Another Islamist in the West Kills His Own Child - You BASTARD!

[Sunni Man]

The best source of information on Islam is the western world.

That is one of the most idiotic statements about Islam I have ever read.

Devout Islamic scholars in the Middle East have studied and written about Islam and it's theology for over a thousand years. There is nothing in the West that can even come close these great scholarly works,


mdn the Quran is the center of Islam. So all other texts and ideas must be judged in the light of what the Quran says and teaches.

Same with the Bible. It is the center piece of Christianity. So all other texts and theology must be judged as to how it aligns to the Bible.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

8:7. Though God promised that one of two columns (would fall to you), you desired the one that was not armed. But God wished to confirm the truth by His words, and wipe the unbelievers out to the last,

 

[Kalam]

What is the meaning of the word "tayammum"

Permissible, yes, though modern conveniences have rendered it unnecessary for most people. Still, I doubt anyone could argue that bull piss is an acceptable substitute for dust.

I am aware of the ritual. I just thought those playing along at home would like to see what it means when you use words like " Only" and "not disputed".

Only clean water may be used; this is not disputed .

My intention was clearly to deceive. God knows what would happen if people found out that dust can be used in ablutions.

 

[Kalam]

There you have it folks, justifying crimes for Islam

Nothing Muhammad (SAWS) did was a crime.

They were not oppressors, they were people who did not like being robbed by Mohammad and did not want to be muslims.

Your contention is that the Makkans did not oppress the Muslims?

Mohammad evolve from lying beggar to murderous thief in medina after proving himself a fraud in Mecca.
His lies forced him into poverty .

He struck back ,at those who tired of his lies after a decade of his harassment and took to raiding the same caravans he used to lead .

Yes, that's quite nice and all, but your version of the Hijra and the life of Muhammad (SAWS) unfortunately has no basis in historical fact.

 

[Kalam]

So much for no compulsion in religion and defense jihad only.

I'm sorry; copying and pasting a tafsir from the Middle Ages does not address my post. Please do so yourself. If you are unable to, say so.

 

[obama2ndterm]

Ghoo93, you bigoted piece of SHIT.,if you hate it so much you should move!

 

[Kalam]

Kalem, what do you know, you know enough to completely ignore what this topic is about and for good reason, again you speak of "disbeleivers" when this topic is about APOSTASY.

No, the topic of this discussion is not apostasy. Try again.

Two books, yep, just two, of course I possess over a hundred books on the Middle East.

Coloring books don't count. You claim to be familiar with Islam, yet you didn't know that the Qur'an is the religion's most important book or that Sahih Bukhari is a hadith collection.

Kalem, if you know so much and am so smart why did you state the two book I listed were from "western orientalist", one was written by the Russian consulate to Persia, last time I checked Russia is not the "west".

Check again. Moscow lies west of the Ural Mountains. That's "the West."

Books, very few written by Arabs, very, very, few.

Here are some books written by Muslims that you may want to read:

Qur'an - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sahih al-Bukhari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sahih Muslim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Al-Sunan al-Sughra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sunan Abu Dawood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sunan al-Tirmidhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sunan ibn Maja - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mishkat al-Masabih - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Al-Muwatta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To dismiss Doughty shows pure igorance, but that seems to be what your about. Dismissing all information coming from the west as biased againt the poor Moslems.

What's ignorant is claiming that you know more about Islam than a Muslim because you read the travel diary of a 19th-century Englishman.

Yes, you know nothing of purification, hence you refer to the lesser purification and not the "Great" purification in which I specifically was speaking of.

No, that would be incorrect. I was referring to ghusl, which is a complete ablution. Partial ablution is known as wudu. Everything I posted about ablution is entire factual, based on ahadith that I cited and the fact that I perform ablutions every day per religious requirements. Don't be a fool.

Here Kalem is obviously refering to "stoning to death" or chopping of the head off of infidel,

Not really.

funny that the two most common methods does not involve an act that touches the unclean corpse.

Please post any data you have indicating that the aforementioned types of murder are the two most commonly used against apostates.

Kalem ignored the Hadith, specifically concentrating on the Qur'an,

I'd call you a liar, but I'm convinced that you really are this stupid.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: A Bedouin gave the Pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle for Islam and the Bedouin got a fever where upon he said to the Prophet "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet refused. He came to him (again) saying, "Cancel my Pledge.' But the Prophet refused. Then (the Bedouin) left (Medina). Allah's Apostle said: "Medina is like a pair of bellows: It expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good."

- Sahih Bukhari, Ahkaam (Judgment), no. 316

The same account is related in numbers 318 and 323 of that book, as well as no. 424 of book 92 ("Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah.")

