Algebra and Geometry now required for High School graduation! What do you think?

[Article 15]

IIRC, we had to have Geometry and Algebra II passed to graduate HS.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I took Algebra in the 8th grade, then took geometry in the 9th, I think. Then I took Algebra again, in h.s. this time.

Ditto for me.

I'm not sure how you can be a functioning member of society without these topics. Both teach you rigorous and logical thought, and both have practicaly applications in every day life.

Its funny, but as I teach things about the Cartesian plane in my classes I reference high school geometry all the time with the students. They get sick of me pushing geometry.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Math is a language that very few speak, but everyone listens to

I'm tempted to sig line this. Mathematics is everywhere in the world. Where we've failed educationally is that students leave school without understanding that fact.

 

[Article 15]

I took Algebra in the 8th grade, then took geometry in the 9th, I think. Then I took Algebra again, in h.s. this time.

Ditto for me.

I'm not sure how you can be a functioning member of society without these topics. Both teach you rigorous and logical thought, and both have practicaly applications in every day life.

Its funny, but as I teach things about the Cartesian plane in my classes I reference high school geometry all the time with the students. They get sick of me pushing geometry.

Pretty much every math course I've taken has some geometry or trig in it.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I took Algebra in the 8th grade, then took geometry in the 9th, I think. Then I took Algebra again, in h.s. this time.

Ditto for me.

I'm not sure how you can be a functioning member of society without these topics. Both teach you rigorous and logical thought, and both have practicaly applications in every day life.

Its funny, but as I teach things about the Cartesian plane in my classes I reference high school geometry all the time with the students. They get sick of me pushing geometry.

Pretty much every math course I've taken has some geometry or trig in it.

I'm amazed by how few students catch on to that. That's why I've specifically started mentioning when I use Geometry in a course. And Trig has applications all over the place.

 

[bodecea]

I went to my daughter's orientation for incoming Freshmen at her high school. They mentioned that new standards required the completion of Algebra and Geometry for High School graduation.

I was surprised. When I went to school we took those courses as prereqs for college. Now, my kids are all pretty good to excellent at math. One of my sons won 12th place in the State Math bowl, and is basically a math genius.

But, what use, actually, is it for many people to know geometry and algebra? Some people struggle in math, in spite of being very capable.

I wonder, also, if High School has not become too college-prep oriented. One of my sons went to Technical College and has done very well in the Refrigeration/Heating/Air Conditioning field, making good money. What about so many other fields of endeavor that our High Schools seem to ignore?

What do you all think of this subject?

It's a one-size fits all world in public ed now....and then they wonder why kids drop out.

 

[bodecea]

We had to have algebra and geometry to graduate from high school when I went...and that was in the 80s.

Algebra and geometry apply themselves to all things. They really do. You don't realize it until you learn them, though, and I'm not good enough to explain it.

What State did you graduate in?

i went to high school in nyc and i took algebra and geometry and had to do regents in both. that might have been the particular program i was in, though. i don't know what the basic requirements were for graduation

Regents is college prep.

I don't believe those who say that algebra/geometry was a requirement for graduation....I do believe it was a requirement to graduate as college prep tho.

But many states are getting rid of General Ed classes, vocational classes, etc. You can't cut college prep, you eventually drop out. Shocker.

 

[Samson]

The concept of mathematics seems to have been "downgraded" over the years such that today we say "do the math" when we actually mean to "do the arithmetic." This phrase suggests that people are doing mathematics when they do simple adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing, which are just the basics to math, not math at all. It's a little like thinking of astrology as astronomy, or that galaxies might be reachable. it's a failure of the sense of proportion, and proportion is the basis for all sound judgements.

Where we've failed educationally is that students leave school without understanding that fact.

Very perceptive comments: One, speaks to a lacking in curriculum, which leads to students simply not understanding how the subject is applied, and therefore, not caring whether or not they learn it.

