaffiliated
22% from Europe and America
10% Asia and Africa
20% Arab Israelis --> Most are Muslim
Let's see Palestine basically all Sunni Muslim, Israel majority Jewish, but 1/4 of the population isn't Jewish!
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"Shogun, thanks for the reply. I have to wonder about a couple things, though.
First thing I noticed was that you called the article I asked you to read for the sake of me not having to type so much (I slept through typing class twice, and my lousy habits prove that! LOL!) "cherished" and I don't believe I called it as such. I'm thinking that it is not your personal opinion of the article, so I will have to assume that you are attempting to be either sarcastic or condescending. I have noticed a condescending attitude here on this board before. Makes me wonder if people actually want new blood here or if they prefer an inbred environment. Still, I will assume this is merely a quality in you that I will eventually find endearing."
You MUST be new to the whole messageboard thing. I'm glad I edited my own post and retracted some of the teethier comments I made or you might really have been bent out of shape. I hope you discover that www.usmessageboard.com is a bastion of neutral opinions and feathery vocab but it's gonna take a whole lot of blocking to get there. I hear that 80% of communication is lost in the net due to the flat nature of emotionless expression. You might lose the devilish smile and challenging gleem in my eye if the same conversation is held here rather than over a couple scotch and wtaers. Alas, such is the nature of messageboard interaction.
"I noticed that your writings on the turn of the last century "Palestine" is missing a few points and has other, less than factual points, added.
First, let me start with the very name, "Palestinian" as it is commonly meant to refer to the Arabs living in the region. Fact of the matter is this was a creation of Yasser Arafat for political reasons. It makes it sound as if they are some sort of indigenous people who have in the past had some sort of country and government in the region. This is not true. First, back in, say, 1915 (picked it out of the air, don't get hung up on the year), had you called an Arab wandering through the region a "Palestinian" he would have taken it as an offense as the Jews of the region were generally considered to be Palestinians."
sir, you can pretend that the land was a vacuum of total emptiness when Israel was created but it's gonna take a lot of rewriting of history to make people forget that there were human beings on the land before the jews decided to carve out a nation. I don't care if you get stuck in the nomenclature of a common identity. Hell, the THOUSANDS of North American tribes didnt fall under a common flag either.. does that make their claim to the land they were living on any less valid? Can you AT THE VERY LEAST ignore the nomenclature and admit that in fact there were already people living on the land who were simply kicked the fuck off of it so the jews could create a nation? So, by your logic then I guess Rome had every right to totally conquer the Germanic tribes of Europe and the UK? Cortez had every right to CLAIM the gold in America for spain? I don't care if you think the pals dont count then or now; the Germans should not have been allowed to treat the jews the way it did and so, too, should Israel not be allowed to treat the pals like they ARE for the sake of some rationalized excuse about nomenclature. The FACT remains that there were people there before Israel was created by europe. The FACT remains that no other group of people would react any differently to the external partition of their land. If the UN deci9ded to partition Israel so that the zoasterists could have a homeland then the jews in Israel would ract JUST LIKE the pals have, just like the Natives of N. America did, just like the Pegans reacted to Rome, and JUST LIKE THE US WOULD IF SOMEONE TRIED TO GIVE THE AMERICA SOUTHWEST TO CREATE ATZLAN etc etc.. This, sir, despite your nomenclature ruse, is why pals act the way they do. Until you can understand this you might as well be shrugging off the xylon B solution to jews who chose not to leave Germany.
"The Arabs of the region weren't organized, had no government, lived in squalid conditions when they did live in permanent homes and did little to improve the land or their conditions. Raids on neighboring communities were not unheard of for financial gain."
You just decribed THOUSANDS OF YEARS of Native culture in pre-reservation history. I hope you can see the correlation and travesty you allow while making such a silly excuse for concuering a people for their land.
"The condition of Palestine (a name for the region that is a variation of the renaming by Rome in the attempts to erase the Jew's history and memory of the area in response to the Jewish rebellion to Roman rule) has been recorded by those seeing it first hand. Here is from The Report of the Palestine Royal Commision, an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913:
The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts...no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]....Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen....The ploughs used were of wood....The yields were very poor....The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist....The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert....The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.
There are other quotes one can find, but one is enough to paint the picture.
One quote? No, lets exchange a few quotes together, shall we?