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet came across me in one of the streets of Medina and at that time I was Junub. So I slipped away from him and went to take a bath. On my return the Prophet said, "O Abu Huraira! Where have you been?" I replied, "I was Junub, so I disliked to sit in your company." The Prophet said, "Subhan Allah! A believer never becomes impure."[/I] - Sahih Bukhari, Ghusl, no. 281

• Sexual intercourse or any kind of sexual discharge (Sahih Muslim, Haid, no. 616 and others)
• Reaching puberty - full ablution is required every Friday (Sahih Bukhari, Characteristics of Prayer, no. 817)
• Dying (Sahih Bukhari, Janaaiz)

If you did not know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are hadith collections, I'd go ahead and leave the discussion now if I were you. You don't have much face left to save.

So speak of disbelievers, the woman would not be treated as a disbeliever, she was treated as someone guilty of Apostasy.

The victim of the crime was not an apostate.

Do I know more of Islam than Kalem, I think so,

Then you're deluding yourself. You do not know more about Islam than I do. Realize this.

Kalem is not familiar with the most relevant book written in the west, if all you read is the Qur'an and the Hadith, dismissing the unbiased western scholarly works than its Kalem that has limited Kalem's knowledge.

If you believe that the accounts of orientalists are unbiased or necessary to understanding Islam, you're a fool. Please, I'm begging you, go and tell Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa or Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi that you know more about Islam than they do. After all, I doubt they've read as many Western accounts of the Middle East as you have.

This was demonstrated by Kalem's ignorance of the use of Urine,

Please demonstrate -- using Islamic scripture or the jurisprudential writings of any major madhhab -- that "bull urine" is an acceptable substitute for water in ghusl or wudu. Thank you.

this was demonstrated by Kalem's inability to address Apostasy.

Apostasy has been addressed. It is not the subject of this discussion.

This was demonstrated by Kalem defining the conditions and terms of study one must take to credible.

Please consult the syllabus of any major Islamic university and get back to me on how many 19th-century travel logs are part of the curriculum.

Kalem states "knowledge of Islam requires familiarizing oneself with Islamic scripture, jurisprudential resources, and other religious writings." Knowledge of Islam can be attained in many ways, a strawman arguement to define the terms of one who is credible.

Wrong. Knowledge of Islam requires knowledge of the texts that define Islam. These are the Qur'an and the major hadith collections. Certain commentaries, biographies, and manuals of fiqh can be useful as well. It's evident that you've read none of these things. Stop embarrassing yourself by claiming that you know more about Islam than I do.

Knowledge of Islam is better understood by studying the history of Islam, only by the study of history, only by the study of the culture and practise of the people of Islam can one see how people practise their beliefs.

The relevant history of Islam (ie: the history of the life of the prophet SAWS) is contained within the ahadith. One can learn about Islam by reading hadith collections and the Qur'an, which explain in detail how Islam is to be practiced.

Me, I will continue the higher course of study, the collecting and reading of the thousands of book written by nonbiased credible persons who have first have experience not as mere travelers but as persons living in the midst of the culture of Islam.

By all means, continue to claim that you're a "scholar of Islam" when you're completely unfamiliar with its foundational texts.

So take the last work Kalem, qoute the Qur'an which any true scholar knows is not the last nor most complete word on Apostasy.

I cite the Qur'an, and you claim that it isn't the most important text in Islam. I cite ahadith, and you claim that I haven't. I cite the works that define Islam, and you claim that one can only understand Islam through worthless travel books that were written some 1200 years after the foundation of the religion. How oh how did we Muslims exist for 1200 years without brilliant "scholars of Islam" such as yourself and Doughty to explain our own religion to us? You're dismissed, fool.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

So much for no compulsion in religion and defense jihad only.

I'm sorry; copying and pasting a tafsir from the Middle Ages does not address my post. Please do so yourself. If you are unable to, say so.

Islam was formed in the middle ages
Yeah thats great and all, but there is one hitch in your plan.
People can read.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1650682-post273.html

Just produce proof Ibn kathirs Tasfir is unreliable.


Ibn Kathir born in 1302 AD was scholar of History and a mufassir (Qur'an commentator) . He was renowned for his great memory regarding the sayings of Muhammad and the entire Qur'an.

Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary of the Qur'an named Tafsir ibn Kathir which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation. Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, and is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today. This site introduces the reader to one of the most Authentic books for explaining the Quran using both arabic and english text to grasp the understanding of the Quran.
Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Home

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Kalem, what do you know, you know enough to completely ignore what this topic is about and for good reason, again you speak of "disbeleivers" when this topic is about APOSTASY.

