American exceptionalism and the bullshit it is

[Unkotare]

Well this might stunn you, but the current prime minister of this country is the son of a poor Italian (foreigner).

Of what country?

 

[Unkotare]

As I've attempted to point out to you, twice now, no one but those with an axe to grind say things like that. Oh, axe grinders and those "neocon right wingers" you like to throw into your post I'm assuming for added credibility.

Well it s the same extreme people that are now becoming the republican party, the moderate republicans are becoming an extinct species

Where the fuck did this semi-literate fuckstick come from?

From the same continent your ancestors proabably came from,

You're from a continent, not a country? What the hell are you so afraid of?

 

[flacaltenn]

As I've attempted to point out to you, twice now, no one but those with an axe to grind say things like that. Oh, axe grinders and those "neocon right wingers" you like to throw into your post I'm assuming for added credibility.

Well it s the same extreme people that are now becoming the republican party, the moderate republicans are becoming an extinct species

Where the fuck did this semi-literate fuckstick come from?

From the same continent your ancestors proabably came from,

You're from a continent, not a country? What the hell are you so afraid of?

He really deep down doesn't want to reveal his country because he KNOWS the discussion would then be about his homeland. The folks I've met who say they're from 'the continent' are usually Dutch. Avoids those awkward mental pictures of wooden shoes, tulips and windmills. But THEY are probably the most arrogant on "the continent"..

 

[Unkotare]

Odd that he's so eager to shoot his big mouth off about a specific country, but so terribly afraid to admit where he is from.

 

[Political Junky]

One helluva monologue, thanks.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK0LePblRAg&feature=player_embedded]Bill Maher Thanks Teabaggers and Sarah Palin(TOO FUNNY) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Darkwind]

.

Okay, a humble request here. Uh, actually two.

First, can someone please provide a specific and comprehensive definition of American Exceptionalism?

Then, can you describe in detail precisely why it matters if America is indeed "exceptional"?

Thanks in advance.

.

You don't know how to look up a word in a dictionary and on top of that, you don't know what an American is?

 

[Mac1958]

.

Okay, a humble request here. Uh, actually two.

First, can someone please provide a specific and comprehensive definition of American Exceptionalism?

Then, can you describe in detail precisely why it matters if America is indeed "exceptional"?

Thanks in advance.

.

You don't know how to look up a word in a dictionary and on top of that, you don't know what an American is?

Huh? I don't know what an American is? What in the world does that have to do with my (reasonable) question? Weak dodge there.

Okay, third try, what the hell:

Why does it matter if America is "exceptional"?

.

 

[Too Tall]

I ve heard this a lot in election speeches, but one thing about the arrongance behind this idea is that it doesn't meet the reality.

Let s start:

The symbol of America: The man who built the statue of Liberty was a Frenchman (the same man who build the eiffel tower)

Another symbol of America: the American National Anthem is a story about Fort McHenry and Americans in there surviving a huge naval bombardment that would ve annahilated them with the big US Flag if it wasn't for the French Engineering that had been used to build it.

The first American on the moon: One of the biggest triumphs of US history is the one of the Nation that put the first man on the moon. The fact of the matter is that it was German technology that made it work and Nazi-German scientists that were key to making it work: the truth is that German efficiency got American astronauts on the moon. Wernher von Braun: Rocket Man for War and Peace - Part 1.1 - YouTube


The idea that Americans have nothing to learn from others because Americans are the best in everything is just idiotically stupid, as some of the Biggest American Accomplishments where enabled by non-Americans (including the US independence that was enabled by the French Fleet helping the Americans during the war of independence)

And all this time I thought Neal Armstrong was an American.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Now, if we can only stop all the garbage from other exceptional countries from flocking to this unexceptional one...............lol

 

[Too Tall]

Well, I don’t think of American exceptionalism in that way. You perceive it as our belief that Americans are exceptional, in an arrogant sense; I see it as belief in America as exceptional. Americans are not exceptional, in and of themselves, but the system and values that have shaped the country are. Here the class systems of the old world were eliminated, and in its place a meritocracy ensured that the best would rise to the top, not based upon birthright or caste, but based upon the individual’s contribution to society. The “melting pot” of diversity combined with the freedom to pursue your dreams allowed for the individual strengths of varied races and cultures to be revealed, and put to the best possible use. It has nothing to do with an individual event or success, but the accumulated advantage of free people doing their best and being allowed and even encouraged to succeed. Yes, the vast majority of us are ordinary, perhaps hard-working but unlikely to make a significant contribution to the human condition. But the system in which we operate allows for that one-in-a-million genius (or entrepreneur, or athlete, or a host of others) to find his or her way to the top, without significant barriers that would otherwise hinder or redirect them; it does not say, “You’re good in math, so you have to do xxxxx.” In many systems that person may never be given the opportunity to find out he is really particularly talented in something else, maybe something that seems unorthodox. Imagine if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs were compelled to become bankers; would the computer revolution have occurred in the same way or driven an entire world’s standard of living immeasurably higher? Perhaps, but the odds would have been greatly diminished. The end result of that system, combined with the advantage of abundant natural resources, has created the greatest country in the world to date. What you see as arrogance and self-congratulation, we see as the natural end result of a system that is designed to encourage exactly that; a system that allows exceptional people to reach the top and raise the living standards of poor schmucks like the rest of us. How could we possibly be arrogant about the people of our nation as compared to the rest of the world? We’re you; European, Middle Eastern, Asian, African, only a few generations removed. So when a German rocket scientist emigrates to the US and succeeds in putting a man on the moon, we celebrate that we live in a country that allows him to make such a contribution freely, and yes, we give credit to the system that provided the climate for that success. Also as the world emulates that system, our advantage is reduced; that doesn’t change the fact that our growth was the proximate result of those advantages.

Interesting stuff you say there, but one of the main reasons Steve Jobs and Bill Gates (also a dropout) were able to succeed was education they received even if they didn't finish it. They used the education they got and further educated themselves

About the freedom to start a business you are right, but with the education system being gutted so long in the US it s hard to believe that the US will still be that successful in the future and in the present.

It s harder to get a good education in the US than anywhere else in the world (or it is very very expensive and you need to take a loan for it), in European countries it is much cheaper to get education (students don't even need to take loans to get into higher education). The fact of the matter is that Steve Jobs might not have afforded to go to college today to learn the things he did if he lived now in the US

if you put making private profits as more important then public schools educating people, then banks will make more profits and students will have to pay more: as a result less students will be able to afford it and less students will succeed as you put a financial barrier on top of the intellectual barrier that students need to break in order to succeed.

Lots of Western European Nations have adopted almost all the civil liberties that the US has, the US is not that much different anymore compared to other civilized countries or exceptional as you might call it. Same for freedom of speech, free press, the melting pot of more different cultures, ... it s all already adopted in WEstern Europe

I give the Western European socialist economic system one or two years before it collapses, much like the Soviet Union did in 1991. The only thing that will prevent the United States from the same fate is the defeat of President Obama.

Greece and Spain, followed by France and Italy are on my list for economic collapse and the resultant anarchy. The United States is not willing nor able to save Europe from itself again.

 

[Erand7899]

I ve heard this a lot in election speeches, but one thing about the arrongance behind this idea is that it doesn't meet the reality.

Let s start:

The symbol of America: The man who built the statue of Liberty was a Frenchman (the same man who build the eiffel tower)

Another symbol of America: the American National Anthem is a story about Fort McHenry and Americans in there surviving a huge naval bombardment that would ve annahilated them with the big US Flag if it wasn't for the French Engineering that had been used to build it.

The first American on the moon: One of the biggest triumphs of US history is the one of the Nation that put the first man on the moon. The fact of the matter is that it was German technology that made it work and Nazi-German scientists that were key to making it work: the truth is that German efficiency got American astronauts on the moon. Wernher von Braun: Rocket Man for War and Peace - Part 1.1 - YouTube


The idea that Americans have nothing to learn from others because Americans are the best in everything is just idiotically stupid, as some of the Biggest American Accomplishments where enabled by non-Americans (including the US independence that was enabled by the French Fleet helping the Americans during the war of independence)

The fact that you think that American exceptionalism means that we know everything, and are better at everything, than other nations, is indictative of your ignorance of what American exceptionalism consists of.

A free people, engaged in their own interests and their own financial wellbeing, have built a nation and an economy, that dwarfs all others. This achievement was not dictated by, or even directed by any central authority. Americans believe that the collective result of millions of individuals acting in their own self interests, surpasses anything that central planners can put together. That is what American exceptionalism is all about. Any nation that follows the American example will prosper.

 

[flacaltenn]

I always think that American Exceptionalism is like "Hominid Exceptionalism".. We've been on this planet a LOT SHORTER time than our distant cousin the cockroach or many other relatives. We've gained brain mass, talent, and wisdom and there's no evidence of smarter more productive cockroaches even tho they had a mult-Million year head start on us..

A FEW species have had advances. Like possibly the marine mammals and whales. But the whales OWE US for inventing refineries and substitutes for lighting our homes. They don't even thank us for saving their asses..

And domesticated animals have seemed to thrive -- but largely again thru proximity to "exceptional" Hominids.

No diff. The world league of nations have cockroaches and whales and jackasses. We've beaten the odds and EVOLVED faster and better than the statistics would indicate is possible..

 

[Munin]

He really deep down doesn't want to reveal his country because he KNOWS the discussion would then be about his homeland. The folks I've met who say they're from 'the continent' are usually Dutch. Avoids those awkward mental pictures of wooden shoes, tulips and windmills. But THEY are probably the most arrogant on "the continent"..

Well you are a smart one, well besides what you re saying is true (the part about the discussion would be about talking shit about my country, you did get the country wrong though)

I actually gave away what country I m from (see my reply below here). My country luckely doesn't make that awful Heineken beer, we make beer that actually doesn't taste like piss

Wel they did found one of the Biggest cities in the US, back when New York was called New Amsterdam.

Are you Russian?

You're from a continent, not a country? What the hell are you so afraid of?

Odd that he's so eager to shoot his big mouth off about a specific country, but so terribly afraid to admit where he is from.

I m not afraid of anything, I already gave away what country I m from: you just have to use that brain of yours at the quote below. If you can make it you earn the rigth to talk shit about it, if you don't well boohoo ... And heck, I will even talk shit about my country if you can guess which one it is

And no, Russians drink wodka not beer . But if I was a anti-American that would have been a good guess ;-)

Ya WITH me MUMIN? Let's go out there and maintain our losing tradition!!!!!!!

Yes I get it, you make very good arguments. It s a speech to kick up morale, it is Nationalism. I should know after all, I m quite Nationalistic myself but not to the point that I think my countrymen can do everything better than any other country. I only think they re the best at drinking and making beer, only if we re drunk we can pretend that we re the best at everything . So take a guess, which countries big multinational beer company has taken over some of the biggest American beer companies?

Frenchmen would be talking German today had it not been for America TWICE.

Well that s what I mean, blowing up Nationalism so much that you re taking credit for the work of others. The US only had a small army in WWI compared to the real big armies of European Nations at the time. World War I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes you liberated the French once and the French will probably never hear the end of it ... Even when they come to your aid in your wars: first gulf war, Afghan war, ...

The Irony of what France did for you and you being so ungratefull is so hilarious, did you know that the King France bankrupted his country by spending huge amounts of money to help the Americans win against the British (well also because he hated the British)? You don't hear the French brag about that now, do you? (it s the same bankrupting that led to the French revolution)

 

[flacaltenn]

Munin --- We both know how close I got with my "guess".... The "If you're not Dutch, you're not much" attitude must have come to you across the border..

 

[Munin]

Munin --- We both know how close I got with my "guess".... The "If you're not Dutch, you're not much" attitude must have come to you across the border..

Yeah but you got it wrong though , but you are right about arrogance and what their reason is for saying they re from the continent: which made me laugh a lot . The dutch are probably some of the loudest people in Europe, probably coming from the time they as a very small country had a colonial empire over the whole world: which is quite impressive, I have to admit. Or maybe it is because it helped them to be good salesmen, as that is another thing they re famous for.

Well which country is it then ?

 

[LogikAndReazon]

If only America could be as sophisticated, nuanced and cultured as the French.................lol

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm not gonna turn you in.. You deserve a whooping for being so judgemental about America. You're nothing but French Mongrels with better hygiene..

Have a nice fight.. LOL

 

[Murf76]

Well, I see that a few others have tried to explain the term "American Exceptionalism" to you, but I think the most succinct way to describe it is that we are the exception to the rule. The old rule at the time of America's founding was pretty much monarchy. Our NEW rule was that the people are capable of ruling themselves. Of course, the concept of American Exceptionalism today would include the ideal of promoting our belief in democratic self-rule on the framework of constitutional law.

The notion that "American Exceptionalism" is about claims of general superiority is just wrong.

 

[flacaltenn]

We have AMUSEMENT PARKS larger then your country Munin... I once rode a train thru your country, went to take a pee and missed it...

 

[Munin]

I'm not gonna turn you in.. You deserve a whooping for being so judgemental about America. You're nothing but French Mongrels with better hygiene..

Have a nice fight.. LOL

Yeah, I got quite the shitstorm there . Damn, now I can't talk shit about my country

Well ty, nice too see not all of americans had their ancestors come from the prison boat. Yeah I know, I will piss of more people

The weird thing is that I wasn't even trying to troll or piss of people
It s amazing how the word "french" and "france" can piss of some Americans


You know for example that there is a big chance that American women wear French underwear?

So that means that there is a big chance you American guys have been making love with France