China accuses US of 'stirring up' South China Sea tensions

[peacefan]

China accuses US of 'stirring up' South China Sea tensions

China said the US was responsible for "deliberate stirring up" of tensions in the South China Sea, after US warship navigated through waters claimed by Beijing. "On Dec 4, littoral combat ship USS Gabrielle Giffords illegally entered the waters adjacent to Ren'ai Reef in the Nansha region of China without the approval of the Chinese government," Southern Theatre Command spokesman Tian Junli said. China's military on Monday "followed the entire operation", said Tian, adding that "deliberate stirring up of the South China Sea by US is a serious infringement of China's sovereignty and security".

Remote : 2023-12-04T09:06:52+05:30
Local : 2023-12-04(Monday) 04 : 36 : 52
Found via NicerApp WebOS

international waters can NOT be colonized and then CLAIMED by ANY government, if you ask me.
what do you all think of this?

 

[frigidweirdo]

China accuses US of 'stirring up' South China Sea tensions

China said the US was responsible for "deliberate stirring up" of tensions in the South China Sea, after US warship navigated through waters claimed by Beijing. "On Dec 4, littoral combat ship USS Gabrielle Giffords illegally entered the waters adjacent to Ren'ai Reef in the Nansha region of China without the approval of the Chinese government," Southern Theatre Command spokesman Tian Junli said. China's military on Monday "followed the entire operation", said Tian, adding that "deliberate stirring up of the South China Sea by US is a serious infringement of China's sovereignty and security".

Remote : 2023-12-04T09:06:52+05:30
Local : 2023-12-04(Monday) 04 : 36 : 52
Found via NicerApp WebOS

international waters can NOT be colonized and then CLAIMED by ANY government, if you ask me.
what do you all think of this?

China will say ANYTHING to anyone to get what they want.

China has sent loads of ships to a disputed island between them and the Philippines, yeah, this has NOTHING TO DO with the tensions. It's all the US sending ships into INTERNATIONAL WATERS that's the problem....

This is a country who claim their ideals include "democracy" and "freedom"... who's not laughing at this?

 

[shockedcanadian]

A terrorist group admitted to attacking the vessels and they warned Israel and its allies to not travel/trade in this sea or they will be attacked. It appears China is reaching here, they know who is responsible for this. Hell the drones may have even have been made in China.

 

[JoeB131]

international waters can NOT be colonized and then CLAIMED by ANY government, if you ask me.
what do you all think of this?

I think we need to stop intentionally provoking China over issues of her national sovereignty. They tend to get a little touchy about that.

This is the biggest mistake we make in dealing with China. China underwent what they call "The Century of Humiliation", which started when the British launched the First Opium War and ended with the establishment of the People's Republic. We see Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan, the Uighurs, and the South China Sea in terms of "freedom," "Democracy," and "international law"; they see it as their territorial sovereignty being violated.

China will say ANYTHING to anyone to get what they want.

China has sent loads of ships to a disputed island between them and the Philippines, yeah, this has NOTHING TO DO with the tensions. It's all the US sending ships into INTERNATIONAL WATERS that's the problem....

This is a country who claim their ideals include "democracy" and "freedom"... who's not laughing at this?

I'm not.

First, the US pulls the same shit with all these little Islands in the Pacific we claim.

Secondly, we have a bad habit of still thinking of the Philippines as a "colony", which they are not.

Third, China has the resources to exploit the mineral and fishing rights of the region. The Philippines and Vietnam do not.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I think we need to stop intentionally provoking China over issues of her national sovereignty. They tend to get a little touchy about that.

This is the biggest mistake we make in dealing with China. China underwent what they call "The Century of Humiliation", which started when the British launched the First Opium War and ended with the establishment of the People's Republic. We see Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan, the Uighurs, and the South China Sea in terms of "freedom," "Democracy," and "international law"; they see it as their territorial sovereignty being violated.





I'm not.

First, the US pulls the same shit with all these little Islands in the Pacific we claim.

View attachment 867756

Secondly, we have a bad habit of still thinking of the Philippines as a "colony", which they are not.

