Abolish the Federal Reserve

[sealybobo]

I never even thought much about these issues. I don't know if we can ever get back to the gold standard. All I want is to take back what is ours. The rich bankers are too powerful.

I just want our government to be the Federal Reserve. I don't want private bankers calling all the shots anymore.

Understood and I quite agree with you about that.

But the GOLD STANDARD is a plan that I simply cannot see working to the advantage of ANYONE but the stupendously wealthy, Sealy.

How much fucking gold do YOU have sitting in your vaults?

None right?

The ONLY people who are sane who want a GOLD STANDARD have LOTS of it.

YOu gotta understand, dude, money is all FIAT.

FIAT money isn't necessarily a bad thing UNLESS we give the right to issue fiat money to PRIVATE INTERESTS WHO USE IT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE AND OUR DISADVANTAGE.

If you think the American people are screwed now, you need to read about how badly screwed they were BEFORE when we WERE ON A GOLD STANDARD.

When people keep producing and they want to exchange goods they need LEGAL TENDER to do so.

there is no way in hell that we can balance the production of a modern society against the limited amount of gold that exists in the world.

That would DESTROY our economy, not fix it.

It would solve one problem (the private banks issuing too much money) and replace that problem with one that is even WORSE

I don't even pretend to know enough about this to give you an educated response.

 

[editec]

It's simple...

Imagine a world where there were 100 things and 100 pieces of gold.

Now what is the aggregate value of all things?

100 piece of gold.

With me so far?

Okay, now imagine that world discovers how to be more productive and now it makes 1000 things.

Now 1000 things must be worth 100 pieces of gold.

That means theres got to a DEFLATION in the value of things and and counterbalanced INFLATION in the value of gold.

Well we live in a society which produces more and more stuff every year.

If we only had a static amount of gold, then the prices for those things would have to GO DOWN every year that the number of things went up.


You CAN get this, Sealy.

Money is tool. It has NO value except that which it can buy.

The amount of Gold in this world, unlike money, is basically rather limited.

The amount of STUFF we can make keeps rising as the population rises and as we become more productive.

Basically the GOLD standard is guanteed to cause DEFLATED prices of STUFF.

In a weird way the gold standard is the mirror oppsite problem of FIAT money.

The problem isn't FIAT money, it's who controls how much of it there is and who gets FIRST USE of it.

And who gets FIST USE of it?

The banks which have the franchise to issue it AT INTEREST.

That franchise should never have gone into the hands of private bankers.

 

[sealybobo]

It's simple...

Imagine a world where there were 100 things and 100 pieces of gold.

Now what is the aggregate value of all things?

100 piece of gold.

With me so far?

Okay, now imagine that world discovers how to be more productive and now it makes 1000 things.

Now 1000 things must be worth 100 pieces of gold.

That means theres got to a DEFLATION in the value of things and and counterbalanced INFLATION in the value of gold.

Well we live in a society which produces more and more stuff every year.

If we only had a static amount of gold, then the prices for those things would have to GO DOWN every year that the number of things went up.


You CAN get this, Sealy.

Money is tool. It has NO value except that which it can buy.

The amount of Gold in this world, unlike money, is basically rather limited.

The amount of STUFF we can make keeps rising as the population rises and as we become more productive.

Basically the GOLD standard is guanteed to cause DEFLATED prices of STUFF.

In a weird way the gold standard is the mirror oppsite problem of FIAT money.

The problem isn't FIAT money, it's who controls how much of it there is and who gets FIRST USE of it.

And who gets FIST USE of it?

The banks which have the franchise to issue it AT INTEREST.

That franchise should never have gone into the hands of private bankers.

So why don't we just raise what gold is worth to fix deflation?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Defend the Gold Standard - Robert P. Murphy - Mises Institute

The Case for Genuine Gold Dollar

"Gold Standard is a deterrent to technological advancement" - The Mises Community

Some arguments for the gold standard.

 

[AssHatZombie]

It's simple...

Imagine a world where there were 100 things and 100 pieces of gold.

Now what is the aggregate value of all things?

100 piece of gold.

With me so far?