The absence of applied mathematics is readily apparent when we see students learning how to add fractions over the course of several years (often throughout middle school, and even the first semester of freshman Algebra). Guess what? Adding fractions is about as useful as learning to use a slide rule.

Instead, there should be a much greater emphasis on Statistics, the "sense of proportion," previously mentioned. It is this body of Math upon which the public is expected to make intelligent social choices, and which can be most easily manipulated to garner false conclusions; e.g. If one student passes a test one year, and two students pass the next, then the passing rate can be "advertised" as a 100% increase!!

But why don't public schools teach this? It isn't because there is some silly conspiracy to keep the public in the dark.

It is because teachers themselves don't understand the subject. Indeed administrators, often ex-coaches, don't get it either, and parents are simply thrilled to see Buffy and Miff adding fractions better than they could.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't know what happened to my very coherent post I typed out a few miinutes ago but it isn't there. I HATE when that happens.

But what I was saying is that believe it or not, first year algebra and geometry as well as two years of science were core curriculum when I and my kids were in school. And since I use aspects of all in daily life now, I can't see why such should not be part of basic education. College prep included advanced math and science if your major required it. Mine did not so I focused more on English, history, social studies/government etc. which was more useful for my college major. Kids who were not college bound were able to take any number of vocational classes from typing, shorthand, bookkeeping, shop, etc. etc. that enabled them to find gainful employment after graduation. (I took some of those too so I could put myself through college.) Except for the basic core curriculum of useful subjects, school was not 'one size fits all'.

But dammit, what's so terrible about giving kids basic skills and knowledge and critical thinking skills that they are going to need regardless of what they do after school? Everybody needs basic math skills. Kids these days can't even make change if a register doesn't show them how much to return to the customer. So many are barely literate and as for requirements of reading comprehension and analysis of what they read, forget it. I think that's criminal.

And still, I hear those teachers here in real life and here on the message board who are obviously committed and dedicated educators who despair of doing little more than coping with some of the kids. I blame social engineering that gives kids too many 'rights' as opposed to subjecting them to authority. I blame a society of latchkey kids in which the adults are too busy to get involved in school activities--also some ultra liberal educators who don't WANT parents involved in what they are teaching.

And while I know what the answer is, I don't know how to put it back into the equation. I'm guessing there's somebody out there who does though.

 

[lizzie]

And still, I hear those teachers here in real life and here on the message board who are obviously committed and dedicated educators who despair of doing little more than coping with some of the kids. I blame social engineering that gives kids too many 'rights' as opposed to subjecting them to authority. I blame a society of latchkey kids in which the adults are too busy to get involved in school activities--also some ultra liberal educators who don't WANT parents involved in what they are teaching.

And while I know what the answer is, I don't know how to put it back into the equation. I'm guessing there's somebody out there who does though.

Exactly the way I see it, but the answer can't be put back into the equation, because young parents today don't have the ability to look back and see what has happened, as you and I are able to.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to my daughter's orientation for incoming Freshmen at her high school. They mentioned that new standards required the completion of Algebra and Geometry for High School graduation.

I was surprised. When I went to school we took those courses as prereqs for college. Now, my kids are all pretty good to excellent at math. One of my sons won 12th place in the State Math bowl, and is basically a math genius.

But, what use, actually, is it for many people to know geometry and algebra? Some people struggle in math, in spite of being very capable.

I wonder, also, if High School has not become too college-prep oriented. One of my sons went to Technical College and has done very well in the Refrigeration/Heating/Air Conditioning field, making good money. What about so many other fields of endeavor that our High Schools seem to ignore?

What do you all think of this subject?

College prep? Algebra and geometry?! Where the hell did YOU go to school? Where I went to school, we began learning geometry in the seventh grade and algebra in the eighth. It was considered basic education. At my local community college, they're considered remedial math, taken by people who don't meet the minimum requirements for the basic general ed courses on their degree program.

