American exceptionalism and the bullshit it is

[Munin]

Napoleon was a dictator.
As far as political and civil liberties were concerned, Napoleon largely suppressed them with strict censorship and the establishment of a virtual police state in order to protect his power.

True, but the French revolution was something separate from that. The irony is indeed that it was a dictator that had spread the civil liberties and put them into laws all over Europe, but it was indeed also a police state.

 

[007]

Yes, it is my 3rd language (I m from Europe).

Fine... now go fuck yourself... loser.

 

[Katzndogz]

From Europe! No WONDER you don't know what the term American exceptionalism means.

What is American exceptionalism? | Ian Tyrrell

 

[IGetItAlready]

There it is.. The leftist revolution can't allow for America being exceptional because that reduces the need for MORE GOVT and MORE SPENDING. If they allow us to feel proud of ANYTHING in this country --- there will be less victimhood and need.

We should immediately start depressing our K-12 kids by teaching them how America had to steal Nazis to go to the moon. That's GREAT for morale.

Ask any coach about how a motivating speech in the locker room outlining EVERY WAY that team SUCKS --- will insure a better outcome on the field...

Ya WITH me MUMIN? Let's go out there and maintain our losing tradition!!!!!!!

Yes I get it, you make very good arguments. It s a speech to kick up morale, it is Nationalism. I should know after all, I m quite Nationalistic myself but not to the point that I think my countrymen can do everything better than any other country. I only think they re the best at drinking and making beer, only if we re drunk we can pretend that we re the best at everything . So take a guess, which countries big multinational beer company has taken over some of the biggest American beer companies?


No you shouldn't start depressing your kids, it is indeed a great country that can accept people for who they are and not just judge them for what country they came from. It is a great country where people who got to the moon first by not judging and killing people for being born in the wrong country: Nazi Germans were all declared enemies and working with the former enemies is what got the Americans on the moon (that is indeed something good too). That notion of tolerance, acceptance that some foreigners can do certain things better (while this can not be said by all foreigners of course) is what makes the US great. It s the coöperation of Americans with other Nations and American acception that some people both in their country and out of it have better ideas than themeselves, it does make it a great country. But if you go as far as saying you re the best at everything, you just take it one step too far and if you teach that to your kids you make the mistake of just saying the opposite of what America is good at: not prejudging for where you come from and accepting that good ideas do not come from only 1 nation. That yes, the US invented the modern car from the assembly line but knowing that the invention

Saying that you re the best at everything and that your Country is superior at everything is taking what makes the US that great country and pissing it away. The day a Nation starts saying that it has nothing to learn from other nations, is a sad day for that Nation. That is the reason I m saying what I am, not because I m anti American but because I m pro American and I m anti American idiocy.

The same kind of idiocy that makes neocons think you can invade a country, tell it everything what to do and still think that all people of that country will cheer for you. And yes it is true to some extend, the Kurds in North Iraq may have cheered for the Americans and a majority of them probably still do but the vast majority of the country is not cheering right now.

It also reminds me of a wise american politician saying that most politicians want to say that they are born in a shack they built themselves. It does seem to be the same mindset


And if you re able to find out the country I m from, think about why you want to know that: You want to know that so you can prejudge me? Well guess what, maybe you re not really that American and you may really not be that patriotic

The only thing I m saying is: if you really love and like your country then don't say it is the best at everything if it is not, so you can at least improve your country by the things other Nations are doing better than you
It would be like me saying I m the best at English spelling and I have nothing to learn ... you would agree saying that is studpid, no?

As I've attempted to point out to you, twice now, no one but those with an axe to grind say things like that. Oh, axe grinders and those "neocon right wingers" you like to throw into your post I'm assuming for added credibility.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I ve heard this a lot in election speeches, but one thing about the arrongance behind this idea is that it doesn't meet the reality.

Let s start:

The symbol of America: The man who built the statue of Liberty was a Frenchman (the same man who build the eiffel tower)

Another symbol of America: the American National Anthem is a story about Fort McHenry and Americans in there surviving a huge naval bombardment that would ve annahilated them with the big US Flag if it wasn't for the French Engineering that had been used to build it.

The first American on the moon: One of the biggest triumphs of US history is the one of the Nation that put the first man on the moon. The fact of the matter is that it was German technology that made it work and Nazi-German scientists that were key to making it work: the truth is that German efficiency got American astronauts on the moon. Wernher von Braun: Rocket Man for War and Peace - Part 1.1 - YouTube


The idea that Americans have nothing to learn from others because Americans are the best in everything is just idiotically stupid, as some of the Biggest American Accomplishments where enabled by non-Americans (including the US independence that was enabled by the French Fleet helping the Americans during the war of independence)

Where the fuck did this semi-literate fuckstick come from?