Okay, now imagine that world discovers how to be more productive and now it makes 1000 things.

Now 1000 things must be worth 100 pieces of gold.

That means theres got to a DEFLATION in the value of things and and counterbalanced INFLATION in the value of gold.

Well we live in a society which produces more and more stuff every year.

If we only had a static amount of gold, then the prices for those things would have to GO DOWN every year that the number of things went up.


You CAN get this, Sealy.

Money is tool. It has NO value except that which it can buy.

The amount of Gold in this world, unlike money, is basically rather limited.

The amount of STUFF we can make keeps rising as the population rises and as we become more productive.

Basically the GOLD standard is guanteed to cause DEFLATED prices of STUFF.

In a weird way the gold standard is the mirror oppsite problem of FIAT money.

The problem isn't FIAT money, it's who controls how much of it there is and who gets FIRST USE of it.

And who gets FIST USE of it?

The banks which have the franchise to issue it AT INTEREST.

That franchise should never have gone into the hands of private bankers.

The solution is a complex and extensive barter system. Currency is to amenable to abuse.

 

[gonegolfin]

Basically the GOLD standard is guanteed to cause DEFLATED prices of STUFF.

Regardless of what you would choose to back your monetary system, deflation is a good thing in a truly free market system.

Second, in the case of Gold, Gold is not static. The supply of Gold increases between 1% and 2% each year.

Brian

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Those who want to bring down the banking system and/or further empower Washington to run our economic lives, be careful what you wish for.

Washington policy is set and executed by a relatively few people. Man is fallible. The concentration of power will corrupt. Once that happens at the federal level or things go off the rails, there will be little the citizenry can do to reset things.

 

[sealybobo]

Those who want to bring down the banking system and/or further empower Washington to run our economic lives, be careful what you wish for.

Washington policy is set and executed by a relatively few people. Man is fallible. The concentration of power will corrupt. Once that happens at the federal level or things go off the rails, there will be little the citizenry can do to reset things.

Think about what you are saying. Not to offend you, but I think you have been (and this is the offensive word), brainwashed into believing this.

Republicans have been "selling us" on the idea that Government is the problem ever since Reagan was the Prez. Very smart strategy, but untrue.

"I don't want to abolish government," Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson in a May 25, 2001 Morning Edition interview. "I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."

Healthcare Reveals Real "Conservative" Agenda - Drown Democracy In A Bathtub

And if you believed it before, after watching John Stewart interview Kramer, is there any question at this point that our problems came from Wallstreet? Whether you want to blame the GOP or DEMS, everytime they get caught doing something wrong, it always seems to be that they are catering to the rich.

When we expose a Republican for doing it, right wingers say they all do it. When you expose a Democrat, you seem to forget that what they got caught doing is what your party does unashamadly.

And those of you who trusted/believed Wallstreet bankers and thought they would be honorable regulating themselves, think again. Same for the people who defended the oil companies who were recording record profits because they were gouging us. Yes, Washington was part of that problem, because they looked the other way.

We elect the people who are in Washington.

Do you vote on who runs the Federal Reserve or AIG?

And trust me, a relatively small number of people run/own the Federal Reserve too.

Consider Washington the refs. They make the rules. We need refs or the game won't be fair. Can the refs be corrupted? Of course. But they can also be replaced. You can't replace the rich bankers that pull our politicians strings.

When Washington corruption is exposed, isn't it usually that they are doing favors for the rich and/or mega corporations who send their lobbyists to washington to get policies passed that favor the few and not the many?

So don't be confused here. Yes Washington can be part of the problem, as Bush & Tom Delay & Jack Abramoff proved, but they aren't the real source of the problem. Well actually Bush & chaney were the source, because they weren't just government, they were also the oil and defense companies that the GOP government loves to serve. They let the energy giants write our countries energy policy. Of course the cost to heat your homes went up. Duh! And remember that energy exec who sent the email out laughing about poor old people freezing while they recorded record profits?

It should be obvious to you after watching the Daily Show with Kramer. Stewart had tape of Hedge Fund Manager Kramer contradicting/busting/exposing CNBC Kramer. In Kramer we trust? HA!

