Debate Now America is no longer a Republic. Partisan bickering is how we lost it.

[kiwiman127]

This is a FASCINATING topic and the OP is extremely well-written, in my opinion.

I am wondering if there is a geographic component to this, meaning, whether some corners of the USA have been "corporatized" faster and earlier than the rest.

What say you?

First, Thank you for the kind words...
Not as much as I used to before 2008, but over the past couple decades I travelled throughout the midwest states, and a few trips to FL and MN.
What I can say is, at least in the Midwest, at least 90% of the growth or new business development has been corporate box stores. Whether that be restaurants, big box hardware, retail chains and discounts stores or even down to plumbing chains and other more traditionally small mom and pops.

Consider....in 1955, the top 5 employers in the U.S. were all builders and producers. Amoco, GM, US Steel etc.
TODAY - Walmart, YUM! Brands and McDonalds are the top three. The top 10 also include retail chains like Target and national grocers.
Seriously?? More people work in retail chains than true industries.
We are no longer a nation of movers and shakers. Builders and achievers...we work at Walmart and Home Depot.
So I don't know if this is geographic or not...by generally the nation as a whole? - absolutely.

I happened across this thread this morning and thought it ended too soon.

Revisiting the thread topic, do you (you being anybody who wants to respond) wonder why we are now a nation in which retail and service businesses eclipse the builders and manufacturers that once grounded our economic growth? Should we not consider that it was the increasing concentration of power in a central government--a concept that the Founders intended would not happen--and the resulting ability of government to control more and more of how Americans would do business, commerce, and industry, that resulted in such unintended negative consequences?

Yes OSHA laws have reduced many injuries and hazards of the workplace. Yes the EPA has provided a means to clean up badly polluted soil, water, and air. Yes child labor laws have eliminated one form of child abuse. Yes minimum wage laws, unemployment compensation, mandatory work comp laws, mandatory overtime pay, and now mandatory healthcare insurance etc. has improved the situation of many individuals.

But it has all come at a very heavy price, a price that big corporations who can move most of their primary money making operations overseas can easily afford while the small mom and pop businesses have no such option. We lost our manufacturing base because government meddling, excessive taxes, and regulation drove it to other countries where it could be done more profitably even considering higher shipping costs. And the big box stores gained a huge foothold because they could absorb the government regulations more easily, and each store could operate on a lower profit margin than could their smaller competitors. So the mom and pop businesses are being forced out of business.

Everything is always going to change as civilization advances. But all things are not for the best. I would like to see the federal government busted back close to its constitutional roots and restore the power to the people to order the society they want to have. The transition would be tough, but once we adjusted, I think we would see the old American can do spirit return.

I find it interesting that the spike in outsourcing jobs offshore started occurring after the Capital Gains Tax and Dividend Tax was lowered early in the previous decade.

 

[kiwiman127]

We didn't lose our way because of Partisan Bickering. We lost it because Progressives began undermining American in the 19th century. As they spread through the educational system, labor unions, and government at every level, they corrupted the United States.

It was DELIBERATE.

I tend to agree that is what turned the Constitution on its head and opened the door for government to start taking more and more power from the people. I think though that it was the turn of the 20th century when that happened. Instead of the Founders' concept of a government limited to what the Constitution mandated and allowed it to do, Teddy Roosevelt was the first to declare that government could do anything the Constitution did not explicitly forbid it from doing. And from that day onward, we have been sliding back into the authoritarian European form of government and away from the concept of liberty and a people who were set free to live their lives and govern themselves.

Let's not forget how much Big Money is also taking more and more power from the people.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is a FASCINATING topic and the OP is extremely well-written, in my opinion.

I am wondering if there is a geographic component to this, meaning, whether some corners of the USA have been "corporatized" faster and earlier than the rest.

What say you?

