America...Hanging By Four Words

PoliticalChic

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In June we should expect to find out whether this is a nation of laws, or a post-constitutional totalitarian bastion.


The ACA Law states clearly these words: ""established by the state."

And this was exactly what the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats intended.....it was not in error.

Passed by a Congress with nary a Republican vote.

Now, the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats are before the court arguing that, well....we meant it, but now we want the President to be able to change it.....



1. "The plaintiffs are four Virginians who argue an IRS rule providing insurance subsidies in federal-run exchanges violates the text of the Affordable Care Act. The challenge, which is being funded by a libertarian think tank, argues the section of the ACA dealing with the subsidies only provides for aid in an exchange "established by the state" — and therefore, none of the nearly three dozen states with federal-run exchanges.

The Obama administration and supporters say a full reading of the law makes clear that the subsidies can flow through federal-run exchanges, which they argue was the intent of Congress when they drafted the law.— and therefore, none of the nearly three dozen states with federal-run exchanges.

The Obama administration and supporters say a full reading of the law makes clear that the subsidies can flow through federal-run exchanges, which they argue was the intent of Congress when they drafted the law."
Six quick facts about today s massive Supreme Court case that could derail Obamacare - The Washington Post




2. "Separation of powers among three branches of government is a central principle in the U.S. Constitution.According to Articles 1, 2, and 3, the Congress makes laws, the President as chief executive enforces them, and the federal judges interpret them in specific cases."
“The Founders of this Nation entrusted the lawmaking power to the Congress alone in both good and bad times,” wrote (Justice Hugo) Black."
http://www.sunnylandsclassroom.org/Downloads/ACBooks/Pursuit of Justice/Chapters/101-107_Ch.12.pdf




3. . "The concept of ‘checks and balances’ is viewed by Progressives as standing in the way of addressing every and any ‘social ill.’It is of more than passing interesting thatProgressives view of government is of the contrary: powers must be centralized in an executive,and the bureaucratsthat invest this type of government. “…the agencies comprising the bureaucracy reside within the executive branch of our national government, but their powers transcend the traditional boundaries of executive power to include both legislative and judicial functions, and these powers are often exercised in a manner that is largely independent of presidential control and altogether independent of political control.”
The Birth of the Administrative State Where It Came From and What It Means for Limited Government





4. In the forty-seventh paper of The Federalist, Madison wrote,
The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.”




The Supreme Court will clarify whether this is still America, or some iteration of the regime that Franklin Roosevelt envied, that of Joseph Stalin.
 
And this was exactly what the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats intended.....it was not in error.

Can you show us congress critters or senators arguing on the floor of their House saying this is what the law intended, not to cover federal exchanges?

Can you show us this intention that you claim exists in the Law itself?

Can you show us anything, anything at all, that this was the intention of those who voted yes, and passed this Act?
 
And this was exactly what the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats intended.....it was not in error.

Can you show us congress critters or senators arguing on the floor of their House saying this is what the law intended, not to cover federal exchanges?

Can you show us this intention that you claim exists in the Law itself?

Can you show us anything, anything at all, that this was the intention of those who voted yes, and passed this Act?


Can you read?

Do you understand the meaning of "established by the state"?


There is no disagreement on the import and the reason why your Liberal/Progressive/Democrat pals wrote "established by the state" into the law.

They imagined that the bribes....called subsidies....would be enough to persuade every state into setting up their own exchanges.



You can try to obfuscate all you wish....

....but the only question is a constitutional one: can the dictator in the White House, the one you support, assume powers denied him by the Constitution.

Too bad you aren't a real American, with respect for the Constitution.
 
Pretty sure Gruber confirmed it was on purpose




This in the article quoted in the OP:

"5. MIT economist Jonathan Gruber first earned notoriety because of this challenge. Opponents of the law last summer circulated a 2012 video of him saying — contrary to the administration's argument — that states would deprive their residents of subsidies if they didn't set up their own exchanges. Gruber, who had widely been described as an architect of the ACA, later said the comments were a mistake."



Although the other poster would love to provide cover for the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats....

....there is no disputing the facts.
 
The rules of legislative interpretation are quite clear. The court need not go into the legislative history when the words themselves are clear and unambiguous.

Those four words could not be any more clear.

The disturbing thing about this "controversy" as it currently exists is that there are tens of millions of people around this country - people who apparently were in the toilet during all of their High School civics classes - who believe that if the USSC rules against O'BamaCare they will be engaging in evil "judicial activism."

It's fucking pathetic.
 
The rules of legislative interpretation are quite clear. The court need not go into the legislative history when the words themselves are clear and unambiguous.

