anti-israel sentiment of the democratic party, and why i cant support them.

[Shogun]

When you talk about discrimination consider this. Israel is the most diverse country of in the M.E. They have a larger Muslim population percentage wise than Iran, Syria, S.A., Paletinian Terrirtories etc. have non-Jews.
Iran:
Demography of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Syria:
Man the Syrians really know how to mix it up
Demographics of Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Saudi Arabia:
Man SA is the model of diversity.
Jordan:
Man weren't they one of the moderate Arab countries?
Demographics of Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Egypt:
God, another model of diversity LOL
Demographics of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
iversitywise none of these country's can hold a candle Israel. You can dismiss it all you want put the proof is in the pudding.
West Bank:
Gaza:
Now that is diversity. Not only is there really just one sec of one religion, there is really only one type of people (Arabs)
Israel:
Let's see Palestine basically all Sunni Muslim, Israel majority Jewish, but 1/4 of the population isn't Jewish!

Oh... I get it.. so, because SPAIN is not as ehtnically diverse as the US it doesn't qualify as a nation?

ahh.. must be more of that "but they didnt have a flag" logic.

so, since when has the prerequisite for a common national identity hinged on a diverse ethnic population? How does playing with statistics validate treating pals liek shit? Can I post stats about the rate of longer lives for blacks while they were slaves to rationalize slavery? no? how silly would that be?

I guess Israel WOULD be pretty diverse since carving itself into a muslim population. Hell, Lets invade Etheopia and tout our multiculturalism! If they fight back we can still use their demographics as long as they still hold onto the dream of getting their land back from my new injected nation.

 

[Shogun]

Funny guy!

At the present time anti-semitism only extends to JEWS, so your comment is foolish and demostrates the mask that I was talking about. Bravo

Indeed.. Remember Doniston.. ONLY JEWS have ever been picked on. ONLY JEWS have the right to feel marginalized.


remember that.


if you believe anything else you are probably a jew hating antisemite.

 

[maineman]

Do you think that the Natives in the entire midwest all just said SHUCKS and started packing their shit when word came around that the FRENCH sold the land they were on?

gimme a fucking break, dude.

you apparently didn't read my post, or perhaps you just fail to understand it. For the most part, the land of palestine was never owned by palestinians, but by Turks in the final days of the Ottoman Empire. Palestinians rented the land... the owners sold big chunks of it to Jews...they would have sold it to arabs and, in many cases, did.... you snooze, you lose.

Additionally, those arab landowners who chose to stay on their land when the pan arab army came sweeping in to boot all the Jews into the Med...those families still own that land. The Gallilee is full of arab farmland. The ones that chose to believe the promises of Pasha Glubb and the rest of the nations contributing to the pan arab army and who left their property with the promise of return with the dividend of grabbing land of Jews who had been forced to flee and were now treading water in the Med.... THOSE palestinians and their offspring inhabit the refugee camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon today.

Start a war. Lose a war. Tough shit. Losers. suck it up..lick your wounds and QUIT WHINING!

 

[Shogun]

hey...


nothing like a little legalese to vindicate the Louisiana purchase too!


i tellya, the length you people will go to ignore this generations greatest human travesty is amazing.


Take your cavelier opinon about might making right to the reservation, buddy. Tell them how they deserve what happened because they made war to defend their homeland and lost. I bet you'd sing a different tune if it were your nation being rationalized as a footnate in the creation of a new nation carved from the US..


They should have added that alternate ending in the movie Red Dawn. Sorry, make war with the ruskies and you lose boofucking hoo whiney Americans..


walk a mile, dude.

 

[maineman]

hey...


nothing like a little legalese to vindicate the Louisiana purchase too!


i tellya, the length you people will go to ignore this generations greatest human travesty is amazing.


Take your cavelier opinon about might making right to the reservation, buddy. Tell them how they deserve what happened because they made war to defend their homeland and lost. I bet you'd sing a different tune if it were your nation being rationalized as a footnate in the creation of a new nation carved from the US..