And this is proof that CNBC is not a liberal station. If they were, they would have not lied to us about what was going on in Wallstreet.

Kramer and CNBC lost all their credibility. They are in bed with Wallstreet.

We told you guys. But you were protecting your party. Stop doing that.

 

[sealybobo]

Those who want to bring down the banking system and/or further empower Washington to run our economic lives, be careful what you wish for.

Washington policy is set and executed by a relatively few people. Man is fallible. The concentration of power will corrupt. Once that happens at the federal level or things go off the rails, there will be little the citizenry can do to reset things.

Look, the British seem to get it:

G-20 protesters smash bank windows
Nearly 20 arrested in clashes with police in London's financial district

While most of the protesters were peaceful, a violent mob wearing balaclavas broke into the RBS building and stole keyboards that were used to break windows. Other protesters spray-painted graffiti on the RBS building, writing "class war" and "thieves."


Protesters focused the Royal Bank of Scotland because it was bailed out by the British government after a series of disastrous deals brought it to the brink of bankruptcy. Still, its former chief executive Fred Goodwin managed to walk off with a tidy annual pension of 703,000 pounds ($1.2 million) — just as unemployment in Britain is at 2 million and rising.

Notice these people aren't blaming poor people or Freddy/Fanny on their problems.

"Every job I apply for there's already 150 people who have also applied," said protester Nathan Dean, 35, who lost his information technology job three weeks ago. "I have had to sign on to the dole (welfare) for the first time in my life. You end up having to pay your mortgage on your credit card and you fall into debt twice over."

Bankers have been lambasted as being greedy and blamed for the recession that is making jobless ranks soar. Protesters waved banners reading "Banks are evil," "Eat the bankers," and "0% interest in others."

G-20 protesters smash bank windows - Europe- msnbc.com

 

[sealybobo]

Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson both knew the problems that central banks caused, and it's a shame that our more modern administrations have not had the sense or courage to stand up to the Fed.

Our more modern admins were carefully sifted to be sure there weren't going to be any "mavericks" who might be willing to step out of line.

Back in the day you had a shot, but now, you're automatically screwed with whoever the two main candidates are.

I'll never vote for anyone who doesn't challenge the Fed.

Obama has floated the idea that he might Nationalize the Banks. Chris Dodd too. Did you ever hear a Republican besides Ron Paul say it? No way. They will never sell out the bankers. The Democrats might. But not until more people wake up.

I found this:

Are you aware that the U.S. Constitution states that only Congress has the authority to create money; this money must be backed by gold and silver; and "bills of credit," also known as Federal Reserve Notes, are illegal under Article I?

Are you aware that our government is violating all of these stipulations at this time? The Federal Reserve System is a quasi-private, government-sanctioned banking cartel that issues "bills of credit" on behalf of Congress. This banking system, in violation of the U.S. Constitution, creates endless amounts of paper currency out of thin air and then lends it to the government creating the national debt. Behind-the-scenes planners of the Federal Reserve System knew from day-one that they would have to lobby to instate an income tax to ensure interest payments on the national debt, thus the Fed and the Income Tax were both created in the same year, 1913.

Most citizens aren't aware that every dollar that comes into existence does so as a dollar of debt because the entire money supply of the United States is no longer backed by gold or silver, but DEBT. Is it any wonder we are now in a "credit crises"? We now live in a nation so overwhelmed by public and private debt, it will be impossible to pay it all off.

Due to the mathematics of principle and interest creation under "fractional reserve banking" as codified and practiced by the Federal

Look I was saying this 8 years ago

 

[Paulie]

It's simple...

Imagine a world where there were 100 things and 100 pieces of gold.

Now what is the aggregate value of all things?

100 piece of gold.

With me so far?

Okay, now imagine that world discovers how to be more productive and now it makes 1000 things.

Now 1000 things must be worth 100 pieces of gold.

That means theres got to a DEFLATION in the value of things and and counterbalanced INFLATION in the value of gold.

Well we live in a society which produces more and more stuff every year.

If we only had a static amount of gold, then the prices for those things would have to GO DOWN every year that the number of things went up.


