Al Nakba Denial vs Holocaust Denial, what's the Difference

[Coyote]

I could have sworn you guys freaked out about posting images with no accompanying text. Odd.

Additionally...

If you don't already know it --- EVERY POST in a Zone2 forum like this one must contain some relevance to the Title and Opening Post of the thread. And not just a token swipe at it. The rule is a brilliant way to recognize that we can't stop all the flaming and sniping. And all we are interested in -- is that you address the TOPIC everytime before you hit reply. If you can't --- pick another topic. It's simple and it will improve the level of discussion immensely in any high tension forum.
Heads up - new rules in effect for IP as of 12/1/2015

A mod had directed me there, hope that helped.

Shame on those who support this tripe. Ever heard the accounts from the people who liberated it? First hand, what they encountered. My grandfather was there.

Yes, absolutely, it was eventually clear that those who liberated actually created "gas chambers" for propaganda purposes after the war.

Reality of Auschwitz..

Those pictures are horrific AND i THOUGHT WE WERE PROHIBITED FROM POSTING SUCH OBSCENE THINGS? Odd again.

That said, they certainly represent zero evidence of a mass gassing program. They show typhus victims, many who starved to death after the allies bombed Europe and the nazis could no longer supply the camps with the food and medicine, let alone the zyklon-b they were delousing with throughout the entire war to that point. For the sake of truth, it is important to be clear here.

BOTTOM LINE: YOU DON'T FEED, CLOTHES AND CARE FOR THOSE WHO YOU ARE EXTERMINATING!

Yet....

you still manage to exterminate them.

1) But was there a program to "exterminate the Jewish people?"

2) Were millions marched off to gas chambers?

3) Should there be simple and obvious proof for such a charge?

And most importantly for this thread...

Is it worse, or does it incite more hatred by questioning historical events that remain unclear, or blindly accepting an official story of killing millions of people by gassing without ever having to provide evidence? I mean if there are laws against questioning the Jewish version of history, should there not also be laws about lying about historical events for political purposes or any other reason?

Hogwash.

Let's simplify it.

Why were innocent civilians incarcerated in the first place?

 

[rhodescholar]

Yet....you still manage to exterminate them.

A good forum would have banned that piece of shit already. I guess the fact that you are giving this scumbag a platform for such garbage by allowing it to continue to spout these lunatic posts and how it is degrading the forum never occurred to you.

 

[teddyearp]

Interesting. . . .

 

[louie888]

I could have sworn you guys freaked out about posting images with no accompanying text. Odd.

Additionally...

If you don't already know it --- EVERY POST in a Zone2 forum like this one must contain some relevance to the Title and Opening Post of the thread. And not just a token swipe at it. The rule is a brilliant way to recognize that we can't stop all the flaming and sniping. And all we are interested in -- is that you address the TOPIC everytime before you hit reply. If you can't --- pick another topic. It's simple and it will improve the level of discussion immensely in any high tension forum.
Heads up - new rules in effect for IP as of 12/1/2015

A mod had directed me there, hope that helped.

Shame on those who support this tripe. Ever heard the accounts from the people who liberated it? First hand, what they encountered. My grandfather was there.

Yes, absolutely, it was eventually clear that those who liberated actually created "gas chambers" for propaganda purposes after the war.

Reality of Auschwitz..

Those pictures are horrific AND i THOUGHT WE WERE PROHIBITED FROM POSTING SUCH OBSCENE THINGS? Odd again.

That said, they certainly represent zero evidence of a mass gassing program. They show typhus victims, many who starved to death after the allies bombed Europe and the nazis could no longer supply the camps with the food and medicine, let alone the zyklon-b they were delousing with throughout the entire war to that point. For the sake of truth, it is important to be clear here.

BOTTOM LINE: YOU DON'T FEED, CLOTHES AND CARE FOR THOSE WHO YOU ARE EXTERMINATING!

Yet....

you still manage to exterminate them.

1) But was there a program to "exterminate the Jewish people?"

2) Were millions marched off to gas chambers?

3) Should there be simple and obvious proof for such a charge?

And most importantly for this thread...

Is it worse, or does it incite more hatred by questioning historical events that remain unclear, or blindly accepting an official story of killing millions of people by gassing without ever having to provide evidence? I mean if there are laws against questioning the Jewish version of history, should there not also be laws about lying about historical events for political purposes or any other reason?