First, Thank you for the kind words...
Not as much as I used to before 2008, but over the past couple decades I travelled throughout the midwest states, and a few trips to FL and MN.
What I can say is, at least in the Midwest, at least 90% of the growth or new business development has been corporate box stores. Whether that be restaurants, big box hardware, retail chains and discounts stores or even down to plumbing chains and other more traditionally small mom and pops.

Consider....in 1955, the top 5 employers in the U.S. were all builders and producers. Amoco, GM, US Steel etc.
TODAY - Walmart, YUM! Brands and McDonalds are the top three. The top 10 also include retail chains like Target and national grocers.
Seriously?? More people work in retail chains than true industries.
We are no longer a nation of movers and shakers. Builders and achievers...we work at Walmart and Home Depot.
So I don't know if this is geographic or not...by generally the nation as a whole? - absolutely.

I happened across this thread this morning and thought it ended too soon.

Revisiting the thread topic, do you (you being anybody who wants to respond) wonder why we are now a nation in which retail and service businesses eclipse the builders and manufacturers that once grounded our economic growth? Should we not consider that it was the increasing concentration of power in a central government--a concept that the Founders intended would not happen--and the resulting ability of government to control more and more of how Americans would do business, commerce, and industry, that resulted in such unintended negative consequences?

Yes OSHA laws have reduced many injuries and hazards of the workplace. Yes the EPA has provided a means to clean up badly polluted soil, water, and air. Yes child labor laws have eliminated one form of child abuse. Yes minimum wage laws, unemployment compensation, mandatory work comp laws, mandatory overtime pay, and now mandatory healthcare insurance etc. has improved the situation of many individuals.

But it has all come at a very heavy price, a price that big corporations who can move most of their primary money making operations overseas can easily afford while the small mom and pop businesses have no such option. We lost our manufacturing base because government meddling, excessive taxes, and regulation drove it to other countries where it could be done more profitably even considering higher shipping costs. And the big box stores gained a huge foothold because they could absorb the government regulations more easily, and each store could operate on a lower profit margin than could their smaller competitors. So the mom and pop businesses are being forced out of business.

Everything is always going to change as civilization advances. But all things are not for the best. I would like to see the federal government busted back close to its constitutional roots and restore the power to the people to order the society they want to have. The transition would be tough, but once we adjusted, I think we would see the old American can do spirit return.

I find it interesting that the spike in outsourcing jobs offshore started occurring after the Capital Gains Tax and Dividend Tax was lowered early in the previous decade.
View attachment 40552

The capital gains tax has never been that much of an issue for the larger corporation as they have all sorts of financial loopholes to avoid the worst consequences. Lowering the capital gains tax in the 1990's spurred an enormous burst of economic energy though which is one reason Bill Clinton is credited with a great economy. We lowered our tax to be more in line with what other countries were doing, and the greatest benefit was that it allowed those who had been sitting on assets to avoid the tax to sell those assets which was a real boon to others who needed them.

But lowering the capital gains tax did not affect the more onerous and repressive and regressive taxes and regulations that have driven so much of our manufacturing base off shore.

 

[Foxfyre]

We didn't lose our way because of Partisan Bickering. We lost it because Progressives began undermining American in the 19th century. As they spread through the educational system, labor unions, and government at every level, they corrupted the United States.

It was DELIBERATE.

I tend to agree that is what turned the Constitution on its head and opened the door for government to start taking more and more power from the people. I think though that it was the turn of the 20th century when that happened. Instead of the Founders' concept of a government limited to what the Constitution mandated and allowed it to do, Teddy Roosevelt was the first to declare that government could do anything the Constitution did not explicitly forbid it from doing. And from that day onward, we have been sliding back into the authoritarian European form of government and away from the concept of liberty and a people who were set free to live their lives and govern themselves.

Let's not forget how much Big Money is also taking more and more power from the people.

Sorry. I have not had a single opportunity or liberty compromised in any way by 'big money'. I have seen a lot of my opportunities and liberties slip away to an ever encroaching big government though.

 

[kiwiman127]

We didn't lose our way because of Partisan Bickering. We lost it because Progressives began undermining American in the 19th century. As they spread through the educational system, labor unions, and government at every level, they corrupted the United States.

