Al Nakba Denial vs Holocaust Denial, what's the Difference

[rhodescholar]

The Liberators: America's Witnesses to the Holocaust: Michael Hirsh: 9780553807561: Amazon.com: Books

"At last, the everyday fighting men who were the first Americans to know the full and horrifying truth about the Holocaust share their astonishing stories. Rich with powerful never-before-published details from the author’s interviews with more than 150 U.S. soldiers who liberated the Nazi death camps, The Liberators is an essential addition to the literature of World War II—and a stirring testament to Allied courage in the face of inconceivable atrocities.

Taking us from the beginnings of the liberators’ final march across Germany to V-E Day and beyond, Michael Hirsh allows us to walk in their footsteps, experiencing the journey as they themselves experienced it. But this book is more than just an in-depth account of the liberation. It reveals how profoundly these young men were affected by what they saw—the unbelievable horror and pathos they felt upon seeing “stacks of bodies like cordwood” and “skeletonlike survivors” in camp after camp. That life-altering experience has stayed with them to this very day. It’s been well over half a century since the end of World War II, and they still haven’t forgotten what the camps looked like, how they smelled, what the inmates looked like, and how it made them feel. Many of the liberators suffer from what’s now called post-traumatic stress disorder and still experience Holocaust-related nightmares. "

 

[rhodescholar]

Story of a Secret State: My Report to the World: Jan Karski, Madeleine Albright: 9781626160316: Amazon.com: Books

"Jan Karski's Story of a Secret State stands as one of the most poignant and inspiring memoirs of World War II and the Holocaust. With elements of a spy thriller, documenting his experiences in the Polish Underground, and as one of the first accounts of the systematic slaughter of the Jews by the German Nazis, this volume is a remarkable testimony of one man's courage and a nation's struggle for resistance against overwhelming oppression.

Karski was a brilliant young diplomat when war broke out in 1939 with Hitler's invasion of Poland. Taken prisoner by the Soviet Red Army, which had simultaneously invaded from the East, Karski narrowly escaped the subsequent Katyn Forest Massacre. He became a member of the Polish Underground, the most significant resistance movement in occupied Europe, acting as a liaison and courier between the Underground and the Polish government-in-exile. He was twice smuggled into the Warsaw Ghetto, and entered the Nazi's Izbica transit camp disguised as a guard, witnessing first-hand the horrors of the Holocaust."

 

[louie888]

...seeing “stacks of bodies like cordwood” and “skeletonlike survivors” in camp after camp....

Sigh...

Noone denies any of that. Historians know that after the allies bombed Europe, the Germans had no way of providing the food, the medicine, or the ability to control the lice. In other words, all those things that were keeping the Jews alive were no longer available to the camps.

Story of a Secret State: My Report to the World: Jan Karski, Madeleine Albright: 9781626160316: Amazon.com: Books

"Jan Karski's Story of a Secret State...

Now I know that you have never even read these books that you link to. I have read this one and it is a joke. The guy doesn't mention gas chambers one time and only speaks of a quicklime train.

LOL - Karski is crazier than you.

 

[Humanity]

louie888 Is anyone denying the fact that the event some call Al Nakba occurred.

YES OR NO?

You aren't seriously expecting a straight, honest answer from Screwy are you?

 

[Lipush]

louie888 Is anyone denying the fact that the event some call Al Nakba occurred.

YES OR NO?

You aren't seriously expecting a straight, honest answer from Screwy are you?

 

[louie888]

Are you people high or do you not read the very threads you try to derail?

It was answered a few times and became clear for him in post #252... teddyderp even rated the post as "informative."

Here it is again:

Israel even created legislation that imposes economic sanctions on the organizers of Nakba commemorations

The fact that you went on some tirade instead of simply answering my question speaks volumes to me and the rest of the board about your character. Not that we needed any more verification, lol.

Please provide some substantiation of your claim that I did quote, even though it is not a direct answer to my question. I'll also rephrase my original question in my next post to try to make it simple for you.

The ‘Nakba law’ and erasing history <----Jewish source

And it doesn't help your case that you are clueless about what you are attempting to discuss.

Bottom line: Israel criminalized commemorating the Nakba, Doing so clearly is an attempt to erase Palestinian history which speaks to the very genocide you deny.

Picture if some shithole country made it illegal to commemorate the holocaust. Picture the boiling blood of you and your ilk. Now, maybe you'll get it, but I doubt that.