Meir Dizengoff
"How can Jews, who demand emancipation in Russia, rob rights and act selfishly toward other workers upon coming to Eretz Israel? If it is possible for many a people to hide fairness and justice behind cannon smoke, how and behind what shall we hide fairness and justice? We should absolutely not deceive ourselves with terrible visions. We shall never possess cannons, even if the goyim shall bear arms against one another for ever. Therefore, we cannot but settle in our land fairly and justly, to live and let live. " (Meir Dizengoff (writing as "Dromi") "The Workers Question," Hatzvi, September 21, 22, 1909)
Ironic, don't you think?
Yehoshua Hankin
" . . . . Had we desired to disregard the interests of such workers of the land as are dependent, directly or indirectly, upon lands of the landlords, we could have acquired large and unlimited areas, but in the course of our conversation I have pointed out to you that this has not been our policy and that, when acquiring lands, it is our ardent wish not to prejudice or do harm to the interests of anybody. We feel it our duty to settle the workers and enable them to continue their agricultural occupation, either in the same place or elsewhere. But we have the possibility of acquiring 100,000 dunams without having to make any settlement for the tenants, since the acquisition of such an area will not cause harm to anybody and will not oust anybody from his lands; only after this area has been acquired we shall have to see to a proper settlement for the tenants . . . ."
(Yehoshua Hankin concerning arrangements for Arabs displaced by the purchase of lands in the Jezreel valley. Letter of July 14, 1930, quoted by The Hope Simpson Report 1930 )
Oh, How the times they wre a changing, eh?
Chaim Weizmann
"There must not be one law for the Jew and another for the Arabs....In saying this, I do not assume that there are tendencies toward inequalirty or discrimination. It is merely a timely warning which is particularly necessary because we shall have a very large Arab minority. I am certain that the world will judge the Jewish State by what it will do with the Arabs, just as the Jewish people at large will be judged by what we do or fail to do in this state where we have been given such a wonderful opportunity after thousands of years of wandering and suffering." (Chaim Weizmann, Trial and Error, Page 566 - written in December 1947)
DAMN! This guy could see it in 1947 but YOU cannot! I wonder why that is..
David Ben Gurion
"They [our Arab Neighbors] in turn have much to give us, they are blessed with what we lack. Great territories, ample for themselves and their children's children, even if they are far more prolific than they are today. We do not covet their expanses nor will we penetrate them - for we shall fight to end Diaspora in Arab lands as fiercely as we fought to end it in Europe, we want to be assembled wholly in our own Land. But if this region is to expand to the full, there must be reciprocity, there can be mutual aid - economic, political and cultural - between Jew and Arab. That is the necessity which will prevail, and the daily fulminations of their leaders should not alarm us unduly - they do not echo the real interests of the Arab peoples. David Ben Gurion, Speech to the elected assembly of Palestinian Jews, October 2, 1947
Looks like SOMEONE was either full of shit or too near sighted in their projections...
http://www.zionism-israel.com/zionist_quotes.htm
Seems like SOME people of much repute thought that there was a legitimate concern for the Pals already on the land back then when there was no Israel... Yet, Here you are pretending that Pals appeared from out of nowhere in order to thwart poor jews from having their own nation. It's bullshit. We both know it even if only one of us will admit it.
"Now, keep in mind that at no time was there NOT a Jewish presence in Zion, and never did the Jews do anything but want to come back home. That is to say, the land had been forcefully taken from them on more than one occasion but never did they give up claim."
Dude, come on. and george washington chopped down a cherry tree and Ben Franklin flew a kite into a bolt of lightening. We ALL have nationalized hero fest stories that we think makes our personal history begger than it really is. If you REALLY want to consider the OT history of the Jews lets not forget how many lands were conquered then too.. Jericho.. Canaan.. We'd call that shit terrorism today. Sorry, I just don't sympathize with conquerers willing to sell their own shit as gold while making excuses for conquering. Since you brought up Jewish history let me share My Favorite OT moment:
Elisha and the She Bears
23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead! 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.
"When the Jews began coming home, they brought with them not only the knowledge but the desire to turn what varied from a desert wasteland to malarial swamps into beautiful, cultivated land. "
Oh yea.. and the Euros just wanted new settlements and GOLD in the new world! and they just wanted those savages to READ and WEAR SHOES! Westward Expansion just wanted prosperity despite whose land must be taken to achieve it! Spare me the self centered faux benevolence. This is the type of shit Rome used to rationalize everyone killed in the name of bringing culture to barbarian tribes.
"It was they who created the bread basket that today provides Europe with not only flowers and oranges but also otehr fruits and vegetable. Between the farms and the industries, everyone and not just the Jews benefited."
