America is gone

[G.T.]

No what you wrote was

It sounded like you were trying to leave work out of the equation.

Maybe Family Work then fun

post 22 came before your dickheadishness.

stop being a a punk needle dick.

You're the one being a punk.

You're pretending I said we shouldn't work, when clearly post #22 where I clearly stated we should just work *less* ............came before your accusations.

So you're being a douchebag. Stoppit.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't disagree.

I feel that we're intelligent enough and have the tecnhology to have robots do most of our labor - we could work much less and have time to, gee I don't know, actually ENJOY beign a free person - and we could also retain the capacity to create incentives to innovate.

I admire human progress in terms of technology..............but in terms of our sociology? PISS-POOR.

40 hour work week is no way to live a life, and it's no way to raise and nurture a family.

You do realize automation has put a lot of people out of work. And corpations would agree with you. more robots working means less people you have to keep on a payroll, no more insurence or sick days off. 24/7 work for the robots and profits for the corpations.

Well the whole technology is the answer rhetoric is failed anyway. Why? Cause you need labor to mine the copper, you need labor to mine and process the steel. Mercury and gold for the computers. Oil for the plastics. Energy for the automation (coal) etc.

Anyone that thinks we can just make robots to do all the work for us is pretty far removed from how things are actually produced and made.

I agree

 

[bigrebnc1775]

post 22 came before your dickheadishness.

stop being a a punk needle dick.

You're the one being a punk.

You're pretending I said we shouldn't work, when clearly post #22 where I clearly stated we should just work *less* ............came before your accusations.

So you're being a douchebag. Stoppit.

move along junior to many adults in this discussion for you to play games.

 

[G.T.]

stop being a a punk needle dick.

You're the one being a punk.

You're pretending I said we shouldn't work, when clearly post #22 where I clearly stated we should just work *less* ............came before your accusations.

So you're being a douchebag. Stoppit.

move along junior to many adults in this discussion for you to play games.

To, two, too - Mr. "Adult."

 

[WatertheTree]

I don't disagree.

I feel that we're intelligent enough and have the tecnhology to have robots do most of our labor - we could work much less and have time to, gee I don't know, actually ENJOY beign a free person - and we could also retain the capacity to create incentives to innovate.

I admire human progress in terms of technology..............but in terms of our sociology? PISS-POOR.

40 hour work week is no way to live a life, and it's no way to raise and nurture a family.

A 40 hour work week is nothing to complain about. And that is not a life as you described earlier. Spending 40 hours a week producing and contributing to society is not to much to ask.

My opinion stems from people working 40-60 hours a week to just barely keep there heads above water. Not from lazy people that dont want to contribute at all.

We disagree on that. I think it is indeed a lot to contribute. It's hard to see it that way when it's all we've ever known - but disagreeing with the way things are isn't born out of laziness.

The career driven or else you're lazy mentality never quite made sense to me.

The reason, in my opinion, isn't because I'm tired, or don't want to move, or don't want to "contribute."

It's because I know that there are less and less families making it in this Country because the "nuclear" family went from Dad working, Mom raising the children, to mom and dad working and random nanny raising the children. Nights at home spent half cooking and cleaning up dinner, and the other half spending minimal time with the kids and then tucking them in for the same cycle the next day.

To me, this structure is fundamentally wrong.

Not because I'm anti "hard work," and it would be disengenuous to try to paint me into a corner like that.

But because I think the way it's set up is bad for humanity in general. I also think that we're capable of designing a more efficient system where you've more time to be free and enjoy yourself, and I don't think there's anything WRONG with that. You get 1 go-around at this, as far as I'm concerned, and I'd much rather spend it around my family and kids and seeing the beauty of the planet - in the MAJORITY of my time, rather than being a slave to an alarm clock and having my kids raised by nannies and school-systems the MAJORITY of the time.

I think that the balance is off, and I also think that it doesn't need to be. Laziness has nothing to do with it.

A modern society with cars, cell phones, computers, and mcdonalds requires alot of hard work to maintain. If you dont want to work hard in this country you can. Marry a man that shares your ideals. Quite your job and stay at home. The problem that you say is not laziness is infact laziness.

You want the life your talking about and let go of your second car. Let go of cell phones for the family. Let go of cable tv. Let go of your own private plantation in suburbs. Forget about eating out except for 1-2 times a week. Stop buying soda.

The responsable poor (yes they do exist, contrary to popular belief there are people doing everything they can and not getting anywhere) have already let go of these things, and they are working 50+ hours a week to get ahead. Mom staying at home is not a choice. There is no retirement for these people. There lives will not change untill they die.

