An Moslem Reformation??

PoliticalChic

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Any who have a desire for peace in the world recognize the necessary reformation of the Moslem religion.

There is an intolerance that must be, at the least, mitigated.
History has borne witness to the same in other major religions.



1. Although Christianity in its many varieties was the religion of the original colonies, Christianity does not preach operational dominance over the body politic in America. Tocqueville compared this aspect to Islam:

“Mohammed professed to derive from Heaven, and has inserted in the Koran, not only religious doctrines, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and theories of science. The Gospel, on the contrary, speaks only of the general relations of men to God and to each other, beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith. This alone, besides a thousand other reasons, would suffice to prove that the former of these religions will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, while the latter is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods.”
Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” vol.2, p. 23.




But the upheavals in the Middle East may produce a change with less support among Moslems for Koran-directed governments.




2. "Arabs are flocking to support Egypt’s upheaval against political Islam.
....Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates pledged $12 billion in cash, fuel, food, wheat, interest-free loans, and gifts. Vast shipments of gasoline and wheat have poured in so fast that the four-hour standard waits at gasoline stations and a shortage of bread disappeared overnight.

3. ....the endorsement is also driven by the danger Islamists represent in these countries’ own backyards. On July 3, the day President Morsi was removed by the army in Cairo, a court at Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates, sentenced 61 professionals of the Muslim Brotherhood to between 10 and 25 years for plotting a coup.





4. Israeli strategists have long maintained a close cooperation with Egypt’s military and intelligence services, which has intensified in the past few days as the Egyptian army pursues Jihadists from Hamas in find-and-kill missions.

5. ....all this provided an opening, if only that, for a repressed Arab press. It is responding with attacks on political Islam, whose media vehicles in Egypt and elsewhere have been shut.

6. In a new vernacular, radical Islam emerges as malevolent monster conspiring against multi-sectarian, multi-religious, and multi-ethnic societies, advocating Wahhabi Islam, civil wars, and financial ruin.

7. The new pan-Arab cynicism is rooted in disappointments with such Islamist militias as Hezbollah and Hamas, piled upon multiple atrocities by Islamists against fellow Arabs in Algeria, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq and a loss of interest in the so-called “Peace Process” that has led nowhere.






8. Among all Arab countries, tiny Qatar stands on the opposite side of this socio-political divide....Qatar has set itself up as an unrivaled patron of political Islam....Al Jazeera's sole owners, the rulers of Qatar, have been so distraught by the turn of events they are turning their journalistic and diplomatic voices against the Egyptian army and people, advocating nothing less than “a war between Muslims and non-believers.” It is tantamount to a call for civil war.

9. Other regional enemies of Egypt’s Revolution Two include Turkey’s Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyeb Erdogan, and fellow travelers in Iran, Hamas and Tunisia. Watching their model of political Islam collapse in just about 10 days they are regrouping.....Qatar was told it could send no one, and no weapons into Gaza from Egypt anymore.





10. ...America is losing influence. With so much money entering their coffers, Egyptians are not concerned over threats to suspend an annual American stipend of $1.5 billion....A more innovative American approach would start with a public renunciation of political Islam as the anti-democratic and fascist practice it is for any people aspiring to liberty.
As Washington Dithers, Arabs Rally To Egypt’s Revolt Against Political Islam - The New York Sun




Could we be witnessing a sea change....a reformation???
 
How about starting with getting ALL Muslims OUT of the USA, keeping them out and not letting any in. We would save billions in security...

911.jpg
 
If said reformation takes place, why would having Moslems in the nation be a problem?

Because they have been given EVERY opportunity to assimilate, contribute and be normal but most of them don't and support terrorism either directly or indirectly. Most admit they want Sharia Law, to dominate/rule/run the USA and to convert/kill infidels (Christians and Jews).

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

They are NOT our friends...:evil:

b2406_chart1.ashx


War on Terrorism: 40 Terrorist Attacks Foiled Since 9/11
 
If said reformation takes place, why would having Moslems in the nation be a problem?

Because they have been given EVERY opportunity to assimilate, contribute and be normal but most of them don't and support terrorism either directly or indirectly. Most admit they want Sharia Law, to dominate/rule/run the USA and to convert/kill infidels (Christians and Jews).

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

They are NOT our friends...:evil:

b2406_chart1.ashx


War on Terrorism: 40 Terrorist Attacks Foiled Since 9/11


I live in NYC and certainly don't discount what you say.....


....but I see the OP article as being, potentially, the biggest news of the year.

It realigns the Middle East, and shifts the political control on the leadership.


I hope.
 
Any who have a desire for peace in the world recognize the necessary reformation of the Moslem religion.