They should have added that alternate ending in the movie Red Dawn. Sorry, make war with the ruskies and you lose boofucking hoo whiney Americans..


walk a mile, dude.

are you suggesting that caucasian Americans give the land back to the indigenous tribes our ancestors stole it from?

 

[Shogun]

Im suggesting that the travesty behind the same manifest destiny as we see in israel is no less horrible now than it was then just because we currently have the wonderful city of St. Louis. How many native lives does it take to pay for Chicago?

Im suggesting that when you see history repeat itself that perhaps you should consider the humanity being burned off in order to facilitate your westward, in this case Israeli, expansion.

I'm suggesting that we've seen how this little dance ends already. If you are unclear about how marginalization works, beyond your ethnocentric position, you might figure out why you don't see native American's enjoying a cheeseburger at the average fast food joint east of the Mississippi very often.

Im suggesting that you honestly answer the question: If Israel were created in TEXAS would it be Pals or TEXANS out killing jews? Im suggesting you figure out the significance of that answer. Im suggesting that until you acknowledge the root of Pal aggression and stop making excuses for Andrew Jackson solutions this conflict wont resolve itself into a peace without a track record that , perhaps, only those on a reservation can appriciate.

 

[maineman]

you seem to think we can hop in the Wayback machine and return to 1948, but somehow, going back to 1848 is out of the question?

 

[Shogun]

I seem to think that all the one way glad handing of Israel is the same type of sentiment that garenteed the total destruction of our very own natives..

You could learn a lesson from hisotry or you can allow it to happen again. We can't change what happened to our natives but you could learn from the lessons that caused their destruction. Yes, you COULD learn the lesson that our natives paid for with their entire cultures... It's not a time machine to hold Israel accountable and acknowledge the Pal motivation for what they see as defending THEIR homeland instead of writing them off as a good dead injun (boofuckinghoo, right asshole?)

even if THEY didnt have a common flag, wore shoes or could read latin either.

Didn't want to answer that it would be TEXANS out killing jews if Israel were in Texas, eh? figures. Afraid that you might admit something and get a label applied too?

 

[maineman]

I seem to think that all the one way glad handing of Israel is the same type of sentiment that garenteed the total destruction of our very own natives..

You could learn a lesson from hisotry or you can allow it to happen again. We can't change what happened to our natives but you could learn from the lessons that caused their destruction. Yes, you COULD learn the lesson that our natives paid for with their entire cultures... It's not a time machine to hold Israel accountable and acknowledge the Pal motivation for what they see as defending THEIR homeland instead of writing them off as a good dead injun (boofuckinghoo, right asshole?)

even if THEY didnt have a common flag, wore shoes or could read latin either.

Didn't want to answer that it would be TEXANS out killing jews if Israel were in Texas, eh? figures. Afraid that you might admit something and get a label applied too?

If you could somehow adapt your Texas analogy to include things like LONG standing third party land ownership a la Ottoman Empire and LONG standing historical ties to Texas on the part of Israelis, maybe I would be able to address it.

It IS a way back machine and it is no different than here in America. Oddly enough, you never did answer me...would you be willing to just give up your house and land to the indigenous tribes our ancestors stole it from? yes or no?

 

[jillian]

Shogun,

I'm not going to respond to you point by point because you ignore the points I raise and rant about the poor palestinians. and frankly, I've had enough of terrorists to last me a lifetime, so perhaps lack a bit of sympathy for those who elected the terrorist Hamas government.

Ultimately, here's the issue, and the question you have to answer...

Issue: Israel exists, deal with it.

Question: What would your resolution of the palestinian issue be? Hand over the keys to them and just curl up and die? or a practical, two-state solution that allows both defensible borders?

Ball's in your court....

-- J

 

[Shogun]

If you could somehow adapt your Texas analogy to include things like LONG standing third party land ownership a la Ottoman Empire and LONG standing historical ties to Texas on the part of Israelis, maybe I would be able to address it.

It IS a way back machine and it is no different than here in America. Oddly enough, you never did answer me...would you be willing to just give up your house and land to the indigenous tribes our ancestors stole it from? yes or no?

oh I KNOW! not having a flag and wearing shoes was the qualifier of Westward expansion and not YOU want to cling to the Ottoman Empire?

