Another Modest Proposal

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Liability, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Liability
    Offline

    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    35,447
    Thanks Received:
    5,049
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Mansion in Ravi's Head
    Ratings:
    +5,064
    Something happened yesterday here that made me ponder politics in a new light.

    I found myself agreeing with an avowed lib on the topic of taxation.

    [ Forget the details, one of us might have to change our minds. :razz: ]

    But that's not the point. The thing of it is this:

    We are all familiar with the slightly over-used expression that the "We should not allow the Perfect to become the enemy of the Good." In other words, for every problem there are a range of possible solutions. And if we are looking to fix a problem, we are not going to get there if we insist on "perfection" as the sole permissible option, since few of us will ever agree on what even constitutes "perfection."

    Back to taxes, then.

    If an avowed and ardent liberal and I can agree that a form of "flat tax" that incorporates SOME elements of a progressive structure is a potentially desirable outcome, then why should we permit the demands of the extremes on either end of the political spectrum to derail that effort?

    It's akin to a discussion (on that other board) I once participated in involving the issue of "abortion." Some of my conservative colleagues and I agreed with each other (and with a few liberals, too) that it would be an enormous first step if we could get some limits on abortion even if only to the extent that it would no longer be available merely as a matter of "convenience." More strident opponents of abortion would take us to task -- since our proposal would NOT end abortion. And they were right up to a point. It wouldn't. But I felt (and some of my conservative friends also felt) that a move to CUT the massive number of abortions would at least be a rational first step.

    It makes me wonder what other political issues MIGHT actually be subject to a give and take approach? If I am seeking movement at least in the right direction, why should I oppose a plan that accomplishes such movement merely because it doesn't get us all the way to the promised land right away?

    Not all compromise is necessarily a dirty word.

    Thus endeth the ramble.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 3
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  2. uscitizen
    Offline

    uscitizen Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    45,941
    Thanks Received:
    4,791
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    My Shack
    Ratings:
    +4,807
    Like the compromise on paygo? the logical first step in getting a handle on spending.
     
  3. Liability
    Offline

    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    35,447
    Thanks Received:
    5,049
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Mansion in Ravi's Head
    Ratings:
    +5,064
    There may be more than one "compromise" being considered on pay as you go.

    Would you mind clarifying which compromise you have in mind? Specifically, how does the compromise you have in mind work to address the desired outcome and the various objections?
     
  4. uscitizen
    Offline

    uscitizen Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    45,941
    Thanks Received:
    4,791
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    My Shack
    Ratings:
    +4,807
    the comprimise is to enact it by voting for it.

    The dems sponsoring it seems to be the biggest objection the cons have against voting for it.
     
  5. Oddball
    Offline

    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    41,428
    Thanks Received:
    8,397
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Drinking wine, eating cheese, catching rays
    Ratings:
    +8,409
    Some issues --this being one of them-- don't lend themselves to this kind of compromise.

    As I've pointed out numerous times, the current incredibly incomprehensible tax code stared out its journey as just such a "flat tax". What we've discovered is that if you give politicians the opening to tinker with taxation as a way to reward "good" behavior and punish the "bad", and/or pay off friends and sanction enemies, they'll abuse it every time.

    Like there was no middle ground in outlawing slavery, the "experiment" with direct taxes on incomes, the 16th Amendment and the IRS need to be scrapped altogether.

    Yes, we're throwing out the baby with the bath water....It's Rosemary's baby.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  6. edthecynic
    Offline

    edthecynic Censored for Cynicism

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    26,672
    Thanks Received:
    3,087
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Ratings:
    +5,731
    My compromise to letting Bush's tax cuts expire as Obama wants and making them permanent as the GOP wants, is to stimulate the economy and create AMERICAN jobs by REPLACING each of Bush's tax cuts when they expire or sooner, DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, with a cut in the job killing payroll taxes.

    This would give the American wage earner an immediate increase in take home pay to spend on a regular basis stimulating demand without costing the employer a single penny, and the businesses that employ Americans would have an immediate cut in the cost of labor without downsizing or outsourcing a single American job as well as saving them the expense of compliance.

    The businesses that employ the most AMERICANS will get the most benefit from the tax cuts, exactly the group you would want to benefit most from tax cuts!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  7. Liability
    Offline

    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    35,447
    Thanks Received:
    5,049
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Mansion in Ravi's Head
    Ratings:
    +5,064
    I was almost there. I ALMOST thought you were going to post seriously instead of just partisanly.

    But the truth is, you are just spouting liberal democrat talking pointlesses.

    PAYGO as currently proposed by the Obama Administration is part and parcel of a big bill that incorporates various exceptions and exemptions. In other words, it doesn't do -- it is not even designed to do -- what its name falsely promises.

    If you want to discuss compromise, don't come back with an all or nothing take it or leave it partisan attack post. It only shows that you aren't serious.

    Compromise, properly and honestly understood, means a lot of different things. ONE of those things would involve true debate on which things should be on a list of exemptions and which things should NOT be on that list. And the rational of which things are included or excluded cannot themselves be merely cheap political theater.

    -- Congressman Pence. See: Conservative Nation (a link to an audio version of Pence's speech is available there.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  8. Charles Stucker
    Offline

    Charles Stucker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,071
    Thanks Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +225
    We, as a nation face two problems from congress. While I am tempted to say they are the Republican and Democratic party, that would be frivolous; the problems are lack of accountability in Taxing and in Spending. Spending is a way for politicians to reward their constituents; not always through direct pork, but rather through directing programs with a semblance of legitimacy through their supporters hands. Runaway spending creates a problem; how do you pay for it all? Politicians see taxes as the way out of any financial trouble and cannot perceive how damaging they are to the nation's economic health. However they do understand that people have a limit to how hard they will work to pay ever increasing taxes so they create a deficit and debt on the conceit that they will pay it back when things are better. I use the term conceit as anyone who has examined the US federal government's record over the last 80 years realizes they do not pay off the debt but rather are in the habit of simply accruing ever more.

    Perhaps though I am wrong, we as a nation face only one problem in congress; politicians.
     
  9. Darkwind
    Offline

    Darkwind Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    14,152
    Thanks Received:
    2,593
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +4,265
    Well, I agree. But it is nice to go all the way once in a while. :razz:
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

content