Against your interests

[Borillar]

I'm going to take a stand and declare what's in everyone's best interests:

The maximum amount of personal liberty conducive to civilized society.

You won't find too many conservatives who disagree. Because conservatives, unlike liberals, recognize that government can only take away liberty.

Then why did they give us the TSA, the DHS, and the Patriot Act if they are so cognizant of personal liberty. Seems to me that the right is only concerned with corporate rights to rip consumers off, and for Bubba to buy unlimited guns. They are perfectly fine with poking their noses into individuals private lives.

You would have to convince me that the people that gave us those things are true conservatives. I'm not saying the are liberals or even progressives, but as a conservative you cannot convince me that the TSA, DHS or the Patriot Act are things that I or the conservatives I know condone.

Simply because those things are Republican shit, doesn't mean those things are supported by conservatives. The Republicans screwed over true conservatives while they were screwing over liberals as well. The people that gave us that shit are elitist power hungry statist and nothing more. They lie about their beliefs in order to gain power just as Obama and Romney are doing today.

Immie

Well, currently the Republican party is the "Conservative" one, although there are a few Blue Dog Democrats. Republicans pride themselves on being conservative and run on conservative values. Republicans voted overwhelmingly for these things, therefore Conservatives must be for them. Ergo Ipso Facto Columbo Oreo.

 

[Vidi]

Then why did they give us the TSA, the DHS, and the Patriot Act if they are so cognizant of personal liberty. Seems to me that the right is only concerned with corporate rights to rip consumers off, and for Bubba to buy unlimited guns. They are perfectly fine with poking their noses into individuals private lives.

You would have to convince me that the people that gave us those things are true conservatives. I'm not saying the are liberals or even progressives, but as a conservative you cannot convince me that the TSA, DHS or the Patriot Act are things that I or the conservatives I know condone.

Simply because those things are Republican shit, doesn't mean those things are supported by conservatives. The Republicans screwed over true conservatives while they were screwing over liberals as well. The people that gave us that shit are elitist power hungry statist and nothing more. They lie about their beliefs in order to gain power just as Obama and Romney are doing today.

Immie

Well, currently the Republican party is the "Conservative" one, although there are a few Blue Dog Democrats. Republicans pride themselves on being conservative and run on conservative values. Republicans voted overwhelmingly for these things, therefore Conservatives must be for them. Ergo Ipso Facto Columbo Oreo.

Many of them are Conservative in name only.

 

[Immanuel]

Then why did they give us the TSA, the DHS, and the Patriot Act if they are so cognizant of personal liberty. Seems to me that the right is only concerned with corporate rights to rip consumers off, and for Bubba to buy unlimited guns. They are perfectly fine with poking their noses into individuals private lives.

You would have to convince me that the people that gave us those things are true conservatives. I'm not saying the are liberals or even progressives, but as a conservative you cannot convince me that the TSA, DHS or the Patriot Act are things that I or the conservatives I know condone.

Simply because those things are Republican shit, doesn't mean those things are supported by conservatives. The Republicans screwed over true conservatives while they were screwing over liberals as well. The people that gave us that shit are elitist power hungry statist and nothing more. They lie about their beliefs in order to gain power just as Obama and Romney are doing today.

Immie

Well, currently the Republican party is the "Conservative" one, although there are a few Blue Dog Democrats. Republicans pride themselves on being conservative and run on conservative values. Republicans voted overwhelmingly for these things, therefore Conservatives must be for them. Ergo Ipso Facto Columbo Oreo.

Where I would disagree with you, Borillar, is in the part of your statement where you say they run on conservative values. They run on what they claim are conservative values. Basically, they have redefined what it means to be conservative.

I can claim to be a progressive and as long as I claim it enough and I can control the definition of what it means to be "progressive" then I am progressive. Most Republican politicians are a far cry from what conservatism truly is. The crowd that brought us The Patriot Act and the TSA are closer to what is known as neo-con and, dread I use that so oft mis-used word... fascists.

Immie

 

[daveman]

Same as the cons do.



BE partisan and help our country fall on it's face/

I'm going to take a stand and declare what's in everyone's best interests:

The maximum amount of personal liberty conducive to civilized society.

You won't find too many conservatives who disagree. Because conservatives, unlike liberals, recognize that government can only take away liberty.

Let me ask you this:

Does it matter who is infringing upon your rights?

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

 

[daveman]

Then why did they give us the TSA, the DHS, and the Patriot Act if they are so cognizant of personal liberty. Seems to me that the right is only concerned with corporate rights to rip consumers off, and for Bubba to buy unlimited guns. They are perfectly fine with poking their noses into individuals private lives.

You would have to convince me that the people that gave us those things are true conservatives. I'm not saying the are liberals or even progressives, but as a conservative you cannot convince me that the TSA, DHS or the Patriot Act are things that I or the conservatives I know condone.

Simply because those things are Republican shit, doesn't mean those things are supported by conservatives. The Republicans screwed over true conservatives while they were screwing over liberals as well. The people that gave us that shit are elitist power hungry statist and nothing more. They lie about their beliefs in order to gain power just as Obama and Romney are doing today.

Immie

Well, currently the Republican party is the "Conservative" one, although there are a few Blue Dog Democrats. Republicans pride themselves on being conservative and run on conservative values. Republicans voted overwhelmingly for these things, therefore Conservatives must be for them. Ergo Ipso Facto Columbo Oreo.

Yeah, not really.

 

[Immanuel]

Then why did they give us the TSA, the DHS, and the Patriot Act if they are so cognizant of personal liberty. Seems to me that the right is only concerned with corporate rights to rip consumers off, and for Bubba to buy unlimited guns. They are perfectly fine with poking their noses into individuals private lives.

You would have to convince me that the people that gave us those things are true conservatives. I'm not saying the are liberals or even progressives, but as a conservative you cannot convince me that the TSA, DHS or the Patriot Act are things that I or the conservatives I know condone.

Simply because those things are Republican shit, doesn't mean those things are supported by conservatives. The Republicans screwed over true conservatives while they were screwing over liberals as well. The people that gave us that shit are elitist power hungry statist and nothing more. They lie about their beliefs in order to gain power just as Obama and Romney are doing today.

Immie

"You must spread some reputation before giving more to Immanuel."

I think thats one of the real problems. Many of these modern Republican politicians are Conservative in name only and We, The People, are so wrapped up in our partisan battles that we fail to realize that the battle lines have been moved.

I think what we fail to realize is that we are nothing more than pawns in their world wide game of living chess.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I'm going to take a stand and declare what's in everyone's best interests:

The maximum amount of personal liberty conducive to civilized society.

You won't find too many conservatives who disagree. Because conservatives, unlike liberals, recognize that government can only take away liberty.

Let me ask you this:

Does it matter who is infringing upon your rights?

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

I object to maximum personal liberty if "maximum personal liberty" means that my neighbor down the street who drives into the neighborhood at 3:30 in the morning every morning, with the damned base on his radio blaring. There are tons of things that people consider personal liberties that interfere with my liberty.

I confess, I object to "maximum personal liberty".

Immie

 

[Vidi]

I'm going to take a stand and declare what's in everyone's best interests:

The maximum amount of personal liberty conducive to civilized society.

You won't find too many conservatives who disagree. Because conservatives, unlike liberals, recognize that government can only take away liberty.

Let me ask you this:

Does it matter who is infringing upon your rights?

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

And if your personal liberties are being infringed upon by someone OTHER than the government, should the government step in?

 

[Vidi]

Let me ask you this:

Does it matter who is infringing upon your rights?

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

I object to maximum personal liberty if "maximum personal liberty" means that my neighbor down the street who drives into the neighborhood at 3:30 in the morning every morning, with the damned base on his radio blaring. There are tons of things that people consider personal liberties that interfere with my liberty.

I confess, I object to "maximum personal liberty".

Immie

he already estblished there are limitations when he posted

The maximum amount of personal liberty conducive to civilized society

 

[Immanuel]

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

I object to maximum personal liberty if "maximum personal liberty" means that my neighbor down the street who drives into the neighborhood at 3:30 in the morning every morning, with the damned base on his radio blaring. There are tons of things that people consider personal liberties that interfere with my liberty.

I confess, I object to "maximum personal liberty".

Immie

he already estblished there are limitations when he posted

The maximum amount of personal liberty conducive to civilized society

Ah, I must have skipped that post when I re-entered the thread or I just plain missed it.

Then I agree with daveman.

Immie

 

[daveman]

Let me ask you this:

Does it matter who is infringing upon your rights?

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

I object to maximum personal liberty if "maximum personal liberty" means that my neighbor down the street who drives into the neighborhood at 3:30 in the morning every morning, with the damned base on his radio blaring. There are tons of things that people consider personal liberties that interfere with my liberty.

I confess, I object to "maximum personal liberty".

Immie

You're neighbor's actions, in this case, are not conducive to civilized society.

 

[daveman]

Let me ask you this:

Does it matter who is infringing upon your rights?

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

And if your personal liberties are being infringed upon by someone OTHER than the government, should the government step in?

If I can't resolve the issue personally to the satisfaction of all involved, yes.

 

[daveman]

I object to maximum personal liberty if "maximum personal liberty" means that my neighbor down the street who drives into the neighborhood at 3:30 in the morning every morning, with the damned base on his radio blaring. There are tons of things that people consider personal liberties that interfere with my liberty.

I confess, I object to "maximum personal liberty".

Immie

he already estblished there are limitations when he posted

The maximum amount of personal liberty conducive to civilized society

Ah, I must have skipped that post when I re-entered the thread or I just plain missed it.

Then I agree with daveman.

Immie

*tips hat*

 

[Vidi]

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

And if your personal liberties are being infringed upon by someone OTHER than the government, should the government step in?

If I can't resolve the issue personally to the satisfaction of all involved, yes.

Then in that case, would government not be a mechanism by which the rights of the people are being protected?

 

[Immanuel]

I really can't believe that anyone objects to maximum personal liberty, but I'll play along.

No, it doesn't matter who's infringing upon my rights.

I object to maximum personal liberty if "maximum personal liberty" means that my neighbor down the street who drives into the neighborhood at 3:30 in the morning every morning, with the damned base on his radio blaring. There are tons of things that people consider personal liberties that interfere with my liberty.

I confess, I object to "maximum personal liberty".

Immie

You're neighbor's actions, in this case, are not conducive to civilized society.

I wish someone else would get up at 3:30 and tell the SOB that! Me? I like all the rest roll over, yell from my comfortable bed (as if he could hear me) for him to turn that damned thing down. I highly doubt that he can actually hear anything at all, though. Lord knows the entire neighborhood can feel the vibrations through the ground and need not actually hear it.

Immie

 

[daveman]

And if your personal liberties are being infringed upon by someone OTHER than the government, should the government step in?

If I can't resolve the issue personally to the satisfaction of all involved, yes.

Then in that case, would government not be a mechanism by which the rights of the people are being protected?

...by limiting the actions of other people.

 

[Intense]

And if your personal liberties are being infringed upon by someone OTHER than the government, should the government step in?

If I can't resolve the issue personally to the satisfaction of all involved, yes.

Then in that case, would government not be a mechanism by which the rights of the people are being protected?

That is a Primary Function of Government.

 

[daveman]

I object to maximum personal liberty if "maximum personal liberty" means that my neighbor down the street who drives into the neighborhood at 3:30 in the morning every morning, with the damned base on his radio blaring. There are tons of things that people consider personal liberties that interfere with my liberty.

I confess, I object to "maximum personal liberty".

Immie

You're neighbor's actions, in this case, are not conducive to civilized society.

I wish someone else would get up at 3:30 and tell the SOB that! Me? I like all the rest roll over, yell from my comfortable bed (as if he could hear me) for him to turn that damned thing down. I highly doubt that he can actually hear anything at all, though. Lord knows the entire neighborhood can feel the vibrations through the ground and need not actually hear it.

Immie

In 10 years, he'll be deaf as a post and step in front of a bus.

 

[Immanuel]

You're neighbor's actions, in this case, are not conducive to civilized society.

I wish someone else would get up at 3:30 and tell the SOB that! Me? I like all the rest roll over, yell from my comfortable bed (as if he could hear me) for him to turn that damned thing down. I highly doubt that he can actually hear anything at all, though. Lord knows the entire neighborhood can feel the vibrations through the ground and need not actually hear it.

Immie

In 10 years, he'll be deaf as a post and step in front of a bus.

He'll probably be driving the same car and not hear the sirens coming towards him and pull out in front of a cop car, fire engine or ambulance racing to save someone else's life. But if not he'll expect the government to pay for his hearing aids.

Immie

 

[daveman]

I wish someone else would get up at 3:30 and tell the SOB that! Me? I like all the rest roll over, yell from my comfortable bed (as if he could hear me) for him to turn that damned thing down. I highly doubt that he can actually hear anything at all, though. Lord knows the entire neighborhood can feel the vibrations through the ground and need not actually hear it.

Immie

In 10 years, he'll be deaf as a post and step in front of a bus.

He'll probably be driving the same car and not hear the sirens coming towards him and pull out in front of a cop car, fire engine or ambulance racing to save someone else's life. But if not he'll expect the government to pay for his hearing aids.

Immie

Maybe the death panel will declare dumbfuckery a non-covered condition and pull his plug.