I think that your initial premise here is flawed as your base statement assumes the existence of a singular Islam within the world that we currently live; when in reality, no such thing actually exists. Islam isn't a monolith, nor has it ever been since Muhammad's death.

1. Although Christianity in its many varieties was the religion of the original colonies, Christianity does not preach operational dominance over the body politic in America.

The entire notion of dogmatic religion automatically inserts itself into and political body it comes into contact with. After all, what could be more important than God's law? Christianity is susceptible to this too and has been utilized heavily within politics in our own history. It even influences discourse today in the US from our overwhelming support for Israel, to minor issues such as abortion. While we don't have a state religion, we do have religious communities that vote their religion; which is only natural. Of course you're going to vote based on your opinion and if your opinion is rooting in religious doctrine then you are going to vote based on religious doctrine (depending on how important religion is to you personally vs. secular concerns. We, as humans, tend to focus more on secular concerns and Muslims are no exception to that).

Tocqueville compared this aspect to Islam:

“Mohammed professed to derive from Heaven, and has inserted in the Koran, not only religious doctrines, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and theories of science. The Gospel, on the contrary, speaks only of the general relations of men to God and to each other, beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith. This alone, besides a thousand other reasons, would suffice to prove that the former of these religions will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, while the latter is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods.”
Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” vol.2, p. 23.

i think this is a bit off for the point that you are trying to make here. The Quran isn't very detailed when it comes to day to day life and thus isn't a very extensive source for legal construction. This fact is the exact reason why Sharia law sets were developed in the first place among Muslim communities. they were meant to fill that legal void left by the Quran.

2. "Arabs are flocking to support Egypt’s upheaval against political Islam.
....Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates pledged $12 billion in cash, fuel, food, wheat, interest-free loans, and gifts. Vast shipments of gasoline and wheat have poured in so fast that the four-hour standard waits at gasoline stations and a shortage of bread disappeared overnight.

Once again, I think it's a bit analytically off to characterize the civil disruption in Egypt as an upheaval against political Islam. Even more highly Islamist parties than the Muslim Brotherhood turned against them.

4. Israeli strategists have long maintained a close cooperation with Egypt’s military and intelligence services, which has intensified in the past few days as the Egyptian army pursues Jihadists from Hamas in find-and-kill missions.

Morsi attacked Jihadists too. He sent the military to the Sinai while he was in office to do just that.

7. The new pan-Arab cynicism is rooted in disappointments with such Islamist militias as Hezbollah and Hamas, piled upon multiple atrocities by Islamists against fellow Arabs in Algeria, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq and a loss of interest in the so-called “Peace Process” that has led nowhere.

Pan-Arabism has a long history of disappointment across both secular and religious governments, so i'm not really sure what point this is supposed to be making.




9. Other regional enemies of Egypt’s Revolution Two include Turkey’s Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyeb Erdogan, and fellow travelers in Iran, Hamas and Tunisia. Watching their model of political Islam collapse in just about 10 days they are regrouping.....Qatar was told it could send no one, and no weapons into Gaza from Egypt anymore.

People who supported the overthrow of Morsi in Egypt: Al Qaeda and jihadi Salafists who are also Islamists. There is no unified Islamist camp, not even in the Middle East.
 
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Any who have a desire for peace in the world recognize the necessary reformation of the Moslem religion.

I think that your initial premise here is flawed as your base statement assumes the existence of a singular Islam within the world that we currently live; when in reality, no such thing actually exists. Islam isn't a monolith, nor has it ever been since Muhammad's death.

1. Although Christianity in its many varieties was the religion of the original colonies, Christianity does not preach operational dominance over the body politic in America.

The entire notion of dogmatic religion automatically inserts itself into and political body it comes into contact with. After all, what could be more important than God's law? Christianity is susceptible to this too and has been utilized heavily within politics in our own history. It even influences discourse today in the US from our overwhelming support for Israel, to minor issues such as abortion. While we don't have a state religion, we do have religious communities that vote their religion; which is only natural. Of course you're going to vote based on your opinion and if your opinion is rooting in religious doctrine then you are going to vote based on religious doctrine (depending on how important religion is to you personally vs. secular concerns. We, as humans, tend to focus more on secular concerns and Muslims are no exception to that).

Tocqueville compared this aspect to Islam:



i think this is a bit off for the point that you are trying to make here. The Quran isn't very detailed when it comes to day to day life and thus isn't a very extensive source for legal construction. This fact is the exact reason why Sharia law sets were developed in the first place among Muslim communities. they were meant to fill that legal void left by the Quran.