Third, China has the resources to exploit the mineral and fishing rights of the region. The Philippines and Vietnam do not.

Well, the Chinese will take EVERYTHING as their own sovereignty if they could.

The Chinese are doing the provoking in the main, especially with its neighbors, and then pretending that these countries are provoking because they're not doing what China wants.

In other words "Do what we want, or you're provoking war with us", most would see this as a threat.

There's a lot more to it that what happened in the past. Yes, the current chief wants to get everything under his control, without freedom, without foreign influence, but it's mostly about his place in history.

The Philippines has a pro-US anti-China president. Vietnam being Communist isn't China friendly. The only countries in the region that are friendly are Cambodia, Laos and North Korea.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, the Chinese will take EVERYTHING as their own sovereignty if they could.

Really? Um, let's compare how many places China has invaded since 1949 vs. how many the US has invaded.

China- Intervened in Korea when UN forces got too close to their border in 1950, had a territorial dispute with India in 1962, and invaded Vietnam for about three weeks in 1979 in retaliation for Vietnam invading Cambodia.

The US intervened in Korea in 1950, Lebanon in 1958, Vietnam in 1965, the Dominican Republic in 1965, invaded, bombed Cambodia and Laos in 1970, fought Libya in the 1980s, invaded Lebanon again in 1983, Invaded Grenada in 1983, Iraq in 1991 to liberate kuwait, well, I could go on and on.

Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seems to me that the US is more militarily aggressive than China is.

The Chinese are doing the provoking in the main, especially with its neighbors, and then pretending that these countries are provoking because they're not doing what China wants.

In other words "Do what we want, or you're provoking war with us", most would see this as a threat.

How is that any different than the way the US has acted in the Americas since the Monroe Doctrine was enacted?

There's a lot more to it that what happened in the past. Yes, the current chief wants to get everything under his control, without freedom, without foreign influence, but it's mostly about his place in history.

I'll agree that Xi is a problematic leader, but let's not make more of it than it is. The Chinese are not our enemy, and we'd be stupid to make them one. China has not invaded Taiwan (even though. legally, they'd be on pretty strong ground if they did) and they have allowed Hong Kong to maintain its own political system.

The Philippines has a pro-US anti-China president. Vietnam being Communist isn't China friendly. The only countries in the region that are friendly are Cambodia, Laos and North Korea.

The Philippines just elected the son of the bastard who put the country under Martial Law 50 years ago; it makes you wonder about their collective judgment.

Actually, Burma is pretty friendly to China as well, but they are undergoing a civil war where China might need to intervene.

 

[peacefan]

I'll agree that Xi is a problematic leader, but let's not make more of it than it is. The Chinese are not our enemy, and we'd be stupid to make them one. China has not invaded Taiwan (even though. legally, they'd be on pretty strong ground if they did) and they have allowed Hong Kong to maintain its own political system.

i hear you, but if we abandon the free people of Taiwan, it would be an utter pre-meditated betrayal on our part towards them, at the scale of the Ukraine conflict.
and if we abandon Taiwan, we lose the freedom of navigation thru the South Asian Sea. (i hate calling it the South China Sea, as that was just an overzealous claim by dictators ruling China hundreds of years ago, and something that has until recently stayed something of a joke).

 

[martybegan]

China will say ANYTHING to anyone to get what they want.

China has sent loads of ships to a disputed island between them and the Philippines, yeah, this has NOTHING TO DO with the tensions. It's all the US sending ships into INTERNATIONAL WATERS that's the problem....

This is a country who claim their ideals include "democracy" and "freedom"... who's not laughing at this?

It's also the Chinese problem with us backing up our traditional ally, The Philippines.

 

[peacefan]

It's also the Chinese problem with us backing up our traditional ally, The Philippines.

the Chinese aggressively disagree with anyone not yielding to whatever their Holy Party spits out as "the truth".
they got no right to dictate communism to be used outside their borders.

 

[JoeB131]

i hear you, but if we abandon the free people of Taiwan, it would be an utter pre-meditated betrayal on our part towards them, at the scale of the Ukraine conflict.

Except, no, not really.

