Unkotare
Diamond Member
- Aug 16, 2011
- 131,357
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Well this might stunn you, but the current prime minister of this country is the son of a poor Italian (foreigner).
Of what country?
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Well this might stunn you, but the current prime minister of this country is the son of a poor Italian (foreigner).
As I've attempted to point out to you, twice now, no one but those with an axe to grind say things like that. Oh, axe grinders and those "neocon right wingers" you like to throw into your post I'm assuming for added credibility.
Well it s the same extreme people that are now becoming the republican party, the moderate republicans are becoming an extinct species
Where the fuck did this semi-literate fuckstick come from?
From the same continent your ancestors proabably came from,
As I've attempted to point out to you, twice now, no one but those with an axe to grind say things like that. Oh, axe grinders and those "neocon right wingers" you like to throw into your post I'm assuming for added credibility.
Well it s the same extreme people that are now becoming the republican party, the moderate republicans are becoming an extinct species
Where the fuck did this semi-literate fuckstick come from?
From the same continent your ancestors proabably came from,
You're from a continent, not a country? What the hell are you so afraid of?
You don't know how to look up a word in a dictionary and on top of that, you don't know what an American is?.
Okay, a humble request here. Uh, actually two.
First, can someone please provide a specific and comprehensive definition of American Exceptionalism?
Then, can you describe in detail precisely why it matters if America is indeed "exceptional"?
Thanks in advance.
.
You don't know how to look up a word in a dictionary and on top of that, you don't know what an American is?.
Okay, a humble request here. Uh, actually two.
First, can someone please provide a specific and comprehensive definition of American Exceptionalism?
Then, can you describe in detail precisely why it matters if America is indeed "exceptional"?
Thanks in advance.
.
I ve heard this a lot in election speeches, but one thing about the arrongance behind this idea is that it doesn't meet the reality.
Let s start:
The symbol of America: The man who built the statue of Liberty was a Frenchman (the same man who build the eiffel tower)
Another symbol of America: the American National Anthem is a story about Fort McHenry and Americans in there surviving a huge naval bombardment that would ve annahilated them with the big US Flag if it wasn't for the French Engineering that had been used to build it.
The first American on the moon: One of the biggest triumphs of US history is the one of the Nation that put the first man on the moon. The fact of the matter is that it was German technology that made it work and Nazi-German scientists that were key to making it work: the truth is that German efficiency got American astronauts on the moon. Wernher von Braun: Rocket Man for War and Peace - Part 1.1 - YouTube
The idea that Americans have nothing to learn from others because Americans are the best in everything is just idiotically stupid, as some of the Biggest American Accomplishments where enabled by non-Americans (including the US independence that was enabled by the French Fleet helping the Americans during the war of independence)
Well, I dont think of American exceptionalism in that way. You perceive it as our belief that Americans are exceptional, in an arrogant sense; I see it as belief in America as exceptional. Americans are not exceptional, in and of themselves, but the system and values that have shaped the country are. Here the class systems of the old world were eliminated, and in its place a meritocracy ensured that the best would rise to the top, not based upon birthright or caste, but based upon the individuals contribution to society. The melting pot of diversity combined with the freedom to pursue your dreams allowed for the individual strengths of varied races and cultures to be revealed, and put to the best possible use. It has nothing to do with an individual event or success, but the accumulated advantage of free people doing their best and being allowed and even encouraged to succeed. Yes, the vast majority of us are ordinary, perhaps hard-working but unlikely to make a significant contribution to the human condition. But the system in which we operate allows for that one-in-a-million genius (or entrepreneur, or athlete, or a host of others) to find his or her way to the top, without significant barriers that would otherwise hinder or redirect them; it does not say, Youre good in math, so you have to do xxxxx. In many systems that person may never be given the opportunity to find out he is really particularly talented in something else, maybe something that seems unorthodox. Imagine if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs were compelled to become bankers; would the computer revolution have occurred in the same way or driven an entire worlds standard of living immeasurably higher? Perhaps, but the odds would have been greatly diminished. The end result of that system, combined with the advantage of abundant natural resources, has created the greatest country in the world to date. What you see as arrogance and self-congratulation, we see as the natural end result of a system that is designed to encourage exactly that; a system that allows exceptional people to reach the top and raise the living standards of poor schmucks like the rest of us. How could we possibly be arrogant about the people of our nation as compared to the rest of the world? Were you; European, Middle Eastern, Asian, African, only a few generations removed. So when a German rocket scientist emigrates to the US and succeeds in putting a man on the moon, we celebrate that we live in a country that allows him to make such a contribution freely, and yes, we give credit to the system that provided the climate for that success. Also as the world emulates that system, our advantage is reduced; that doesnt change the fact that our growth was the proximate result of those advantages.