 

[Munin]

As I've attempted to point out to you, twice now, no one but those with an axe to grind say things like that. Oh, axe grinders and those "neocon right wingers" you like to throw into your post I'm assuming for added credibility.

Well it s the same extreme people that are now becoming the republican party, the moderate republicans are becoming an extinct species

Where the fuck did this semi-literate fuckstick come from?

From the same continent your ancestors proabably came from, you know the ones that put you on that continent you are on now? Just reading from your intellectual reply, yours must have been on the prison boat from England

Or are you one of the morons that want to see a birth certificate if you see someone that you don't like? Sorry, I don't show my birth certificate to strangers

 

[IGetItAlready]

As I've attempted to point out to you, twice now, no one but those with an axe to grind say things like that. Oh, axe grinders and those "neocon right wingers" you like to throw into your post I'm assuming for added credibility.

Well it s the same extreme people that are now becoming the republican party, the moderate republicans are becoming an extinct species

So perhaps your thread should be entitled, "I hate Republicans".
You guys and your stupid straw men and sensational claims in an attempt to engineer the answers to questions you feel you've already answered.

pffft

 

[Darkwind]

I ve heard this a lot in election speeches, but one thing about the arrongance behind this idea is that it doesn't meet the reality.

Let s start:

The symbol of America: The man who build the statue of Liberty was a Frenchman (the same man who build the eifel tower)

Another symbol of America: the American National Anthom is a story about Fort McHenry and Americans in there surviving a huge naval bombardment that would ve annahilated them with the big US Flag if it wasn't for the French Engineering that had been used to build it.

The first American on the moon: One of the biggest triumphs of US history is the one of the Nation that put the first man on the moon. The fact of the matter is that it was German technology that made it work and Nazi-German scientists that were key to making it work: the truth is that German efficiency got American astronauts on the moon. Wernher von Braun: Rocket Man for War and Peace - Part 1.1 - YouTube


The idea that Americans have nothing to learn from others because Americans are the best in everything is just idioticly stupid, as some of the Biggest American Accomplishments where enabled by non-Americans (including the US independence that was enabled by the French Fleet helping the Americans during the war of independence)

Man, the public education system failed you in so many areas.

I was just about to post that his indoctrination center for the hatred of all things American should employ some real historians who can actually put history in context. As it is, the failed education of this person just has him coming off as a rabid hater.

 

[Unkotare]

I m quite Nationalistic myself

For which nation? You can't be "quite nationalistic" if you are afraid to say what country you are from.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I ve heard this a lot in election speeches, but one thing about the arrongance behind this idea is that it doesn't meet the reality.

Let s start:

The symbol of America: The man who built the statue of Liberty was a Frenchman (the same man who build the eiffel tower)

Another symbol of America: the American National Anthem is a story about Fort McHenry and Americans in there surviving a huge naval bombardment that would ve annahilated them with the big US Flag if it wasn't for the French Engineering that had been used to build it.

The first American on the moon: One of the biggest triumphs of US history is the one of the Nation that put the first man on the moon. The fact of the matter is that it was German technology that made it work and Nazi-German scientists that were key to making it work: the truth is that German efficiency got American astronauts on the moon. Wernher von Braun: Rocket Man for War and Peace - Part 1.1 - YouTube


The idea that Americans have nothing to learn from others because Americans are the best in everything is just idiotically stupid, as some of the Biggest American Accomplishments where enabled by non-Americans (including the US independence that was enabled by the French Fleet helping the Americans during the war of independence)

Frenchmen would be talking German today had it not been for America TWICE.

 

[Unkotare]

And if you re able to find out the country I m from, think about why you want to know that:

No, you think about why you are afraid to simply say where you are from (hint: The answer is not flattering).

 

[Mac1958]

.

Okay, a humble request here. Uh, actually two.

First, can someone please provide a specific and comprehensive definition of American Exceptionalism?

Then, can you describe in detail precisely why it matters if America is indeed "exceptional"?

Thanks in advance.

.

 

[Unkotare]

It is comparable to "saying the 9/11 terrorists" where heroic

You would not be put in jail here for that.

 

[Rozman]

We are number one at everything, right?

You guys are making sure that isn't true anymore....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

.

Okay, a humble request here. Uh, actually two.

First, can someone please provide a specific and comprehensive definition of American Exceptionalism?