The problem in Ukraine was that Ukraine itself didn't adhere to the Minsk Agreement, that would have allowed the Donbass to vote on whether it wanted to be part of Russia or Ukraine. Any settlement in the region is going to have to be negotiated, as neither side can win a military victory at this point.

Taiwan is a completely different animal. No one actually recognizes Taiwan as a government. Even the US follows what is called the "one China" policy, which recognizes Taiwan as part of China.

Now, that said, I don't think the Chinese are going to invade Taiwan. They don't need to, Taiwan is already on a demographic death spiral with low fertility rates.

and if we abandon Taiwan, we lose the freedom of navigation thru the South Asian Sea.

Why? China would have the most to lose if trade were cut off, they ship the most through it.

(i hate calling it the South China Sea, as that was just an overzealous claim by dictators ruling China hundreds of years ago, and something that has until recently stayed something of a joke).

Actually, the Portuguese named it the "South China Sea" about 500 years ago. the Chinese call it Nan Hai (or South Sea).

It's also the Chinese problem with us backing up our traditional ally, The Philippines.

These would be the Filipinos who threw us out of Clark AFB and Subic Bay naval Station. "Oh, please protect us now over these small, uninhabited islands we can't manage!"

 

[martybegan]

the Chinese aggressively disagree with anyone not yielding to whatever their Holy Party spits out as "the truth".
they got no right to dictate communism to be used outside their borders.

Except, no, not really.

The problem in Ukraine was that Ukraine itself didn't adhere to the Minsk Agreement, that would have allowed the Donbass to vote on whether it wanted to be part of Russia or Ukraine. Any settlement in the region is going to have to be negotiated, as neither side can win a military victory at this point.

Taiwan is a completely different animal. No one actually recognizes Taiwan as a government. Even the US follows what is called the "one China" policy, which recognizes Taiwan as part of China.

Now, that said, I don't think the Chinese are going to invade Taiwan. They don't need to, Taiwan is already on a demographic death spiral with low fertility rates.



Why? China would have the most to lose if trade were cut off, they ship the most through it.



Actually, the Portuguese named it the "South China Sea" about 500 years ago. the Chinese call it Nan Hai (or South Sea).


These would be the Filipinos who threw us out of Clark AFB and Subic Bay naval Station. "Oh, please protect us now over these small, uninhabited islands we can't manage!"

And the usual Chinese Dick sucker shows up.

 

[Blaster]

China accuses US of 'stirring up' South China Sea tensions

China said the US was responsible for "deliberate stirring up" of tensions in the South China Sea, after US warship navigated through waters claimed by Beijing. "On Dec 4, littoral combat ship USS Gabrielle Giffords illegally entered the waters adjacent to Ren'ai Reef in the Nansha region of China without the approval of the Chinese government," Southern Theatre Command spokesman Tian Junli said. China's military on Monday "followed the entire operation", said Tian, adding that "deliberate stirring up of the South China Sea by US is a serious infringement of China's sovereignty and security".

Remote : 2023-12-04T09:06:52+05:30
Local : 2023-12-04(Monday) 04 : 36 : 52
Found via NicerApp WebOS

international waters can NOT be colonized and then CLAIMED by ANY government, if you ask me.
what do you all think of this?

Fuck China.

 

[JoeB131]

And the usual Chinese Dick sucker shows up.

Fuck China.

When you two shitheads are ready to sign up and put on a uniform to die for some shit Islands in the South China Sea, then you can get back to me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Really? Um, let's compare how many places China has invaded since 1949 vs. how many the US has invaded.

China- Intervened in Korea when UN forces got too close to their border in 1950, had a territorial dispute with India in 1962, and invaded Vietnam for about three weeks in 1979 in retaliation for Vietnam invading Cambodia.

The US intervened in Korea in 1950, Lebanon in 1958, Vietnam in 1965, the Dominican Republic in 1965, invaded, bombed Cambodia and Laos in 1970, fought Libya in the 1980s, invaded Lebanon again in 1983, Invaded Grenada in 1983, Iraq in 1991 to liberate kuwait, well, I could go on and on.

Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seems to me that the US is more militarily aggressive than China is.



How is that any different than the way the US has acted in the Americas since the Monroe Doctrine was enacted?



I'll agree that Xi is a problematic leader, but let's not make more of it than it is. The Chinese are not our enemy, and we'd be stupid to make them one. China has not invaded Taiwan (even though. legally, they'd be on pretty strong ground if they did) and they have allowed Hong Kong to maintain its own political system.


The Philippines just elected the son of the bastard who put the country under Martial Law 50 years ago; it makes you wonder about their collective judgment.

Actually, Burma is pretty friendly to China as well, but they are undergoing a civil war where China might need to intervene.

So, your argument that the Chinese won't take everything, is that the US has invaded more countries because China has literally been a poor country for most of that time? Not a great argument, is it?

China also invaded the Paracel Islands during the Vietnam war (yeah, go support your Communist brothers by stealing their islands when they're at war).

China have decided that the Senkaku Islands are theirs when.... Mao even called them the Senkaku Islands (Japanese name) rather than the Diaoyu Islands because at the time China didn't care. Never mind that all their arguments are so dodgy.

Then there's the whole of the South China Seas, China's justification "we have a map that shows that a Chinese person once went to each of these places, so they're ours" "oh yeah? Where's the map?" "Oh, well, the guy who had the map threw it away, it doesn't matter though, the map used to exist, so they're ours"

India and a whole region of India that China has been fighting over. Troops have been killed as recently as a few years ago. Why? Well, China invaded Tibet and Tibet had claimed this region, but then made a deal with the British but the Chinese couldn't give a damn about it.

Oh, and Bhutan which China claims 1/3rd of the whole country.

But you're right, aside from all this land and sea claiming, there's nothing.

Yes, the US is more militarily aggressive than China, that does not mean that China isn't doing anything.

China is so the US's enemy. Nothing you can do about it. Why?

Xi needs enemies. He's running a dictatorship and he needs to keep his people happy with his rule. He's pumped up the rhetoric with Japan, people hate Japan more and more every year. Japan doesn't even need to do anything for it to be considered "evil".

Some young famous guy went to Japan on a trip, went to the infamous war shrine and was subsequently banned from being on TV or whatever it was he did. Apparently the Chinese people, who are kept ignorant of most things, are expected to know they can't go to this shrine.

Just like the US and USSR needed each other to have their scare tactics to keep their populations in check, China has the same need.

They haven't invaded Taiwan yet because they don't have the military strength to do so. Xi has been rebuilding the armed forces into a professional armed forces, rather than just a bunch of kids with guns. Hong Kong's political system is a total joke, always was, the only reason "democracy" is a thing is because the British gave it to them in the last 3 years of their rule.

Burma isn't very friendly right now. You should look up what's going on with the scammers, they all got arrested or killed, they all had "guanxi" with the Burmese govt. A warlord called Peng went to the Chinese and said "help me against the Myanmar govt and I'll stopped the scammers, so the Chinese went with the warlord over the military govt of Myanmar.

The Philippines is in a difficult position. It either goes with the US, who may or may not help them out with China, or it goes with China who'll fuck them over.

Look at Cambodia and Laos, big friends of China's, and China is damming the Mekong river and these countries are suffering big time because of it. If China weren't so powerful, it'd have ended up in war already. I can see both countries joining an anti-Chinese alliance in the future, once their dictators are dead and someone else takes over.

 

[JoeB131]

I am going to try to take this apart, a bit, although it's bordering on hysteria. Full disclosure, my wife is from China and I get to watch a LOT of Chinese media. They aren't the bogeyman you make them out to be.

So, your argument that the Chinese won't take everything, is that the US has invaded more countries because China has literally been a poor country for most of that time? Not a great argument, is it?

No, my argument is that China doesn't have a history of aggression compared to other countries, and frankly, they show a lot more restraint. You don't see China invading a country on the other side of the world because they MIGHT have weapons they don't like.

China also invaded the Paracel Islands during the Vietnam war (yeah, go support your Communist brothers by stealing their islands when they're at war).