Those four words could not be any more clear.

The disturbing thing about this "controversy" as it currently exists is that there are tens of millions of people around this country - people who apparently were in the toilet during all of their High School civics classes - who believe that if the USSC rules against O'BamaCare they will be engaging in evil "judicial activism."

It's fucking pathetic.



So true.

The only question that should be on the minds of the Justices is the one of separation of powers.
 
ya... PC knows what the high court is disagreeing about. but she has the answers. lol...

I guess in a simplistic world

but the whole drama queen thing about "America... hanging by four words" is really funny.
 
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The rules of legislative interpretation are quite clear. The court need not go into the legislative history when the words themselves are clear and unambiguous.

Those four words could not be any more clear.

The disturbing thing about this "controversy" as it currently exists is that there are tens of millions of people around this country - people who apparently were in the toilet during all of their High School civics classes - who believe that if the USSC rules against O'BamaCare they will be engaging in evil "judicial activism."

It's fucking pathetic.

Kennedy Offers An Escape Hatch For Government In Obamacare Case - Forbes

"Under the canon of statutory interpretation known as constitutional avoidance, if judges have a choice between a constitutional and unconstitutional reading of an ambiguous statute, they must choose the constitutional one."
 
And this was exactly what the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats intended.....it was not in error.

Can you show us congress critters or senators arguing on the floor of their House saying this is what the law intended, not to cover federal exchanges?

Can you show us this intention that you claim exists in the Law itself?

Can you show us anything, anything at all, that this was the intention of those who voted yes, and passed this Act?

Care4all
Can you show us where the ACA was passed both through Congress and through Courts as a tax?
Or passed through both Congress and Courts as a public health care bill and not a revenue bill?

When it passed through Congress, it was argued as NOT a tax, so even if it passed through Congress,
the Courts could check this federal legislation against Constitutional duties specified for federal govt.
And sure enough, all the arguments it was based on such as Commerce Clause FAILED and were not justified.

However, the one area that was declared Constitutional for federal govt to regulate was the ACA as a TAX.
But that is NOT what Congress voted on. This was voted on as an amendment to a public health care bill,
not a tax/revenue bill.

This issue of changing the jurisdiction and justification of laws in order to
favor one political belief over another is disturbing.

This is like church authorities arguing over interpretations of the law to mandate for followers.

However in this case, the laws are mandatory and citizens are being required to pay for them under penalty of law.

If you are going to play around with people's beliefs, this should be kept private to the people, churches,
parties or charities to follow the beliefs of their choice.

Last I checked the First and Fourteenth Amendments still stand
That Congress is not supposed to make any law establishing religion,
and that all citizens under US jurisdiction are granted equal protection of the laws,
which includes not discriminating on the basis of religion or creed.

Why isn't this being followed? Because people and politicians are too busy pushing their
own creeds through govt, they are in no position to stop others from doing the same.

So it has been reduced to a game of bullying to decide whose beliefs are going to be declared law.
That is unconstitutional to abuse govt this way. But nobody can stop it if they are all doing the same thing:
Paid to lobby to violate each other's rights, beliefs and equal protections, abusing party and govt to do this.
 
The rules of legislative interpretation are quite clear. The court need not go into the legislative history when the words themselves are clear and unambiguous.

Those four words could not be any more clear.

The disturbing thing about this "controversy" as it currently exists is that there are tens of millions of people around this country - people who apparently were in the toilet during all of their High School civics classes - who believe that if the USSC rules against O'BamaCare they will be engaging in evil "judicial activism."

It's fucking pathetic.



So true.

The only question that should be on the minds of the Justices is the one of separation of powers.

yes. and congress passed a law which has a presumption of constitutionality.

so i'm not quite sure how you think striking down, in uber activist fashion, what is clearly constitutional goes to the issue of "separation of powers".
 
ya... PC knows what the high court is disagreeing about. but she has the answers. lol...

I guess in a simplistic world

but the whole drama queen thing about "America... hanging by four words" is really funny.

Dear jillian she might have gotten it from this article about the EIGHT key words:

Supreme Court Obamacare challenge takes shape finally - Yahoo News

After 80 minutes of arguments on Wednesday, the latest Supreme Court battle over Obamacare has apparently come down to two Justices, the literal meaning of eight words and a direct constitutional question.

Attorney Michael Carvin argued for the plaintiffs, who believe that Section 36B of the Affordable Care Act literally says that federal tax-credit subsidies for health insurance can only be offered on an “Exchange established by the State under section 1311” of the act.