Forgive me, but I think your opinion is that of a spoiled child.

 

[uscitizen]

the golden age of the USA is past for one basic reason. increasing profit.

 

[G.T.]

A 40 hour work week is nothing to complain about. And that is not a life as you described earlier. Spending 40 hours a week producing and contributing to society is not to much to ask.

My opinion stems from people working 40-60 hours a week to just barely keep there heads above water. Not from lazy people that dont want to contribute at all.

We disagree on that. I think it is indeed a lot to contribute. It's hard to see it that way when it's all we've ever known - but disagreeing with the way things are isn't born out of laziness.

The career driven or else you're lazy mentality never quite made sense to me.

The reason, in my opinion, isn't because I'm tired, or don't want to move, or don't want to "contribute."

It's because I know that there are less and less families making it in this Country because the "nuclear" family went from Dad working, Mom raising the children, to mom and dad working and random nanny raising the children. Nights at home spent half cooking and cleaning up dinner, and the other half spending minimal time with the kids and then tucking them in for the same cycle the next day.

To me, this structure is fundamentally wrong.

Not because I'm anti "hard work," and it would be disengenuous to try to paint me into a corner like that.

But because I think the way it's set up is bad for humanity in general. I also think that we're capable of designing a more efficient system where you've more time to be free and enjoy yourself, and I don't think there's anything WRONG with that. You get 1 go-around at this, as far as I'm concerned, and I'd much rather spend it around my family and kids and seeing the beauty of the planet - in the MAJORITY of my time, rather than being a slave to an alarm clock and having my kids raised by nannies and school-systems the MAJORITY of the time.

I think that the balance is off, and I also think that it doesn't need to be. Laziness has nothing to do with it.

A modern society with cars, cell phones, computers, and mcdonalds requires alot of hard work to maintain. If you dont want to work hard in this country you can. Marry a man that shares your ideals. Quite your job and stay at home. The problem that you say is not laziness is infact laziness.

You want the life your talking about and let go of your second car. Let go of cell phones for the family. Let go of cable tv. Let go of your own private plantation in suburbs. Forget about eating out except for 1-2 times a week. Stop buying soda.

The responsable poor (yes they do exist, contrary to popular belief there are people doing everything they can and not getting anywhere) have already let go of these things, and they are working 50+ hours a week to get ahead. Mom staying at home is not a choice. There is no retirement for these people. There lives will not change untill they die.

Forgive me, but I think your opinion is that of a spoiled child.

That's only because you misunderstand it and you can't open your mind past the precedent which we've all grown accustomed to.

 

[Samson]

the golden age of the USA is past for one basic reason. increasing profit.

Yes, no one in the USA was never interested in increasing profit before 1980.



It will be getting colder sleeping outside in a park in NYC; I don't expect it will improve your mental condition.

 

[WatertheTree]

the golden age of the USA is past for one basic reason. increasing profit.

And peoples narcissim. Most middle class families are trying to prop up a 250k house, 3 cars, 2+ cell phones, PS3's + Games, Multipul TV's, 100 a month on cable tv, spending 100 a month on soft drinks etc.

Alot of peoples problems are created themselves, others are not. Minimum wage for example is not a wage that anyone can live off of, nomatter how much wisdom is used in purchasing decisions.

 

[Katzndogz]

The difference in mentality is astounding!

The wealthiest and most successful people are known to work 80 hours or more a week. Donald Trump works about 85 hours a week. The richest man in China starts work at 7am and finishes at 11 pm every day. He's almost 70. Steve Jobs worked 90 hours a week.

People who want more fun time are guaranteeing their place among the poor. That they want those who really bust buns to pay for their fun time is completely disgusting.

 

[G.T.]

The difference in mentality is astounding!

The wealthiest and most successful people are known to work 80 hours or more a week. Donald Trump works about 85 hours a week. The richest man in China starts work at 7am and finishes at 11 pm every day. He's almost 70. Steve Jobs worked 90 hours a week.

People who want more fun time are guaranteeing their place among the poor. That they want those who really bust buns to pay for their fun time is completely disgusting.

You assume way too much about what I want.

And I'm not "people," I'm ME.

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with wealth, rich, poor, or how much anyone spends on a car or a cell-phone. I'm talking about the fundamental make-up of human society. You're relating it back to the current rich vs. poor rhetoric which is going on, in today's National conversation.

I don't want more - for working less - than somebody, and I didn't even say that at all.
I'm talking about Society in general, not me personally. I think that all of society would benefit if it was the NORM to become less career driven and more family/people driven with the majority of their waking hours, as opposed to what we have now.