So, if MEXICO sold TEXAS to ISRAEL, because mex once owned the land, and ISRAEL carved itself out of a state of the United States... clear enough or do you want to tapdance a little more so you don't ahve to admit that it would be TEXANS out killing jews instead of pals..

or, did you want to suggest that pals would be crossing the atlantic ocean because killing jews is part of their genetic makeup?



would you be willing to just give up your house and land to the indigenous tribes our ancestors stole it from? yes or no?

that seems to be the crux of the issue. The natives werent. The Texans wouldnt. I Wouldnt. YOU wouldnt and, guess what, NEITHER WOULD THE PALS based on some lame asses burning bush dogma legend.

Now, notice how that realization won't make you any less automatically supportive of jews while any less automatically willing to marginalize pals. Boofuckinhoo, right buddy? the only good pal is a dead pal? Sound about right?

damn.. you walked right into that one, didnt you?

 

[Shogun]

Shogun,
I'm not going to respond to you point by point because you ignore the points I raise and rant about the poor palestinians. and frankly, I've had enough of terrorists to last me a lifetime, so perhaps lack a bit of sympathy for those who elected the terrorist Hamas government.
Ultimately, here's the issue, and the question you have to answer...
Issue: Israel exists, deal with it.
Question: What would your resolution of the palestinian issue be? Hand over the keys to them and just curl up and die? or a practical, two-state solution that allows both defensible borders?
Ball's in your court....
-- J

No, what you have to realize is that Israel was created and israel can be destroyed just like any other nation. when it comes down to it America wont commit suicide in order to save Israel even if pandering to the zionists is currently popular.

But hey, at one time NAZI GERMANY existed too. Did you like how your ethnic background was once told to deal with it? turnabout isnt' fair play anymore, is it?


I've posted more suggestions regarding a peaceful solution in Israel than most of you antisemite label machines have ever tried to consider. Why? because it is easier to write me off as a jew hating antisemite than consider the sins of your pet nation and acknowledge the root of pal aggression and then MOVE ON from there. You expect blameless passage into peace OR expect to callously write off the lives of pals in your own version of westard expansion. How humanitarian, Jillian. Remind me how shitty are neocons who can do the same thing with Iraqi lives sometime. Same shit, different pet issue.


oh, the very FIRST thing would be to tear down the wall and invest in the pals and show the muslim world that jews in israel are interested in the ORIGINAL intent (see my above posted quotes by JEWS) instead of dominating in an unfair society. We both know that the shit that props jews into a favoable position would not float in the US. No matter how you rationalize it such is no better than some good ole boy whitey who wanted to preserve white culture by segregation. If Israel could incorporate the Pals instead of treating them like cockroaches in the gutter then you might just be suprised at how the entire situation becomes less and less a call to arms to kill jews and wipe out israel by those who simply hate jews. fuck, Jill, WE HAVE AN AFFIRMATIVE ACCTION AND ANTI DISCRIMINATION LAWS TO FIX OUR TREATMENT OF BLACKS AND MAINTAIN ETHNIC FAIRNESS. can you say the same thing for Israel?

 

[maineman]

oh I KNOW! not having a flag and wearing shoes was the qualifier of Westward expansion and not YOU want to cling to the Ottoman Empire?

So, if MEXICO sold TEXAS to ISRAEL, because mex once owned the land, and ISRAEL carved itself out of a state of the United States... clear enough or do you want to tapdance a little more so you don't ahve to admit that it would be TEXANS out killing jews instead of pals..

or, did you want to suggest that pals would be crossing the atlantic ocean because killing jews is part of their genetic makeup?



would you be willing to just give up your house and land to the indigenous tribes our ancestors stole it from? yes or no?

that seems to be the crux of the issue. The natives werent. The Texans wouldnt. I Wouldnt. YOU wouldnt and, guess what, NEITHER WOULD THE PALS based on some lame asses burning bush dogma legend.

