CDZ America/China conflict

[Indofred]

US Navy official to visit amid tension next week

In the wake of a United States warship illegally entering waters near a Chinese island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Harry Harris, will visit Beijing next week, a source who requested anonymity told China Daily on Wednesday.

Beijing continued to condemn the US action on the second day, as Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang called the incident "a serious political provocation against China".

I believe America is at fault in this case because:

China is close by these islands, but America is half a world away
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters.
Whilst China's claim is under debate, it's absolutely nothing to do with America, just local governments.

 

[Unkotare]

Dude - it's the CDZ - no insults or flaming!

This edit was made by your friendly mod squad.

 

[Unkotare]

...
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters......

Chinese navy ships entered U.S. waters off Alaska - CNNPolitics.com

 

[Skylar]

US Navy official to visit amid tension next week

In the wake of a United States warship illegally entering waters near a Chinese island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Harry Harris, will visit Beijing next week, a source who requested anonymity told China Daily on Wednesday.

Beijing continued to condemn the US action on the second day, as Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang called the incident "a serious political provocation against China".

I believe America is at fault in this case because:

China is close by these islands, but America is half a world away
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters.
Whilst China's claim is under debate, it's absolutely nothing to do with America, just local governments.

Its illegal according to who? Its a chinese island according to who?

 

[Fishlore]

US Navy official to visit amid tension next week

In the wake of a United States warship illegally entering waters near a Chinese island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Harry Harris, will visit Beijing next week, a source who requested anonymity told China Daily on Wednesday.

Beijing continued to condemn the US action on the second day, as Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang called the incident "a serious political provocation against China".

I believe America is at fault in this case because:

China is close by these islands, but America is half a world away
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters.
Whilst China's claim is under debate, it's absolutely nothing to do with America, just local governments.

America is in one of those self-righteous, bellicose moods that have struck like a relapsing fever since Vietnam. Uncle Sam seems to think God has made him Nanny to the world. Of course, the Evil Enemy is very good for the military industrial complex and the surveillance state.

We were in real danger of having peace break out after World War II. Fortunately, we made a good deal with the USSR to scare the bejesus out of each other's citizens to prop up our staggering regimes and fatten up the military. Korea was a costly bungle, largely because MacArthur's antique megalomania couldn't believe that the rise of China was very real. We may be about to stick our fingers in that same fan belt again soon.

 

[oldsoul]

Gotta wonder how the Bush-Bashers are taking this, being that it's Obama in charge now...

Will they come out to publicly denounce the Obama Military, or will they make excuses for him, like, "he can't control everything the military does."

Just wondering....

 

[oldsoul]

US Navy official to visit amid tension next week

In the wake of a United States warship illegally entering waters near a Chinese island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Harry Harris, will visit Beijing next week, a source who requested anonymity told China Daily on Wednesday.

Beijing continued to condemn the US action on the second day, as Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang called the incident "a serious political provocation against China".

I believe America is at fault in this case because:...

...because you're an America-hating little gnat.

Not nessisarily accurate. While I can see where you are coming from here, I think it's more a case of mis/un informed.

 

[oldsoul]

US Navy official to visit amid tension next week

In the wake of a United States warship illegally entering waters near a Chinese island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Harry Harris, will visit Beijing next week, a source who requested anonymity told China Daily on Wednesday.

Beijing continued to condemn the US action on the second day, as Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang called the incident "a serious political provocation against China".

I believe America is at fault in this case because:

China is close by these islands, but America is half a world away
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters.
Whilst China's claim is under debate, it's absolutely nothing to do with America, just local governments.

Just a thought here...
If not the US, then who will stand up to defend those unable to defend themselves? Maybe France will step forward, or Greece? Oh, oh, I know let's get the UAE to stand up for those being bullied. Yeah, that'll be great!!

 

[Skylar]

US Navy official to visit amid tension next week

In the wake of a United States warship illegally entering waters near a Chinese island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Harry Harris, will visit Beijing next week, a source who requested anonymity told China Daily on Wednesday.

Beijing continued to condemn the US action on the second day, as Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang called the incident "a serious political provocation against China".

I believe America is at fault in this case because:

China is close by these islands, but America is half a world away
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters.
Whilst China's claim is under debate, it's absolutely nothing to do with America, just local governments.

America is in one of those self-righteous, bellicose moods that have struck like a relapsing fever since Vietnam. Uncle Sam seems to think God has made him Nanny to the world. Of course, the Evil Enemy is very good for the military industrial complex and the surveillance state.

And in this case, China is the 800 lb gorilla in the south China sea attempting to use its military might to bully a much smaller nation. Several, actually. And its China that is refusing to abide the very international maritime agreements it has signed onto.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration, based in The Hague, rejected China's argument that the dispute was about sovereignty - and so beyond its remit.

It will now begin hearings on the case's merits, under a UN Convention.

China's claims in the South China Sea are contested by its Asian neighbours.

