Rikurzhen
Gold Member
- Jul 24, 2014
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- #21
I didn't say anyone was forcing them.
I just wanted to be sure that you, or others who may be following along, didn't presume men were spiking drinks.
I said that alcohol and drugs loosen inhibitions and that is the biggest reason why college aged women are doing some of these things.
We're in agreement.
But yes, you have a point that it's more acceptable in society to be a drunk and easy, but I'm sure that people have always had premarital sex.
It's more acceptable because liberals have transformed the culture so that the libertine ideals are no longer scorned. They had a vision of how society and sexual relations SHOULD BE, unfortunately human sexual behavioral natures didn't get the memo. Free, cheap, easy sex is far more difficult for women to live with than it is for men. Think about who the enforcers of the chaste moral code were back in the day? IT was women who shunned the sluts in their midst for the sluts were rightly seen as a threat to female control of sexuality. If too many women were easily available to men, then a woman no longer had as much control in the timing of the sexual evolution occurring in their relationships.
Women seem to want that control back but they don't want to police themselves and so instead they're trying to criminalize men after the fact, after a sexual encounter which doesn't playout or develop along their expectations. This is what happens when society trusts liberals and feminists who claim that jumping off the cliff will result in a soft landing because humans can fly. Oops, humans can't fly and those liberal and feminist promises of a better way were just hollow promises.
You are comparing one extreme to another though. There is a "middle ground" in there between virginal and whorish.
The problem is that a middle ground is unstable - there are no mechanisms to keep the cultural practices from going to the lowest common denominator. That's PRECISELY how we got here today.
The old system of dates and going steady suited women's desires quite well. Group dates, friends with benefits, and the hook-up scene don't, they actually suit male interests better. More sex, less commitment, less ego threat. The problem is that the payoffs and harms from both models aren't equally proportional. Men dealt better with the frustration of the older system than women deal with the consequences of the present system.
Okay, so what is your suggestion?
In all aspects of life, it's takes effort to maintain order. Want an efficient kitchen? Keep it clean and put everything in it's place. Want a beautiful yard? Maintain it and fight the weeds, and plant the gardens. Want a healthy personal relationship? Invest effort into paying attention to your spouse. Want a good career? Invest effort in training, in performance.
Going with the flow, going with satisfying immediate desires at the lowest possible effort/cost is going to erode order. Taking your spouse for granted because it's too much effort to think about their satisfaction will get you an immediate benefit but it will come at the expense of a deteriorating marriage.
Look up thread to the first picture. The Noble Maidens being escorted by their handsome dates. That's a courtship ritual of sorts. It's very stylized and symbolic, but it represents effort with no immediate reward. What's happening there is the maintenance of one brick in the foundation of sexual relations within a culture. When you have a whole lot of bricks like this, then you are expending effort at maintaining a system and that system delivers better results for society.
Men having ready access to sex without needing to make a lot of effort is freaking terrific for men but a disaster for society. A conservative world view is shaped by sticking with behaviors, institutions, culture which works. A liberal worldview is informed by overthrowing what works for the promise of a more immediately satisfying alternative. The trouble with liberalism is that it is built on a promise of a better tomorrow and it can't guarantee that the promise will be fulfilled. That's the failure of the sexual revolution. Female nature isn't playing along. The fabric of society can't resist ripping as it tries to contain essential functions while simultaneously allowing people to seek immediate gratification with the lowest cost.
The Rube Goldberg fixes liberalism tries to implement in order to address the unintended consequences never replicate the efficiency of what was overthrown. The campus rape legislation seeks to restore female power to the sex question but rather than resorting to the old ways of women keeping each other in line, it now criminalizes men after the fact. Look at weddings. Back before the sexual revolution, the simple act of getting married transformed a boy into a man and a girl into a woman. That hugely significant life transition has now been erased. Now a marriage is simply a part of spectrum of relationships, yet women still seek social significance to the transition in their life so now getting married has been replaced with the wedding ceremony as the cultural signifier. The ceremony, for many women, becomes the event, not the actual transition from being single to being paired for life with your spouse.
There's no denying that a more liberal attitude towards sexuality and marriage is a more gratifying experience than the older ways of courting and investment before sex, but the present ways are causing a lot more personal damage to both women and society, and men too in different ways.