Who said they were brothers? Vietnam and China split well before the war was over, you can thank Nixon for that one. I just can't get worked up about Islands that have a total of 7.5 Square Kilometers!

India and a whole region of India that China has been fighting over. Troops have been killed as recently as a few years ago. Why? Well, China invaded Tibet and Tibet had claimed this region, but then made a deal with the British but the Chinese couldn't give a damn about it.

Except when that happened, the governments of India and China very quickly de-escalated the situation.

Burma isn't very friendly right now. You should look up what's going on with the scammers, they all got arrested or killed, they all had "guanxi" with the Burmese govt. A warlord called Peng went to the Chinese and said "help me against the Myanmar govt and I'll stopped the scammers, so the Chinese went with the warlord over the military govt of Myanmar.

I think you are a little confused. The Burmese scammers have kidnapped Chinese citizens to work for them, and Burma has lost control of border areas China sees as critical to trade. They've probably figured out the Junta in Burma isn't long for this world, and want to make nice with whatever happens next.

The Philippines is in a difficult position. It either goes with the US, who may or may not help them out with China, or it goes with China who'll fuck them over.

Again, we are talking about a bunch of little islands that have no one living on them. It's not like the Philippines are short on Islands or anything.

Look at Cambodia and Laos, big friends of China's, and China is damming the Mekong river and these countries are suffering big time because of it. If China weren't so powerful, it'd have ended up in war already. I can see both countries joining an anti-Chinese alliance in the future, once their dictators are dead and someone else takes over.

Well, you can always hope.

The reality is, China is investing heavily in these countries through the Belt and Road initiative. Thailand as well.

Xi needs enemies. He's running a dictatorship and he needs to keep his people happy with his rule. He's pumped up the rhetoric with Japan, people hate Japan more and more every year. Japan doesn't even need to do anything for it to be considered "evil".

Some young famous guy went to Japan on a trip, went to the infamous war shrine and was subsequently banned from being on TV or whatever it was he did. Apparently the Chinese people, who are kept ignorant of most things, are expected to know they can't go to this shrine.

China's hate for Japan has little to do with Xi. It has more to do with the fact that Japan killed 20-30 million people during World War II and has yet to give a decent apology for it. Most Chinese know the Yasikuni Shrine exists and it's a point of contention not only with China but Korea as well.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I am going to try to take this apart, a bit, although it's bordering on hysteria. Full disclosure, my wife is from China and I get to watch a LOT of Chinese media. They aren't the bogeyman you make them out to be.



No, my argument is that China doesn't have a history of aggression compared to other countries, and frankly, they show a lot more restraint. You don't see China invading a country on the other side of the world because they MIGHT have weapons they don't like.



Who said they were brothers? Vietnam and China split well before the war was over, you can thank Nixon for that one. I just can't get worked up about Islands that have a total of 7.5 Square Kilometers!



Except when that happened, the governments of India and China very quickly de-escalated the situation.



I think you are a little confused. The Burmese scammers have kidnapped Chinese citizens to work for them, and Burma has lost control of border areas China sees as critical to trade. They've probably figured out the Junta in Burma isn't long for this world, and want to make nice with whatever happens next.



Again, we are talking about a bunch of little islands that have no one living on them. It's not like the Philippines are short on Islands or anything.



Well, you can always hope.

The reality is, China is investing heavily in these countries through the Belt and Road initiative. Thailand as well.



China's hate for Japan has little to do with Xi. It has more to do with the fact that Japan killed 20-30 million people during World War II and has yet to give a decent apology for it. Most Chinese know the Yasikuni Shrine exists and it's a point of contention not only with China but Korea as well.

Depends what you mean by "bogeyman", I'd say Russia, the US and China are "bogeymen"

China has a history of aggression. Again, the difference being that in the last 100 years or more China has been too poor to do much. They invaded Tibet, they attacked Vietnam (and lost), they've had all kinds of small conflicts all over the place. But they can't afford to get into wars. The US went to war to make money, China would lose money from fighting, so they don't. Simple as.