Once again, I think it's a bit analytically off to characterize the civil disruption in Egypt as an upheaval against political Islam. Even more highly Islamist parties than the Muslim Brotherhood turned against them.



Morsi attacked Jihadists too. He sent the military to the Sinai while he was in office to do just that.

7. The new pan-Arab cynicism is rooted in disappointments with such Islamist militias as Hezbollah and Hamas, piled upon multiple atrocities by Islamists against fellow Arabs in Algeria, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq and a loss of interest in the so-called “Peace Process” that has led nowhere.

Pan-Arabism has a long history of disappointment across both secular and religious governments, so i'm not really sure what point this is supposed to be making.




9. Other regional enemies of Egypt’s Revolution Two include Turkey’s Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyeb Erdogan, and fellow travelers in Iran, Hamas and Tunisia. Watching their model of political Islam collapse in just about 10 days they are regrouping.....Qatar was told it could send no one, and no weapons into Gaza from Egypt anymore.

People who supported the overthrow of Morsi in Egypt: Al Qaeda and jihadi Salafists who are also Islamists. There is no unified Islamist camp, not even in the Middle East.



The question boils down to this:

Is political Islam strengthened or weakened by recent events in the Middle East, in Egypt in particular?
 
When Jews learn to become more tolerant, maybe Muslims will follow suit.

When Jews and Israelis honor Jewish terrorists and Jewish terrorism, they have no business comdemning Muslim terrorism.
 
The question boils down to this:

Is political Islam strengthened or weakened by recent events in the Middle East, in Egypt in particular?

Depends on what type of political Islam you are talking about. Good for Al Qaeda and Salafi jihadis, Good for Saudi Arabia and Arab Gulf States, bad for moderate Islamists, indifferent to bad for liberal islamists.
 
“The Gospel, on the contrary, speaks only of the general relations of men to God and to each other, beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith.”

Do you understand what that sentence means?

No, I'm seriously asking :eusa_eh:
 
The question boils down to this:

Is political Islam strengthened or weakened by recent events in the Middle East, in Egypt in particular?

Depends on what type of political Islam you are talking about. Good for Al Qaeda and Salafi jihadis, Good for Saudi Arabia and Arab Gulf States, bad for moderate Islamists, indifferent to bad for liberal islamists.

So...you haven't followed the situation that led to Morsi's removal?
You have no opinion on whether his attempting to institute sharia is/was good for Egypt...and the position of Egypt in the modern world.

If Morsi represents political Islam....are the recent events good for Egypt?
 
Islam is un-reformable.

This has been a debate in mid east for centuries now, not a new thing.

For instance, islam allows man to beat up their woman and this is straight from god himself, word to word. As a muslim you either believe that, or play dumb. Reforming is not an option.
 
How about starting with getting ALL Muslims OUT of the USA, keeping them out and not letting any in. We would save billions in security...

911.jpg

How eactly do you think spending money to keep people out is going to save money?
 
Islam is un-reformable.

This has been a debate in mid east for centuries now, not a new thing.

For instance, islam allows man to beat up their woman and this is straight from god himself, word to word. As a muslim you either believe that, or play dumb. Reforming is not an option.

Judaism allows children who curse at their parents, to be killed.
 
“Mohammed professed to derive from Heaven, and has inserted in the Koran, not only religious doctrines, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and theories of science. The Gospel, on the contrary, speaks only of the general relations of men to God and to each other, beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith. This alone, besides a thousand other reasons, would suffice to prove that the former of these religions will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, while the latter is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods.”
Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” vol.2, p. 23.

His logic is correct, but his prediction was wrong

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEJCDY1kJVo]Creation Museum.mov - YouTube[/ame]
 
Islam is un-reformable.

This has been a debate in mid east for centuries now, not a new thing.

For instance, islam allows man to beat up their woman and this is straight from god himself, word to word. As a muslim you either believe that, or play dumb. Reforming is not an option.

Judaism allows children who curse at their parents, to be killed.

So thats the best you can do ha, find a "but" each time you fuck up...

Well, thats a sooo muslim thing to do, so don't blame you...
 
... this is straight from god himself...

Allah is not God. He was a moon god. He did not have a Son named "Jesus Christ".

How eactly do you think spending money to keep people out is going to save money?

We would spend a lot less keeping them out than the billions of dollars in damage, security costs, welfare they steal etc.

Security costs are paid whether they are in the country or not. What evidence is there that "they" steal any welfare?

I don't see why we have to have a hostile attitude to any Muslim as long as they are not planning to attack us. I've met very many good and honorable Muslims and I am glad they are in the US to make it a better place. Not to mention they have a better chance of hearing the Gospel here than elsewhere.
 

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