Hogwash.

Let's simplify it.

Why were innocent civilians incarcerated in the first place?

Because people in power are sick fucks. We have seen this time and time again throughout history and today is no different. We have this postage stamp size piece of shit "country" which brings havoc all over the wold and hold the power to openly incarcerate the Palestinians in a concentration camp which they bomb! And every damn supporter of that nazi crap on this board screams nazi for siding with the Jews of today.

Sorry, but you asked. Hitler was fucked. The nazi party was fucked. At the same time the men who financed that crap raised the children who finance that shit today. It seems nobody cares for facts. They care for labels. They care for soundbites. They buy into the lowest forms off propaganda, the kind designed for the least critical thinkers and scream "idiot" at anyone who shows this to them.

We have been dumbed down beyond belief and the clock is ticking. Nazi Germany was a damn test run for Palestine today and if we don't wakr up to that obvious fact, then we are doomed to all become the Palestinians of future.

Understanding the Jewish lies surrounding this one part of history, especially the zionist/nazi connection which we have seen on another thread here...

Would Israel exist today without the holoccaust? And moreover...

is paramount in understanding our situation today.

Now, please, before asking more questions, can you answer the questions which I have posed. I have been completely honest and answered everything asked of me. Let's play fair.

PS:

I was not given the option to "simplify it." Do mods here post by a different set of rules? And are these rules public information?

 

[rhodescholar]

I will not engage the human feces poster that should have been banned a long time ago, but for those with even a slight fraction of intelligence who actually have an interest in studying the Holocaust, here's a few places to start:

Irving loses Holocaust libel case

Death Dealer: The Memoirs of the SS Kommandant at Auschwitz: Rudolf Höss, Steven Paskuly, Andrew Pollinger, Primo Levi: 9780306806988: Amazon.com: Books

Eyewitness Auschwitz: Three Years in the Gas Chambers (Published in association with the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum): Filip Muller: 8601404246821: Amazon.com: Books

https://www.amazon.com/Story-Secret...91022248&sr=1-1&keywords=karski&tag=ff0d01-20

 

[teddyearp]

Deleted by me<snip>

If only, LOL!!!!!!

 

[teddyearp]

If you don't already know it --- EVERY POST in a Zone2 forum like this one must contain some relevance to the Title and Opening Post of the thread. And not just a token swipe at it. The rule is a brilliant way to recognize that we can't stop all the flaming and sniping. And all we are interested in -- is that you address the TOPIC everytime before you hit reply. If you can't --- pick another topic. It's simple and it will improve the level of discussion immensely in any high tension forum.
Heads up - new rules in effect for IP as of 12/1/2015

A mod had directed me there, hope that helped.

But I thought it should be reserved for mods to post the rules in red. I dunno, just sayin'

 

[teddyearp]

I need to correct an earlier post of mine in this thread. I inaccurately inadvertently seemingly addressed the reply, that I will be repeating again, to the latest board clown, screwy; I now see that I should have quoted the actual OP of this thread, the user whom hasn't logged in here for 5-1/2 years or so.

Al Nakba Denial vs Holocaust Denial, what's the Difference?

I found this poll and blog to be an excellent question with some great videos. People go to jail in Germany if they deny the Holocaust, but and in typical Racist fashion the Zionists would like to punish Palestinians for remembering and telling the world it happened.

Don't actually see an explanation of the 'Nakba' connection, but:

There is no comparison. Nobody here no matter what 'side' they are on denies that several hundred thousand Arabs left Israel at it's creation and/or 1948 war. We aren't even quibbling about the amount.

Discussion over.

Move on folks, nothing left to see here.

 

[louie888]

...because Eisenhower sensed that there would be Holocaust denial in the future....

More Jewish lies, but that is not a crime anywhere, strange.

And again, Eisenhower never mentioned holocaust denial which was not even a term then. The term holocaust denier came later when historians started tearing apart the official narrative.

Beyond that, In Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe" which is nearly 600 pages, not once does he mention gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. Furthermore, in Churchill's "Second World War" which totals 6 volumes and nearly 5000 pages, again we find not a mention of gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. And the sane holds true for the over 2000 pages of de Gaulle's "Memoires de guerre" which was published in three volumes.

Strange, no?