The point being that North Vietnam and China were both "Communist". You can't get worked up about islands, but other people can. The Chinese want them, Vietnam want them, China INVADED those islands and took them.

The thing was with India, they deescalated, but what brought the problem up in the first place. This is what China does. They push, prod, poke continually, and then when it goes over the edge, they pull back.

They create "new norms", they push and then make that pushing the "new norm", then they pull back a bit, then push again, creating a different and advanced "new norm", again and again and again until they're in a position to justify what what they want.

I'm not confused about what's happening in Burma.

The Chinese mafia's downfall in a lawless casino town

For years the "four families" ruled a town notorious for scam centres in Myanmar - their end was swift.

www.bbc.com

Look at picture 3, the woman with the military junta guy. She's one of the Chinese mafia that got arrested. Read this, it's a good article, explains it quite well.

Well, the US aren't short on mountains, so let's let Russia invade Alaska, not like there are many people there anyway, just a lot of snow....

The problem with these islands is what's UNDERNEATH them. It's all about getting islands and seeing if they had a shed load of oil. Look at the Falklands, the UK sent a military force to take back some shitty islands in the middle of nowhere with no value whatsoever. Why? Oil. Except they found out it's too expensive to bother.

Yes, China is investing in countries, paying bribes, and who's suffering? The people. So the current dictators are happy, but at some point it's going to be different, because they're not going to have an important river.


Yes, I know why China hates Japan. But the Chinese people actually like Japan and Korea for their culture and who they are as modern countries. Does the UK hate Germany? No. Germany killed loads. Xi has been pumping up the rhetoric when he needs it, trying to vilify modern Japan. Kindergartens have books that show the evil Japanese killing Chinese people.... they're using schools to teach hatred.

 

[JoeB131]

Depends what you mean by "bogeyman", I'd say Russia, the US and China are "bogeymen"

China has a history of aggression. Again, the difference being that in the last 100 years or more China has been too poor to do much. They invaded Tibet, they attacked Vietnam (and lost), they've had all kinds of small conflicts all over the place. But they can't afford to get into wars. The US went to war to make money, China would lose money from fighting, so they don't. Simple as.

Again, what "History"? Only three military actions since 1949, two of which were justified.

They didn't "invade" Tibet; they reasserted their authority over what the international community recognized as part of China. They just deposed a rather nasty theocracy that abused the crap out of the Peasants. But Richard Gere goes around with a gerbil up his ass with the Dalai Lama and say, "Oooh, poor Tibet." Noboy in Tibet really wants the Lamas back in charge.



They attacked Vietnam for three weeks to make a point. We invaded Vietnam for 8 years, inflicted untold misery on the country, are still weepy about it.

The point being that North Vietnam and China were both "Communist". You can't get worked up about islands, but other people can. The Chinese want them, Vietnam want them, China INVADED those islands and took them.

And so? China had the ability to enforce her claim... Vietnam did not.

The thing was with India, they deescalated, but what brought the problem up in the first place. This is what China does. They push, prod, poke continually, and then when it goes over the edge, they pull back.

They create "new norms", they push and then make that pushing the "new norm", then they pull back a bit, then push again, creating a different and advanced "new norm", again and again and again until they're in a position to justify what what they want.

Why you are right. IN 10,000 years, they might take over the world at that rate!

The reality is, India is currently run by a Trump-esque Hindu bigot who is looking for trouble, that's why you had a border conflict.

The problem with these islands is what's UNDERNEATH them. It's all about getting islands and seeing if they had a shed load of oil. Look at the Falklands, the UK sent a military force to take back some shitty islands in the middle of nowhere with no value whatsoever. Why? Oil. Except they found out it's too expensive to bother.

You are using the Falklands Wars as an example. That war was stupid, and Thatcher and Galtiri both should have been tried as war Criminals.

Yes, China is investing in countries, paying bribes, and who's suffering? The people. So the current dictators are happy, but at some point it's going to be different, because they're not going to have an important river.

Seems to me the people are benefiting from improved infrastructure. "I'm going to come in and build a road" seems like a much better policy than "I'm going to invade you over weapons that don't exist and then totally fuck up the occupation, leaving you at the mercy of crazy militias."

Yes, I know why China hates Japan. But the Chinese people actually like Japan and Korea for their culture and who they are as modern countries. Does the UK hate Germany? No. Germany killed loads. Xi has been pumping up the rhetoric when he needs it, trying to vilify modern Japan. Kindergartens have books that show the evil Japanese killing Chinese people.... they're using schools to teach hatred.

Again, you don't know Chinese people very well. The Chinese still hate Japan for what they did in WWII. They don't need Xi to tell them that. I know we don't hear much about it like we do about the Nazis in this country because the Chinese don't control Hollywood.

In fact, the only movie I've seen about Japanese atrocities in China made by Hollywood was a film about the Rape of Nanking, where it was focused on how the white people in Nanking had a sad.

 

[peacefan]

Again, what "History"? Only three military actions since 1949, two of which were justified.

They didn't "invade" Tibet; they reasserted their authority over what the international community recognized as part of China. They just deposed a rather nasty theocracy that abused the crap out of the Peasants. But Richard Gere goes around with a gerbil up his ass with the Dalai Lama and say, "Oooh, poor Tibet." Noboy in Tibet really wants the Lamas back in charge.

the international community never felt like shedding blood and treasure over Tibet, so they let China do what they wanted with it.
a violent take-over and subsequent repression of an ancient religion, which no doubt has had it's good sides as well (measured from both sides).
ALL religions (and forms of government) have had bad and good sides; at least; all known major and national ones.

They attacked Vietnam for three weeks to make a point. We invaded Vietnam for 8 years, inflicted untold misery on the country, are still weepy about it.

Maybe the Vietnamese had a reason to fight us so staunchly, and yield to the Chinese rather quickly.
population size of the Chinese, and supply line lengths, no doubt had something to do with that.

Seems to me the people are benefiting from improved infrastructure. "I'm going to come in and build a road" seems like a much better policy than "I'm going to invade you over weapons that don't exist and then totally fuck up the occupation, leaving you at the mercy of crazy militias."

from reports, those roads (to nowhere) and railroads and airports (which hardly see any traffic after they're finished), are used to endebt countries into subservience to the CCP, and their "anti-crime" facial recognition camera projects.

the Chinese Communist Party does a bunch of other things which raise my eyebrows just about every time they're mentioned to me;

• social credit programs
• severe indoctrination of the youth (note : i vote against LGBTQ+ indoctrination of young youths just the same)
• no tolerance of free speech that includes public criticism of the CCP
• stealing of intellectual property
• starting armsraces (over Taiwan and the South China Sea to be exact)
• no compliance to the green new deal whatsoever (2 new coal plants get fired up every year in China).

One moment, please...

energyandcleanair.org

Coal power continues to expand in China, despite the government’s pledges and goals. In the first half of 2023, construction was started on 37 gigawatts (GW) of new coal power capacity, 52 GW was permitted, while 41 GW of new projects were announced and 8 GW of previously shelved projects were revived. Of the permitted projects, 10 GW of capacity has already moved to construction.

Permitting continued apace in the second quarter and in some provinces, newly permitted power plants are moving rapidly into construction, while in others, developers might be securing permits “just in case” and not hurrying to break ground. Of plants permitted in 2022, about half (52 GW) had started construction by summer 2023.

After the permitting spree of the past year, China now has 243 GW of coal-fired capacity currently permitted and under construction.

........

 

[peacefan]

Except, no, not really.

The problem in Ukraine was that Ukraine itself didn't adhere to the Minsk Agreement, that would have allowed the Donbass to vote on whether it wanted to be part of Russia or Ukraine. Any settlement in the region is going to have to be negotiated, as neither side can win a military victory at this point.

Taiwan is a completely different animal. No one actually recognizes Taiwan as a government. Even the US follows what is called the "one China" policy, which recognizes Taiwan as part of China.