So, if I can only figure out a better use for the land then I can kick off everyone living in New York City? You are making blatant excuses for attrocities acted out in the name of a zionist motivation. Idont care how much you pat yourself on the back it still remains that your pet nation is no better now than when Andrew Jackson was creating the trail of tears. Sure sure, Oklahoma became prosporus beyond what the Natives made it so I guess the smallpox blankets and mass dislocation were all good things, eh? I mean, LOOK at the prosparity achieved by europeans on the same land that was going to waste while the natives lived there for THOUSANDS of years.. Hell, THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE A FLAG!
"You make mention of the fighting between the Arabs and the Jews, but you fail to make mention of the instigators,"
Id say a percieved invasion and being removed from your home is a pretty good place to start. Funny, You dont bat an eye condemning nazis for doing that kind fo thing but when talking about Israel....
"the lies and the pogroms carried out against the Jews. While it would be insane to suggest the Jews didn't strike back, it would be equally insane or dishonest to not acknowledge that the strife was created by the Arabs."
Arabs DEFENDING their right to remain in what they saw as their HOMELAND or Arabs who, because they are evil spawns of the devil, just want to wantonly kill jews? Say, humor me and take a guess:
If Israel were created in Texas rather than Palestive do you think Pals would still be out to kill Jews? Or would it be Texans? Seriously, just consider the answer to that question. Then, consider WHY that is the answer to the question.
"It was these pogroms that caused the partitioning, and, if you look at what was originally promised to the Jews"
promised by WHO, again? pals or EUROS? This is a significant point and the longer you ignore it the longer we all get to watch this bullshit conflict play out. Ill remind you of the Louisiana Purchase.
"and what was eventually allocated to them, a sliver of land that was barely contigious and would be declared non-defendable by anybody else, you'd have to admit that these people got the short end of the stick."
When being given free land to create a nation from the backs of the Pals? Gimme a break. jews are not guarenteed homeland any more than any other group of people are guarenteed a homeland. Ask a native American about that joke. SHORT END OF THE STICK? no, for a people who had nothing and no claim to anything beyond having christian buddies and a burning bush fairy tale no, they did not get the short end of the stick when being given other peoples property.
"Consider also, that while no Jew was allowed to live in Transjordan, the ews did not receive a piece of dirt that they could call all their own. Even so, they accepted the agreement as is."
And I hear buttons, beads and trinkets are worth an entire state of land..
"Your assertion that the War of Independence was in response to rapes, murders and land-stealing on the part of the Jews is not only false, it is a total lie, whether you believe you created it or whether you are simply passing on a lie not knowing it is one."
Did I ever use the word RAPE in any of my posts in this thread or are you playing an obvious game here? MURDER? quote me. PLEASE quote me. let's all watch how this standard reaction to criticism of Israel unfolds... Let's all take a gander at how you are about to line up the ole One-Two label machine punch. Ill save you the trouble, dude.. If you want to call me a jew hating anti-semite then go for it. Long ago I've stopped giving a damn about the opinons of people who always reach for the same gun in this debate. If your ability to cover this subject amounts to lining up the tired old trite shit of fabricating quotes and asserting that I hate jews then it is obvious that you are the same kind of spoke in the same type of wheel that allowed the nazis to flourish.
Again, QUOTE me using the word MURDER or RAPE.
"Your claims of murders and rapes go untold in history, never have they been claimed before. The rapes is more than laughable as a Jewish man would NOT have done that with a goy."
riiiiiiiiiight... just like a white man in the south would never rape a slave.... not that I brought up rape at all but your logic is generalized retardation. You can't speak for the millions of individual behaviours since 1948.. but feel free to try since it probably doesn't make it obvious to what degree you will go to insist in the benevolence of your master rac, er, jewish heritage.
"The assertion that the land was stolen is false as well, unless you figure that purchasing land at fair value from non-residing land owners and ONLY "fellahs" who are no longer living on or working the land to be "stealing". The attack on the tiny Jewish state by the Arab world occured because they would not tolerate a Jewish nation in their midst. Period."
Like I've already stated... Israel was not purchased from Arabs when Israel was created. It's about as valid to the indegenous population as Paying off France was in what would eventually become Missouri. Ignore that fact and pretend what you will. To the Natives, yes, it IS stealing. To me, Yes, it is Stealing. Jews and Arabs livbed together BEFORE the creation of Israel. Claiming that this conflict is just a matter of Arabs not wanting to live around jews is not only lame as hell but clearly conveys your lack of historic objectivity and, frankly, how ethnocentric you are in light of the humanity that gets to eat shit so that you can worship Israel. Sad that the state of your people has come to this level of rationalized hatred towards non-jews. Aparthied walls and transparent excuses instead of the peace that I thought your religion stood for. I guess it just goes to show that a kid will tell you ANYTHING it must in order to get what it wants.
