am i doomed to hell?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by TNHarley, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Theowl32
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    Theowl32 Platinum Member

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    I believe it is rather important to know the history of the Church or how the Bible itself was put together. There are believers that seemingly think the Church almost didn't exist from the end Acts to when the reformation happened.

    I ran into a fundamentalist once and he emphatically told me that if it is not written in the King James Bible, that it was not of God. To which I simply asked him to show me the chapter and verse of his claim. Not in there and he just stared silently at me. I pointed that he had just said if it is not in the King James Bible that it is not of God and what he said was not written in there. I asked what does that mean, about your claim based on your testimony.

    I then asked unless it did not occur to God to place it on the hearts of his prophets or the disciple who wrote Revelations, that the ONLY TRUE WORD OF GOD was going to be written in the year 1611. The original King James version had the 7 books of the deuterocanonicals.

    They were not taken out of the King James until late in the 19th century. Which means to many the only true version of the word is the revision of the King James in the 19th century.

    Of course they still have a hard time explaining Hebrews 11:35 which refers to something described in 2nd Maccabees chapter 7.

    Then we have people I suppose that ignore Paul where he says in several places that we are to hold fast to the traditions as they are passed on to us through the Church, which according to 1st Timothy 3:15 is the pillar of truth.

    History is a hard thing to accept, but it is not wise to ignore it either.
     
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  2. hobelim
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    hobelim Gold Member

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    No, you are wrong. You and I have been through this before. Have you forgotten ? Again?

    Jesus was not an ordinary man, he was singled out by God to convey the hidden meaning behind all of his commands, something no other man could possibly do.

    If a person is interested in possessing firsthand knowledge of the exalted experience of life that Jesus died trying to teach other people to attain they should conform to the way that Jesus taught to understand the figurative language and comply with the demands of the hidden subjects of the law, the only way that fulfills the promise of eternal life in heaven, the highest realm of conscious existence, with God on earth for every single person who acts on it.

    A chameleon that changes colors is still a chameleon.

    You are not in the highest realm if you are simply changing from a wastrel to an idolator. That may be you transforming yourself like changing clothes but you still remain a sinful creature bound to the world below by you refusal to seek higher understanding beyond your tiny sphere of comfortability.

    If you were transformed by applying the teachings of Jesus to your own life, you would be transformed by the life in his words and ascend above the world of make believe . You would not be confessing to be a sinner pretending to be saved. You were just hoodwinked by an ancient con and are too embarrassed to admit it even though its as obvious as a white boulder splattered with blood in the middle of a plowed field

    You cannot transform "ourselves", into a child of God through deceit or wishful thinking which still begs the question,

    How many of you are there?

    There must be a gazillion conflicting voices in your head to blind you to the glaring absurdity of professing to believe that God became a human being that became a cheap snack food that solves the worlds problems forever and ever amen ,if you would only get down on your knees, close you eyes, open your mouth, strain at a gnat, swallow a camel and believe.

    If you ever get tired of shadow boxing, all you have to do is stop.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  3. Theowl32
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    Theowl32 Platinum Member

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    Do you know how the Bible was put together?

    You seem like a righteous person.

    Do you feel that it matters how it was put together?

    Did Jesus say not all those who say Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom but only those who do the will of my Father? What does that mean?

    When Jesus says blessed are the merciful, for they shall have mercy. What does that mean?

    When Jesus says in John 5:29

    Those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

    What does that mean?

    How about in Romans where it says
    Romans 2:6
    God "will repay each person according to what they have done."

    Did Jesus say in Mathew 25:31-46 that He will separate the goat from the sheep and those who fed the hungry and clothe the naked etc that they would enter? Who are those true righteous that will ask Him when did we ever do that for you? Most Christians know that verse, so who will be asking that I wonder. Cause it says there will be those that don't know they are serving Christ and so therefore it does not seem to matter much whether you know you are serving Him or not. Cause they didn't.

    How about in all FOUR GOSPELS where he announces THIS IS MY BODY. Does it mean that it isn't? If the Spirit makes it so, is it so?

    If something is spiritual does that make it symbolic or real? Does He say that MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK? Does He say that in John chapter 6?

    Does Paul write in Corinthians 10 that we are not idolators for participating in the Body and Blood as he blesses it?

    Does it say we are to hold fast to the traditions?

    Do you do that?

    Are you...a sinner?
     
  4. hobelim
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    hobelim Gold Member

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    You raised a lot of good questions and I have good answers for every single one but not a lot of time today, and aside from that, I charge by the hour.

    I tell you what. Pick three of the ones that you most want answered, the three that you have come to believe are the most fundamentally foundational to salvation.

    If you are satisfied with my answers, I'll send you the bill.
     
  5. Fort Fun Indiana
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    Fort Fun Indiana Gold Member

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    But but, guys...the Bible has objective truth and objective morality! Why can't you guys agree on it?
     
  6. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    I don’t believe you do have good answers.

    I believe he has exposed your deception in the nicest possible way.
     
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  7. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    You can’t codify the natural law any more concisely or accurately than do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
     
  8. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    You are quibbling over the word ordinary?

    You believe Jesus was a man. Right?

    You don’t believe he performed any miracles. Right?

    You don’t believe he rose from the dead. Right?

    So by elevating him to more than a man you are guilty of idolatry. I don’t have that problem.

    As for me being transformed, I’m a sinner. I probably will always be a sinner. You on the other hand claim otherwise. You claim to be on the highest level. You claim to be better than everyone else. I wouldn’t dare make that claim. There’s nothing special about me.

    But he is transforming me on my journey. He is transforming everyone. Even the people that don’t know it or believe it.
     
  9. Mindful
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    Mindful Platinum Member

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    You're just doomed, Ding.

    For the sin of equivocation.
     
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  10. hobelim
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    hobelim Gold Member

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    Apparently if many who didn't know they were serving Christ will rise to life when he comes then its the ones who claim to know and serve Christ but don't who will not. So you are right, it doesn't matter if you know that you are serving Christ or not, it matters if you are.

    seems like Jesus would praise an atheist who doesn't swallow anything without thinking and the we that ding mentions will be condemned

    You are wrong. Unlike the other three gospels the only mention of flesh and blood in the gospel of John is before the last supper and the only one that Jesus gave bread to during the last supper was Judas as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer to the others.

    And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan entered him. This is no small point


    As far as MY BODY IS REAL FOOD AND MY BLOOD IS REAL DRINK, Jesus was alluding to Isaiah 55:1 where the prophet clearly establishes that food is metaphor words, REAL FOOD that satisfies.


    "Come , all of you who thirst, Come to the waters; and you without money come, and eat! Come buy wine and milk with money and without cost! Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods.…"


    In John 6:63 Jesus clearly explains that flesh was a metaphor for words that are both spirit and life and in John 6:68 the disciples who stayed with him confirmed their belief when Jesus asked if they were going to leave him too..

    "Lord to whom shall we go? Your words are words of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God."





    I would never set aside the law of God to maintain your traditions.

    I always do exactly as God commands.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019

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