The Philippines has had diplomatic spats with China over the Scarborough Shoal and Spratlys in particular, rejecting its claims to those areas.

It says China's "nine-dash line", which China uses to demarcate its territorial claims, is unlawful under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which both countries have signed.

South China Sea: Hague panel can rule on Philippines-China dispute - BBC News

With China insisting that the UN's court has no authority to arbitrate a UN Convention. And boycotting the proceedings.

 

[Fishlore]

Perhaps we are going to repeat the Taiwan Straight Crisis over the islands of Quemoy and Matsu back in 1955. Thing are a bit different these days. For one thing, China has a truly impressive military backed by what is now the world's largest economy. They are going to see their presence in the South China Sea much as the USA used to see its presence in the Caribbean Sea. National pride is good politics and sending the fleet out to show the flag is good for local industry.

America, on the on the other hand, is broke (owes China billions) deeply divided internally and with plenty of troubles on its plate from a generation-long cluster fuck in the Middle East. China has picked a very shrewd moment to throw a little gorilla dust. Will Uncle Sam be stupid enough to fall into this trap? I'm not optimistic.

 

[Indofred]

...
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters......

Chinese navy ships entered U.S. waters off Alaska - CNNPolitics.com

The Chinese ships were doing operations "consistent with international law," U.S. officials said, under the maritime rule of "innocent passage," where ships are permitted to enter territorial waters and are not challenged so long as they keep moving directly and expeditiously.

As opposed to America flexing its muscles in the SOUTH CHINA SEA.

 

[Indofred]

Its illegal according to who? Its a chinese island according to who?

Excellent question.
The Germans in 1883
The French in 1887

Both agreed the islands belonged to China and save a few Europeans invasion forces doing their usual invading and occupying, no one bothered until oil and gas turned up.
Then the US of A stuck its nose in.

 

[Indofred]

Just a thought here...
If not the US, then who will stand up to defend those unable to defend themselves?

Excellent question.
We'd better look at who claims the islands.

Vietnam, Americas evil enemy/strategic partner in the region claims the islands.
The country that killed thousands of Americans when they invaded Vietnam, is America's new 'bestie' in the area and the daft Yank government has totally forgotten how Vietnam is evil and kicked their arses out of the country. Talk about a kick in the teeth for US vets who fought, died and lost limbs for America, but are now given a fuck off tablet because America wants the oil.

Does the US need to defend a nation that kicked you out of their country, making you look like bloody idiots on the international stage?

Philippines - OK, they're close to there than they are to China, but still well outside territorial waters, and they made no claim for many years, probably because they were an American colony, and America wasn't interested because they didn't know about the oil back then.

Does the US need to defend a nation that they occupied for so many years, or do they need protecting from their old colonial masters?

We can't forget Taiwan, the Chinese island occupied by a previous Chinese government, and run as a US sponsored dictatorship for over 40 years.
This Chinese island also claims the area, but as it's part of China anyway, the claims are valid only if they accept rule from the legitimate government of the peoples' republic of China.

 

[Unkotare]

The real motivation of those for whom the US is always 'wrong,' and any other party-no matter what-is right is all too obvious.

 

[frigidweirdo]

US Navy official to visit amid tension next week

In the wake of a United States warship illegally entering waters near a Chinese island in the South China Sea on Tuesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Harry Harris, will visit Beijing next week, a source who requested anonymity told China Daily on Wednesday.

Beijing continued to condemn the US action on the second day, as Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang called the incident "a serious political provocation against China".

I believe America is at fault in this case because:

China is close by these islands, but America is half a world away
China does not send armed ships into US claimed waters.
Whilst China's claim is under debate, it's absolutely nothing to do with America, just local governments.

There problem here is there is something called international law, and this states where ships can and cannot go.
There is also international recognition of where a country's limits are.

China is taking the piss, literally building islands in the sea, annoying its neighbors in the process. Then it gets all arrogant and pretends to be annoyed because someone comes close to these islands which are not internationally recognized as being a part of China.

The worst case are the DiaoYu Islands, or Senkako Islands.

China claims them. Japan has them. Japan has had them since 1895 when they were incorporated into Okinawa (or 1879 when they first took them officially)

China says Japan needs to "give them back" to China (who have never had them) because in a treaty they signed the Potsdam Declaration which said ""Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshū, Hokkaidō, Kyūshū, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine""

This refers back to the Cairo Declaration of 1943 which says Japan needs to give back all it took from 1914 onwards. China conveniently ignores this bit.

Why did I bring up the Diaoyu Islands/Senkaku Islands? Well, it shows China's willingness to simply try and take things it finds convenient, also to use such things for nationalist propaganda at home.

China telling the US to "fuck off" is very good for them. Angry young people can't protest the govt, so the govt gives them things they can protest and get angry about. It builds up their nationalism.
Then they go have talks with Japan to calm things down a bit, just so they can heighten tensions again at a later point to keep the people happy.