"In regard to you being Athiest, that is your choice, and that choice is due to your G-d given free will. This being the case, though, you will have difficulty in quoting from the Bible and making sense out of it, so you might want to not attempt it much."
uh, because it takes a believer in greek mythology to understand it, right? This is the kind of silly shit I'm talking about. I can quote from the bible all day long and slap you silly with your own old testement. I made that remark so you could see that I have no chips in this poker game beyond concern for the humanity being shit on. But, with what seems to be the pattern, you assume more than you can prove. Hell, lets play the bible quoting game... Ill be your huckleberry. You wont be the first person to find out that being athiest doesn't make one a total gump about dogma. Tenez, sucker.
"You claim that my head is in a dark place. I noticed several personal and angry attacks in your responses even though I have made it a point to show respect and courtesy to you. I could just as easily point out that your head must be somewhere other than squarely on your shoulders if you claim to have read Revelation and not see prophesy in the fulfilling as it is happening today."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!
yea.. so uh, I have my head in a dark place because I wont acknowledge that the creation of Israel is a sign of the return of jesus? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
holy shit.. my first belly laugh o the day!
I could have this same arguement with you in 20 years and you'd STILL claim that jebus is right around the corner.. If you are going to make this easy on me than there is no point in responding. Please, try to make your next post a little less zealous because I don't necessarily worship MARS but Im pretty sure I can understand the role he played in Rome and can sleep well at night knowing that any applicable Roman prophesies kinda fell short of the expectation.
good grief.. yea, dude.. ONLY a religious person can FATHOM religious texts... Say, I bet you don't see how the same self centered pompous attitutde probably molds your outlook on the Pals, eh?
"Of course, to get a clear understanding you'd need to read and understand Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Matthew at the minimum, but if you did you'd have a different frame of mind about the whole "fairy tale" in general, so I really don't expect you to do so with that less than open mind and not so loving heart you seem to be laboring with."
The idea of an athiest familiar with your dogma guides totally blows your mind, eh? figures. This is the usual attituted that religious people use to look down at non-believers. Trust me, sir.. your behaviour is as ancient as when the first neanderthal tried to figure out where fire came from. Heres a shoker, sparky.. IVE read the bible. at least twice strait though and numerous times in referance.. guess what.. reading it isnt like a magic trick where *POOF* one becomes a believer. Hate to rock your world with that but it's true.
"This being the case, I'm not even going to bother returning scripture quote with accurate scripture quote. There is another scripture verse in the "fairy tale" that says something about throwing pearls to swine, or something like that; I think this is a good time to practice that piece of divine advice."
hey, you can mask your fear of an athiest wich whatever you want to, dude. Like I said, if you want to pull that biblical handcannon then lets get it on. But, if you want to creep away and lick your wounds ill understand. I don't need to humiliate you to be comfortable in what i've read and known about your dogma. Maybe you can sic your personal she-bear on me instead...
"I was really hoping that you were going to shed some light on something that I have previously missed, but you haven't. At least you didn't throw the myth of Deir Yassin at me; thanks for at least not being that insulting!"
I get the impression that moving your opinion out from under the zionist rock where your dark place is at would take the return of god wearing pearls and a dress. Since I can't conjure up fairy tales and you have no problem acting like a blond haired, blue eyed german I guess you can either quote me on the whoe RAPE thing or walk away feeling like just another mudhole that I had to stomp with non-biased logic and historic realities.
ps.. don't forget to tell me why Texans would be out killing jews if Israel were in Texas....
or just call me a jew hating anti-semite.. whatever works for you.
"Thanks for your time!"
Have a great day, sir!
First thing I noticed was that you called the article I asked you to read for the sake of me not having to type so much (I slept through typing class twice, and my lousy habits prove that! LOL!) "cherished" and I don't believe I called it as such. I'm thinking that it is not your personal opinion of the article, so I will have to assume that you are attempting to be either sarcastic or condescending. I have noticed a condescending attitude here on this board before. Makes me wonder if people actually want new blood here or if they prefer an inbred environment. Still, I will assume this is merely a quality in you that I will eventually find endearing."
You MUST be new to the whole messageboard thing. I'm glad I edited my own post and retracted some of the teethier comments I made or you might really have been bent out of shape. I hope you discover that www.usmessageboard.com is a bastion of neutral opinions and feathery vocab but it's gonna take a whole lot of blocking to get there. I hear that 80% of communication is lost in the net due to the flat nature of emotionless expression. You might lose the devilish smile and challenging gleem in my eye if the same conversation is held here rather than over a couple scotch and wtaers. Alas, such is the nature of messageboard interaction.