It was DELIBERATE.

I tend to agree that is what turned the Constitution on its head and opened the door for government to start taking more and more power from the people. I think though that it was the turn of the 20th century when that happened. Instead of the Founders' concept of a government limited to what the Constitution mandated and allowed it to do, Teddy Roosevelt was the first to declare that government could do anything the Constitution did not explicitly forbid it from doing. And from that day onward, we have been sliding back into the authoritarian European form of government and away from the concept of liberty and a people who were set free to live their lives and govern themselves.

Let's not forget how much Big Money is also taking more and more power from the people.

Sorry. I have not had a single opportunity or liberty compromised in any way by 'big money'. I have seen a lot of my opportunities and liberties slip away to an ever encroaching big government though.

Try your voice in government.

 

[boedicca]

We didn't lose our way because of Partisan Bickering. We lost it because Progressives began undermining American in the 19th century. As they spread through the educational system, labor unions, and government at every level, they corrupted the United States.

It was DELIBERATE.

I tend to agree that is what turned the Constitution on its head and opened the door for government to start taking more and more power from the people. I think though that it was the turn of the 20th century when that happened. Instead of the Founders' concept of a government limited to what the Constitution mandated and allowed it to do, Teddy Roosevelt was the first to declare that government could do anything the Constitution did not explicitly forbid it from doing. And from that day onward, we have been sliding back into the authoritarian European form of government and away from the concept of liberty and a people who were set free to live their lives and govern themselves.

Progressivism in the U.S. gained a foothold in the late 19th century. It started out for ostensibly a good motive: to combat corruption in government. But as often happens, the reformers became the new Corrupt Gang.

 

[Foxfyre]

We didn't lose our way because of Partisan Bickering. We lost it because Progressives began undermining American in the 19th century. As they spread through the educational system, labor unions, and government at every level, they corrupted the United States.

It was DELIBERATE.

I tend to agree that is what turned the Constitution on its head and opened the door for government to start taking more and more power from the people. I think though that it was the turn of the 20th century when that happened. Instead of the Founders' concept of a government limited to what the Constitution mandated and allowed it to do, Teddy Roosevelt was the first to declare that government could do anything the Constitution did not explicitly forbid it from doing. And from that day onward, we have been sliding back into the authoritarian European form of government and away from the concept of liberty and a people who were set free to live their lives and govern themselves.

Let's not forget how much Big Money is also taking more and more power from the people.

Sorry. I have not had a single opportunity or liberty compromised in any way by 'big money'. I have seen a lot of my opportunities and liberties slip away to an ever encroaching big government though.

Try your voice in government.

I do all the time. The government is not listening because the government serves itself, not us.

 

[kiwiman127]

We didn't lose our way because of Partisan Bickering. We lost it because Progressives began undermining American in the 19th century. As they spread through the educational system, labor unions, and government at every level, they corrupted the United States.

It was DELIBERATE.

I tend to agree that is what turned the Constitution on its head and opened the door for government to start taking more and more power from the people. I think though that it was the turn of the 20th century when that happened. Instead of the Founders' concept of a government limited to what the Constitution mandated and allowed it to do, Teddy Roosevelt was the first to declare that government could do anything the Constitution did not explicitly forbid it from doing. And from that day onward, we have been sliding back into the authoritarian European form of government and away from the concept of liberty and a people who were set free to live their lives and govern themselves.

Let's not forget how much Big Money is also taking more and more power from the people.

Sorry. I have not had a single opportunity or liberty compromised in any way by 'big money'. I have seen a lot of my opportunities and liberties slip away to an ever encroaching big government though.

Try your voice in government.

I do all the time. The government is not listening because the government serves itself, not us.

