Another Way to Use Religion for Political Purposes

[Adam's Apple]

Calvin & Mud
By Kathryn Jean Lopez, National Review
August 28, 2007

http://author.nationalreview.com/latest/?q=MjE3Mw==

 

[Bullypulpit]

From what I can see, these days religion does little more than provide another irrational excuse for one group of people to hate another. As if we need anymore irrational excuses.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

From what I can see, these days religion does little more than provide another irrational excuse for one group of people to hate another. As if we need anymore irrational excuses.

You mean relgious groups' hatred for godless secularists and their leftist agenda?
I wouldn't call that irrational at all.

 

[Diuretic]

You mean relgious groups' hatred for godless secularists and their leftist agenda?
I wouldn't call that irrational at all.

Religious groups' hatred.....says it all really.

 

[Annie]

Can someone who is criticizing the religious 'groups', please tell me which groups speak for whom?

Truly seems ACTUP or ANSWER speak for many more than the groups I've no knowledge of.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I was indicting religion in general...which includes blind, unquestioning adherence to secular doctrines.

 

[eots]

Skull and Bones is an elite secret society at Yale University that includes some of the most powerful men of the 20th century. (60 Minutes/CBS)




(CBS) As opposite as George Bush and John Kerry may seem to be, they do share a common secret - one they've shared for decades, and one they will not share with the electorate.

The secret: details of their membership in Skull and Bones, the elite Yale University society whose members include some of the most powerful men of the 20th century.

Bonesmen, as they're called, are forbidden to reveal what goes on in their inner sanctum, the windowless building on the Yale campus that is called the Tomb.

When 60 Minutes first reported on Skull & Bones last October, conspiracy theorists, who see Skull and Bones behind just about everything that goes wrong, and even right, in the world, were relishingthe. unthinkable - the possibility of two Bonesman fighting it out for the presidency

Over the years, Bones has included presidents, cabinet officers, spies, Supreme Court justices, captains of industry, and often their sons and lately their daughters, a social and political network like no other.

And to a man and women, they'd responded to questions with utter silence until an enterprising Yale graduate, Alexandra Robbins, managed to penetrate the wall of silence in her book, “Secrets of the Tomb,” reports CBS News Correspondent Morley Safer.

"I spoke with about 100 members of Skull and Bones and they were members who were tired of the secrecy, and that's why they were willing to talk to me,” says Robbins. “But probably twice that number hung up on me, harassed me, or threatened me.”

Secret or not, Skull and Bones is as essential to Yale as the Whiffenpoofs, the tables down at a pub called Mory's, and the Yale mascot - that ever-slobbering bulldog.

Skull and Bones, with all its ritual and macabre relics, was founded in 1832 as a new world version of secret student societies that were common in Germany at the time. Since then, it has chosen or "tapped" only 15 senior students a year who become patriarchs when they graduate -- lifetime members of the ultimate old boys' club.

“Skull and Bones is so tiny. That's what makes this staggering,” says Robbins. “There are only 15 people a year, which means there are about 800 living members at any one time.”

But a lot of Bonesmen have gone on to positions of great power, which Robbins says is the main purpose of this secret society: to get as many members as possible into positions of power.

“They do have many individuals in influential positions,” says Robbins. “And that's why this is something that we need to know about.”

President Bush has tapped five fellow Bonesmen to join his administration. Most recently, he selected William Donaldson, Skull and Bones 1953, the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Like the President, he's taken the Bones oath of silence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Rosenbaum, author and columnist for the New York Observer, has become obsessed with cracking that code of secrecy.

“I think there is a deep and legitimate distrust in America for power and privilege that are cloaked in secrecy. It's not supposed to be the way we do things,” says Rosenbaum. “We're supposed to do things out in the open in America. And so that any society or institution that hints that there is something hidden is, I think, a legitimate subject for investigation.”

His investigation is a 30-year obsession dating back to his days as a Yale classmate of George W. Bush. Rosenbaum, a self-described undergraduate nerd, was certainly not a contender for Bones. But he was fascinated by its weirdness.