Now, notice how that realization won't make you any less automatically supportive of jews while any less automatically willing to marginalize pals. Boofuckinhoo, right buddy? the only good pal is a dead pal? Sound about right?

damn.. you walked right into that one, didnt you?

if Mexico still OWNED Texas and none of the indigenous texans had ownership rights to the land, and Mexico sold the land to Israel.... as was their right to do.... then the indigenous texans would have to find someplace else to live. If I rent my apartment, and my landlord wants to sell the building to someone else who wants to use it as a dormitory to house all of his friends, I am in the market for a new place...right?

and you said that you aren't willing to give up your land to the indigenous folks our ancestors stole it from..... you got no room to criticize Israelis for not giving up Israel to palestinians who lost a fucking war for it in the first place.

 

[jillian]

No, what you have to realize is that Israel was created and israel can be destroyed just like any other nation. when it comes down to it America wont commit suicide in order to save Israel even if pandering to the zionists is currently popular.

But hey, at one time NAZI GERMANY existed too. Did you like how your ethnic background was once told to deal with it? turnabout isnt' fair play anymore, is it?


I've posted more suggestions regarding a peaceful solution in Israel than most of you antisemite label machines have ever tried to consider. Why? because it is easier to write me off as a jew hating antisemite than consider the sins of your pet nation and acknowledge the root of pal aggression and then MOVE ON from there. You expect blameless passage into peace OR expect to callously write off the lives of pals in your own version of westard expansion. How humanitarian, Jillian. Remind me how shitty are neocons who can do the same thing with Iraqi lives sometime. Same shit, different pet issue.


oh, the very FIRST thing would be to tear down the wall and invest in the pals and show the muslim world that jews in israel are interested in the ORIGINAL intent (see my above posted quotes by JEWS) instead of dominating in an unfair society. We both know that the shit that props jews into a favoable position would not float in the US. No matter how you rationalize it such is no better than some good ole boy whitey who wanted to preserve white culture by segregation. If Israel could incorporate the Pals instead of treating them like cockroaches in the gutter then you might just be suprised at how the entire situation becomes less and less a call to arms to kill jews and wipe out israel by those who simply hate jews.

Blah blah blah.... you can pretend that I called you names, which I didn't, and you could answer the question without pointificating, but you didn't.

You claim that I don't acknowledge when Israel has done something wrong. First, you wouldn't know, because you didn't ask. And it also isn't what we're discussing here. There are enough people around who make up sins that were never committed or ignore the sins that were committed against Israel for me to bother doing that. What I asked about was a solution which left each group its autonomy, presumably what the pals say they want, but have made every effort to avoid.

Go back to sharing the country with them? piss on that. Again, where was any other country which won land in defensive battle asked to return it?

And THAT is why purportedly "anti-zionist" sentiments mask anti-semitism.... it is the unwillingness to address a current WORKABLE solution that leaves Israel intact....because, really, what we're talking about is that you don't think Israel should exist as a Jewish State. And to that, I say fuck you... no offense, of course.

And I'm perfectly happy with a wall... people who blow themselves up just to kill jews don't belong in Israel.

 

[Shogun]

if Mexico still OWNED Texas and none of the indigenous texans had ownership rights to the land, and Mexico sold the land to Israel.... as was their right to do.... then the indigenous texans would have to find someplace else to live. If I rent my apartment, and my landlord wants to sell the building to someone else who wants to use it as a dormitory to house all of his friends, I am in the market for a new place...right?

and you said that you aren't willing to give up your land to the indigenous folks our ancestors stole it from..... you got no room to criticize Israelis for not giving up Israel to palestinians who lost a fucking war for it in the first place.

Dance, dude. Dance.

You see, I don't have to constantly defend my home from the natives because they were kicked into a reservation long ago. Can Israel say the same thing (yet)? So, I guess you totally missed how I said you, not I, nor the natives NOR PALS would choose todo so either.. yet, you ignore the pals.. because you really, REALLY want to give that blank check to israel. Lets see if you can follow the patter: YOU, ME, NATIVES, PALS - ALL willing to violently defend their homeland. I guess Red Dawn was, like, a terrorist guide or something.