 

[rhodescholar]

Photos of Gas Chamber in Auschwitz main camp - Krema I

 

[Coyote]

This is an OLD thread (2011) - it might be time to bring it back to the OP's topic. The thread seems to have headed into a discussion of whether or not the Holocaust occurred. The OP wasn't really discussing that but rather the disparate treatment under the law of Holocaust Denial vs. Al Nakba Denial. Here is the OP:

Al Nakba Denial vs Holocaust Denial, what's the Difference?

I found this poll and blog to be an excellent question with some great videos. People go to jail in Germany if they deny the Holocaust, but and in typical Racist fashion the Zionists would like to punish Palestinians for remembering and telling the world it happened.

The link itself no longer works - but here are some other articles that might be relevant to the discussion:

Between anger and denial: Israeli collective memory and the Nakba | +972 Magazine

A strange thing regarding the debate on the Nakba: the responses it generates in Israeli society are becoming more and more hostile, while at the same time, the Nakba is mentioned more and more often. Those contradicting elements live side by side, as if the more we work to forget the Nakba, the harder it gets – the recent campaign regarding “the Jewish refugees” that the Foreign Office launched is just one example.​

WANTED – A psychiatric diagnosis of Nazi holocaust denial - Alan Hart

While I was reading some of the responses on various web sites to my last post (Understanding the real significance TODAY of the Nazi holocaust), the following question occurred to me. Does it really matter HOW Jews were exterminated in Nazi concentration camps? Even if you chose to believe that gas chambers were not part and parcel of the Nazi extermination programme, there is irrefutable evidence that Jews were shot, hanged, burned, injected and starved to death and, also, that many died from diseases that were only terminal because of the conditions of their incarceration.

That’s why I stand by my view that holocaust denial (and most aspects of holocaust revisionism) is evil on a par with the commissioning of the slaughter and the slaughtering itself. But repeating myself on that score is not the purpose of this short article.

It is to request that an eminent psychiatrist or two (or several) come forward to explain what goes on in the minds of holocaust deniers.

I can understand without assistance why many Jews deny the Nakba, Zionism’s ethnic cleansing of Palestine. They believe, wrongly in my view, that coming to terms with this truth of history is not in their own best interests. (In my view this Jewish refusal to acknowledge the terrible wrong done to the Palestinians by Zionism in the name of all Jews is the prime obstacle to peace based, as it must be, on justice for the Palestinians and security for all).

But why would anybody want to deny the Nazi holocaust when there really is so much irrefutable evidence that many Jews were exterminated? Some people apparently have a need to deny it. What is that need? What drives it? What do holocaust deniers think there is to be gained from and by denial?
​

The OP mentioned Holocaust denial laws, implying that there was nothing similar for Al Nakba. I think part of that lies in the sheer differences in scale and effect of the Nazi's vs what occurred to the Palestinians.

Several articles point out the need for open discussion and reconciliation about Al Nakba, not a bad idea. As far as laws forbidding Holocaust denial - I've always been guarded about that. I think these things need to be kept in the open where they can be refuted. Once they are made illegal, they are driven underground where they can be fed, free of refutation and worse - their propogators feel "legitimized" by "persecution" in the legal system. A bad mix of ideology and darkness.

 

[rhodescholar]

Several articles point out the need for open discussion and reconciliation about Al Nakba,

The nakba fraud is utter nonsense; the arabs started a war they lost, and the rest of the world is supposed to feel sorry for them? A war where they wanted to massacre all of the jews and send them into the ocean? So now they cry and whine about it with their manufactured grievance so the ignorant morons of the world are supposed to pity them, and support their fake cause? Are you fucking for real?

The OP mentioned Holocaust denial laws, implying that there was nothing similar for Al Nakba. I think part of that lies in the sheer differences in scale and effect of the Nazi's vs what occurred to the Palestinians.

Uh, what "occured" to the arabs? They started a war, many of them left the area so the arab armies could wipe out the jews - and ended up stuck in whatever arab country they went to. What exactly is the issue here?

As a side note, I've noticed that whenever a thread starts dying in this section you come around to try and re-ignite it, often posting some controversial nonsense. This is solidifying my belief that you and the other mods are not banning the racist trash/trolls because you want the posting activity, no matter who/where it comes from, to satisfy the advertisers.