“It's this sepulchral, tomblike, windowless, granite, sandstone bulk that you can't miss. And I lived next to it,” says Rosenbaum. “I had passed it all the time. And during the initiation rites, you could hear strange cries and whispers coming from the Skull and Bones tomb.”

Despite a lifetime of attempts to get inside, the best Rosenbaum could do was hide out on the ledge of a nearby building a few years ago to videotape a nocturnal initiation ceremony in the Tomb's courtyard.

“A woman holds a knife and pretends to slash the throat of another person lying down before them, and there's screaming and yelling at the neophytes,” he says.

Robbins says the cast of the initiation ritual is right out of Harry Potter meets Dracula: “There is a devil, a Don Quixote and a Pope who has one foot sheathed in a white monogrammed slipper resting on a stone skull. The initiates are led into the room one at a time. And once an initiate is inside, the Bonesmen shriek at him. Finally, the Bonesman is shoved to his knees in front of Don Quixote as the shrieking crowd falls silent. And Don Quixote lifts his sword and taps the Bonesman on his left shoulder and says, ‘By order of our order, I dub thee knight of Euloga.’"

It’s a lot of mumbo-jumbo, says Robbins, but it means a lot to the people who are in it.

“Prescott Bush, George W's grandfather, and a band of Bonesmen, robbed the grave of Geronimo, took the skull and some personal relics of the Apache chief and brought them back to the tomb,” says Robbins. “There is still a glass case, Bonesmen tell me, within the tomb that displays a skull that they all refer to as Geronimo.”

“The preoccupation with bones, mortality, with coffins, lying in coffins, standing around coffins, all this sort of thing I think is designed to give them the sense that, and it's very true, life is short,” says Rosenbaum. “You can spend it, if you have a privileged background, enjoying yourself, contributing nothing, or you can spend it making a contribution.”

And plenty of Bonesmen have made a contribution, from William Howard Taft, the 27th President; Henry Luce, the founder of Time Magazine; and W. Averell Harriman, the diplomat and confidant of U.S. presidents.

“What's important about the undergraduate years of Skull and Bones, as opposed to fraternities, is that it imbues them with a kind of mission for moral leadership,” says Rosenbaum. “And it's something that they may ignore for 30 years of their life, as George W. Bush seemed to successfully ignore it for quite a long time. But he came back to it.”

Mr. Bush, like his father and grandfather before him, has refused to talk openly about Skull and Bones. But as a Bonesman, he was required to reveal his innermost secrets to his fellow Bones initiates.

“They're supposed to recount their entire sexual histories in sort of a dim, a dimly-lit cozy room. The other 14 members are sitting on plush couches, and the lights are dimmed,” says Robbins. “And there's a fire roaring. And the, this activity is supposed to last anywhere from between one to three hours.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s the point of this?

”I believe the point of the year in the tomb is to forge such a strong bond between these 15 new members that after they graduate, for them to betray Skull and Bones would mean they'd have to betray their 14 closest friends,” says Robbins.

One can't help but make certain comparisons with the mafia, for example. Secret society, bonding, stakes may be a little higher in one than the other. But everybody knows everything about everybody, which is a form of protection.

“I think Skull and Bones has had slightly more success than the mafia in the sense that the leaders of the five families are all doing 100 years in jail, and the leaders of the Skull and Bones families are doing four and eight years in the White House,” says Rosenbaum.

Bones is not restricted to the Republican Party. Yet another Bonesman has his eye on the Oval Office: Senator John Kerry, Democrat, Skull & Bones 1966.

“It is fascinating isn't it? I mean, again, all the people say, ‘Oh, these societies don't matter. The Eastern Establishment is in decline.’ And you could not find two more quintessential Eastern establishment, privileged guys,” says Rosenbaum. “I remember when I was a nerdy scholarship student in the reserve book room at, at the Yale Library, and John Kerry, who at that point styled himself ‘John F. Kerry’ would walk in.”

“There was always a little buzz,” adds Rosenbaum. “Because even then he was seen to be destined for higher things. He was head of the Yale Political Union, and a tap for Skull and Bones was seen as the natural sequel to that.”