Neither do I believe that you are missing the point of mexico having once owned Texas which is not a state of the US while selling Texas to Israel. But, I get the feeling you'd dodge this even if I drew you a picture. Anything to suck off Israel, eh buddy? why admit that Texans would react just like the Pals when TEXANS HAVE A FLAG AND WEAR SHOES!

It's cool.

Ive made my point and put you on the backpeddle. If the best point you can make is that neither I, nor YOU, nor the Natives nor PAlestine is willing to hand over their homeland then it's really no wonder you've tossed on the tutu in this thread. No other people in the history of the world willingly moves over so some nomadic group can carve out a nation but YOU want to rely on legalese to rationalize telling the natives of Palestine Boofuckinghoo.

Indeed, tell me what kind of monster geroge bush is again. It probably wont be ironic as fuck.

 

[Shogun]

Blah blah blah.... you can pretend that I called you names, which I didn't, and you could answer the question without pointificating, but you didn't.
You claim that I don't acknowledge when Israel has done something wrong. First, you wouldn't know, because you didn't ask. And it also isn't what we're discussing here. There are enough people around who make up sins that were never committed or ignore the sins that were committed against Israel for me to bother doing that. What I asked about was a solution which left each group its autonomy, presumably what the pals say they want, but have made every effort to avoid.
Go back to sharing the country with them? piss on that. Again, where was any other country which won land in defensive battle asked to return it?
And THAT is why purportedly "anti-zionist" sentiments mask anti-semitism.... it is the unwillingness to address a current WORKABLE solution that leaves Israel intact....because, really, what we're talking about is that you don't think Israel should exist as a Jewish State. And to that, I say fuck you... no offense, of course.
And I'm perfectly happy with a wall... people who blow themselves up just to kill jews don't belong in Israel.

oh yea.. PISS on that, indeed. Nice ethnocentric attitude you have there. They only lived there, flagless, before the creation of Israel so why WOULDNT they deserve to be written off. It's not like a JEW should understand what it means to be marginalized by a dominant culture. Hell, at least I've brought out your inner nazi, Jill. Maybe you can identify with those who similarly said Piss on sharing their european nation iwth gypsies, gays and jews, eh? OOPS. I forgot... this kind of "walk a mile" shit doesn't float when a zionist wants to keep israel from being criticised for treating it's minority like the germans treated them.

hey, Germans were prefectly happy with concentration camps too. But I guess you wont see the irony of your fucked up warped "now that Im on top, fuck you" mentallity, eh?


Fair enough. When Israel gets wiped off of the map and your first response is to cry bloody murder ill give you the same shitty advice mainman can scrape together for the pals: Boofuckinghoo

We've got eastern european nations come and go numerous times since 1948 and you seem to think Israel has some invisible fucking forcefield. You may think that the US will kill itself defending Israel but you'd be mistaken. Especially when your lame fucking nazi-like disregard for humanity in palestine is transparent on the world market of ideals. Again, lecture someone about Bush and his callous solutions in Iraq while mimmicking the same shit when the issue is Israel. You have no grounds to pretend to be concerned about humanity in the mid east when politically convenient while having that kind of closed minded outlook regardeing Pals.


If you want to forward to me your picture ill go ahead and start putting your visage on every 20 dollar bill I come accross... You can even wave your big stick and send some smallpox blankets to the west bank if you think it might result in a few more jewish settlements!

 

[Shogun]

Terrorist Propaganda

TERRORIST

 

[jillian]

oh yea.. PISS on that, indeed. Nice ethnocentric attitude you have there. They only lived there, flagless, before the creation of Israel so why WOULDNT they deserve to be written off. It's not like a JEW should understand what it means to be marginalized by a dominant culture. Hell, at least I've brought out your inner nazi, Jill. Maybe you can identify with those who similarly said Piss on sharing their european nation iwth gypsies, gays and jews, eh? OOPS. I forgot... this kind of "walk a mile" shit doesn't float when a zionist wants to keep israel from being criticised for treating it's minority like the germans treated them.

hey, Germans were prefectly happy with concentration camps too. But I guess you wont see the irony of your fucked up warped "now that Im on top, fuck you" mentallity, eh?