 

[fanger]

Photos of Gas Chamber in Auschwitz main camp - Krema I

The Krema I gas chamber in the main Auschwitz camp, shown in the photo above, is a reconstruction which was done by the Soviet Union in 1947.
Hollywood has made many a "reconstruction" that don't make it true

 

[louie888]

This is an OLD thread (2011) - it might be time to bring it back to the OP's topic. The thread seems to have headed into a discussion of whether or not the Holocaust occurred. The OP wasn't really discussing that but rather the disparate treatment under the law of Holocaust Denial vs. Al Nakba Denial. Here is the OP:

Al Nakba Denial vs Holocaust Denial, what's the Difference?

That's one way to solve the problem.

I found this poll and blog to be an excellent question with some great videos. People go to jail in Germany if they deny the Holocaust, but and in typical Racist fashion the Zionists would like to punish Palestinians for remembering and telling the world it happened....

WANTED – A psychiatric diagnosis of Nazi holocaust denial - Alan Hart

​

Wow! Really? That must be it? It has absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish lies, their persistence that this one part of history can not be examined, or the fact that these people have rotted in a jail cell for either explaining the holes in the official narrative or defending in court those that do?

September 1987, June 1999, April 2016 Jean-Marie Le Pen France, Germany fines of €183,000 (1987), €6,000 (1999) €30,000 (2016)
Feb. 27, 1998 Roger Garaudy France 6 months' imprisonment (suspended), ₣240,000 (€37,500) fine
Jul. 21, 1998 Jürgen Graf Switzerland 15 months' imprisonment (fled Switzerland to avoid sentence)
April 8, 1999 Fredrick Töben Australia 7 months' imprisonment Mannheim, Germany – retrial – 2011 indefinitely stayed by judge Dr Meinerzhagen. October 1 – November 19, 2008, London, extradition to Mannheim, Germany, on European Arrest Warrant issued by Germany, failed. August 15 – November 12, 2009, Adelaide, Australia – for contempt of court because he refused to stop questioning the Holocaust's 3 basics: 6 million, systematic state extermination, gas chambers as murder weapon.
May 27, 1999 Jean Plantin France 6 months' imprisonment (suspended), fine, damages
Apr. 11, 2000 Gaston-Armand Amaudruz Switzerland 1 year's imprisonment, damages
Feb. 20, 2006 David Irving Austria 3 years' imprisonment. Released and deported after serving 13 months.
Mar. 15, 2006 Germar Rudolf Germany 2½ years' imprisonment
Oct. 3, 2006 Robert Faurisson France €7,500 fine, 3 months' probation
Feb. 15, 2007 Ernst Zündel Germany 5 years' imprisonment
Nov. 8, 2007 Vincent Reynouard France 1 year's imprisonment and a fine of 10,000 euros
Jan. 14, 2008 Wolfgang Fröhlich Austria 6 years' imprisonment
Jan. 15, 2008 Sylvia Stolz Germany 3½ years' imprisonment
Mar. 11, 2009 Horst Mahler Germany 5 years' imprisonment
Oct. 23, 2009 Dirk Zimmerman Germany 9 months' imprisonment
Oct. 27, 2009 Richard Williamson Germany €12,000 fine (later overturned)
Jan. 31, 2013 Gyorgy Nagy Hungary 18-month suspended jail sentence
Feb. 11, 2015 Vincent Reynouard France 2 years' imprisonment
Nov. 12, 2015 Ursula Haverbeck Germany 10 months' imprisonment

I know you haven't yet responded to other questions, but you really should take a stab at that one.

I can understand without assistance why many Jews deny the Nakba, Zionism’s ethnic cleansing of Palestine. They believe, wrongly in my view, that coming to terms with this truth of history is not in their own best interests. (In my view this Jewish refusal to acknowledge the terrible wrong done to the Palestinians by Zionism in the name of all Jews is the prime obstacle to peace based, as it must be, on justice for the Palestinians and security for all).

But why would anybody want to deny the Nazi holocaust when there really is so much irrefutable evidence that many Jews were exterminated? Some people apparently have a need to deny it. What is that need? What drives it? What do holocaust deniers think there is to be gained from and by denial?

Please! Stop! That is a BS straw man argument and you should see that.
​

NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND DENIES THAT THERE IS "much irrefutable evidence that many Jews were exterminated."

And then you wonder why people want answers?