"I noticed that your writings on the turn of the last century "Palestine" is missing a few points and has other, less than factual points, added.
First, let me start with the very name, "Palestinian" as it is commonly meant to refer to the Arabs living in the region. Fact of the matter is this was a creation of Yasser Arafat for political reasons. It makes it sound as if they are some sort of indigenous people who have in the past had some sort of country and government in the region. This is not true. First, back in, say, 1915 (picked it out of the air, don't get hung up on the year), had you called an Arab wandering through the region a "Palestinian" he would have taken it as an offense as the Jews of the region were generally considered to be Palestinians."
sir, you can pretend that the land was a vacuum of total emptiness when Israel was created but it's gonna take a lot of rewriting of history to make people forget that there were human beings on the land before the jews decided to carve out a nation. I don't care if you get stuck in the nomenclature of a common identity. Hell, the THOUSANDS of North American tribes didnt fall under a common flag either.. does that make their claim to the land they were living on any less valid? Can you AT THE VERY LEAST ignore the nomenclature and admit that in fact there were already people living on the land who were simply kicked the fuck off of it so the jews could create a nation? So, by your logic then I guess Rome had every right to totally conquer the Germanic tribes of Europe and the UK? Cortez had every right to CLAIM the gold in America for spain? I don't care if you think the pals dont count then or now; the Germans should not have been allowed to treat the jews the way it did and so, too, should Israel not be allowed to treat the pals like they ARE for the sake of some rationalized excuse about nomenclature. The FACT remains that there were people there before Israel was created by europe. The FACT remains that no other group of people would react any differently to the external partition of their land. If the UN deci9ded to partition Israel so that the zoasterists could have a homeland then the jews in Israel would ract JUST LIKE the pals have, just like the Natives of N. America did, just like the Pegans reacted to Rome, and JUST LIKE THE US WOULD IF SOMEONE TRIED TO GIVE THE AMERICA SOUTHWEST TO CREATE ATZLAN etc etc.. This, sir, despite your nomenclature ruse, is why pals act the way they do. Until you can understand this you might as well be shrugging off the xylon B solution to jews who chose not to leave Germany.
"The Arabs of the region weren't organized, had no government, lived in squalid conditions when they did live in permanent homes and did little to improve the land or their conditions. Raids on neighboring communities were not unheard of for financial gain."
You just decribed THOUSANDS OF YEARS of Native culture in pre-reservation history. I hope you can see the correlation and travesty you allow while making such a silly excuse for concuering a people for their land.
"The condition of Palestine (a name for the region that is a variation of the renaming by Rome in the attempts to erase the Jew's history and memory of the area in response to the Jewish rebellion to Roman rule) has been recorded by those seeing it first hand. Here is from The Report of the Palestine Royal Commision, an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913:
The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts...no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]....Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen....The ploughs used were of wood....The yields were very poor....The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist....The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert....The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.
There are other quotes one can find, but one is enough to paint the picture.
One quote? No, lets exchange a few quotes together, shall we?
Meir Dizengoff
"How can Jews, who demand emancipation in Russia, rob rights and act selfishly toward other workers upon coming to Eretz Israel? If it is possible for many a people to hide fairness and justice behind cannon smoke, how and behind what shall we hide fairness and justice? We should absolutely not deceive ourselves with terrible visions. We shall never possess cannons, even if the goyim shall bear arms against one another for ever. Therefore, we cannot but settle in our land fairly and justly, to live and let live. " (Meir Dizengoff (writing as "Dromi") "The Workers Question," Hatzvi, September 21, 22, 1909)
Ironic, don't you think?
Yehoshua Hankin
" . . . . Had we desired to disregard the interests of such workers of the land as are dependent, directly or indirectly, upon lands of the landlords, we could have acquired large and unlimited areas, but in the course of our conversation I have pointed out to you that this has not been our policy and that, when acquiring lands, it is our ardent wish not to prejudice or do harm to the interests of anybody. We feel it our duty to settle the workers and enable them to continue their agricultural occupation, either in the same place or elsewhere. But we have the possibility of acquiring 100,000 dunams without having to make any settlement for the tenants, since the acquisition of such an area will not cause harm to anybody and will not oust anybody from his lands; only after this area has been acquired we shall have to see to a proper settlement for the tenants . . . ."
(Yehoshua Hankin concerning arrangements for Arabs displaced by the purchase of lands in the Jezreel valley. Letter of July 14, 1930, quoted by The Hope Simpson Report 1930 )
Oh, How the times they wre a changing, eh?
Chaim Weizmann
"There must not be one law for the Jew and another for the Arabs....In saying this, I do not assume that there are tendencies toward inequalirty or discrimination. It is merely a timely warning which is particularly necessary because we shall have a very large Arab minority. I am certain that the world will judge the Jewish State by what it will do with the Arabs, just as the Jewish people at large will be judged by what we do or fail to do in this state where we have been given such a wonderful opportunity after thousands of years of wandering and suffering." (Chaim Weizmann, Trial and Error, Page 566 - written in December 1947)
DAMN! This guy could see it in 1947 but YOU cannot! I wonder why that is..
David Ben Gurion
"They [our Arab Neighbors] in turn have much to give us, they are blessed with what we lack. Great territories, ample for themselves and their children's children, even if they are far more prolific than they are today. We do not covet their expanses nor will we penetrate them - for we shall fight to end Diaspora in Arab lands as fiercely as we fought to end it in Europe, we want to be assembled wholly in our own Land. But if this region is to expand to the full, there must be reciprocity, there can be mutual aid - economic, political and cultural - between Jew and Arab. That is the necessity which will prevail, and the daily fulminations of their leaders should not alarm us unduly - they do not echo the real interests of the Arab peoples. David Ben Gurion, Speech to the elected assembly of Palestinian Jews, October 2, 1947
Looks like SOMEONE was either full of shit or too near sighted in their projections...
http://www.zionism-israel.com/zionist_quotes.htm
Seems like SOME people of much repute thought that there was a legitimate concern for the Pals already on the land back then when there was no Israel... Yet, Here you are pretending that Pals appeared from out of nowhere in order to thwart poor jews from having their own nation. It's bullshit. We both know it even if only one of us will admit it.
"Now, keep in mind that at no time was there NOT a Jewish presence in Zion, and never did the Jews do anything but want to come back home. That is to say, the land had been forcefully taken from them on more than one occasion but never did they give up claim."
Dude, come on. and george washington chopped down a cherry tree and Ben Franklin flew a kite into a bolt of lightening. We ALL have nationalized hero fest stories that we think makes our personal history begger than it really is. If you REALLY want to consider the OT history of the Jews lets not forget how many lands were conquered then too.. Jericho.. Canaan.. We'd call that shit terrorism today. Sorry, I just don't sympathize with conquerers willing to sell their own shit as gold while making excuses for conquering. Since you brought up Jewish history let me share My Favorite OT moment:
Elisha and the She Bears
23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead! 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.
"When the Jews began coming home, they brought with them not only the knowledge but the desire to turn what varied from a desert wasteland to malarial swamps into beautiful, cultivated land. "
Oh yea.. and the Euros just wanted new settlements and GOLD in the new world! and they just wanted those savages to READ and WEAR SHOES! Westward Expansion just wanted prosperity despite whose land must be taken to achieve it! Spare me the self centered faux benevolence. This is the type of shit Rome used to rationalize everyone killed in the name of bringing culture to barbarian tribes.
"It was they who created the bread basket that today provides Europe with not only flowers and oranges but also otehr fruits and vegetable. Between the farms and the industries, everyone and not just the Jews benefited."
So, if I can only figure out a better use for the land then I can kick off everyone living in New York City? You are making blatant excuses for attrocities acted out in the name of a zionist motivation. Idont care how much you pat yourself on the back it still remains that your pet nation is no better now than when Andrew Jackson was creating the trail of tears. Sure sure, Oklahoma became prosporus beyond what the Natives made it so I guess the smallpox blankets and mass dislocation were all good things, eh? I mean, LOOK at the prosparity achieved by europeans on the same land that was going to waste while the natives lived there for THOUSANDS of years.. Hell, THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE A FLAG!
"You make mention of the fighting between the Arabs and the Jews, but you fail to make mention of the instigators,"
Id say a percieved invasion and being removed from your home is a pretty good place to start. Funny, You dont bat an eye condemning nazis for doing that kind fo thing but when talking about Israel....
"the lies and the pogroms carried out against the Jews. While it would be insane to suggest the Jews didn't strike back, it would be equally insane or dishonest to not acknowledge that the strife was created by the Arabs."
Arabs DEFENDING their right to remain in what they saw as their HOMELAND or Arabs who, because they are evil spawns of the devil, just want to wantonly kill jews? Say, humor me and take a guess:
If Israel were created in Texas rather than Palestive do you think Pals would still be out to kill Jews? Or would it be Texans? Seriously, just consider the answer to that question. Then, consider WHY that is the answer to the question.