It's not because I'm lazy, and it's not because I want anything of someone else's. That's way not the point. The point is, if we as "Humanity" only get to live ONCE, we should minimize (not eliminate) how long the "system" in-terms of hours limits your freedom.

 

[WatertheTree]

the golden age of the USA is past for one basic reason. increasing profit.

And peoples narcissim. Most middle class families are trying to prop up a 250k house, 3 cars, 2+ cell phones, PS3's + Games, Multipul TV's, 100 a month on cable tv, spending 100 a month on soft drinks etc.

Alot of peoples problems are created themselves, others are not. Minimum wage for example is not a wage that anyone can live off of, nomatter how much wisdom is used in purchasing decisions.

Im going recant much of this. While I think it is a problem, I agree that the golden age is done. The enequality of wages and income has little to do with peoples own personel responsability.

So far as claiming that rich people work harder, yes its easy to find a few people and say 'look that guy works hard, he deserves it', and yes, those people do deserve it. What is to be said of people who work just as hard and get nowhere?

I would further challange the numbers these 'success stories' are touting. 90 hours a week minus 2 hours a day for dinner, 1 hour a day for lunch, 2 hours a day for the gym etc. People who dont punch a clock and have a supervisor usually do work longer hours, but its usually because they dont manage there time in the same way.

This says nothing for investors who make TONS of money without lifting a finger. Or ceo's that get paid billions for NOTHING.

 

[Katzndogz]

The difference in mentality is astounding!

The wealthiest and most successful people are known to work 80 hours or more a week. Donald Trump works about 85 hours a week. The richest man in China starts work at 7am and finishes at 11 pm every day. He's almost 70. Steve Jobs worked 90 hours a week.

People who want more fun time are guaranteeing their place among the poor. That they want those who really bust buns to pay for their fun time is completely disgusting.

You assume way too much about what I want.

And I'm not "people," I'm ME.

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with wealth, rich, poor, or how much anyone spends on a car or a cell-phone. I'm talking about the fundamental make-up of human society. You're relating it back to the current rich vs. poor rhetoric which is going on, in today's National conversation.

I don't want more - for working less - than somebody, and I didn't even say that at all.
I'm talking about Society in general, not me personally. I think that all of society would benefit if it was the NORM to become less career driven and more family/people driven with the majority of their waking hours, as opposed to what we have now.

It's not because I'm lazy, and it's not because I want anything of someone else's. That's way not the point. The point is, if we as "Humanity" only get to live ONCE, we should minimize (not eliminate) how long the "system" in-terms of hours limits your freedom.

Then your freedom for fun time comes with a price. You should be more than willing to pay it yourself, not ask for someone else to pay it. What you suggest is to set a standard for the NORM based on what you desire for yourself. Like it or not, one person, like yourself will choose to have more time for personal enjoyment or family time. Another person will choose to work very hard, very long hours, and have much more money than you. It is not up to you to decide which actions are best or even normal for someone else.

 

[G.T.]

The difference in mentality is astounding!

The wealthiest and most successful people are known to work 80 hours or more a week. Donald Trump works about 85 hours a week. The richest man in China starts work at 7am and finishes at 11 pm every day. He's almost 70. Steve Jobs worked 90 hours a week.

People who want more fun time are guaranteeing their place among the poor. That they want those who really bust buns to pay for their fun time is completely disgusting.

You assume way too much about what I want.

And I'm not "people," I'm ME.

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with wealth, rich, poor, or how much anyone spends on a car or a cell-phone. I'm talking about the fundamental make-up of human society. You're relating it back to the current rich vs. poor rhetoric which is going on, in today's National conversation.

I don't want more - for working less - than somebody, and I didn't even say that at all.
I'm talking about Society in general, not me personally. I think that all of society would benefit if it was the NORM to become less career driven and more family/people driven with the majority of their waking hours, as opposed to what we have now.

It's not because I'm lazy, and it's not because I want anything of someone else's. That's way not the point. The point is, if we as "Humanity" only get to live ONCE, we should minimize (not eliminate) how long the "system" in-terms of hours limits your freedom.

Then your freedom for fun time comes with a price. You should be more than willing to pay it yourself, not ask for someone else to pay it. What you suggest is to set a standard for the NORM based on what you desire for yourself. Like it or not, one person, like yourself will choose to have more time for personal enjoyment or family time. Another person will choose to work very hard, very long hours, and have much more money than you. It is not up to you to decide which actions are best or even normal for someone else.