The OP mentioned Holocaust denial laws, implying that there was nothing similar for Al Nakba. I think part of that lies in the sheer differences in scale and effect of the Nazi's vs what occurred to the Palestinians.

How does exterminating one group mean less than another? This should be good. And what of the Jewish genocide of the Christian Armenians? And their role in over 60 million deaths in the Bolshevik revolution? Hmmmmm?

Several articles point out the need for open discussion and reconciliation about Al Nakba, not a bad idea. As far as laws forbidding Holocaust denial - I've always been guarded about that. I think these things need to be kept in the open where they can be refuted.

Thank-you for the sanity, I was getting nervous lol.

 

[fanger]

Well you can deny god exists but question the Holocaust and the jews will send you to jail as an example to the rest

 

[teddyearp]

Well you can deny god exists but question the Holocaust and the jews will send you to jail as an example to the rest

And that part of the subject of this thread has been beaten to death.

However, how about the other part that IS the subject of this thread? Who is denying that several hundred thousand Arabs left the newly formed state of Israel? Who? Where?

Screwy louie only brought this thread to life to circumvent board rules of starting several threads on the same subject.

 

[Hollie]

...because Eisenhower sensed that there would be Holocaust denial in the future....

More Jewish lies, but that is not a crime anywhere, strange.

And again, Eisenhower never mentioned holocaust denial which was not even a term then. The term holocaust denier came later when historians started tearing apart the official narrative.

Beyond that, In Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe" which is nearly 600 pages, not once does he mention gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. Furthermore, in Churchill's "Second World War" which totals 6 volumes and nearly 5000 pages, again we find not a mention of gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. And the sane holds true for the over 2000 pages of de Gaulle's "Memoires de guerre" which was published in three volumes.

Strange, no?

Your conspiracy theory addled mindset makes you an obvious subject of ridicule.

Congressional Record

There's no need to Eisenhower in your conspiracy theories. He testified before congress as to what he saw.

Maybe you should devote more of your time to conspiracies involving space aliens.

 

[teddyearp]

louie888 please tell us where it is being denied that 700,000 Arabs left the newly formed State of Israel, an event that some call Al Nakba.

Otherwise, please quit making this a mirror of your other thread:

Would Israel exist today without the holoccaust? And moreover...

 

[louie888]

...Congressional Record

There's no need to Eisenhower in your conspiracy theories. He testified before congress as to what he saw.

Maybe you should devote more of your time to conspiracies involving space aliens.

Huh?

1) That address was from PAUL WOLFOWITZ in 2005, not Eisenhower. (LOL, know what you post!)

2) The only gas chamber reference regarded Dan Evers who was at Dachau and that "gas chamber" was for delousing or moreover, was for preventing the spread of typhus and keeping Jews alive. No human was ever gassed to death in it and you will not find even one respected historian today that will tell you anything else.

3) What did Eisenhower say and what didn't he?

In his "Crusade in Europe" which is nearly 600 pages, not once does he mention gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. Furthermore, in Churchill's "Second World War" which totals 6 volumes and nearly 5000 pages, again we find not a mention of gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. And the sane holds true for the over 2000 pages of de Gaulle's "Memoires de guerre" which was published in three volumes.

 

[Hollie]

...Congressional Record

There's no need to Eisenhower in your conspiracy theories. He testified before congress as to what he saw.

Maybe you should devote more of your time to conspiracies involving space aliens.

Huh?

1) That address was from PAUL WOLFOWITZ in 2005, not Eisenhower. (LOL, know what you post!)

2) The only gas chamber reference regarded Dan Evers who was at Dachau and that "gas chamber" was for delousing or moreover, was for preventing the spread of typhus and keeping Jews alive. No human was ever gassed to death in it and you will not find even one respected historian today that will tell you anything else.

3) What did Eisenhower say and what didn't he?

In his "Crusade in Europe" which is nearly 600 pages, not once does he mention gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. Furthermore, in Churchill's "Second World War" which totals 6 volumes and nearly 5000 pages, again we find not a mention of gas chambers, genocide of the Jews or the cabalisitic 6 million number. And the sane holds true for the over 2000 pages of de Gaulle's "Memoires de guerre" which was published in three volumes.

I understand you're in denial as what Eisenhower saw.

You're in denial. You have a conspiracy theory for everything.