"It was these pogroms that caused the partitioning, and, if you look at what was originally promised to the Jews"
promised by WHO, again? pals or EUROS? This is a significant point and the longer you ignore it the longer we all get to watch this bullshit conflict play out. Ill remind you of the Louisiana Purchase.
"and what was eventually allocated to them, a sliver of land that was barely contigious and would be declared non-defendable by anybody else, you'd have to admit that these people got the short end of the stick."
When being given free land to create a nation from the backs of the Pals? Gimme a break. jews are not guarenteed homeland any more than any other group of people are guarenteed a homeland. Ask a native American about that joke. SHORT END OF THE STICK? no, for a people who had nothing and no claim to anything beyond having christian buddies and a burning bush fairy tale no, they did not get the short end of the stick when being given other peoples property.
"Consider also, that while no Jew was allowed to live in Transjordan, the ews did not receive a piece of dirt that they could call all their own. Even so, they accepted the agreement as is."
And I hear buttons, beads and trinkets are worth an entire state of land..
"Your assertion that the War of Independence was in response to rapes, murders and land-stealing on the part of the Jews is not only false, it is a total lie, whether you believe you created it or whether you are simply passing on a lie not knowing it is one."
Did I ever use the word RAPE in any of my posts in this thread or are you playing an obvious game here? MURDER? quote me. PLEASE quote me. let's all watch how this standard reaction to criticism of Israel unfolds... Let's all take a gander at how you are about to line up the ole One-Two label machine punch. Ill save you the trouble, dude.. If you want to call me a jew hating anti-semite then go for it. Long ago I've stopped giving a damn about the opinons of people who always reach for the same gun in this debate. If your ability to cover this subject amounts to lining up the tired old trite shit of fabricating quotes and asserting that I hate jews then it is obvious that you are the same kind of spoke in the same type of wheel that allowed the nazis to flourish.
Again, QUOTE me using the word MURDER or RAPE.
"Your claims of murders and rapes go untold in history, never have they been claimed before. The rapes is more than laughable as a Jewish man would NOT have done that with a goy."
riiiiiiiiiight... just like a white man in the south would never rape a slave.... not that I brought up rape at all but your logic is generalized retardation. You can't speak for the millions of individual behaviours since 1948.. but feel free to try since it probably doesn't make it obvious to what degree you will go to insist in the benevolence of your master rac, er, jewish heritage.
"The assertion that the land was stolen is false as well, unless you figure that purchasing land at fair value from non-residing land owners and ONLY "fellahs" who are no longer living on or working the land to be "stealing". The attack on the tiny Jewish state by the Arab world occured because they would not tolerate a Jewish nation in their midst. Period."
Like I've already stated... Israel was not purchased from Arabs when Israel was created. It's about as valid to the indegenous population as Paying off France was in what would eventually become Missouri. Ignore that fact and pretend what you will. To the Natives, yes, it IS stealing. To me, Yes, it is Stealing. Jews and Arabs livbed together BEFORE the creation of Israel. Claiming that this conflict is just a matter of Arabs not wanting to live around jews is not only lame as hell but clearly conveys your lack of historic objectivity and, frankly, how ethnocentric you are in light of the humanity that gets to eat shit so that you can worship Israel. Sad that the state of your people has come to this level of rationalized hatred towards non-jews. Aparthied walls and transparent excuses instead of the peace that I thought your religion stood for. I guess it just goes to show that a kid will tell you ANYTHING it must in order to get what it wants.
"In regard to you being Athiest, that is your choice, and that choice is due to your G-d given free will. This being the case, though, you will have difficulty in quoting from the Bible and making sense out of it, so you might want to not attempt it much."
uh, because it takes a believer in greek mythology to understand it, right? This is the kind of silly shit I'm talking about. I can quote from the bible all day long and slap you silly with your own old testement. I made that remark so you could see that I have no chips in this poker game beyond concern for the humanity being shit on. But, with what seems to be the pattern, you assume more than you can prove. Hell, lets play the bible quoting game... Ill be your huckleberry. You wont be the first person to find out that being athiest doesn't make one a total gump about dogma. Tenez, sucker.
"You claim that my head is in a dark place. I noticed several personal and angry attacks in your responses even though I have made it a point to show respect and courtesy to you. I could just as easily point out that your head must be somewhere other than squarely on your shoulders if you claim to have read Revelation and not see prophesy in the fulfilling as it is happening today."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!
yea.. so uh, I have my head in a dark place because I wont acknowledge that the creation of Israel is a sign of the return of jesus? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
holy shit.. my first belly laugh o the day!