Now, that said, I don't think the Chinese are going to invade Taiwan. They don't need to, Taiwan is already on a demographic death spiral with low fertility rates.

then why the testy attitudes by the Chinese over the Taiwanese contacts with their western allies?
why all the violations of Taiwanese airspace?
why build up a gigantic sea fleet? just in case they "need" to invade anyway?
what are YOU gonna say then? "sorry, oops, hey, i'm married to a Chinese woman you know, and please don't blame her."??

Why? China would have the most to lose if trade were cut off, they ship the most through it.

China wants to CONTROL the taxation and shipping permissions in the SCS dude, as well as steal the oil "rights" for the entire SCS and seas surrounding Taiwan.
get your head out of your bedroom.

 

[JoeB131]

the international community never felt like shedding blood and treasure over Tibet, so they let China do what they wanted with it.
a violent take-over and subsequent repression of an ancient religion, which no doubt has had it's good sides as well (measured from both sides).
ALL religions (and forms of government) have had bad and good sides; at least; all known major and national ones.

Was it really violent, though? It was one battle with 5700 casualties on the Tibetan side before they folded like a cheap robe. The average Tibetan didn't care about the corrupt theocracy that enslaved them. Not enough to fight for them very hard.

(*- Correction: The initial invasion of Tibet had very few casualties. The uprising in Tibet in 1959 had about 89,000 casualties on the Tibetan side, which is bad. In terms of modern warfare, though, it's minor.)

Maybe the Vietnamese had a reason to fight us so staunchly, and yield to the Chinese rather quickly.
population size of the Chinese, and supply line lengths, no doubt had something to do with that.

Except the Vietnamese didn't yield. The Chinese offensive penetrated about 50 miles in, and then they turned around and left. The main reason for their invasion was in retaliation for Hanoi's invasion of Cambodia. Given they couldn't reverse that, they withdrew.

from reports, those roads (to nowhere) and railroads and airports (which hardly see any traffic after they're finished), are used to endebt countries into subservience to the CCP, and their "anti-crime" facial recognition camera projects.

Not quite. The purpose of the Belt and Road Initiative, which has cost China Trillions, is to open markets to Chinese commerce. In some ways, it certainly has failed, as some projects end up not being useful.

the Chinese Communist Party does a bunch of other things which raise my eyebrows just about every time they're mentioned to me;

• social credit programs
• severe indoctrination of the youth (note : i vote against LGBTQ+ indoctrination of young youths just the same)
• no tolerance of free speech that includes public criticism of the CCP
• stealing of intellectual property
• starting arms races (over Taiwan and the South China Sea to be exact)
• no compliance to the green new deal whatsoever (2 new coal plants get fired up every year in China).

Okay, but those things DO make sense within THEIR culture. Social Credit might seem odd to us, but to them, it promotes good citizenship.

I will talk more about Taiwan below.

The Green New Deal is an American thing. China is actually making great strides in the creation of Green Energy, and they have more at stake, as air pollution is really a major problem. (I once played host to a Chinese associate at a previous company, and she was amazed at how clear the skies over Chicago were.)

then why the testy attitudes by the Chinese over the Taiwanese contacts with their western allies?
why all the violations of Taiwanese airspace?
why build up a gigantic sea fleet? just in case they "need" to invade anyway?
what are YOU gonna say then? "sorry, oops, hey, i'm married to a Chinese woman you know, and please don't blame her."??

The problem here is that China sees Taiwan as rightfully part of her territory, as it has been since the Qing Dynasty.

While China does have more ships than the US, they are sorely lacking in key assets like Aircraft Carriers and Crusiers. The advantage they have is they aren't trying to patrol the entire world like we are.

To put it in perspective, how would the US feel if Hawaii claimed to be the rightful government of America and China was arming them? Then you get an idea of how offensive our support of Taiwan actually is.

China wants to CONTROL the taxation and shipping permissions in the SCS dude, as well as steal the oil "rights" for the entire SCS and seas surrounding Taiwan.
get your head out of your bedroom.

So what if they do? Here's a crazy idea. GO AROUND IT if they are too much of a pain in the ass.

Point is, any conflict between the US and China is likely to go nuclear, and there are no "Winners" in a nuclear war. Some shitty island in the South China Sea isn't worth it. Taiwan isn't worth it.