All your response says to me is that you have no idea what the hell I'm talking about and you're arguing things that aren't even involved in what I typed.

 

[BDBoop]

America is gone

Are you sure? Where did you see it last? I find it always helps to start from there, and work your way forward.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In America 2.0, in order to vote, you have to show photo ID and you have to have passed a citizenship test demonstrating some basic knowledge of our form of government. The only mail in ballots accept will be from US military personnel serving overseas

 

[Firehorse]

First off ... If the USA is gone, the world collapses. If we don't buy or build world products, if the US farmers don't provide grain ... If the USA stops funding the world ... The entire world is done. In effect, the USA is too big to fail

The world is trembling in it's shoes because of Greece. The would counldnt survive in anything like it's current form if the USA is done.

1) CBO basing it's calculations on the the actual numbers from the last quarter, nit on hypothetical 4% growth. Not knowing how much something does/will cost is killing us.

2) Term limits, one term per branch of government.

3) Balanced budget amendment ... This is a must. To exceed in times of rouble should be allowed, but only with a state by state vote. We have the technology to do this, let's do it.

4) No riders on bills. What a bill is is what it is.

5) Law makes put in 40hr work week like the rest of us and get days off like the rest of us, they are paid the average anual income of the nation.

6) No filibusters. No ability to stall a bill or sit on it. If it is written, it gets voted on within a resonable time frame.

7) Massive downsize of Federal Government. OSHA stays, as do certain environmental laws, but after that EPA is gone. Department of Education is gone, Csars are gone, Government redundancy is gone, DOD is looked at closely and honestly. National defense is a priority, a 12 aircraft carrier is not.

8) News the actually reports the news in facts ... News used to tell you what's happening in the US and the world, without bias ... That's something that has turned this nation as partisan as it is.

9) No political contribution of more then $500 per person ... Period. That $1 you check on your tax return funds all political parties ... Not just the two. Political ads are restricted to late night/early morning hours ... Debates televisied primetime and with moderators that actually are reading real life questions. (this would involve some restriction of freedom of speach as it applied to political ads by 'neutral parties')

10) Enforce the freakin laws

 

[Firehorse]

First off ... If the USA is gone, the world collapses. If we don't buy or build world products, if the US farmers don't provide grain ... If the USA stops funding the world ... The entire world is done. In effect, the USA is too big to fail

The world is trembling in it's shoes because of Greece. The would counldnt survive in anything like it's current form if the USA is done.

1) CBO basing it's calculations on the the actual numbers from the last quarter, nit on hypothetical 4% growth. Not knowing how much something does/will cost is killing us.

2) Term limits, one term per branch of government.

3) Balanced budget amendment ... This is a must. To exceed in times of rouble should be allowed, but only with a state by state vote. We have the technology to do this, let's do it.

4) No riders on bills. What a bill is is what it is.

5) Law makes put in 40hr work week like the rest of us and get days off like the rest of us, they are paid the average anual income of the nation.

6) No filibusters. No ability to stall a bill or sit on it. If it is written, it gets voted on within a resonable time frame.

7) Massive downsize of Federal Government. OSHA stays, as do certain environmental laws, but after that EPA is gone. Department of Education is gone, Csars are gone, Government redundancy is gone, DOD is looked at closely and honestly. National defense is a priority, a 12 aircraft carrier is not.

8) News the actually reports the news in facts ... News used to tell you what's happening in the US and the world, without bias ... That's something that has turned this nation as partisan as it is.

9) No political contribution of more then $500 per person ... Period. That $1 you check on your tax return funds all political parties ... Not just the two. Political ads are restricted to late night/early morning hours ... Debates televisied primetime and with moderators that actually are reading real life questions. (this would involve some restriction of freedom of speach as it applied to political ads by 'neutral parties')

10) Enforce the freakin laws

 

[MiddleClass]

By voting out of office all who support the top 1% wealthiest over the middle class.

 

[MiddleClass]

the golden age of the USA is past for one basic reason. increasing profit.

Yes, no one in the USA was never interested in increasing profit before 1980.

.

When its become all about profit over the good of America, than profit has become a dirty word. When the baby boomers parents ruled our businesses and government they did so with a much more balanced approach, with more equitable shares of the AMERICAN pie. The Greatest Generation spoiled their baby boom children, and when their offspring replaced them atop of Corporate AMERICA and Government, those spoiled baby boomers took everything for themselves, and left little for the masses. One day, the spoiled baby boomers will be old and hopefully the next generation(s) will bring America back to a time when all shared in its great wealth, not just the top !% wealthiest