What use are they for most people? Gee, I don't know. Ever try to carpet a bedroom and figure out how much you need? Or do you just pay extra to have someone else handle it? I used geometry not that long ago to plan a vegetable garden for my yard. Yeah, I could pay a gardener to do it, but why? And basic algebraic principles are applied every time you work an equation requiring you to find a variable. I do it several times a day without even thinking about it. We're not talking about rocket science here.

 

[Middleman]

I'm wonder why Algebra and Geometry are considered 'core' courses, but culinary arts, child development, basic carpentry, are not. I believe the latter are really more applicable to daily living.

Also, I'm continually amazed that my teenagers lack certain basic knowledge in Math, Geography, etc, yet all this emphasis on algebra? I got an A in algebra and geometry, but frankly, don't see much use for it for most professions. Yes, it gives one a better understanding of the universe, but in daily living basic Math really does suffice. And, as Foxfyre point out, our young people are often lacking in those basic skills.

 

[Samson]

I don't know what happened to my very coherent post I typed out a few miinutes ago but it isn't there. I HATE when that happens.

But what I was saying is that believe it or not, first year algebra and geometry as well as two years of science were core curriculum when I and my kids were in school. And since I use aspects of all in daily life now, I can't see why such should not be part of basic education. College prep included advanced math and science if your major required it. Mine did not so I focused more on English, history, social studies/government etc. which was more useful for my college major. Kids who were not college bound were able to take any number of vocational classes from typing, shorthand, bookkeeping, shop, etc. etc. that enabled them to find gainful employment after graduation. (I took some of those too so I could put myself through college.) Except for the basic core curriculum of useful subjects, school was not 'one size fits all'.

But dammit, what's so terrible about giving kids basic skills and knowledge and critical thinking skills that they are going to need regardless of what they do after school? Everybody needs basic math skills. Kids these days can't even make change if a register doesn't show them how much to return to the customer. So many are barely literate and as for requirements of reading comprehension and analysis of what they read, forget it. I think that's criminal.

And still, I hear those teachers here in real life and here on the message board who are obviously committed and dedicated educators who despair of doing little more than coping with some of the kids. I blame social engineering that gives kids too many 'rights' as opposed to subjecting them to authority. I blame a society of latchkey kids in which the adults are too busy to get involved in school activities--also some ultra liberal educators who don't WANT parents involved in what they are teaching.

And while I know what the answer is, I don't know how to put it back into the equation. I'm guessing there's somebody out there who does though.

Well, the lost post didn't slow you down one beat did it?

Obviously, you learned to type better than me.

Blaming "Society" is blaming ourselves: Homeschooling is an option, and so is private school, but if you want to change PUBLIC school, then you need to be more dedicated than either of these options.

But to address the matter at hand, MATH, you gotta have people in Public Education that not only understand MATH, but also how it is applied. These people are not found in public education because they get paid ENORMOUS AMOUNTS of $$$$ to find work elsewhere.

What we DO find in public education are experts in Social Studies.

 

[Samson]

I'm wonder why Algebra and Geometry are considered 'core' courses, but culinary arts, child development, basic carpentry, are not. I believe the latter are really more applicable to daily living.

Also, I'm continually amazed that my teenagers lack certain basic knowledge in Math, Geography, etc, yet all this emphasis on algebra? I got an A in algebra and geometry, but frankly, don't see much use for it for most professions. Yes, it gives one a better understanding of the universe, but in daily living basic Math really does suffice. And, as Foxfyre point out, our young people are often lacking in those basic skills.

Bah!

WTF are PARENTS teaching at home?

Get your slaves into the kitchen, and give them a friggin' cook book.

During the summer, have them build a goddamn shed. It may take them THREE MONTHS but wtf, they'll learn the BEST WAY: Trial and error.

 

[Middleman]

I went to my daughter's orientation for incoming Freshmen at her high school. They mentioned that new standards required the completion of Algebra and Geometry for High School graduation.