No, the topic of this discussion is not apostasy. Try again.

Two books, yep, just two, of course I possess over a hundred books on the Middle East.

Coloring books don't count. You claim to be familiar with Islam, yet you didn't know that the Qur'an is the religion's most important book or that Sahih Bukhari is a hadith collection.


Check again. Moscow lies west of the Ural Mountains. That's "the West."


Here are some books written by Muslims that you may want to read:

Qur'an - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sahih al-Bukhari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sahih Muslim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Al-Sunan al-Sughra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sunan Abu Dawood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sunan al-Tirmidhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sunan ibn Maja - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mishkat al-Masabih - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Al-Muwatta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What's ignorant is claiming that you know more about Islam than a Muslim because you read the travel diary of a 19th-century Englishman.


No, that would be incorrect. I was referring to ghusl, which is a complete ablution. Partial ablution is known as wudu. Everything I posted about ablution is entire factual, based on ahadith that I cited and the fact that I perform ablutions every day per religious requirements. Don't be a fool.


Not really.


Please post any data you have indicating that the aforementioned types of murder are the two most commonly used against apostates.


I'd call you a liar, but I'm convinced that you really are this stupid.

​

If you did not know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are hadith collections, I'd go ahead and leave the discussion now if I were you. You don't have much face left to save.


The victim of the crime was not an apostate.


Then you're deluding yourself. You do not know more about Islam than I do. Realize this.


If you believe that the accounts of orientalists are unbiased or necessary to understanding Islam, you're a fool. Please, I'm begging you, go and tell Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa or Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi that you know more about Islam than they do. After all, I doubt they've read as many Western accounts of the Middle East as you have.


Please demonstrate -- using Islamic scripture or the jurisprudential writings of any major madhhab -- that "bull urine" is an acceptable substitute for water in ghusl or wudu. Thank you.


Apostasy has been addressed. It is not the subject of this discussion.


Please consult the syllabus of any major Islamic university and get back to me on how many 19th-century travel logs are part of the curriculum.


Wrong. Knowledge of Islam requires knowledge of the texts that define Islam. These are the Qur'an and the major hadith collections. Certain commentaries, biographies, and manuals of fiqh can be useful as well. It's evident that you've read none of these things. Stop embarrassing yourself by claiming that you know more about Islam than I do.


The relevant history of Islam (ie: the history of the life of the prophet SAWS) is contained within the ahadith. One can learn about Islam by reading hadith collections and the Qur'an, which explain in detail how Islam is to be practiced.

Me, I will continue the higher course of study, the collecting and reading of the thousands of book written by nonbiased credible persons who have first have experience not as mere travelers but as persons living in the midst of the culture of Islam.

By all means, continue to claim that you're a "scholar of Islam" when you're completely unfamiliar with its foundational texts.

So take the last work Kalem, qoute the Qur'an which any true scholar knows is not the last nor most complete word on Apostasy.

I cite the Qur'an, and you claim that it isn't the most important text in Islam. I cite ahadith, and you claim that I haven't. I cite the works that define Islam, and you claim that one can only understand Islam through worthless travel books that were written some 1200 years after the foundation of the religion. How oh how did we Muslims exist for 1200 years without brilliant "scholars of Islam" such as yourself and Doughty to explain our own religion to us? You're dismissed, fool.

Argumentum ad nauseum

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

There you have it folks, justifying crimes for Islam

Nothing Muhammad (SAWS) did was a crime.

Everything Mohammad did was a crime .
His lies against God constitute a crime .
Islam is an ongoing crime against humanity .

 

[Sunni Man]

Everything Mohammad did was a crime .
His lies against God constitute a crime .

Then Mr Fitnuts you should go down to the local police dept. and file a complaint against him

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Everything Mohammad did was a crime .
His lies against God constitute a crime .

Then Mr Fitnuts you should go down to the local police dept. and file a complaint against him

Thats pretty funny Mr. Nazi, have a laugh at this.
Muslims should be arrested, prosecuted and incarcerated under the RICO act.

 

[Kalam]

Yeah thats great and all, but there is one hitch in your plan.
People can read.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1650682-post273.html

Just produce proof Ibn kathirs Tasfir is unreliable.

I have. It's hinged on a view of naskh that is inconsistent with the Qur'an and with reality:

I have shown it to be true on a number of occasions; you cling to falsities because you realize that acknowledging the truth would deprive your hilariously pathetic Islamophobia of a rational basis. I'm sure that you're not even familiar with the development of the theory of internal naskh. As time has passed and knowledge has increased, a progressively fewer number of verses have been regarded as "abrogated." During the Medieval period, for example, varying numbers of passages were thought to be affected by internal abrogation - Imam Jalaluddin Al-Suyuti eventually demonstrated that no more than 21 verses could have been abrogated.

The possibly abrogated verses -- as recognized by Suyuti -- are as follows:

• 2:180 (by 2:181)
• 2:184 (by 2:185)
• 2:183 (by 2:187)
• 2:217 (by 9:36)
• 2:240 (by 2:234)
• 2:284 (by 2:286)
• 3:102 (by 64:16)
• 4:33 (by 8:75)
• 4:8
• 4:15
• 5:2
• 5:42 (by 5:49)
• 5:106 (by 65:2)
• 8:65 (by 8:66)
• 9:41 (by 24:61, 9:91, and 9:122)
• 24:3 (by 24:32)
• 24:58
• 33:52 (by 33:33)
• 58:12 (by 58:13)
• 60:11
• 73:2

Suyuti's discussion of Naskh can be found in full here (for some reason, it's hosted on an Ahmadi website):
http://www.ahmadiyya.org/images_blog/nasikhmansukh.pdf

You will notice that 2:256 (Let there be no compulsion in religion...) and similar passages that I cite were not included by Suyuti in his list of abrogated verses.

What's more, renowned Indian scholar Shah Wahiullah (d. 1762) demonstrated in Al Faudhul Kabir fi Usoolut Tafsir that all but five of Suyuti's verses were unaffected by abrogation. We have now reduced this number to zero, as it's plainly obvious that the passages that supposedly explain internal naskh actually describe a form of naskh that involves the Qur'an taking precedence over previous scriptures. Like Maulana Muhammad Ali, eminent Sunni leader Maulana Maududi confirmed that the references were to the Qur'anic abrogation of Halakha. Excerpted from his tafsir, Tafhim al-Qur'an (regarding 2:106) -

Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

This is the answer to an objection which the Jews raised to create doubts in the minds of the Muslims. They argued this: "The Qur'an says that the former Scriptures had been sent down by Allah and that it had as well. If this is so, why does the Qur'an give commands that differ from those contained in the former Books? How can the same God give different commands at different times?" Besides, they said, "The Qur'an asserts that the Jews and the Christians have forgotten a part of the teachings sent down to them. How is it possible that the teachings of Allah could be obliterated from memory?" They did not raise these objections for the sake of arriving at the truth, but for the sake of creating mischief. Allah answers their objections thus: "I am the Sovereign and My powers are unlimited. I can repeal any order of Mine or allow it to be forgotten, but I substitute for it something that serves the same purpose better or at least equally well."​

 

[Kalam]

Argumentum ad nauseum

Read what the idiot wrote. Even you know more than he does.

 

[Kalam]

Everything Mohammad did was a crime .
His lies against God constitute a crime .
Islam is an ongoing crime against humanity .

I'll take this outburst of irrationality as an admission of defeat.

 

[Sunni Man]

Thats pretty funny Mr. Nazi, have a laugh at this.
Muslims should be arrested, prosecuted and incarcerated under the RICO act.

Maybe you should go to the Fed's and file a complaint against all 7 million Muslims in America for being part of an organized crime family.

I am sure they would like to hear your accusations and would take you seriously.

 

[Kalam]

Everything Mohammad did was a crime .
His lies against God constitute a crime .

Then Mr Fitnuts you should go down to the local police dept. and file a complaint against him

Thats pretty funny Mr. Nazi, have a laugh at this.
Muslims should be arrested, prosecuted and incarcerated under the RICO act.

Aww, SM made you angwy!

The irony of the "Mr. Nazi" insult is lost on you, I'm sure.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Thats pretty funny Mr. Nazi, have a laugh at this.
Muslims should be arrested, prosecuted and incarcerated under the RICO act.

Maybe you should go to the Fed's and file a complaint against all 7 million Muslims in America for being part of an organized crime family.

I am sure they would like to hear your accusations and would take you seriously.

The 7 million is a number created by CAIR.
The real number is somewhere between 1 and 2 million.

 

[Kalam]

The 7 million is a number created by CAIR.
The real number is somewhere between 1 and 2 million.

Should be easier to round 'em up, then, right?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Everything Mohammad did was a crime .
His lies against God constitute a crime .
Islam is an ongoing crime against humanity .

I'll take this outburst of irrationality as an admission of defeat.

That is what Islam does folks,
It scrambles your eggs.

You tell me,
Mohammed: OG or prophet of god?


Volume 4, Book 52, Number 163(a):
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

That the Prophet said, "My livelihood is under the shade of my spear (from war booty), and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated by paying the Jizya.