Annexing West Bank

[P F Tinmore]

Did he mention all of Judea and Samaria? Or just Area C?

Annexing Area C, and applying Israeli law over all of it, is just good for everyone. Start giving growth and building permits to the Arab Palestinians. Load them up with goodies. All the goodies.

The problem with this is that we would be creating another Gaza in Areas A and B. An island of Arab Palestine which would in all likelihood be required to be cut off and isolated as Gaza is. The question is whether or not people think that is a manageable problem. And how people think other Arab countries may respond.

I believe he mentioned all of the major settlement blocs as well as isolated settlements. He also said there would be a military presence in the Jordan Valley, and no Palestinian state because that would be a danger to Israel. Sounds like a pretty hefty chunk of the West Bank to me, if not all of it.

Annexing all of area C (part of Trump's deal of the century) can't work.

 

[Indeependent]

Did he mention all of Judea and Samaria? Or just Area C?

Annexing Area C, and applying Israeli law over all of it, is just good for everyone. Start giving growth and building permits to the Arab Palestinians. Load them up with goodies. All the goodies.

The problem with this is that we would be creating another Gaza in Areas A and B. An island of Arab Palestine which would in all likelihood be required to be cut off and isolated as Gaza is. The question is whether or not people think that is a manageable problem. And how people think other Arab countries may respond.

I believe he mentioned all of the major settlement blocs as well as isolated settlements. He also said there would be a military presence in the Jordan Valley, and no Palestinian state because that would be a danger to Israel. Sounds like a pretty hefty chunk of the West Bank to me, if not all of it.

Annexing all of area C (part of Trump's deal of the century) can't work.

Israel has the technology to send an unmanned ship to the moon; annexing area c is child’s play.

 

[rylah]

 

[Coyote]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

I think what is of greater concern is Netanyahu aligning himself with extremist rightwing parties in order to maintain his hold on power. These are groups formerly marginalized in Israeli politics for good reason. They are associated with terrorism, racist policies and policies which would endanger Israel's ideal as a democratic nation with western values.

I think annexation under the auspices of those groups could go very badly.

 

[Indeependent]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

I think what is of greater concern is Netanyahu aligning himself with extremist rightwing parties in order to maintain his hold on power. These are groups formerly marginalized in Israeli politics for good reason. They are associated with terrorism, racist policies and policies which would endanger Israel's ideal as a democratic nation with western values.

I think annexation under the auspices of those groups could go very badly.

Billionaires from around the world are buying state of the art homes and apartments in Israel.
They aren’t excited about Arabs blowing themselves up.

 

[Indeependent]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

I think what is of greater concern is Netanyahu aligning himself with extremist rightwing parties in order to maintain his hold on power. These are groups formerly marginalized in Israeli politics for good reason. They are associated with terrorism, racist policies and policies which would endanger Israel's ideal as a democratic nation with western values.

I think annexation under the auspices of those groups could go very badly.

Billionaires from around the world are buying state of the art homes and apartments in Israel.
They aren’t excited about Arabs blowing themselves up.

It’s actually a serious problem and is even posing issues for non-wealthy Jews who want to go on aliyah and can’t afford it.
Homes are in the 4 million dollar range.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not, "Pro Palestinian" here but believe whatever you like.
After WWII there was a message, 'never again.' Well, I find it ironic that those that got it during WWII are now & have been fucking over others for DECADES. They have done this with the blessings of many nations, mostly the US.

How do you figure that? What have they done to "others"?

Yes, keep pretending you don't see the tragedy that Israel has put the ME through, for many decades. Keep your head buried like one of those funny looking birds that don't fly; then you can keep asking that question the rest of your life.

What tragedy, Arab failure at complete domination of the entire middle east?

I'm sure you have enjoyed seeing hundreds of thousands of Pali children being starved, slaughtered, displaced from their homes, having no real economic opportunities, etc., for decades & decades. Very enjoyable, huh?
I bet you claim to be a Christian too; amirite?
Yep .........

How can the #3 richest terror organization with $700 Million to its name afford building facilities only for itself, and feeding only its members and those loyal to it?

I ask: why are there no Shelters for the people built for the population but only built for Hamas, PLO, Fatah and Islamic Jihad members?

Forbes Israel:The Richest Terror Organizations in the World 2018

Why indeed.

By the way, no Palestinians have starved in all of these decades you mention. There are truckloads of food being delivered to the people on a daily basis. Where does it all end up? Ask Hamas the elected government of Gaza.

Here is how "poor Gaza is" and that is the last we should talk about Gaza:







Who has a nice shelter from Israel's attacks, after rockets fly into Israel?

Hamas Builds Itself an Underground Lair

Here is Area A in "West Bank"

Where are they going to work?

 

[Shusha]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

 

[Lipush]

Yes.

Hopefully later on tonight, we'll know where this state is going.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

I think what is of greater concern is Netanyahu aligning himself with extremist rightwing parties in order to maintain his hold on power. These are groups formerly marginalized in Israeli politics for good reason. They are associated with terrorism, racist policies and policies which would endanger Israel's ideal as a democratic nation with western values.

I think annexation under the auspices of those groups could go very badly.

Surely, politically it would be a problem. i was looking at it from a practical standpoint. Cities are centers of regions. Moving out from the urban centers there are industrial zones and agriculture. If a city is cut off from its resources it cannot survive. Area C cuts the resources off from the cities.

For example: the Bethlehem district goes from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea. Right now, Bethlehem only controls 18% of its land. That can't work.

 

[Indeependent]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

I think what is of greater concern is Netanyahu aligning himself with extremist rightwing parties in order to maintain his hold on power. These are groups formerly marginalized in Israeli politics for good reason. They are associated with terrorism, racist policies and policies which would endanger Israel's ideal as a democratic nation with western values.

I think annexation under the auspices of those groups could go very badly.

Surely, politically it would be a problem. i was looking at it from a practical standpoint. Cities are centers of regions. Moving out from the urban centers there are industrial zones and agriculture. If a city is cut off from its resources it cannot survive. Area C cuts the resources off from the cities.

For example: the Bethlehem district goes from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea. Right now, Bethlehem only controls 18% of its land. That can't work.

Based on the many Jewish publications following the election, one of Netanyahu’s major issues is housing affordability.
He wants to start building affordable homes in what are considered “less attractive” areas.
It’s no coincidence that many national leaders are visiting Israel.

 

[Coyote]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

What laws specifically?

 

[Coyote]

Yes.

Hopefully later on tonight, we'll know where this state is going.

What do you want to see?

 

[Indeependent]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

What laws specifically?

Too many.
Israel goes way too far in protecting the rights of hostile residents.

 

[Coyote]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

What laws specifically?

Too many.
Israel goes way too far in protecting the rights of hostile residents.

Such as what laws in regards to annexation?

 

[Indeependent]

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

What laws specifically?

Too many.
Israel goes way too far in protecting the rights of hostile residents.

Such as what laws in regards to annexation?

I don’t know the laws because every time I read the explanation given by the “Right Wing” Jewish Press, I realize I’m not a lawyer.
Jews are really into protecting everybody’s right so it’s very difficult to take anything away from someone who isn’t caught red handed committing murder.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

“The challenge,” says Efroni, “is maintaining the status quo while guarding the interests of civilians in the area.”

Without saying it, I believe that MG Efroni may be eluding to the recently passed "Nation-State Law," which in my opinion does not do anything to clarify the status of the (non-Jewish) inhabitants in territory subject to Annexation.

I think this does little (at least as I see it) to clarify the concept of "defensive annexation." And although the law does not specifically deny the (non-Jewish) inhabitants their "right to self-determination," in the absence of expressions to the contrary, it certainly circumvented the question of their autonomous destiny.

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

What laws specifically?

(COMMENT)

The answer I usually get when I ask this question is that the Act of Annexation extends the Basic Laws of Israel into the territory annexed. And the inhabitants that become subject to the law are de facto citizens to that law.

It will be very important as to how the nation of Israel applies those laws. The answer is nowhere near obvious.

Most Respectfully,
R
ANNEX (As I understand it from The Time of Israel)
Basic Law: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People

 

[rylah]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

“The challenge,” says Efroni, “is maintaining the status quo while guarding the interests of civilians in the area.”

Without saying it, I believe that MG Efroni may be eluding to the recently passed "Nation-State Law," which in my opinion does not do anything to clarify the status of the (non-Jewish) inhabitants in territory subject to Annexation.

I think this does little (at least as I see it) to clarify the concept of "defensive annexation." And although the law does not specifically deny the (non-Jewish) inhabitants their "right to self-determination," in the absence of expressions to the contrary, it certainly circumvented the question of their autonomous destiny.

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

What laws specifically?

(COMMENT)

The answer I usually get when I ask this question is that the Act of Annexation extends the Basic Laws of Israel into the territory annexed. And the inhabitants that become subject to the law are de facto citizens to that law.

It will be very important as to how the nation of Israel applies those laws. The answer is nowhere near obvious.

Most Respectfully,
R
ANNEX (As I understand it from The Time of Israel)
Basic Law: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People

First of all the Nation Law does define all citizens of Israel as subjects of the Jewish state, specifically mentioning self determination. Jewish settlement is as well defined a national priority to be encouraged, promoted and its establishment strengthened.

Second, all lexicon of "Annexation" is wrong, and has a false connotation that Judea is not land belonging to the Jewish nation. Though media uses that term, the policies discussed in the Knesset refer to application of Israeli law, in terms of Sovereignty, International Law and Indigenous Rights.

Liberation forward.

 

[Shusha]

RE: Annexing West Bank
⁜→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

“The challenge,” says Efroni, “is maintaining the status quo while guarding the interests of civilians in the area.”

Without saying it, I believe that MG Efroni may be eluding to the recently passed "Nation-State Law," which in my opinion does not do anything to clarify the status of the (non-Jewish) inhabitants in territory subject to Annexation.

I think this does little (at least as I see it) to clarify the concept of "defensive annexation." And although the law does not specifically deny the (non-Jewish) inhabitants their "right to self-determination," in the absence of expressions to the contrary, it certainly circumvented the question of their autonomous destiny.

Whether or not annexing works depends on how it is handled in terms of citizenship and rights.

Israel has laws governing those things.

What laws specifically?

(COMMENT)

The answer I usually get when I ask this question is that the Act of Annexation extends the Basic Laws of Israel into the territory annexed. And the inhabitants that become subject to the law are de facto citizens to that law.

It will be very important as to how the nation of Israel applies those laws. The answer is nowhere near obvious.

Most Respectfully,
R
ANNEX (As I understand it from The Time of Israel)
Basic Law: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People

First of all the Nation Law does define all citizens of Israel as subjects of the Jewish state, specifically mentioning self determination. Jewish settlement is as well defined a national priority to be encouraged, promoted and its establishment strengthened.

Second, all lexicon of "Annexation" is wrong, and has a false connotation that Judea is not land belonging to the Jewish nation. Though media uses that term, the policies discussed in the Knesset refer to application of Israeli law, in terms of Sovereignty, International Law and Indigenous Rights.

Liberation forward.

I absolutely agree that the term "annexation" is incorrect. You can not annex what is already legally yours. Israel is simply going to apply Israeli law to territory it has legal right to and control of.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: West Bank
⁜→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

Yeah, I thought I would get some pushback here.

]

First of all the Nation Law does define all citizens of Israel as subjects of the Jewish state, specifically mentioning self determination. Jewish settlement is as well defined a national priority to be encouraged, promoted and its establishment strengthened.

(COMMENT)

I totally understand what you are saying. I was addressing the "Basic Law: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People → 1 — Basic principles:

A. The land of Israel is the historical homeland of the Jewish people, in which the State of Israel was established.
B. The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people, in which it fulfills its natural, cultural, religious and historical right to self-determination.
C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.​

It goes out of its way to specifically state "Jewish People;" not Israeli People and not inhabitance of a non-Jewish status.

This is what some people are afraid of.

Second, all lexicon of "Annexation" is wrong, and has a false connotation that Judea is not land belonging to the Jewish nation. Though media uses that term, the policies discussed in the Knesset refer to application of Israeli law, in terms of Sovereignty, International Law and Indigenous Rights.

(COMMENT)

Yes, that is what the conflict is all about. It is a territorial dispute.

• The Arab Palestinians say that Judea belongs to them.

• So when the Israelis extend Israeli Basic Law to cover that territory, it is a case of "Annexation" by sovereign extention by other means.​

It should be noted that many Arab Palestinians argue that the same territory is their territory and constitutes part of their state.

I absolutely agree that the term "annexation" is incorrect. You can not annex what is already legally yours. Israel is simply going to apply Israeli law to territory it has legal right to and control of.

(COMMENT)

This is only one perspective. The State of Israel, pre-1948 did not exist. I know that both sides have claims of history in depth of time; but neither claim is any more valid then if the Shawnee, the Chippewas, or the Ojibwa natives, attempt some claim to territory in Ohio. Ancient history simply does not figure into the matter. If Israel expects to defend itself in any legal confrontation → here → in the 21st Century it can not expect to win using 21 BC history.

(NOTE)

I support Israel on the basis of the need for such a state as having such sovereign laws that would insure the protection and preservation of the Jewish people and their culture from further abuse under the color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R