David Brooks, a conservative commentator who has published a book on the social dynamics of the upwardly mobile, says that while Skull & Bones may be elite and secret, it's anything but exciting.

“My view of secret societies is they're like the first class cabin in airplanes. They're really impressive until you get into them, and then once you're there they're a little dull. So you hear all these conspiracy theories about Skull and Bones,” says Brooks.

“And to me, to be in one of these organizations, you have to have an incredibly high tolerance for tedium 'cause you're sittin' around talking, talking, and talking. You're not running the world, you're just gassing.”

Gassing or not, the best-connected white man's club in America has moved reluctantly into the 21st Century.

“Skull and Bones narrowly endorsed admitting women,” says Robbins. “The day before these women were supposed to be initiated, a group of Bonesmen, including William F. Buckley, obtained a court order to block the initiation claiming that letting women into the tomb would lead to date rape. Again more legal wrangling; finally it came down to another vote and women were admitted and initiated.”

But Skull & Bones now has women, and it’s become more multicultural.

“It has gays who got the SAT scores, it's got the gays who got the straight A's,” says Brooks. “It's got the blacks who are the president of the right associations. It's different criteria. More multicultural, but it's still an elite, selective institution.”

On balance, it may be bizarre, but on a certain perspective, does it provide something of value?

“You take these young strivers, you put them in this weird castle. They spill their guts with each other, fine. But they learn something beyond themselves. They learn a commitment to each other, they learn a commitment to the community,” says Brooks. “And maybe they inherit some of those old ideals of public service that are missing in a lot of other parts of the country.”

And is that relationship, in some cases, stronger than family or faith?

“Absolutely,” says Robbins. “You know, they say, they say the motto at Yale is, ‘For God, for country, and for Yale.’ At Bones, I would think it's ‘For Bones.'”


can you really be a christain and be a bonesmen and engage in occult rituals ?




Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove (Reprise) (Alex Jones)
All time views: 148 »


AEJ Productions
1 hr 31 min 36 sec - 14-Mar-06
www.infowars.com

 

[Darwin]

I was indicting religion in general...which includes blind, unquestioning adherence to secular doctrines.

Agree with you there. To believe in something just because others have believed in it before, and that it makes you feel good inside or whatever, without any proof at all, is not a good thing, imo.

Stop trusting in some damn ridiculous made up characters to make things right. Kick out any politicians who, like the kings of old, say that God is backing them up and therefore they are right in whatever atrocities they are trying to explain away with religion. It's been done for thousands of years, you would think people would be catching on, now when we know that the world is not flat and that the planet Earth is not the centre of the universe, all created 12,000 years ago.. etc...

 

[Annie]

I was indicting religion in general...which includes blind, unquestioning adherence to secular doctrines.

My point was that there are non-secular organizations, that many 'enlightened' ones follow just as blindly as some follow secular. On the other hand, there are plenty of believers and non-believers that have no problem forming their own, rational choices.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

My point was that there are non-secular organizations, that many 'enlightened' ones follow just as blindly as some follow secular. On the other hand, there are plenty of believers and non-believers that have no problem forming their own, rational choices.

Liberal Democrats in this country come to mind. They have a blind unreasoning hatred of a President.

 

[Darwin]

Believing in God, Jesus, Allah, Nirvana, ghosts, elves and Santa Claus is all quite irrational in the world I live in. Millions of children believe in Santa Claus, this does not make him real. Millions of people believe in God, this does not make "God" real either...

What I hear when people start to discuss religion as if it was something to be taken seriously, except for the damage it does to our societies of course, is mostly "blah blah blah blah god blah blah jesus blah blah blah blah...."

Raving lunatics.

 

[Darwin]

<snip>
that many 'enlightened' ones follow just as blindly as some follow secular.
<snip>

Can you give some examples of people blindly following "secular"? Not sure what you are talking about there.

 

[Annie]

Can you give some examples of people blindly following "secular"? Not sure what you are talking about there.