And in post #257, it became more clear for him...

Are you daft? In addition to the legislation from Israel, one of your like minded idiots just a few posts ago wrote...

The nakba fraud is utter nonsense....

YES! People deny the Nakba... WAKE UP!

So now we know that the same fascist shitheads who made free speech regarding WWII a criminal offense have also enacted legislation which penalizes those who even commemorate of the Nakba.

I hope that helped.

 

[teddyearp]

YES OR NO?

Are you daft? I addition to the legislation from Israel, one of your like minded idiots just a few posts ago wrote...

The nakba fraud is utter nonsense....

YES! People deny the Nakba... WAKE UP!

Now why do you keep running from simple questions?

I would bring rhodes in here to clarify, but he cannot at this time. However, reading the rest of his post that you left out, he is not denying that 700,000 Arabs left the newly formed State of Israel, so try again. Those who you consider 'Nakba deniers' are not denying the event at all, unlike you with the Holocaust. They only have exception with the name that the Arabs use as it translates to 'disaster' or 'catastrophe'. Do you now understand what the difference is? I doubt it. You have proven over and over again that answering a simple yes or no question is beyond your scope of comprehension.

Your other questions I am ignoring as they are not the topic of this thread.

 

[teddyearp]

Ask MJB, Ruddy, Rhodes, Penelope, and all the other ZioBots. You'll get an answer.

LOL on calling Penelope a Ziobot. LOL on you resorting to name calling. Again.

And as I said, the actual question is does anyone (including the 'Ziobots') deny that 700,000 Arabs left the newly formed State of Israel?

Yes or No?

 

[teddyearp]

Are you people high or do you not read the very threads you try to derail?

It was answered a few times and became clear for him in post #252... teddyderp even rated the post as "informative."
<snip>

And in post #257, it became more clear for him...

Are you daft? In addition to the legislation from Israel, one of your like minded idiots just a few posts ago wrote...

The nakba fraud is utter nonsense....

YES! People deny the Nakba... WAKE UP!

So now we know that the same fascist shitheads who made free speech regarding WWII a criminal offense have also enacted legislation which penalizes those who even commemorate of the Nakba.

I hope that helped.

You never answered my simple yes or no question. I rated your post #252 as informative because, unlike you, I DO read and try to expand my knowledge instead of just sticking to one single narrative. I never knew about some 'Nakba Law', however, as I already posted, the Nakba Law as passed does NOT make it illegal to celebrate Al Nakba. I see you have changed it to penalize. Well, I suppose withholding of state funds to organizations that support said 'celebrations' (or protests) could be considered a penalty.

As far as your partial quote of what rhodes said, I already addressed that above.

 

[Coyote]

I need to correct an earlier post of mine in this thread. I inaccurately inadvertently seemingly addressed the reply, that I will be repeating again, to the latest board clown, screwy; I now see that I should have quoted the actual OP of this thread, the user whom hasn't logged in here for 5-1/2 years or so.

Al Nakba Denial vs Holocaust Denial, what's the Difference?

I found this poll and blog to be an excellent question with some great videos. People go to jail in Germany if they deny the Holocaust, but and in typical Racist fashion the Zionists would like to punish Palestinians for remembering and telling the world it happened.

Don't actually see an explanation of the 'Nakba' connection, but:

There is no comparison. Nobody here no matter what 'side' they are on denies that several hundred thousand Arabs left Israel at it's creation and/or 1948 war. We aren't even quibbling about the amount.

Discussion over.

Move on folks, nothing left to see here.

Here's the thing...both the Holocaust and Nakba occurred. The difference is in the magnitude, the scale and the "final solution". Nakba did include a rounding up and extermination plan, did not involve anywhere near that number of people and occurred within an ongoing conflict between those peoples. So those are the differences.

The similarity is that it was a focal point that represented a great tragedy and loss for the Palestinians. Denying it, is denying them their history. It's like the Turks denying the Armenian genocide. There is a concerted effort to deny it ever occurred, to make acknowledgement of it or memorializing it - a crime.

So the OP is saying...why is Holocaust Denial a crime...but denying Al Nakba not? Worse - the victors in that conflict, have made memorializing it a crime.

 

[Coyote]

louie888 are you going to answer my question in #241?

How does exterminating one group mean less than another? This should be good. And what of the Jewish genocide of the Christian Armenians? And their role in over 60 million deaths in the Bolshevik revolution? Hmmmmm?