Fair enough. When Israel gets wiped off of the map and your first response is to cry bloody murder ill give you the same shitty advice mainman can scrape together for the pals: Boofuckinghoo

We've got eastern european nations come and go numerous times since 1948 and you seem to think Israel has some invisible fucking forcefield. You may think that the US will kill itself defending Israel but you'd be mistaken. Especially when your lame fucking nazi-like disregard for humanity in palestine is transparent on the world market of ideals. Again, lecture someone about Bush and his callous solutions in Iraq while mimmicking the same shit when the issue is Israel. You have no grounds to pretend to be concerned about humanity in the mid east when politically convenient while having that kind of closed minded outlook regardeing Pals.


If you want to forward to me your picture ill go ahead and start putting your visage on every 20 dollar bill I come accross... You can even wave your big stick and send some smallpox blankets to the west bank if you think it might result in a few more jewish settlements!

Nazis were nazis.... And last I checked, there were no palestinians in concentration camps. I guess it's only ok when Jewish blood is spilled, huh:? I merely asked a simple question which was how do you solve the problem realistically and allow both peoples their autonomy.

That apparently upset you. Take two aspirin and call Hamas in the morning

Cheers.

 

[Shogun]

Nazis were nazis.... And last I checked, there were no palestinians in concentration camps. I guess it's only ok when Jewish blood is spilled, huh:? I merely asked a simple question which was how do you solve the problem realistically and allow both peoples their autonomy.

That apparently upset you. Take two aspirin and call Hamas in the morning

Cheers.

NOt at all, I dont want ANY blood spilled... what you wont admit is that your attitude PERPETUATES THE FUCKING CYCLE. You get peace for jews when you MAKE PEACE with the pals.

but hey, what do I know.. Im just a goyim who probably wants to throw you down a well, right Jill?


Hell, ONLY NAZIs are capable of commiting human attrocities! ONLY NAZIs have ever marginalized humaity! duh.. silly me. No other people in the history of the fucking planet earth felt the heel of a boot like the jews did so why would ANYONE think a wall and complete social disparity in Israel for the Pals is even remotely comparable. After all.. Pals are not Jews so they simply dont count in this greek fucking tragedy, right jill?


I'd be upset talking to a nazi trying to rationalize their final solution too. And ole Andy Jackson trying to suggest how the natives DESERVE to get the fuck out. Piss on them, right, Jill?


again... lecture a neocon about Iraq some more. It's totally NOT ironic as fuck.

 

[jillian]

NOt at all, I dont want ANY blood spilled... what you wont admit is that your attitude PERPETUATES THE FUCKING CYCLE. You get peace for jews when you MAKE PEACE with the pals.

but hey, what do I know.. Im just a goyim who probably wants to throw you down a well, right Jill?


Hell, ONLY NAZIs are capable of commiting human attrocities! ONLY NAZIs have ever marginalized humaity! duh.. silly me. No other people in the history of the fucking planet earth felt the heel of a boot like the jews did so why would ANYONE think a wall and complete social disparity in Israel for the Pals is even remotely comparable. After all.. Pals are not Jews so they simply dont count in this greek fucking tragedy, right jill?


I'd be upset talking to a nazi trying to rationalize their final solution too. And ole Andy Jackson trying to suggest how the natives DESERVE to get the fuck out. Piss on them, right, Jill?


again... lecture a neocon about Iraq some more. It's totally NOT ironic as fuck.

Oh goody...another rant. The fact that you can compare the existence of Israel with nazis, the Iraq War and Andy Jackson speaks volumes. For someone so compassionate, it seems that your compassion doesn't extend beyond the borders of the Gaza.

What I will say is I don't want bloodshed either and if the Palestinians wanted a peace that would leave Israel with defensible borders, they'd have it. It is THEY who have repeatedly rejected peace, even when Rabin and Barak were in charge. Have you ever heard any Palestinian leader say Israel should be anything but sent into the sea?

Again, I asked a simple question: what is your solution that LEAVES BOTH ... read that again... BOTH groups autonomous and defensible?

I'm still waiting...

And now I'm going to atone for my sins of omission and comission, you?