My bad, I was using terms as I understood Bully to do, though they seemed 'off'. Secular: ActNow, Act Up, Answer all have followers that haven't a clue. As do the religious through Christian, Jewish, and Muslim entities.

 

[jillian]

Liberal Democrats in this country come to mind. They have a blind unreasoning hatred of a President.

If that were true, it would be only democrats who think he's an incompetent. Seems there's a pretty general consensus (except for the few apologists left) that he's been a disaster. But being a blind partisan, you wouldn't get that.

For the record, believing he is incompetent is not the same as hatred. I wish him a long happy life... in Crawford and far away from where he can continue to damage this country.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If that were true, it would be only democrats who think he's an incompetent. Seems there's a pretty general consensus (except for the few apologists left) that he's been a disaster. But being a blind partisan, you wouldn't get that.

For the record, believing he is incompetent is not the same as hatred. I wish him a long happy life... in Crawford and far away from where he can continue to damage this country.

Before he was elected and every day since a myriad of Liberal Democrats have had a blind pavlovian response to George Bush. Hell they can not decide from one minute to the next if he is a Genius or a moron, A schemeing evil despot or a boob lead around by the nose... I can go on and on with the unreasoning idiocy of Liberal democrats. We have been subjected to 7 years of their babble.

 

[Larkinn]

Liberal Democrats in this country come to mind. They have a blind unreasoning hatred of a President.

Of course they do for you. I notice you don't point out the irrational hatred of the right. You condemn everyone else for being partisan, perhaps you ought to clean your own house before moralizing so much.

Before he was elected and every day since a myriad of Liberal Democrats have had a blind pavlovian response to George Bush. Hell they can not decide from one minute to the next if he is a Genius or a moron, A schemeing evil despot or a boob lead around by the nose... I can go on and on with the unreasoning idiocy of Liberal democrats. We have been subjected to 7 years of their babble.

Psst...I'll let you in on a secret of Liberal Democrats. They don't have secret meetings where everyone discusses what beliefs to have so they can have a united front to the world...in fact some Liberal Democrats even *gasp* disagree with other Liberal Democrats. I know...the idea is startling to you, but its true.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Of course they do for you. I notice you don't point out the irrational hatred of the right. You condemn everyone else for being partisan, perhaps you ought to clean your own house before moralizing so much.



Psst...I'll let you in on a secret of Liberal Democrats. They don't have secret meetings where everyone discusses what beliefs to have so they can have a united front to the world...in fact some Liberal Democrats even *gasp* disagree with other Liberal Democrats. I know...the idea is startling to you, but its true.

Your moronic drivel is a tad old Larkinn and it is factually incorrect. Of the two of us your the one that has never managed to ever notice any problem with your side of the political fence.

 

[Larkinn]

Your moronic drivel is a tad old Larkinn and it is factually incorrect. Of the two of us your the one that has never managed to ever notice any problem with your side of the political fence.

You don't point out the problems on the right RGS. Its completely obvious. And I have pointed out problems in the left. As I've said before, I was against pulling out of Iraq for a very long time.

 

[Larkinn]

Your moronic drivel is a tad old Larkinn and it is factually incorrect. Of the two of us your the one that has never managed to ever notice any problem with your side of the political fence.

And PS...if you don't want to hear my moronic drivel, how bout managing to refrain from your diahhrea of the fingers when you spew the same old tired insults about me on several different threads. I responded to this crap before, and then you just stopped posting in that thread and make the same accusations in a new thread. Get a fucking life.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And PS...if you don't want to hear my moronic drivel, how bout managing to refrain from your diahhrea of the fingers when you spew the same old tired insults about me on several different threads. I responded to this crap before, and then you just stopped posting in that thread and make the same accusations in a new thread. Get a fucking life.

Your the one that runs away, when your claims become to ignorant even for your word games to hide.

WE have been round this before, you moron. I have called right wing or conservative members of this board on bad , misleading or incorrect statements. You on the other hand have NEVER said one word EVER about any liberal poster, no matter how bad they get.

By the way, you forgot to remind us again of how smart you are, maybe you should tell us your IQ and remind us of the classes you attend that a retard like me would never be able to get into.