I was surprised. When I went to school we took those courses as prereqs for college. Now, my kids are all pretty good to excellent at math. One of my sons won 12th place in the State Math bowl, and is basically a math genius.

But, what use, actually, is it for many people to know geometry and algebra? Some people struggle in math, in spite of being very capable.

I wonder, also, if High School has not become too college-prep oriented. One of my sons went to Technical College and has done very well in the Refrigeration/Heating/Air Conditioning field, making good money. What about so many other fields of endeavor that our High Schools seem to ignore?

What do you all think of this subject?

College prep? Algebra and geometry?! Where the hell did YOU go to school? Where I went to school, we began learning geometry in the seventh grade and algebra in the eighth. It was considered basic education. At my local community college, they're considered remedial math, taken by people who don't meet the minimum requirements for the basic general ed courses on their degree program.

What use are they for most people? Gee, I don't know. Ever try to carpet a bedroom and figure out how much you need? Or do you just pay extra to have someone else handle it? I used geometry not that long ago to plan a vegetable garden for my yard. Yeah, I could pay a gardener to do it, but why? And basic algebraic principles are applied every time you work an equation requiring you to find a variable. I do it several times a day without even thinking about it. We're not talking about rocket science here.

Hello, you don't need advanced geometry to plan out a vegetable garden. That would require rather basic math learned by 7th grade. Or, are they calling that geometry these days? They didn't inflate things back in my day like they do now.

 

[Middleman]

I'm wonder why Algebra and Geometry are considered 'core' courses, but culinary arts, child development, basic carpentry, are not. I believe the latter are really more applicable to daily living.

Also, I'm continually amazed that my teenagers lack certain basic knowledge in Math, Geography, etc, yet all this emphasis on algebra? I got an A in algebra and geometry, but frankly, don't see much use for it for most professions. Yes, it gives one a better understanding of the universe, but in daily living basic Math really does suffice. And, as Foxfyre point out, our young people are often lacking in those basic skills.

Bah!

WTF are PARENTS teaching at home?

Get your slaves into the kitchen, and give them a friggin' cook book.

During the summer, have them build a goddamn shed. It may take them THREE MONTHS but wtf, they'll learn the BEST WAY: Trial and error.

Unfortunately, many people only know have to heat things up in the microwave these days. We have a whole generation lacking knowledge of the culinary arts.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm wonder why Algebra and Geometry are considered 'core' courses, but culinary arts, child development, basic carpentry, are not. I believe the latter are really more applicable to daily living.

Perhaps because they figure parents might actually teach their children SOMETHING. They also don't offer courses in how to use silverware and putting one's pants on one leg at a time. The kind of "daily living" courses you're describing sound largely like what they teach at schools for the developmentally disabled.

Many high schools offer elective courses in woodshop, by the way, but carpentry isn't a basic life skill like math is. While it's logical to hire someone to hang a new door in your house when you need it, it's not logical to hire someone to figure out 40% off on a sale every time you go grocery shopping.

Also, I'm continually amazed that my teenagers lack certain basic knowledge in Math, Geography, etc, yet all this emphasis on algebra? I got an A in algebra and geometry, but frankly, don't see much use for it for most professions. Yes, it gives one a better understanding of the universe, but in daily living basic Math really does suffice. And, as Foxfyre point out, our young people are often lacking in those basic skills.

WHY do your teenagers lack certain basic knowledge in math? And no, arithmetic is NOT enough in daily living. You need the problem solving taught in algebra to figure out how to frame your math problem - whatever it is - correctly so as to apply your arithmetic.

 

[Samson]

I'm wonder why Algebra and Geometry are considered 'core' courses, but culinary arts, child development, basic carpentry, are not. I believe the latter are really more applicable to daily living.

