AGW Meets the Bologna Detection Test

[RollingThunder]

If you clowns were serious about decarbonizing our energy supply, without harming our economy, you'd be the biggest nuclear energy supporters on the planet.

Insanely delusional bullshit, ToadTheParrot. Don't try to project your bogus dimwitted view of nuclear energy onto people who know better. There are many unsolved problems and dangers associated with nuclear fission energy, that nutbaggers like you want to ignore. If someone develops a workable fusion energy system, everybody will be happy to support that option.

The fact that you're pushing solar and wind is just proof that you don't believe your own story.

More insanely delusional bullshit, Toad. The rational intelligent people support renewable energy sources like solar and wind energy because they work!....and they've become cheaper than oil, coal, and gas, even without looking at the environmental and health costs of those highly polluting, CO2 emitting fossil fuels.....you know, the ones sold by the corporations you stooge for.

In the real world....

Solar and Wind Just Passed Another Big Turning Point
It has never made less sense to build fossil fuel power plants.
Bloomberg
Tom Randall
October 6, 2015
(excerpts)
Wind power is now the cheapest electricity to produce in both Germany and the U.K., even without government subsidies, according to a new analysis by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). It's the first time that threshold has been crossed by a G7 economy.1

The economic advantages of wind and solar over fossil fuels go beyond price.5 Still, it's remarkable that in every major region of the world, the lifetime cost of new coal and gas projects6 are rising considerably in the second half of 2015, according to BNEF. And in every major region the cost of renewables continues to fall.
*****

Solar Power Now Cheaper Than Coal In India, Says Energy Minister
CleanTechnica
by Giles Parkinson
January 22nd, 2016
*****

Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels
Record clean energy investment outpaces gas and coal 2 to 1.
Bloomberg
By Tom Randall
April 6, 2016
(excerpts)
Wind and solar have grown seemingly unstoppable. While two years of crashing prices for oil, natural gas, and coal triggered dramatic downsizing in those industries, renewables have been thriving. Clean energy investment broke new records in 2015 and is now seeing twice as much global funding as fossil fuels. One reason is that renewable energy is becoming ever cheaper to produce. Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world, said Michael Liebreich, chairman of the advisory board for Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). "We're in a low-cost-of-oil environment for the foreseeable future," Liebreich said during his keynote address at the BNEF Summit in New York on Tuesday. "Did that stop renewable energy investment? Not at all."

Government subsidies have helped wind and solar get a foothold in global power markets, but economies of scale are the true driver of falling prices: The cost of solar power has fallen to 1/150th of its level in the 1970s, while the total amount of installed solar has soared 115,000-fold. Just since 2000, the amount of global electricity produced by solar power has doubled seven times over. Even wind power, which was already established, doubled four times over the same period. For the first time, the two forms of renewable energy are beginning to compete head-to-head on price and annual investment.


***

"Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world,"

Sounds like unreliable "green energy" doesn't command the same prices as reliable energy.

Sounds like one of the stupidest things you've ever said, Toad.

Of course renewable energy sources are cheaper than fossil fuels.....that's the whole point of our discussion, you flaming retard. And no, numbnuts, renewable energy sources are not "unreliable"; they are actually free of fuel costs, once installed.....particularly now that energy storage is advancing so quickly.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you clowns were serious about decarbonizing our energy supply, without harming our economy, you'd be the biggest nuclear energy supporters on the planet.

Insanely delusional bullshit, ToadTheParrot. Don't try to project your bogus dimwitted view of nuclear energy onto people who know better. There are many unsolved problems and dangers associated with nuclear fission energy, that nutbaggers like you want to ignore. If someone develops a workable fusion energy system, everybody will be happy to support that option.

The fact that you're pushing solar and wind is just proof that you don't believe your own story.

More insanely delusional bullshit, Toad. The rational intelligent people support renewable energy sources like solar and wind energy because they work!....and they've become cheaper than oil, coal, and gas, even without looking at the environmental and health costs of those highly polluting, CO2 emitting fossil fuels.....you know, the ones sold by the corporations you stooge for.

In the real world....

Solar and Wind Just Passed Another Big Turning Point
It has never made less sense to build fossil fuel power plants.
Bloomberg
Tom Randall
October 6, 2015
(excerpts)
Wind power is now the cheapest electricity to produce in both Germany and the U.K., even without government subsidies, according to a new analysis by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). It's the first time that threshold has been crossed by a G7 economy.1

The economic advantages of wind and solar over fossil fuels go beyond price.5 Still, it's remarkable that in every major region of the world, the lifetime cost of new coal and gas projects6 are rising considerably in the second half of 2015, according to BNEF. And in every major region the cost of renewables continues to fall.
*****

Solar Power Now Cheaper Than Coal In India, Says Energy Minister
CleanTechnica
by Giles Parkinson
January 22nd, 2016
*****

Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels
Record clean energy investment outpaces gas and coal 2 to 1.
Bloomberg
By Tom Randall
April 6, 2016
(excerpts)
Wind and solar have grown seemingly unstoppable. While two years of crashing prices for oil, natural gas, and coal triggered dramatic downsizing in those industries, renewables have been thriving. Clean energy investment broke new records in 2015 and is now seeing twice as much global funding as fossil fuels. One reason is that renewable energy is becoming ever cheaper to produce. Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world, said Michael Liebreich, chairman of the advisory board for Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). "We're in a low-cost-of-oil environment for the foreseeable future," Liebreich said during his keynote address at the BNEF Summit in New York on Tuesday. "Did that stop renewable energy investment? Not at all."

Government subsidies have helped wind and solar get a foothold in global power markets, but economies of scale are the true driver of falling prices: The cost of solar power has fallen to 1/150th of its level in the 1970s, while the total amount of installed solar has soared 115,000-fold. Just since 2000, the amount of global electricity produced by solar power has doubled seven times over. Even wind power, which was already established, doubled four times over the same period. For the first time, the two forms of renewable energy are beginning to compete head-to-head on price and annual investment.


***

"Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world,"

Sounds like unreliable "green energy" doesn't command the same prices as reliable energy.

Sounds like one of the stupidest things you've ever said, Toad.

Of course renewable energy sources are cheaper than fossil fuels.....that's the whole point of our discussion, you flaming retard. And no, numbnuts, renewable energy sources are not "unreliable"; they are actually free of fuel costs, once installed.....particularly now that energy storage is advancing so quickly.

Of course renewable energy sources are cheaper than fossil fuels.....that's the whole point of our discussion,

Which is why the new renewables have increased costs in Germany. Moron.

renewable energy sources are not "unreliable";

Except when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining.

 

[Crick]

Carl Sagan offered the following 9 checks on "facts" or "Consensus".

Nowhere in your linked article "The Baloney Detection Kit", does the word "consensus" appear. Why, then, does it appear in the first line of the OP? Where is the slightest suggestion that Sagan was addressing consensuses in science?

Those of you inclined to reject consensuses among scientists as a valid indicator of anything, should attempt to ascertain how it might differ from the commonly used phrase "widely accepted".

You will find that it does not.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Carl Sagan offered the following 9 checks on "facts" or "Consensus".

Nowhere in your linked article "The Baloney Detection Kit", does the word "consensus" appear. Why, then, does it appear in the first line of the OP? Where is the slightest suggestion that Sagan was addressing consensuses in science?

Those of you inclined to reject consensuses among scientists as a valid indicator of anything, should attempt to ascertain how it might differ from the commonly used phrase "widely accepted".

You will find that it does not.

3 Arguments from authority carry little weight — “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.

 

[Crick]

Yes, there are experts. And a genuine consensus among genuine experts DOES have value.

If you disagree, explain the difference between "consensus" and "widely accepted"

For instance, do you doubt the germ theory of disease - that diseases are caused by invasive organisms in your body? Have you ever seen one actually causing your symptoms?

Do you doubt the theory that the universe is expanding? Can you see it expand?

Do you doubt the theory that the surface of the planet is broken into plates that slowly move about? Have you ever seen them move?

All of these things you and I accept as the likeliest to be true because they are widely accepted among the experts. There are consensuses among the experts that these ideas are correct. Why, then, do you think that you feel so inclined to reject the idea of consensus as far as AGW is concerned?

 

[Decus]

If you clowns were serious about decarbonizing our energy supply, without harming our economy, you'd be the biggest nuclear energy supporters on the planet.

Insanely delusional bullshit, ToadTheParrot. Don't try to project your bogus dimwitted view of nuclear energy onto people who know better. There are many unsolved problems and dangers associated with nuclear fission energy, that nutbaggers like you want to ignore. If someone develops a workable fusion energy system, everybody will be happy to support that option.

The fact that you're pushing solar and wind is just proof that you don't believe your own story.

More insanely delusional bullshit, Toad. The rational intelligent people support renewable energy sources like solar and wind energy because they work!....and they've become cheaper than oil, coal, and gas, even without looking at the environmental and health costs of those highly polluting, CO2 emitting fossil fuels.....you know, the ones sold by the corporations you stooge for.

In the real world....

Solar and Wind Just Passed Another Big Turning Point
It has never made less sense to build fossil fuel power plants.
Bloomberg
Tom Randall
October 6, 2015
(excerpts)
Wind power is now the cheapest electricity to produce in both Germany and the U.K., even without government subsidies, according to a new analysis by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). It's the first time that threshold has been crossed by a G7 economy.1

The economic advantages of wind and solar over fossil fuels go beyond price.5 Still, it's remarkable that in every major region of the world, the lifetime cost of new coal and gas projects6 are rising considerably in the second half of 2015, according to BNEF. And in every major region the cost of renewables continues to fall.
*****

Solar Power Now Cheaper Than Coal In India, Says Energy Minister
CleanTechnica
by Giles Parkinson
January 22nd, 2016
*****

Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels
Record clean energy investment outpaces gas and coal 2 to 1.
Bloomberg
By Tom Randall
April 6, 2016
(excerpts)
Wind and solar have grown seemingly unstoppable. While two years of crashing prices for oil, natural gas, and coal triggered dramatic downsizing in those industries, renewables have been thriving. Clean energy investment broke new records in 2015 and is now seeing twice as much global funding as fossil fuels. One reason is that renewable energy is becoming ever cheaper to produce. Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world, said Michael Liebreich, chairman of the advisory board for Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). "We're in a low-cost-of-oil environment for the foreseeable future," Liebreich said during his keynote address at the BNEF Summit in New York on Tuesday. "Did that stop renewable energy investment? Not at all."

Government subsidies have helped wind and solar get a foothold in global power markets, but economies of scale are the true driver of falling prices: The cost of solar power has fallen to 1/150th of its level in the 1970s, while the total amount of installed solar has soared 115,000-fold. Just since 2000, the amount of global electricity produced by solar power has doubled seven times over. Even wind power, which was already established, doubled four times over the same period. For the first time, the two forms of renewable energy are beginning to compete head-to-head on price and annual investment.


***

"Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world,"

Sounds like unreliable "green energy" doesn't command the same prices as reliable energy.

Sounds like one of the stupidest things you've ever said, Toad.

Of course renewable energy sources are cheaper than fossil fuels.....that's the whole point of our discussion, you flaming retard. And no, numbnuts, renewable energy sources are not "unreliable"; they are actually free of fuel costs, once installed.....particularly now that energy storage is advancing so quickly.

Of course renewable energy sources are cheaper than fossil fuels.....that's the whole point of our discussion,

Which is why the new renewables have increased costs in Germany. Moron.

renewable energy sources are not "unreliable";

Except when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining.

You are right. Not only is wind and solar unreliable but it cannot survive without large government subsidies. Financial support in the US is being phased out:

"The economics of solar power in the US are still heavily dependent on government support, including a federal tax credit and many state incentives. The tax credit had been scheduled to expire at the end of this year, but a budget deal agreed by Congress last December gave it a five-year extension, with a gradual phase-out lasting until 2021."

Competition clouds prospects for solar power - FT.com

This is what happened to Abengoa, one of the world's largest solar companies in Spain when the Spanish government stopped subsidizing solar:

"With more than 300 sunny days a year, Spain had been emerging as a leader in renewable energy in Europe, and exporting its technology abroad. But two years ago, Rajoy's government cut its subsidies for solar and wind power in Spain."

Bankruptcy Looms For Spain's Green Energy Giant

The result of government no longer subsidizing solar is that Spain's Abengoa is facing bankruptcy.

With all the solar companies already having failed in the US WITH US government support what will happen to US solar in 2021 when the subsidies finally come to an end?

.

 

[Crick]

I support nuclear power. But there are a lot of folks with concerns and some of those concerns - as Fukushima, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl clearly demonstrate - are valid. Nuclear power must be approached with great care. That increases its cost and limits its applicability. Solar and wind are far less risky and far less capital intensive. Being completely scalable helps.

So, we (and by we I mean humanity) should use nuclear power where we safely can and should use other alternative energy technologies where they are more appropriate and feasible.

 

[Wuwei]

You are right. Not only is wind and solar unreliable but it cannot survive without large government subsidies.

All energy industries in the US started out with the help of government subsidies. Fossil fuel is still being subsidized (July 2014) at $37.5 billion annually.

 

[RollingThunder]

You are right. Not only is wind and solar unreliable but it cannot survive without large government subsidies. Financial support in the US is being phased out:

"The economics of solar power in the US are still heavily dependent on government support, including a federal tax credit and many state incentives. The tax credit had been scheduled to expire at the end of this year, but a budget deal agreed by Congress last December gave it a five-year extension, with a gradual phase-out lasting until 2021."

Competition clouds prospects for solar power - FT.com

This is what happened to Abengoa, one of the world's largest solar companies in Spain when the Spanish government stopped subsidizing solar:

"With more than 300 sunny days a year, Spain had been emerging as a leader in renewable energy in Europe, and exporting its technology abroad. But two years ago, Rajoy's government cut its subsidies for solar and wind power in Spain."

Bankruptcy Looms For Spain's Green Energy Giant

The result of government no longer subsidizing solar is that Spain's Abengoa is facing bankruptcy.

With all the solar companies already having failed in the US WITH US government support what will happen to US solar in 2021 when the subsidies finally come to an end?

More bullshit from the fossil fuel industry propaganda pushers.

From the first article you cited, Dickhead....
"Solar power is a paradox. It is the world’s fastest-growing energy source, but it has been anything but a one-way ticket for investors. Installations of new solar capacity in the US, which more than tripled over four years to 7.3 gigawatts in 2015, will rise a further 25 per cent to 9.6GW this year and hit 10.9GW in 2021, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance. At the same time, new markets have been opening up all round the world, as the falling cost of solar power makes it competitive against new fossil fuel plants in many countries even without subsidies. Trina Solar, the Chinese manufacturer of panels and other components, says it added 20 new markets last year, including Poland, Morocco, Indonesia and Uruguay. The underlying issue, however, is that solar’s attractive prospects make it difficult to make money in the industry, Mr Werner says. The inflow of capital over the past few years has enabled many companies to enter and expand in the solar industry, making the market highly competitive and making it hard for anyone to earn good returns. “Capitalism works,” Mr Werner says. “If you see this massive opportunity, it attracts a lot of competition.” If the difficulties companies face are symptoms of success, though, that is little consolation for investors."

What happened in Spain had to do with politics, not the economics of solar energy. As I noted before earlier in this thread.....

The rational intelligent people support renewable energy sources like solar and wind energy because they work!....and they've become cheaper than oil, coal, and gas, even without looking at the environmental and health costs of those highly polluting, CO2 emitting fossil fuels.....you know, the ones sold by the corporations you stooge for.

In the real world....

Solar and Wind Just Passed Another Big Turning Point
It has never made less sense to build fossil fuel power plants.
Bloomberg
Tom Randall
October 6, 2015
(excerpts)
Wind power is now the cheapest electricity to produce in both Germany and the U.K., even without government subsidies, according to a new analysis by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). It's the first time that threshold has been crossed by a G7 economy.1

The economic advantages of wind and solar over fossil fuels go beyond price.5 Still, it's remarkable that in every major region of the world, the lifetime cost of new coal and gas projects6 are rising considerably in the second half of 2015, according to BNEF. And in every major region the cost of renewables continues to fall.
*****

Solar Power Now Cheaper Than Coal In India, Says Energy Minister
CleanTechnica
by Giles Parkinson
January 22nd, 2016
*****

Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels
Record clean energy investment outpaces gas and coal 2 to 1.
Bloomberg
By Tom Randall
April 6, 2016
(excerpts)
Wind and solar have grown seemingly unstoppable. While two years of crashing prices for oil, natural gas, and coal triggered dramatic downsizing in those industries, renewables have been thriving. Clean energy investment broke new records in 2015 and is now seeing twice as much global funding as fossil fuels. One reason is that renewable energy is becoming ever cheaper to produce. Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world, said Michael Liebreich, chairman of the advisory board for Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). "We're in a low-cost-of-oil environment for the foreseeable future," Liebreich said during his keynote address at the BNEF Summit in New York on Tuesday. "Did that stop renewable energy investment? Not at all."

Government subsidies have helped wind and solar get a foothold in global power markets, but economies of scale are the true driver of falling prices: The cost of solar power has fallen to 1/150th of its level in the 1970s, while the total amount of installed solar has soared 115,000-fold. Just since 2000, the amount of global electricity produced by solar power has doubled seven times over. Even wind power, which was already established, doubled four times over the same period. For the first time, the two forms of renewable energy are beginning to compete head-to-head on price and annual investment.


***

 

[mamooth]

More rain, global warming
Less rain, global warming
Floods, global warming
Drought, global warming
More snow, global warming
Less snow, global warming

I just told you not to use that dishonest evasion, and you still immediately used it. I guess if it's all you have, you're forced to go with it.

Stop blaming everything on global warming, I'll stop mentioning what you're blaming.

If you're not lying, point out where I ever said or implied any of those things. What I have done, more than once, is point out many things that could falsify global warming theory. Here's a few examples.

Sleeping giant' glacier may lift seas two metres: study

Almost All US Temperature Data Used In Global Warming Models Is Estimated or Altered
---
Many directly measurable things could falsify global warming theory. I'll list some.

A lack of rising temperatures over the long term
A lack of rising sea levels
A lack of stratospheric cooling
A lack of increase in backradiation
A lack of increase in specific humidity
Outgoing long wave radiation not decreasing in the GHG bands
A lack of atmospheric CO2 increase
Showing CO2 doesn't really absorb IR
Demonstrating a source for the added heat that wasn't known before
Demonstrating climate has changed the same way in the past
---

That's what I actually believe. Try responding to what I said, instead of evading it.

If you clowns were serious about decarbonizing our energy supply, without harming our economy, you'd be the biggest nuclear energy supporters on the planet. The fact that you're pushing solar and wind is just proof that you don't believe your own story.

Well, that was senseless. As Crick talked about, nuclear has pluses and minuses, and rational people can disagree as to the role it plays. Personally, I've always been very pro-nuclear. You're essentially claiming that everyone has to believe 100% in your nuclear fantasy in order to disprove your global warming conspiracy fantasy. That's just loopy.

So, the point stands. Loopy impossible fantasies don't count. In your mind, nothing realistic can falsify your global warming conspiracy theory, which means it's cult pseudoscience.

 

[boedicca]

If you clowns were serious about decarbonizing our energy supply, without harming our economy, you'd be the biggest nuclear energy supporters on the planet.

Insanely delusional bullshit, ToadTheParrot. Don't try to project your bogus dimwitted view of nuclear energy onto people who know better. There are many unsolved problems and dangers associated with nuclear fission energy, that nutbaggers like you want to ignore. If someone develops a workable fusion energy system, everybody will be happy to support that option.

The fact that you're pushing solar and wind is just proof that you don't believe your own story.

More insanely delusional bullshit, Toad. The rational intelligent people support renewable energy sources like solar and wind energy because they work!....and they've become cheaper than oil, coal, and gas, even without looking at the environmental and health costs of those highly polluting, CO2 emitting fossil fuels.....you know, the ones sold by the corporations you stooge for.

In the real world....

Solar and Wind Just Passed Another Big Turning Point
It has never made less sense to build fossil fuel power plants.
Bloomberg
Tom Randall
October 6, 2015
(excerpts)
Wind power is now the cheapest electricity to produce in both Germany and the U.K., even without government subsidies, according to a new analysis by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). It's the first time that threshold has been crossed by a G7 economy.1

The economic advantages of wind and solar over fossil fuels go beyond price.5 Still, it's remarkable that in every major region of the world, the lifetime cost of new coal and gas projects6 are rising considerably in the second half of 2015, according to BNEF. And in every major region the cost of renewables continues to fall.
*****

Solar Power Now Cheaper Than Coal In India, Says Energy Minister
CleanTechnica
by Giles Parkinson
January 22nd, 2016
*****

Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels
Record clean energy investment outpaces gas and coal 2 to 1.
Bloomberg
By Tom Randall
April 6, 2016
(excerpts)
Wind and solar have grown seemingly unstoppable. While two years of crashing prices for oil, natural gas, and coal triggered dramatic downsizing in those industries, renewables have been thriving. Clean energy investment broke new records in 2015 and is now seeing twice as much global funding as fossil fuels. One reason is that renewable energy is becoming ever cheaper to produce. Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world, said Michael Liebreich, chairman of the advisory board for Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF). "We're in a low-cost-of-oil environment for the foreseeable future," Liebreich said during his keynote address at the BNEF Summit in New York on Tuesday. "Did that stop renewable energy investment? Not at all."

Government subsidies have helped wind and solar get a foothold in global power markets, but economies of scale are the true driver of falling prices: The cost of solar power has fallen to 1/150th of its level in the 1970s, while the total amount of installed solar has soared 115,000-fold. Just since 2000, the amount of global electricity produced by solar power has doubled seven times over. Even wind power, which was already established, doubled four times over the same period. For the first time, the two forms of renewable energy are beginning to compete head-to-head on price and annual investment.


***

"Recent solar and wind auctions in Mexico and Morocco ended with winning bids from companies that promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world,"

Sounds like unreliable "green energy" doesn't command the same prices as reliable energy.

Sounds like one of the stupidest things you've ever said, Toad.

Of course renewable energy sources are cheaper than fossil fuels.....that's the whole point of our discussion, you flaming retard. And no, numbnuts, renewable energy sources are not "unreliable"; they are actually free of fuel costs, once installed.....particularly now that energy storage is advancing so quickly.

Of course renewable energy sources are cheaper than fossil fuels.....that's the whole point of our discussion,

Which is why the new renewables have increased costs in Germany. Moron.

renewable energy sources are not "unreliable";

Except when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining.

You are right. Not only is wind and solar unreliable but it cannot survive without large government subsidies. Financial support in the US is being phased out:

"The economics of solar power in the US are still heavily dependent on government support, including a federal tax credit and many state incentives. The tax credit had been scheduled to expire at the end of this year, but a budget deal agreed by Congress last December gave it a five-year extension, with a gradual phase-out lasting until 2021."

Competition clouds prospects for solar power - FT.com

This is what happened to Abengoa, one of the world's largest solar companies in Spain when the Spanish government stopped subsidizing solar:

"With more than 300 sunny days a year, Spain had been emerging as a leader in renewable energy in Europe, and exporting its technology abroad. But two years ago, Rajoy's government cut its subsidies for solar and wind power in Spain."

Bankruptcy Looms For Spain's Green Energy Giant

The result of government no longer subsidizing solar is that Spain's Abengoa is facing bankruptcy.

With all the solar companies already having failed in the US WITH US government support what will happen to US solar in 2021 when the subsidies finally come to an end?

.

BINGO. There's a reason why Elon Musk is trying to have one of his Government Subsidized companies, Tesla, buy his other Government Subsidized Company, Solarcity. The solar subsidies are going away more quickly than the electric car ones...and he wants to make sure he is a Too Big Too Fail Crony to keep the taxpayer funds flowing.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are right. Not only is wind and solar unreliable but it cannot survive without large government subsidies.

All energy industries in the US started out with the help of government subsidies. Fossil fuel is still being subsidized (July 2014) at $37.5 billion annually.

In 2013, the U.S. federal and state governments gave away $21.6 billion in subsidies for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production

That's funny!
Allowing a company to write off a business expense is not a subsidy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

More rain, global warming
Less rain, global warming
Floods, global warming
Drought, global warming
More snow, global warming
Less snow, global warming

I just told you not to use that dishonest evasion, and you still immediately used it. I guess if it's all you have, you're forced to go with it.

Stop blaming everything on global warming, I'll stop mentioning what you're blaming.

If you're not lying, point out where I ever said or implied any of those things. What I have done, more than once, is point out many things that could falsify global warming theory. Here's a few examples.

Sleeping giant' glacier may lift seas two metres: study

Almost All US Temperature Data Used In Global Warming Models Is Estimated or Altered
---
Many directly measurable things could falsify global warming theory. I'll list some.

A lack of rising temperatures over the long term
A lack of rising sea levels
A lack of stratospheric cooling
A lack of increase in backradiation
A lack of increase in specific humidity
Outgoing long wave radiation not decreasing in the GHG bands
A lack of atmospheric CO2 increase
Showing CO2 doesn't really absorb IR
Demonstrating a source for the added heat that wasn't known before
Demonstrating climate has changed the same way in the past
---

That's what I actually believe. Try responding to what I said, instead of evading it.

If you clowns were serious about decarbonizing our energy supply, without harming our economy, you'd be the biggest nuclear energy supporters on the planet. The fact that you're pushing solar and wind is just proof that you don't believe your own story.

Well, that was senseless. As Crick talked about, nuclear has pluses and minuses, and rational people can disagree as to the role it plays. Personally, I've always been very pro-nuclear. You're essentially claiming that everyone has to believe 100% in your nuclear fantasy in order to disprove your global warming conspiracy fantasy. That's just loopy.

So, the point stands. Loopy impossible fantasies don't count. In your mind, nothing realistic can falsify your global warming conspiracy theory, which means it's cult pseudoscience.

If you're not lying, point out where I ever said or implied any of those things.

I'm mocking all warmers, not just you specifically.

I just told you not to use that dishonest evasion

When warmers stop dishonestly pointing to a heavy rain or a forest fire and blaming AGW, I'll stop mocking their idiocy.

You're essentially claiming that everyone has to believe 100% in your nuclear fantasy in order to disprove your global warming conspiracy fantasy.

How dangerous do the warmers really think CO2 can be if they fear nuclear power more?
Support for their fantasies is obviously more important to them than the health of our economy.

 

[mamooth]

I'm mocking all warmers, not just you specifically.

No, You're just mocking your own strawman, because you're not capable of addressing the actual science.

When warmers stop dishonestly pointing to a heavy rain or a forest fire and blaming AGW, I'll stop mocking their idiocy.

Global warming science can be falsified in many ways, some of which I listed. Are you ever going to address that, or are you going to keep claiming the opposite of reality?

How dangerous do the warmers really think CO2 can be if they fear nuclear power more?

Support for their fantasies is obviously more important to them than the health of our economy.

If was as evasive as you, I'd point to your abject pants-wetting fear of renewable energy as proof that you hate all life on planet earth.

However, I don't need to stoop to such logical fallacies. You do.

So, the second point still stands. Your "It's all about the money" conspiracy theory can't be falsified in any realistic way, therefore it's loopy pseudoscience.

 

[Wuwei]

In 2013, the U.S. federal and state governments gave away $21.6 billion in subsidies for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production

That's funny!
Allowing a company to write off a business expense is not a subsidy.

It's called a subsidy.
What Are the Major Federal Government Subsidies?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm mocking all warmers, not just you specifically.

No, You're just mocking your own strawman, because you're not capable of addressing the actual science.

When warmers stop dishonestly pointing to a heavy rain or a forest fire and blaming AGW, I'll stop mocking their idiocy.

Global warming science can be falsified in many ways, some of which I listed. Are you ever going to address that, or are you going to keep claiming the opposite of reality?

How dangerous do the warmers really think CO2 can be if they fear nuclear power more?

Support for their fantasies is obviously more important to them than the health of our economy.

If was as evasive as you, I'd point to your abject pants-wetting fear of renewable energy as proof that you hate all life on planet earth.

However, I don't need to stoop to such logical fallacies. You do.

So, the second point still stands. Your "It's all about the money" conspiracy theory can't be falsified in any realistic way, therefore it's loopy pseudoscience.

because you're not capable of addressing the actual science.

Which science? Mann and the fake hockey stick, the single tree ring and his merging of proxy and instrument data?

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Global warming science can be falsified in many ways, some of which I listed.

Congrats! You're better than 97% of all warmers.

I'd point to your abject pants-wetting fear of renewable energy

I'm not afraid of unreliable and more expensive "green energy". Buy all you want.

I'd prefer not to waste tax dollars on it or damage our economy or electrical grid because of it.

Your "It's all about the money" conspiracy theory can't be falsified in any realistic way

Liberals want to give the government more power and more money. They think global warming...err...climate change...err...extreme weather is the best way to advance their cause. Billions thrown at climate science has bought them many scientists willing to lie and cheat

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In 2013, the U.S. federal and state governments gave away $21.6 billion in subsidies for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production

That's funny!
Allowing a company to write off a business expense is not a subsidy.

It's called a subsidy.
What Are the Major Federal Government Subsidies?

Writing off a legitimate business expense is not a subsidy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In 2013, the U.S. federal and state governments gave away $21.6 billion in subsidies for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production

That's funny!
Allowing a company to write off a business expense is not a subsidy.

It's called a subsidy.
What Are the Major Federal Government Subsidies?

Thanks for the link.
This was my favorite part.

Here is a summary of 2011 oil industry subsidies compiled by Taxpayers for Common Sense in its report, Subsidy Gusher.

• Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit - $31 billion.

That's not a subsidy "for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production"
I insist we remove all tax expenditures for ethanol and that we remove the ethanol blending mandate. Today.

 

[mamooth]

Which science? Mann and the fake hockey stick, the single tree ring and his merging of proxy and instrument data?

That's more conspiracy cult nonsense. You're supposed to be trying to show you're not a conspiracy cultist, remember?

How much did he get when he won the Nobel Prize?

Who cares? Why are you obsessed with Mann, given he's such an insignificant part of the science? You need to understand that we're not like you. We don't take orders from charismatic cult leaders. The science matters, not the person or the politics.

I'm not afraid of unreliable and more expensive "green energy". Buy all you want.

I'd prefer not to waste tax dollars on it or damage our economy or electrical grid because of it.

And those who aren't fans of nuclear power use almost exactly the same reasoning. Apparently, it's "reason" when you do it, "fear" when someone else does the same thing.

Liberals want to give the government more power and more money. They think global warming...err...climate change...err...extreme weather is the best way to advance their cause. Billions thrown at climate science has bought them many scientists willing to lie and cheat

Reciting the conspiracy theory again doesn't make it any less crazy.

 

[Wuwei]

In 2013, the U.S. federal and state governments gave away $21.6 billion in subsidies for oil, gas, and coal exploration and production

That's funny!
Allowing a company to write off a business expense is not a subsidy.

It's called a subsidy.
What Are the Major Federal Government Subsidies?

Writing off a legitimate business expense is not a subsidy.

Amortization is a legitimate business expense, but the gov subsidies go way beyond just that.