I can't believe after the negative effects of NAFTA and CAFTA, that (they") are now ramming through another trade agreement (TPP) that applies to the Asiaian Pacific.
When I say "they", I mean the beneficiaries of these trade agreements and their bi-partisan tools in Congress, plus GW Bush, Clinton, George W Bush and Obama. The losers have been and are the working middle and poor class and small businesses. Of course the Big Money has won and will continue to win in regards to free trade agreements.

 

[Foxfyre]

I tend to agree that is what turned the Constitution on its head and opened the door for government to start taking more and more power from the people. I think though that it was the turn of the 20th century when that happened. Instead of the Founders' concept of a government limited to what the Constitution mandated and allowed it to do, Teddy Roosevelt was the first to declare that government could do anything the Constitution did not explicitly forbid it from doing. And from that day onward, we have been sliding back into the authoritarian European form of government and away from the concept of liberty and a people who were set free to live their lives and govern themselves.

Let's not forget how much Big Money is also taking more and more power from the people.

Sorry. I have not had a single opportunity or liberty compromised in any way by 'big money'. I have seen a lot of my opportunities and liberties slip away to an ever encroaching big government though.

Try your voice in government.

I do all the time. The government is not listening because the government serves itself, not us.

I can't believe after the negative effects of NAFTA and CAFTA, that (they") are now ramming through another trade agreement (TPP) that applies to the Asiaian Pacific.
When I say "they", I mean the beneficiaries of these trade agreements and their bi-partisan tools in Congress, plus GW Bush, Clinton, George W Bush and Obama. The losers have been and are the working middle and poor class and small businesses. Of course the Big Money has won and will continue to win in regards to free trade agreements.

So who is the one to blame when things go bad? The one who asks for the favor? Or the one who has the power to grant it? There are always those who blame the other man or other woman but somehow don't see the spouse as the one to blame for unfaithfulness. And the one who petitions favors from government can hardly be blamed when the government is the one in control. Even General Electric cannot demand that government do anything.

If we returned to the original intended function of government--that function that began to erode at the turn of the last century and greatly escalated after the cultural revolution of the 60's--then government would see itself as having no authority to grant favors to any person, group, entity, demographic, or whatever no matter how big the bribes.

 

[haissem123]

we are all for sale and that puts us all in danger of being personally bribed against our better larger communities mutual benefits. me me me. dems vs gop both seem to be partying off all our demises to me. how can one be a free thinker and voter when one ties himself to a sub group with in u.s. all? gotta stop with all the selfies and see the larger family photo

 

[Foxfyre]

we are all for sale and that puts us all in danger of being personally bribed against our better larger communities mutual benefits. me me me. dems vs gop both seem to be partying off all our demises to me. how can one be a free thinker and voter when one ties himself to a sub group with in u.s. all? gotta stop with all the selfies and see the larger family photo

While I agree that getting whatever we can get for ourselves from government has become a blood sport, I think there is a real danger in shifting the argument to some kind of collective mentality or 'consideration for the common good.' Far more historical horror stories have come from that than has resulted from self-serving greed. I personally want to shift completely away from government as the giant sugar daddy, Santa Claus, and national piggy bank, to a return to private enterprise as the path to prosperity. Let the government return to a role of referee to enforce a few necessary rules to secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives.

 

[haissem123]

we are all for sale and that puts us all in danger of being personally bribed against our better larger communities mutual benefits. me me me. dems vs gop both seem to be partying off all our demises to me. how can one be a free thinker and voter when one ties himself to a sub group with in u.s. all? gotta stop with all the selfies and see the larger family photo

While I agree that getting whatever we can get for ourselves from government has become a blood sport, I think there is a real danger in shifting the argument to some kind of collective mentality or 'consideration for the common good.' Far more historical horror stories have come from that than has resulted from self-serving greed. I personally want to shift completely away from government as the giant sugar daddy, Santa Claus, and national piggy bank, to a return to private enterprise as the path to prosperity. Let the government return to a role of referee to enforce a few necessary rules to secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives.