I am more concerned about the first 10 words in the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

For Obama to declare the ACA and "right to health care" as the law of the land
is establishing a nationalized belief, and requiring all citizens to pay for it, regardless of their beliefs to the contrary.

I find this to be a dangerous precedent.
Political beliefs need to be addressed as a Constitutional issue to stop political discrimination by creed.
 
RBG may have hit the nail on the head when she raised the issue of standing. none of the plaintiffs are affected in the least by the ACA.

jillian all taxpayers have standing

the legal system is part of the problem that abridges the right to petition for redress of grievances, equal due process,
and equal representation and protection of beliefs, creeds and interest.

Notice that the Clintons and Obamas are all lawyers. And look how carefully they are able to cover their tracks because they know the limits of the law. What interest do they have in changing what benefits them politically?

Vern Wuensche is the only candidate for office who has challenged the legal profession and system as having a conflict of interest with government, and monopolizing influence in all three branches of govt.
That's because Vern Wuensche is not a lawyer.

If you use the legal system to determine whose beliefs are going to included or excluded by law, that is also a political conflict of interest. That's how all the corporate interests enjoy greater control gaming the system because they have power and resources to sue where individuals don't.

That's a whole other issue that many groups have rallied to take on: judicial and legal abuse and conflicts of interest.
The trouble is the court system and getting legal help is all under that system, controlled by judges and lawyers.
So it is incestuous at best. Good luck with that!

I gave up long ago and realized the people have to resolve our conflicts directly and form our own consensus on laws
if we are going to get the Courts and Govt to establish the real will and consent of the people.
 
ya... PC knows what the high court is disagreeing about. but she has the answers. lol...

I guess in a simplistic world

but the whole drama queen thing about "America... hanging by four words" is really funny.




Well, then....we agree that I understand the law....and possibly law in general,....better than you do.
 
The law was never intended to create a situation where some Americans got the subsidies and some didn't, all else being equal.



Sorry, Liar.....no changing the subject.

Here's what was intended: exchanges "established by the state."

That's the fact.
 
The rules of legislative interpretation are quite clear. The court need not go into the legislative history when the words themselves are clear and unambiguous.

Those four words could not be any more clear.

The disturbing thing about this "controversy" as it currently exists is that there are tens of millions of people around this country - people who apparently were in the toilet during all of their High School civics classes - who believe that if the USSC rules against O'BamaCare they will be engaging in evil "judicial activism."

It's fucking pathetic.

Kennedy Offers An Escape Hatch For Government In Obamacare Case - Forbes

"Under the canon of statutory interpretation known as constitutional avoidance, if judges have a choice between a constitutional and unconstitutional reading of an ambiguous statute, they must choose the constitutional one."



No one is claiming that the Supreme Court will decide correctly.

That's why I explained the situation to you.
 
The rules of legislative interpretation are quite clear. The court need not go into the legislative history when the words themselves are clear and unambiguous.

Those four words could not be any more clear.

The disturbing thing about this "controversy" as it currently exists is that there are tens of millions of people around this country - people who apparently were in the toilet during all of their High School civics classes - who believe that if the USSC rules against O'BamaCare they will be engaging in evil "judicial activism."

It's fucking pathetic.

Kennedy Offers An Escape Hatch For Government In Obamacare Case - Forbes

"Under the canon of statutory interpretation known as constitutional avoidance, if judges have a choice between a constitutional and unconstitutional reading of an ambiguous statute, they must choose the constitutional one."




"ambiguous statute"

Nothing ambiguous here.

Get a dictionary.
 
ya... PC knows what the high court is disagreeing about. but she has the answers. lol...

I guess in a simplistic world

but the whole drama queen thing about "America... hanging by four words" is really funny.

Dear jillian


this article about the EIGHT key words:

Supreme Court Obamacare challenge takes shape finally - Yahoo News

After 80 minutes of arguments on Wednesday, the latest Supreme Court battle over Obamacare has apparently come down to two Justices, the literal meaning of eight words and a direct constitutional question.

Attorney Michael Carvin argued for the plaintiffs, who believe that Section 36B of the Affordable Care Act literally says that federal tax-credit subsidies for health insurance can only be offered on an “Exchange established by the State under section 1311” of the act.

I am more concerned about the first 10 words in the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

For Obama to declare the ACA and "right to health care" as the law of the land
is establishing a nationalized belief, and requiring all citizens to pay for it, regardless of their beliefs to the contrary.

I find this to be a dangerous precedent.
Political beliefs need to be addressed as a Constitutional issue to stop political discrimination by creed.



"she might have gotten it from ..."

You can read, can't you?

Don't guess....

I stated where I got the quotes in the OP, from.
 

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