You CAN get this, Sealy.

Money is tool. It has NO value except that which it can buy.

The amount of Gold in this world, unlike money, is basically rather limited.

The amount of STUFF we can make keeps rising as the population rises and as we become more productive.

Basically the GOLD standard is guanteed to cause DEFLATED prices of STUFF.

In a weird way the gold standard is the mirror oppsite problem of FIAT money.

The problem isn't FIAT money, it's who controls how much of it there is and who gets FIRST USE of it.

And who gets FIST USE of it?

The banks which have the franchise to issue it AT INTEREST.

That franchise should never have gone into the hands of private bankers.

So why don't we just raise what gold is worth to fix deflation?

That's actually exactly how the gold standard could work today. Congress has the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof, and fix the standard of weights and measures. How much or how little gold there is really isn't relevant.

 

[esthermoon]

Maybe instead of abolish the federal reserve your Congress could turn the Fed into a bank owned by the American government.
As a result of doing this you would have a National Bank and not a bank ruled by private and rich citizens

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe instead of abolish the federal reserve your Congress could turn the Fed into a bank owned by the American government.
As a result of doing this you would have a National Bank and not a bank ruled by private and rich citizens

Exactly! Why pay interest on our debt? We can manage it ourselves.

Isn't it amazing we allowed them to change us from the largest creditor nation to the largest debt?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Maybe instead of abolish the federal reserve your Congress could turn the Fed into a bank owned by the American government.
As a result of doing this you would have a National Bank and not a bank ruled by private and rich citizens

Greenspan Bernanke and Yellen are not rich but rather college professor types who thankfully are mostly independent from Congress which has a 8% approval rating.

 

[esthermoon]

But the can't be independent because people behind them are rich.
Everybody knows bankers are wealthy

 

[BuckToothMoron]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
- Thomas Jefferson

Damn you Sealybobo, how dare you make me agree with a liberal. Oh well, I guess common ground is a good thing.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson both knew the problems that central banks caused, and it's a shame that our more modern administrations have not had the sense or courage to stand up to the Fed.

It allows are government to borrow and spend as they please. The Fed will buy government bonds, inflate its balance sheet and deflate the value of your dollar. It's essentially a tax thru inflation.

 

[sealybobo]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
- Thomas Jefferson

Damn you Sealybobo, how dare you make me agree with a liberal. Oh well, I guess common ground is a good thing.

Of course we agree. They got us divided over bullshit

And they got you convinced that it's the poor who's ripping you off when the real crooks are at the top. But that doesn't mean I don't understand there's welfare abuse. And I know you want to help people who fell on hard times.

Republicans have finally figured out free unregulated trade with the developing world is bad for American workers. Before this election you weren't worried about workers and how hurting them would negatively affect the economy. Your side argued it was good for consumers and companies if we bought Chinese and Mexican. Now you care?

I do hope we can all agree with trump the whole system is rigged and it's not the poor who rigged it or who are benefitting

 

[BuckToothMoron]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
- Thomas Jefferson

Damn you Sealybobo, how dare you make me agree with a liberal. Oh well, I guess common ground is a good thing.

Of course we agree. They got us divided over bullshit

And they got you convinced that it's the poor who's ripping you off when the real crooks are at the top. But that doesn't mean I don't understand there's welfare abuse. And I know you want to help people who fell on hard times.

Republicans have finally figured out free unregulated trade with the developing world is bad for American workers. Before this election you weren't worried about workers and how hurting them would negatively affect the economy. Your side argued it was good for consumers and companies if we bought Chinese and Mexican. Now you care?

I do hope we can all agree with trump the whole system is rigged and it's not the poor who rigged it or who are benefitting

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I concur that the insiders at the top are manipulating SOB's and in my view they use the poor and uniformed to advance themselves. They set up a system to keep the poor down and thus rob them of the American dream. They convince them that without government help they can not survive, let alone advance.

I don't look at the poor as ripping me off, I look at the government ripping them off, not of money, but of a future.

I am NOT a republican, I am a conservative who believes in individual freedoms, rights and responsibilities. You mentioned the year 1913 when the Fed Reserve was chartered. