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Islam is un-reformable.
This has been a debate in mid east for centuries now, not a new thing.
For instance, islam allows man to beat up their woman and this is straight from god himself, word to word. As a muslim you either believe that, or play dumb. Reforming is not an option.
Judaism allows children who curse at their parents, to be killed.
So...you haven't followed the situation that led to Morsi's removal?
You have no opinion on whether his attempting to institute sharia is/was good for Egypt...and the position of Egypt in the modern world.
If Morsi represents political Islam....
are the recent events good for Egypt?
Allah is not God. He was a moon god. He did not have a Son named "Jesus Christ".
So...you haven't followed the situation that led to Morsi's removal?
On the contrary I've followed it quite closely.
You have no opinion on whether his attempting to institute sharia is/was good for Egypt...and the position of Egypt in the modern world.
Of course I do.
If Morsi represents political Islam....
No single person represents political Islam. all political Islam isn't the same. Morsi doesn't even represent all of the Political Islamists in Egypt. Al Nour, a much more conservative Islamist group in Egypt, turned against Morsi too, and the Egyptian Al Qaeda movement cheered Morsi's removal as well.
are the recent events good for Egypt?
No. Military coups generally speaking tend to work out quite poorly.
Meanwhile Jews throw stones at women in Jerusalem who don't wear long enough skirts.Islam is un-reformable.
This has been a debate in mid east for centuries now, not a new thing.
For instance, islam allows man to beat up their woman and this is straight from god himself, word to word. As a muslim you either believe that, or play dumb. Reforming is not an option.
Judaism allows children who curse at their parents, to be killed.
I've never seen Jewish people argue for their right to kill children who curse at them. And definitely never based on Judaism.
There are some that are unfortunately pro abortion. But that's more political than religious and they are hardly alone in advocating that unpleasant policy.
Security costs are paid whether they are in the country or not. What evidence is there that "they" steal any welfare?I don't see why we have to have a hostile attitude to any Muslim as long as they are not planning to attack us. I've met very many good and honorable Muslims and I am glad they are in the US to make it a better place. Not to mention they have a better chance of hearing the Gospel here than elsewhere.
Security costs are paid whether they are in the country or not. What evidence is there that "they" steal any welfare?I don't see why we have to have a hostile attitude to any Muslim as long as they are not planning to attack us. I've met very many good and honorable Muslims and I am glad they are in the US to make it a better place. Not to mention they have a better chance of hearing the Gospel here than elsewhere.
They are a scourge on our society. Just look at Dearbornistan. They steal welfare there at an alarming rate. They ALL want us dead/converted. Their Koran commands them to. They do NOT make the USA a better place. Most are vile, demonic, terror-supporters. They have no interest in the gospel. They want Sharia Law and world-dominance. Wake up and smell their jihad. They are NOT your friends.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
Muslims have committed 21,253 deadly terror attacks since 911!
They have killed 353 innocent people since the first day of Ramadan 2013.
What about all the Hasidic Jews that have 10 kids and all get welfare?Does that bother you too?
This seems more of an obfuscation than a post.
This seems more of an obfuscation than a post.
You seem to have a hard time actually responding to the content of posts. It rather seems like you aren't very confident about the quality of the material that you are putting forth. You certainly don't seem in any hurry to defend / support it.
Any who have a desire for peace in the world recognize the necessary reformation of the Moslem religion.
There is an intolerance that must be, at the least, mitigated.
History has borne witness to the same in other major religions.
1. Although Christianity in its many varieties was the religion of the original colonies, Christianity does not preach operational dominance over the body politic in America. Tocqueville compared this aspect to Islam:
“Mohammed professed to derive from Heaven, and has inserted in the Koran, not only religious doctrines, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and theories of science. The Gospel, on the contrary, speaks only of the general relations of men to God and to each other, beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith. This alone, besides a thousand other reasons, would suffice to prove that the former of these religions will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, while the latter is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods.”
Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” vol.2, p. 23.
But the upheavals in the Middle East may produce a change with less support among Moslems for Koran-directed governments.
2. "Arabs are flocking to support Egypt’s upheaval against political Islam.
....Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates pledged $12 billion in cash, fuel, food, wheat, interest-free loans, and gifts. Vast shipments of gasoline and wheat have poured in so fast that the four-hour standard waits at gasoline stations and a shortage of bread disappeared overnight.
3. ....the endorsement is also driven by the danger Islamists represent in these countries’ own backyards. On July 3, the day President Morsi was removed by the army in Cairo, a court at Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates, sentenced 61 professionals of the Muslim Brotherhood to between 10 and 25 years for plotting a coup.
4. Israeli strategists have long maintained a close cooperation with Egypt’s military and intelligence services, which has intensified in the past few days as the Egyptian army pursues Jihadists from Hamas in find-and-kill missions.
5. ....all this provided an opening, if only that, for a repressed Arab press. It is responding with attacks on political Islam, whose media vehicles in Egypt and elsewhere have been shut.
6. In a new vernacular, radical Islam emerges as malevolent monster conspiring against multi-sectarian, multi-religious, and multi-ethnic societies, advocating Wahhabi Islam, civil wars, and financial ruin.
7. The new pan-Arab cynicism is rooted in disappointments with such Islamist militias as Hezbollah and Hamas, piled upon multiple atrocities by Islamists against fellow Arabs in Algeria, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq and a loss of interest in the so-called “Peace Process” that has led nowhere.
8. Among all Arab countries, tiny Qatar stands on the opposite side of this socio-political divide....Qatar has set itself up as an unrivaled patron of political Islam....Al Jazeera's sole owners, the rulers of Qatar, have been so distraught by the turn of events they are turning their journalistic and diplomatic voices against the Egyptian army and people, advocating nothing less than “a war between Muslims and non-believers.” It is tantamount to a call for civil war.
9. Other regional enemies of Egypt’s Revolution Two include Turkey’s Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyeb Erdogan, and fellow travelers in Iran, Hamas and Tunisia. Watching their model of political Islam collapse in just about 10 days they are regrouping.....Qatar was told it could send no one, and no weapons into Gaza from Egypt anymore.
10. ...America is losing influence. With so much money entering their coffers, Egyptians are not concerned over threats to suspend an annual American stipend of $1.5 billion....A more innovative American approach would start with a public renunciation of political Islam as the anti-democratic and fascist practice it is for any people aspiring to liberty.
As Washington Dithers, Arabs Rally To Egypt’s Revolt Against Political Islam - The New York Sun
Could we be witnessing a sea change....a reformation???
The message of the OP is that both the overthrowing of Morsi and the response by the nations mentioned in the OP, represent a movement away from sharia,and a blind adherence to the Koran.
You seem to wish to change the subject.
That's not about to happen.
I'm the only poster who has given you a point by point response to your OP.a. that the events at issue have no such impact,
or
b. that any movement away from "sharia, and a blind adherence to the Koran" is unfortunate for Moslems,
please feel free to make your argument.
The message of the OP is that both the overthrowing of Morsi and the response by the nations mentioned in the OP, represent a movement away from sharia,and a blind adherence to the Koran.
You seem to wish to change the subject.
That's not about to happen.
Change the subject?
a. that the events at issue have no such impact,
or
b. that any movement away from "sharia, and a blind adherence to the Koran" is unfortunate for Moslems,
please feel free to make your argument.
I've already made comments on them which you have ignored. You don't really seem to take being disagreed with too well.
But I'll try to be more clear in my response here.
Military coups aren't good for democracy in general. It doesn't matter whether Islamists are involved in not; thus, the coup itself is a step backwards for Egypt in terms of its attempts at democratic reform, particularly given the Egyptian military's past aversion to democratic principles and their violations of the election law during the last presidential elections.
Furthermore, I think you have a couple of problems with the foundations of your assertions which are of vital importance and significance:
1.) There is no singular concept of political Islam, nor are all political Islamist groups the same in their ideologies and methodologies which rather rends your generalized question moot.
2.) A vast majority of Shariah law has little to nothing to do with the Quran, so I'm not sure why you keep talking about "blind adherance to the Quran" When it doesn't really have much connotation under the establishment of Shariah sets.
3.) I think you are ignoring also that Egypt has long been a state constitutionally based on Shariah law and Islam, even under Mubarak (Article 2 of the constitution under which he operated).
In the end, it is a major blow to democracy, it ousted a democratically elected leader, a democratically elected legislature, and tossed out a democractically approved consitution. Furthermore it strengthens violent Jihadist groups such as Al Qaeda and Ansar Al Sharia in Egypt who have long been enemies of the Muslim Brotherhood and who instit that democracy can create change.
Furthermore, if you are looking to reduce the Muslim Brotherhood's influence this was a poor way to go about it. If they carried out their term they would have lost much popular support anyway and probably would have been politically marginalized. Instead the military has put the Brotherhood back where it operates the best and most effectively: as an abused opposition party outside the realm of formal institutions.
The Muslim Brotherhood was doing quite poorly, and the military has given them the tools needed for a rebound, while at the same time strengthing the ideological calls of extremist groups such as Al Qaeda internationally. It's pretty sad actually.
An Moslem Reformation?? Did you mean...
A Muslim Reformation??
These are very specific:
a. that the events at issue have no such impact,
b. that any movement away from "sharia, and a blind adherence to the Koran" is unfortunate for Moslems,
...That is why I just yawn at the sinister and politically motivated Islamophobia which presently fulfulls the American addiction to being hysterical...
Everytime the Jews show the slightest shred of tolerance or willingness to give an inch, the Orthodox Muslims terrorize and murder all the more. Israel is a longstanding lesson to us all that the only way to address Orthodox/Extremist Islam is with overwhelming force.When Jews learn to become more tolerant, maybe Muslims will follow suit.
When Jews and Israelis honor Jewish terrorists and Jewish terrorism, they have no business comdemning Muslim terrorism.