Interesting stuff you say there, but one of the main reasons Steve Jobs and Bill Gates (also a dropout) were able to succeed was education they received even if they didn't finish it. They used the education they got and further educated themselves
About the freedom to start a business you are right, but with the education system being gutted so long in the US it s hard to believe that the US will still be that successful in the future and in the present.
It s harder to get a good education in the US than anywhere else in the world (or it is very very expensive and you need to take a loan for it), in European countries it is much cheaper to get education (students don't even need to take loans to get into higher education). The fact of the matter is that Steve Jobs might not have afforded to go to college today to learn the things he did if he lived now in the US
if you put making private profits as more important then public schools educating people, then banks will make more profits and students will have to pay more: as a result less students will be able to afford it and less students will succeed as you put a financial barrier on top of the intellectual barrier that students need to break in order to succeed.
Lots of Western European Nations have adopted almost all the civil liberties that the US has, the US is not that much different anymore compared to other civilized countries or exceptional as you might call it. Same for freedom of speech, free press, the melting pot of more different cultures, ... it s all already adopted in WEstern Europe
I ve heard this a lot in election speeches, but one thing about the arrongance behind this idea is that it doesn't meet the reality.
Let s start:
The symbol of America: The man who built the statue of Liberty was a Frenchman (the same man who build the eiffel tower)
Another symbol of America: the American National Anthem is a story about Fort McHenry and Americans in there surviving a huge naval bombardment that would ve annahilated them with the big US Flag if it wasn't for the French Engineering that had been used to build it.
The first American on the moon: One of the biggest triumphs of US history is the one of the Nation that put the first man on the moon. The fact of the matter is that it was German technology that made it work and Nazi-German scientists that were key to making it work: the truth is that German efficiency got American astronauts on the moon. Wernher von Braun: Rocket Man for War and Peace - Part 1.1 - YouTube
The idea that Americans have nothing to learn from others because Americans are the best in everything is just idiotically stupid, as some of the Biggest American Accomplishments where enabled by non-Americans (including the US independence that was enabled by the French Fleet helping the Americans during the war of independence)
He really deep down doesn't want to reveal his country because he KNOWS the discussion would then be about his homeland. The folks I've met who say they're from 'the continent' are usually Dutch. Avoids those awkward mental pictures of wooden shoes, tulips and windmills. But THEY are probably the most arrogant on "the continent"..
Are you Russian?
You're from a continent, not a country? What the hell are you so afraid of?
Odd that he's so eager to shoot his big mouth off about a specific country, but so terribly afraid to admit where he is from.
Ya WITH me MUMIN? Let's go out there and maintain our losing tradition!!!!!!!
Yes I get it, you make very good arguments. It s a speech to kick up morale, it is Nationalism. I should know after all, I m quite Nationalistic myself but not to the point that I think my countrymen can do everything better than any other country. I only think they re the best at drinking and making beer, only if we re drunk we can pretend that we re the best at everything . So take a guess, which countries big multinational beer company has taken over some of the biggest American beer companies?
Frenchmen would be talking German today had it not been for America TWICE.
Munin --- We both know how close I got with my "guess".... The "If you're not Dutch, you're not much" attitude must have come to you across the border..
I'm not gonna turn you in.. You deserve a whooping for being so judgemental about America. You're nothing but French Mongrels with better hygiene..
Have a nice fight.. LOL