Also, I'm continually amazed that my teenagers lack certain basic knowledge in Math, Geography, etc, yet all this emphasis on algebra? I got an A in algebra and geometry, but frankly, don't see much use for it for most professions. Yes, it gives one a better understanding of the universe, but in daily living basic Math really does suffice. And, as Foxfyre point out, our young people are often lacking in those basic skills.

Bah!

WTF are PARENTS teaching at home?

Get your slaves into the kitchen, and give them a friggin' cook book.

During the summer, have them build a goddamn shed. It may take them THREE MONTHS but wtf, they'll learn the BEST WAY: Trial and error.

Unfortunately, many people only know have to heat things up in the microwave these days. We have a whole generation lacking knowledge of the culinary arts.

So?

If many people wanna microwave their dinner, then why should Public Education use public funding to teach them to bake a cake from scratch?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to my daughter's orientation for incoming Freshmen at her high school. They mentioned that new standards required the completion of Algebra and Geometry for High School graduation.

I was surprised. When I went to school we took those courses as prereqs for college. Now, my kids are all pretty good to excellent at math. One of my sons won 12th place in the State Math bowl, and is basically a math genius.

But, what use, actually, is it for many people to know geometry and algebra? Some people struggle in math, in spite of being very capable.

I wonder, also, if High School has not become too college-prep oriented. One of my sons went to Technical College and has done very well in the Refrigeration/Heating/Air Conditioning field, making good money. What about so many other fields of endeavor that our High Schools seem to ignore?

What do you all think of this subject?

College prep? Algebra and geometry?! Where the hell did YOU go to school? Where I went to school, we began learning geometry in the seventh grade and algebra in the eighth. It was considered basic education. At my local community college, they're considered remedial math, taken by people who don't meet the minimum requirements for the basic general ed courses on their degree program.

What use are they for most people? Gee, I don't know. Ever try to carpet a bedroom and figure out how much you need? Or do you just pay extra to have someone else handle it? I used geometry not that long ago to plan a vegetable garden for my yard. Yeah, I could pay a gardener to do it, but why? And basic algebraic principles are applied every time you work an equation requiring you to find a variable. I do it several times a day without even thinking about it. We're not talking about rocket science here.

Hello, you don't need advanced geometry to plan out a vegetable garden. That would require rather basic math learned by 7th grade. Or, are they calling that geometry these days? They didn't inflate things back in my day like they do now.

Hello! Where did I say "advanced"? Perhaps you should have spent some more time in English class too, to improve your reading comprehension.

And no, it doesn't "require basic math", dumbass. It's geography. Basic geography, but geography nevertheless. And how advanced it is depends on the topography of the yard. Maybe "back in your day", someone should have defined "geography" for you so you wouldn't sound like such a fool now.

By the way, Einstein. You were just bitching and moaning about schools not teaching carpentry. Perhaps someone should have mentioned to you that carpenters use both the algebra and the geometry that you hold in such contempt.

Moron.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm wonder why Algebra and Geometry are considered 'core' courses, but culinary arts, child development, basic carpentry, are not. I believe the latter are really more applicable to daily living.

Also, I'm continually amazed that my teenagers lack certain basic knowledge in Math, Geography, etc, yet all this emphasis on algebra? I got an A in algebra and geometry, but frankly, don't see much use for it for most professions. Yes, it gives one a better understanding of the universe, but in daily living basic Math really does suffice. And, as Foxfyre point out, our young people are often lacking in those basic skills.

Bah!

WTF are PARENTS teaching at home?

Get your slaves into the kitchen, and give them a friggin' cook book.

During the summer, have them build a goddamn shed. It may take them THREE MONTHS but wtf, they'll learn the BEST WAY: Trial and error.

Unfortunately, many people only know have to heat things up in the microwave these days. We have a whole generation lacking knowledge of the culinary arts.

So teach your kids to cook and stop expecting the schools to fill in all the crap you're too lazy to do, and THEN bitching that they spend the time on ::gasp:: academic studies instead.