So who ever has the strongest or smartest army can take whatever resources and claim them as their own private enterprise? I think I see where that keeps getting us. Anything and everything sacred or not has been perverted by mankind. Don't ask me how we let ourselves get away with it. lol.

 

[Foxfyre]

we are all for sale and that puts us all in danger of being personally bribed against our better larger communities mutual benefits. me me me. dems vs gop both seem to be partying off all our demises to me. how can one be a free thinker and voter when one ties himself to a sub group with in u.s. all? gotta stop with all the selfies and see the larger family photo

While I agree that getting whatever we can get for ourselves from government has become a blood sport, I think there is a real danger in shifting the argument to some kind of collective mentality or 'consideration for the common good.' Far more historical horror stories have come from that than has resulted from self-serving greed. I personally want to shift completely away from government as the giant sugar daddy, Santa Claus, and national piggy bank, to a return to private enterprise as the path to prosperity. Let the government return to a role of referee to enforce a few necessary rules to secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives.

So who ever has the strongest or smartest army can take whatever resources and claim them as their own private enterprise? I think I see where that keeps getting us. Anything and everything sacred or not has been perverted by mankind. Don't ask me how we let ourselves get away with it. lol.

That isn't what I said or even vaguely implied though.

 

[haissem123]

we are all for sale and that puts us all in danger of being personally bribed against our better larger communities mutual benefits. me me me. dems vs gop both seem to be partying off all our demises to me. how can one be a free thinker and voter when one ties himself to a sub group with in u.s. all? gotta stop with all the selfies and see the larger family photo

While I agree that getting whatever we can get for ourselves from government has become a blood sport, I think there is a real danger in shifting the argument to some kind of collective mentality or 'consideration for the common good.' Far more historical horror stories have come from that than has resulted from self-serving greed. I personally want to shift completely away from government as the giant sugar daddy, Santa Claus, and national piggy bank, to a return to private enterprise as the path to prosperity. Let the government return to a role of referee to enforce a few necessary rules to secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives.

So who ever has the strongest or smartest army can take whatever resources and claim them as their own private enterprise? I think I see where that keeps getting us. Anything and everything sacred or not has been perverted by mankind. Don't ask me how we let ourselves get away with it. lol.

That isn't what I said or even vaguely implied though.

some people always take things to the extreme. I too cried for there were no more worlds to conquer. lol

 

[Foxfyre]

we are all for sale and that puts us all in danger of being personally bribed against our better larger communities mutual benefits. me me me. dems vs gop both seem to be partying off all our demises to me. how can one be a free thinker and voter when one ties himself to a sub group with in u.s. all? gotta stop with all the selfies and see the larger family photo

While I agree that getting whatever we can get for ourselves from government has become a blood sport, I think there is a real danger in shifting the argument to some kind of collective mentality or 'consideration for the common good.' Far more historical horror stories have come from that than has resulted from self-serving greed. I personally want to shift completely away from government as the giant sugar daddy, Santa Claus, and national piggy bank, to a return to private enterprise as the path to prosperity. Let the government return to a role of referee to enforce a few necessary rules to secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives.

So who ever has the strongest or smartest army can take whatever resources and claim them as their own private enterprise? I think I see where that keeps getting us. Anything and everything sacred or not has been perverted by mankind. Don't ask me how we let ourselves get away with it. lol.

That isn't what I said or even vaguely implied though.

some people always take things to the extreme. I too cried for there were no more worlds to conquer. lol

Oh there are a lot of worlds to conquer yet. The problem is that those who do not understand and/or appreciate the basic concepts of liberty that were written into the original Constitution will never argue those concepts. They will continue to build straw man after straw man, engage in dishonest mischaracterization and non sequitur, and throw in a few red herrings for good measure to avoid discussing those concepts.

Once those concepts were discarded in favor of a return to totalitarianism and/or collectivism, then we lost our constitutional republic as the Founder intended it. And that provoked the OP that started this thread.

 

[Derideo_Te]

This is a FASCINATING topic and the OP is extremely well-written, in my opinion.

I am wondering if there is a geographic component to this, meaning, whether some corners of the USA have been "corporatized" faster and earlier than the rest.

What say you?

First, Thank you for the kind words...
Not as much as I used to before 2008, but over the past couple decades I travelled throughout the midwest states, and a few trips to FL and MN.
What I can say is, at least in the Midwest, at least 90% of the growth or new business development has been corporate box stores. Whether that be restaurants, big box hardware, retail chains and discounts stores or even down to plumbing chains and other more traditionally small mom and pops.

Consider....in 1955, the top 5 employers in the U.S. were all builders and producers. Amoco, GM, US Steel etc.
TODAY - Walmart, YUM! Brands and McDonalds are the top three. The top 10 also include retail chains like Target and national grocers.
Seriously?? More people work in retail chains than true industries.
We are no longer a nation of movers and shakers. Builders and achievers...we work at Walmart and Home Depot.
So I don't know if this is geographic or not...by generally the nation as a whole? - absolutely.

I happened across this thread this morning and thought it ended too soon.

Revisiting the thread topic, do you (you being anybody who wants to respond) wonder why we are now a nation in which retail and service businesses eclipse the builders and manufacturers that once grounded our economic growth? Should we not consider that it was the increasing concentration of power in a central government--a concept that the Founders intended would not happen--and the resulting ability of government to control more and more of how Americans would do business, commerce, and industry, that resulted in such unintended negative consequences?

Yes OSHA laws have reduced many injuries and hazards of the workplace. Yes the EPA has provided a means to clean up badly polluted soil, water, and air. Yes child labor laws have eliminated one form of child abuse. Yes minimum wage laws, unemployment compensation, mandatory work comp laws, mandatory overtime pay, and now mandatory healthcare insurance etc. has improved the situation of many individuals.

But it has all come at a very heavy price, a price that big corporations who can move most of their primary money making operations overseas can easily afford while the small mom and pop businesses have no such option. We lost our manufacturing base because government meddling, excessive taxes, and regulation drove it to other countries where it could be done more profitably even considering higher shipping costs. And the big box stores gained a huge foothold because they could absorb the government regulations more easily, and each store could operate on a lower profit margin than could their smaller competitors. So the mom and pop businesses are being forced out of business.

Everything is always going to change as civilization advances. But all things are not for the best. I would like to see the federal government busted back close to its constitutional roots and restore the power to the people to order the society they want to have. The transition would be tough, but once we adjusted, I think we would see the old American can do spirit return.

We lost our manufacturing base because government meddling, excessive taxes, and regulation drove it to other countries where it could be done more profitably even considering higher shipping costs.

Assumes facts not in evidence. The "free markets" dogma was a de facto elimination of regulations so as to make it profitable to ship manufacturing jobs overseas and taxes were lowered resulting in the current massive debt being dumped on taxpayers.

I would like to see the federal government busted back close to its constitutional roots and restore the power to the people to order the society they want to have.

That plays right into the hands of those that want to "fleece America" per the OP. Without a government there is absolutely nothing to stop them.

The transition would be tough,

How many would needlessly die during this "transition"?

 

[Derideo_Te]

We didn't lose our way because of Partisan Bickering. We lost it because Progressives began undermining American in the 19th century. As they spread through the educational system, labor unions, and government at every level, they corrupted the United States.

It was DELIBERATE.

Winning the Civil War had consequences!

 

[haissem123]

we are all for sale and that puts us all in danger of being personally bribed against our better larger communities mutual benefits. me me me. dems vs gop both seem to be partying off all our demises to me. how can one be a free thinker and voter when one ties himself to a sub group with in u.s. all? gotta stop with all the selfies and see the larger family photo

While I agree that getting whatever we can get for ourselves from government has become a blood sport, I think there is a real danger in shifting the argument to some kind of collective mentality or 'consideration for the common good.' Far more historical horror stories have come from that than has resulted from self-serving greed. I personally want to shift completely away from government as the giant sugar daddy, Santa Claus, and national piggy bank, to a return to private enterprise as the path to prosperity. Let the government return to a role of referee to enforce a few necessary rules to secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives.