There is no jail time for that stuff... odd? And there is no jail time for the Jews who lie about atrocities either!

No one is saying exterminating one group means less than another. But the Palestinians weren't exterminated nor was there a plan to exterminate them.

There was no "Jewish genocide of Christian Armenians". Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia

 

[teddyearp]

Here's my rub. Where is anyone denying the 'nakba' occurred? Unlike the holocaust where there are many denying that it ever happened, everyone admits that 700,000 Arabs left Israel after its creation.

 

[Coyote]

I'm going to say something here in my moderator voice. The question has been asked - why do we tolerate antisemitic scum?

USMB has always tried to be a "free speech" board as much as it is possible. This means we have to tolerate those who's views we find abhorant to some extent IF we we expect our own views to be tolerated. Some folks are real scumwaffles, some of them just support views we don't happen to agree with - but they do have a right to their voice WITHIN the rules. IP is not the place for generic anti-semitic (or anti-muslim) propoganda or conspiracy theory threads - much of that gets tossed into other areas. But the OP in this thread was relevent.

We put IP under Zone 2 so people who really DID want to discuss about the I/P conflict could do so without having to read through page after page of derailing flame fests. It's hard enough to keep people on-topic, without also having to deal with off topic flaming.

If you don't like certain posters? Well attack their arguments, it's the best way to counter it.

And kudos (and M&M's) to Teddy for working so hard to get certain folks discussing the topic.

 

[Coyote]

Here's my rub. Where is anyone denying the 'nakba' occurred? Unlike the holocaust where there are many denying that it ever happened, everyone admits that 700,000 Arabs left Israel after its creation.

I think the dispute lies in whether they left voluntarily or involuntarily.

 

[teddyearp]

Here's my rub. Where is anyone denying the 'nakba' occurred? Unlike the holocaust where there are many denying that it ever happened, everyone admits that 700,000 Arabs left Israel after its creation.

I think the dispute lies in whether they left voluntarily or involuntarily.

Exactly! But does that also count as 'denial'? That has been my point in trying to stay on topic.

P.s. I feel warm and fuzzy and love m&M's, lol!

 

[Coyote]

I think it does...because the involuntary nature of it is what made it a tragedy to the Palestinians, it's what made it what it is.

It's kind of like saying...if you argue about certain details of the Holocaust...does that make it "denial"? For example, the Holocaust can't be "inviolate' to discussion, to contradicting certain aspects of it - history works by being open to it. To a certain extent. So arguing about exact numbers for instance, isn't denial because exact numbers aren't known. But claiming that there were no gas chambers, human experiments, or large numbers of people killed would because a lot of that is well documented by the Germans and by their testimony.

 

[teddyearp]

I don't quite see it that way, in context with this thread. Again, nobody is denying that 700,000 Arabs left the newly created State of Israel. Nobody is even quibbling about the amount. The only thing being "denied" about the Nakba is the why. Mainly because those who are perceived as 'deniers' take umbrage with the translation, calling it a catastrophe. If holocaust deniers were only taking umbrage with it being called "the holocaust" then it would be different (and/or actually the same), do you understand where I am going with this?

P.s. love m&M's but really prefer Reese's pieces, lol!

 

[montelatici]

So, we have one group saying that 700,000 people left their homes (or were killed) and lands to European invaders to willingly become refugees, and that is considered reasonable. Denying that the Muslims and Christians were forcibly removed (or killed) or fled for their lives is just as ridiculous as denying the Holocaust.

 

[teddyearp]

So, we have one group saying that 700,000 people left their homes (or were killed) and lands to European invaders to willingly become refugees, and that is considered reasonable. Denying that the Muslims and Christians were forcibly removed (or killed) or fled for their lives is just as ridiculous as denying the Holocaust.

You're missing my point. I realize I haven't been clear. 700,000 Arabs left. Did they leave of their own accord or were they forced out? I believe it was a mix.

 

[montelatici]

So, we have one group saying that 700,000 people left their homes (or were killed) and lands to European invaders to willingly become refugees, and that is considered reasonable. Denying that the Muslims and Christians were forcibly removed (or killed) or fled for their lives is just as ridiculous as denying the Holocaust.

You're missing my point. I realize I haven't been clear. 700,000 Arabs left. Did they leave of their own accord or were they forced out? I believe it was a mix.

There was no mix. No one leaves their home and land unless they are threatened by harm.

"...... a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined