Against your interests

[Avatar4321]

Couldn't agree more.

I can give you an excellent example of people voting against their own interests. Take working class Republicans who vote Republican because of the "family values" espoused by their party, totally overlooking what the Republican party does (or would like to do) to the working class.

In one sense, I suppose, it could be argued that IF these working class Republican voters had thought the whole thing through and decided that "family values" were more important to them than job and financial security, then they would not be voting against their own interests - they would just be making an informed choice.

Sad to say, however, all too many of such voters are not making anything even approaching an informed choice. All they think about are their cherished "family values" without even considering or being aware of what the Republican Party would like to do to the working class, unions and anything else that they deem detrimental to Big Business.

Here is an example from today's news: "The primary reason that the GOP dubbed healthcare reform "Obamacare" was to play on the prejudices of their base. By calling it Obamacare it distracts their base from the recognition that healthcare reform is a policy that would not only benefit, but protect their families. But instead of recognizing that glaring fact, all they’re thinking about is their hatred of Barack Obama, and as a result, act against their own interests."

The Wattree Chronicle: How Do Politicians Get People to vote Against Their Own Interests

Or we could simple see through the class warfare nonsense for what it is.

 

[Borillar]

Couldn't agree more.

I can give you an excellent example of people voting against their own interests. Take working class Republicans who vote Republican because of the "family values" espoused by their party, totally overlooking what the Republican party does (or would like to do) to the working class.

In one sense, I suppose, it could be argued that IF these working class Republican voters had thought the whole thing through and decided that "family values" were more important to them than job and financial security, then they would not be voting against their own interests - they would just be making an informed choice.

Sad to say, however, all too many of such voters are not making anything even approaching an informed choice. All they think about are their cherished "family values" without even considering or being aware of what the Republican Party would like to do to the working class, unions and anything else that they deem detrimental to Big Business.

Here is an example from today's news: "The primary reason that the GOP dubbed healthcare reform "Obamacare" was to play on the prejudices of their base. By calling it Obamacare it distracts their base from the recognition that healthcare reform is a policy that would not only benefit, but protect their families. But instead of recognizing that glaring fact, all they’re thinking about is their hatred of Barack Obama, and as a result, act against their own interests."

The Wattree Chronicle: How Do Politicians Get People to vote Against Their Own Interests

Or we could simple see through the class warfare nonsense for what it is.

If there is a class war, the poor and middle class are getting their collective asses kicked.

 

[Avatar4321]

If there is a class war, the poor and middle class are getting their collective asses kicked.

There isnt though. Politicians just like pretending there is to divide our nation so they keep power.

 

[Immanuel]

OK, I guess you've got me. I won't use "Conservative" and "Republican" interchangeably anymore. I honestly thought they were pretty much the same thing. The Republican party has for a long time struck me as being very authoritarian and in the pocket of corporations. I thought Conservatives were big on out toughing everyone on crime, building up the military at the expense of everything else, giving lush tax breaks to the rich, wanting to do away with the social safety net, codifying religious dogma into law, and stomping on individual liberties except gun ownership. So it is just Republicans who want these things? It is Republicans and not Conservatives who want the TSA, DHS, and Patriot Act?

What is it that Conservatives want? Someone stated that Conservatives are >40% of the population. How can the Republican party not listen to that big a constituency? Why not form a "Conservative" party?

I'm trying to get to bed (and obviously not that successful) so this answer is likely to be short and not all that in depth.

What do conservatives want? Let me ask you, can you define what every "liberal" wants?

I think conservatives basically want liberty and the freedom to live their lives in peace with their neighbors. We've been defined (in the same way as Republicans define liberals) as not caring about the poor, sick and hungry. I think that is bullshit. I think conservatives care as much as liberals do, but, I do believe one difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives believe that they serve the poor more by lifting them up and putting the poor back on their feet rather than providing a hand out for life.

I honestly do not think liberals and conservatives want vastly different things. Liberals want to help the poor, so do conservatives. The difference is in the understanding as to which is more helpful. By the way, I don't see Republican politicians as caring all that much for the poor but then the same goes for Democrats. The Democrats use the poor for votes, but really what have the Democrats done for the poor in the last forty years? I think if you think about it, you can come up with a list similar to mine in the earlier post of the truly lack of accomplishments for the poor of the Democratic Party.

I, as a conservative, do not want to interfere in the lives of my fellow citizens. I hate abortion and if I could find some way to reduce the number of abortions every year, I would do so even if it included that terrible word... compromise. I look at it like this, is the goal here to win the debate or to save lives? I'll choose the saving lives and you can have the damned debate. I want to mend social security because as an accountant and a person with a degree (although only a BS) in Finance, I believe we the people can do a hell of a lot better than the government is doing for us. Note: I said mend, not end. The idea behind Social Security is sound, but letting the politicians get all of our hard earned taxes if we should die shortly before arriving or even shortly after arriving at "retirement age" is BS in my humble opinion.

I don't want to end Welfare. I want to help people down on their luck to find a way to better days. I just don't want those people being stuck in the rut for the rest of their natural lives.

I despise "Obamacare". Why? Because I believe it gives to much control of our economy to the hated politicians. The concept of helping the poor is commendable. Believing that a politician cares about the poor is foolish.

Did I say this was going to be a short response? Yeah, I did didn't I?

Well, I don't think the desires of the common everyday conservative are all that different from the common everyday liberal. You, as a liberal, are not my enemy. My enemy is the system in Washington that works to enpower those who have it all at the expense of those of us who have enough to survive or those who are struggling just to survive.

Can you honestly say that I am your enemy based on the above?

Immie

See, now I take issue with your definition of liberal intent.

I dont see the liberal/progressive way of dealing with the poor as simply giving them a free ride. In fact, I think youd be hard pressed to find anyone who identifies as a liberal or progressive that would agree with the concept of a "free ride".

As to your last question...to be honest...yeah kinda.

Not because of your stated values, because I completely agree with those, but because of your characterization of your opponents. In my opinion, it is a mischaracterization.

As long as we continuie to mischaracterize our opponents, are we not perpetuating the very thing youre railing against?

I didn't say that liberals wanted to give people a free ride and I am sorry you took it that way or that I did not make myself clear. I believe liberals believe what they are doing it for the best for the poor, I jut believe they are wrong and part of that is because like conservatives they too have been hoodwinked by politicians.

Liberals truly want to help the poor and think that all the poor needs is that extra zap to their pocketbook every month and that eventually the poor will escape. Unfortunately, I don't think it happens that way. Welfare is like a drain sucking water out of a bathtub. Once we become dependent upon the government escape is difficult at best.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

If there is a class war, the poor and middle class are getting their collective asses kicked.

There isnt though. Politicians just like pretending there is to divide our nation so they keep power.

They seem to have been pretty sucessful. We're fighting each other and they are reaping the rewards.

Immie

 

[SayMyName]

I do not feel that either party has my countrys best interests as their primary focus/task.

Well said and to the correct point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Some people on this forum marvel that anyone votes against their interest. Personally, I marvel that more people don't. If the true goal of your life is to put others first, and to support your country of your party, you should always be willing to vote against your interests. Not voting against your personal interests in the pursuit of a better life for everyone is the sign of a selfish person, not a healthy, well adjusted, individual.

Couldn't agree more.

I can give you an excellent example of people voting against their own interests. Take working class Republicans who vote Republican because of the "family values" espoused by their party, totally overlooking what the Republican party does (or would like to do) to the working class.

In one sense, I suppose, it could be argued that IF these working class Republican voters had thought the whole thing through and decided that "family values" were more important to them than job and financial security, then they would not be voting against their own interests - they would just be making an informed choice.

Sad to say, however, all too many of such voters are not making anything even approaching an informed choice. All they think about are their cherished "family values" without even considering or being aware of what the Republican Party would like to do to the working class, unions and anything else that they deem detrimental to Big Business.

Here is an example from today's news: "The primary reason that the GOP dubbed healthcare reform "Obamacare" was to play on the prejudices of their base. By calling it Obamacare it distracts their base from the recognition that healthcare reform is a policy that would not only benefit, but protect their families. But instead of recognizing that glaring fact, all they’re thinking about is their hatred of Barack Obama, and as a result, act against their own interests."

The Wattree Chronicle: How Do Politicians Get People to vote Against Their Own Interests

I expect better of you George, Shame on you. Even the NYT is noticing that the numbers just do not add up if we want to keep our social safety net intact. The simple fact is we need to do something, and, at this point, the Republicans are the only ones that have offered any type of plan for dealing with the looming disaster. If you care about what will happen to your children in your future you need to stop pretending that the only issue is your personal comfort and actually vote the principles you claim to cherish. That means that you either have to demand that your Democrats stop pretending raising taxes on the rich is going to fix this, and demand they find a solution you can accept, or you are going to have to swallow the solution you can't accept in order to preserve the things you care about.

The choice is yours. You can remain a maladjusted, selfish, old fool, or you can be a well adjusted adult who actually puts his principles above his party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/keller-the-entitled-generation.html?pagewanted=all

 

[SayMyName]

Some people on this forum marvel that anyone votes against their interest. Personally, I marvel that more people don't. If the true goal of your life is to put others first, and to support your country of your party, you should always be willing to vote against your interests. Not voting against your personal interests in the pursuit of a better life for everyone is the sign of a selfish person, not a healthy, well adjusted, individual.

Couldn't agree more.

I can give you an excellent example of people voting against their own interests. Take working class Republicans who vote Republican because of the "family values" espoused by their party, totally overlooking what the Republican party does (or would like to do) to the working class.

In one sense, I suppose, it could be argued that IF these working class Republican voters had thought the whole thing through and decided that "family values" were more important to them than job and financial security, then they would not be voting against their own interests - they would just be making an informed choice.

Sad to say, however, all too many of such voters are not making anything even approaching an informed choice. All they think about are their cherished "family values" without even considering or being aware of what the Republican Party would like to do to the working class, unions and anything else that they deem detrimental to Big Business.

Here is an example from today's news: "The primary reason that the GOP dubbed healthcare reform "Obamacare" was to play on the prejudices of their base. By calling it Obamacare it distracts their base from the recognition that healthcare reform is a policy that would not only benefit, but protect their families. But instead of recognizing that glaring fact, all they’re thinking about is their hatred of Barack Obama, and as a result, act against their own interests."

The Wattree Chronicle: How Do Politicians Get People to vote Against Their Own Interests

I expect better of you George, Shame on you. Even the NYT is noticing that the numbers just do not add up if we want to keep our social safety net intact. The simple fact is we need to do something, and, at this point, the Republicans are the only ones that have offered any type of plan for dealing with the looming disaster. If you care about what will happen to your children in your future you need to stop pretending that the only issue is your personal comfort and actually vote the principles you claim to cherish. That means that you either have to demand that your Democrats stop pretending raising taxes on the rich is going to fix this, and demand they find a solution you can accept, or you are going to have to swallow the solution you can't accept in order to preserve the things you care about.

The choice is yours. You can remain a maladjusted, selfish, old fool, or you can be a well adjusted adult who actually puts his principles above his party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/keller-the-entitled-generation.html?pagewanted=all

I myself am a lifelong Republican, leaning libertarian. Since Bush, I have come to doubt that regardless what the party leaders say, they truly don't have the answers or they have little or no inclination on acting upon what they say they are going to do.

 

[Intense]

Couldn't agree more.

I can give you an excellent example of people voting against their own interests. Take working class Republicans who vote Republican because of the "family values" espoused by their party, totally overlooking what the Republican party does (or would like to do) to the working class.

In one sense, I suppose, it could be argued that IF these working class Republican voters had thought the whole thing through and decided that "family values" were more important to them than job and financial security, then they would not be voting against their own interests - they would just be making an informed choice.

Sad to say, however, all too many of such voters are not making anything even approaching an informed choice. All they think about are their cherished "family values" without even considering or being aware of what the Republican Party would like to do to the working class, unions and anything else that they deem detrimental to Big Business.

Here is an example from today's news: "The primary reason that the GOP dubbed healthcare reform "Obamacare" was to play on the prejudices of their base. By calling it Obamacare it distracts their base from the recognition that healthcare reform is a policy that would not only benefit, but protect their families. But instead of recognizing that glaring fact, all they’re thinking about is their hatred of Barack Obama, and as a result, act against their own interests."

The Wattree Chronicle: How Do Politicians Get People to vote Against Their Own Interests

Or we could simple see through the class warfare nonsense for what it is.

If there is a class war, the poor and middle class are getting their collective asses kicked.

The angry Hordes, drain too much. Better to turn off the TV and the Computer, and find something productive to do. Life is not an entitlement.

 

[Avatar4321]

They seem to have been pretty sucessful. We're fighting each other and they are reaping the rewards.

Immie

Which is precisely why we need to turn our lives back to God and trust in Him. Our Founders were only able to succeed because they did humble themselves before God and sought forgiveness for their sins through fasting and prayer. It was only by the hand of Divine Providence that our Nation was established, and thats the only way we can restore it.

 

[Vidi]

If there is a class war, the poor and middle class are getting their collective asses kicked.

There isnt though. Politicians just like pretending there is to divide our nation so they keep power.

Sorry but thats BS.

Romney wants to raise taxes on the poor and middle class while giving bigger tax breaks to the rich.

Theres been a class war going on for years. It wasnt until the poor and middle class started fighting back that people started crying foul.



And you asked me a question: What Conservative values have I heard screamed from the radio?

Very few actually. Because whats being spewed out by the Becks, the Limbaughs and the Haniitys are NOT True Conservative values. What they engage in is dog whistle hate speech, the staple values of the NeoCon controlled RepubliCon party.