So who ever has the strongest or smartest army can take whatever resources and claim them as their own private enterprise? I think I see where that keeps getting us. Anything and everything sacred or not has been perverted by mankind. Don't ask me how we let ourselves get away with it. lol.

That isn't what I said or even vaguely implied though.

some people always take things to the extreme. I too cried for there were no more worlds to conquer. lol

Oh there are a lot of worlds to conquer yet. The problem is that those who do not understand and/or appreciate the basic concepts of liberty that were written into the original Constitution will never argue those concepts. They will continue to build straw man after straw man, engage in dishonest mischaracterization and non sequitur, and throw in a few red herrings for good measure to avoid discussing those concepts.

Once those concepts were discarded in favor of a return to totalitarianism and/or collectivism, then we lost our constitutional republic as the Founder intended it. And that provoked the OP that started this thread.

the concept of the many working for the benefit of a few is a failed concept. the concept that a few can be allowed to consolidate money/power and therefore controlling the world as modern day kings with their full courts pressing us all downward is long since been proven a bad and failed economic model and social structure. etc. etc..

 

[Foxfyre]

While I agree that getting whatever we can get for ourselves from government has become a blood sport, I think there is a real danger in shifting the argument to some kind of collective mentality or 'consideration for the common good.' Far more historical horror stories have come from that than has resulted from self-serving greed. I personally want to shift completely away from government as the giant sugar daddy, Santa Claus, and national piggy bank, to a return to private enterprise as the path to prosperity. Let the government return to a role of referee to enforce a few necessary rules to secure our rights and then leave us alone to live our lives.

So who ever has the strongest or smartest army can take whatever resources and claim them as their own private enterprise? I think I see where that keeps getting us. Anything and everything sacred or not has been perverted by mankind. Don't ask me how we let ourselves get away with it. lol.

That isn't what I said or even vaguely implied though.

some people always take things to the extreme. I too cried for there were no more worlds to conquer. lol

Oh there are a lot of worlds to conquer yet. The problem is that those who do not understand and/or appreciate the basic concepts of liberty that were written into the original Constitution will never argue those concepts. They will continue to build straw man after straw man, engage in dishonest mischaracterization and non sequitur, and throw in a few red herrings for good measure to avoid discussing those concepts.

Once those concepts were discarded in favor of a return to totalitarianism and/or collectivism, then we lost our constitutional republic as the Founder intended it. And that provoked the OP that started this thread.

the concept of the many working for the benefit of a few is a failed concept. the concept that a few can be allowed to consolidate money/power and therefore controlling the world as modern day kings with their full courts pressing us all downward is long since been proven a bad and failed economic model and social structure. etc. etc..

In a free society, the many don't work for the benefit of the few. In a free society, each person works for his/her own benefit and in so doing benefits everybody else. Government is a far greater danger to intentionally in inadvertently restrict our ability to prosper than is the fact that some will become richer than others.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

In my opinion, and I would hope most agree, in America we do not have a free market.
For instance, I have been to Mexico three times. In even the larger/nice cities the streets are filled with street vendors selling food and goods. At night you can get some pretty damn good food cooked by people living in the area that simply set up an area and start cooking. You can judge for yourself if the food is clean/cooking area is clean because it is cooked right in front of you.
In the mornings, many people do not fix breakfast at home. They simply walk outside and throughout neighborhoods there are fresh fruit vendors and people selling some mean Huevos rancheros or breakfast tacos etc. As well as different people selling items they make at home.
Try to do that in your neighborhood.

Throughout the world this is a common practice and way for many people to earn xtra cash.
There are many other examples such as this.
In America markets are protected. The governments invents looong lists of regulations and requirements that greatly increase the cost of startups - and completely kills the chance of a person doing something just to earn extra money all to protect corporate interest and markets.