Then, can you describe in detail precisely why it matters if America is indeed "exceptional"?

Thanks in advance.

.

Wiki is the best I could come up with
American exceptionalism is the belief that the United States is different from other countries in that it has a specific world mission to spread liberty and democracy. In this view, America's exceptionalism stems from its emergence from a revolution, becoming "the first new nation,"[1] and developing a uniquely American ideology, based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism and populism.[citation needed] This observation can be traced to Alexis de Tocqueville, the first writer to describe the United States as "exceptional" in 1831 and 1840.[2] Historian Gordon Wood has argued, "Our beliefs in liberty, equality, constitutionalism, and the well-being of ordinary people came out of the Revolutionary era. So too did our idea that we Americans are a special people with a special destiny to lead the world toward liberty and democracy.
American exceptionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And why you ask? America as been the go too country for the oppressed.

 

[Rozman]

Making sure as many people are crippled and dependent
on government for their daily existence is the fastest way to make sure
this country becomes Europe's redheaded stepchild.

 

[Unkotare]

Or Julien Assange for example, who the US is after for his "freedom of speech/press", would he not be put in Jail for his freedom of press/speech if he d come to the US?

You demonstrate great ignorance with that statement.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Wha Wha WHa....if you hate America so much, move to france.

Why France? I think Iraq, Afghanistan are much more populair places for anti-American People (except for North Iraq, with Kurdistan being a successtory of the US occupation). Why would I want to be in the country that helped create America if I was anti American? Without France the US would not exist, the Frenchies are helping the America win its war in Afghanistan btw: their elite troops are fighting there and dying side by side with Americans. And that is what anti-American people do? They send their troops to fight and die helping American troops in Afghanistan

Oh yes I get the cliché, they re no good cheese eating surrender monkeys that don't have the stomach to fight right? All the sudden forgetting that France is a nation that exists from 50 years before the birth of Christ (more than 2000 years) and its military got the Nation France to survive hundreds of wars, they earn a little bit more respect if you ask me and I m not even pro French .

I m not anti American, I m anti arrogant-dickhead. Which happens to be a big number of Republican American Politicians are, still thinking in their fary tale world that people will cheer for them everywhere in the world because they re so exceptional ...

give me a f break

Well, I don’t think of American exceptionalism in that way. You perceive it as our belief that Americans are exceptional, in an arrogant sense; I see it as belief in America as exceptional. Americans are not exceptional, in and of themselves, but the system and values that have shaped the country are. Here the class systems of the old world were eliminated, and in its place a meritocracy ensured that the best would rise to the top, not based upon birthright or caste, but based upon the individual’s contribution to society. The “melting pot” of diversity combined with the freedom to pursue your dreams allowed for the individual strengths of varied races and cultures to be revealed, and put to the best possible use. It has nothing to do with an individual event or success, but the accumulated advantage of free people doing their best and being allowed and even encouraged to succeed. Yes, the vast majority of us are ordinary, perhaps hard-working but unlikely to make a significant contribution to the human condition. But the system in which we operate allows for that one-in-a-million genius (or entrepreneur, or athlete, or a host of others) to find his or her way to the top, without significant barriers that would otherwise hinder or redirect them; it does not say, “You’re good in math, so you have to do xxxxx.” In many systems that person may never be given the opportunity to find out he is really particularly talented in something else, maybe something that seems unorthodox. Imagine if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs were compelled to become bankers; would the computer revolution have occurred in the same way or driven an entire world’s standard of living immeasurably higher? Perhaps, but the odds would have been greatly diminished. The end result of that system, combined with the advantage of abundant natural resources, has created the greatest country in the world to date. What you see as arrogance and self-congratulation, we see as the natural end result of a system that is designed to encourage exactly that; a system that allows exceptional people to reach the top and raise the living standards of poor schmucks like the rest of us. How could we possibly be arrogant about the people of our nation as compared to the rest of the world? We’re you; European, Middle Eastern, Asian, African, only a few generations removed. So when a German rocket scientist emigrates to the US and succeeds in putting a man on the moon, we celebrate that we live in a country that allows him to make such a contribution freely, and yes, we give credit to the system that provided the climate for that success. Also as the world emulates that system, our advantage is reduced; that doesn’t change the fact that our growth was the proximate result of those advantages.

Exactly, well said.

 

[Unkotare]

American exceptionalism and the bullshit it is

Yes the USA is the only nation that is the United States of America.

Ergo America is indeed exceptional...exceptional in exactly the same way every other nation is exceptional.

Thanks obama...

 

[Mac1958]

.

Why does it matter?

.