I could have this same arguement with you in 20 years and you'd STILL claim that jebus is right around the corner.. If you are going to make this easy on me than there is no point in responding. Please, try to make your next post a little less zealous because I don't necessarily worship MARS but Im pretty sure I can understand the role he played in Rome and can sleep well at night knowing that any applicable Roman prophesies kinda fell short of the expectation.
good grief.. yea, dude.. ONLY a religious person can FATHOM religious texts... Say, I bet you don't see how the same self centered pompous attitutde probably molds your outlook on the Pals, eh?
"Of course, to get a clear understanding you'd need to read and understand Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Matthew at the minimum, but if you did you'd have a different frame of mind about the whole "fairy tale" in general, so I really don't expect you to do so with that less than open mind and not so loving heart you seem to be laboring with."
The idea of an athiest familiar with your dogma guides totally blows your mind, eh? figures. This is the usual attituted that religious people use to look down at non-believers. Trust me, sir.. your behaviour is as ancient as when the first neanderthal tried to figure out where fire came from. Heres a shoker, sparky.. IVE read the bible. at least twice strait though and numerous times in referance.. guess what.. reading it isnt like a magic trick where *POOF* one becomes a believer. Hate to rock your world with that but it's true.
"This being the case, I'm not even going to bother returning scripture quote with accurate scripture quote. There is another scripture verse in the "fairy tale" that says something about throwing pearls to swine, or something like that; I think this is a good time to practice that piece of divine advice."
hey, you can mask your fear of an athiest wich whatever you want to, dude. Like I said, if you want to pull that biblical handcannon then lets get it on. But, if you want to creep away and lick your wounds ill understand. I don't need to humiliate you to be comfortable in what i've read and known about your dogma. Maybe you can sic your personal she-bear on me instead...
"I was really hoping that you were going to shed some light on something that I have previously missed, but you haven't. At least you didn't throw the myth of Deir Yassin at me; thanks for at least not being that insulting!
"I get the impression that moving your opinion out from under the zionist rock where your dark place is at would take the return of god wearing pearls and a dress. Since I can't conjure up fairy tales and you have no problem acting like a blond haired, blue eyed german I guess you can either quote me on the whoe RAPE thing or walk away feeling like just another mudhole that I had to stomp with non-biased logic and historic realities.
ps.. don't forget to tell me why Texans would be out killing jews if Israel were in Texas....
or just call me a jew hating anti-semite.. whatever works for you.
"Thanks for your time!"
Have a great day, sir!
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I can, but this board won't let me until I get a few posts under my belt.
then post your 25 posts and draw that smokestack
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The Pals are not part of Israel. The Oslo Accords was to get them 98% of what they wanted and they would have had a free state of their own. Instead they went on a holy war. If the Pals ever really were rational on some issues they would have a free independent country and a tourist host spot.
Also measures have be taken to protect the public and that is what Israel is doing. Israeli Arabs hate the country they have citizenship in. They wish for its destruction. Yet the are no government barriers to jobs. They have voting rights. Israeli Arabs are legislators, government works and judges. There is even an Arab on the high court of Israel. Arabs get full protection of the law (can't say the same about Jews or Christians or Arabs for that matter in Iran). It is a fallacy that Israeli Arabs don't live well inside Israel.
considering how a burning bush and jebus fits into the validation of Israel do you REALLY want to pont fingers at a HOLY WAR?
Robert E Lee made thesame remarks about protecting the public from injuns too. Want to hear more quotes from the likes of people who say that kind of thing? I could remind you of the political reality of jews in Iran too.. but that doesn't really reflect how jews are treated as a whole, does it? Likewise, pretending that pals are treated equally because of a token political seat in Israel is beyond lame.
Hey, let's see any other nation build an aparthied wall to segregate jews.. Im sure THAT would be allowed without martyr bells going off.. but when ISRAEL wants to do it.. well. then it's just for defense.. whe ISRAEL wnats to invade settlements to find more land for immigrating jews.. well, wait for the pals to respond and then IT"S just defense!
Full protection? HA! yea, just like blacks got fullprotection while on their masters farm circa 1792.
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He was killed by a radical that a large portion of the Jewish Israelis didn't support!
funny how you neither acknowledge that a jew killed him and ignore those jews that DID support him.
I could remind you that the majority of muslims want peace too but.. hey, thats just a one way street, isnt it?
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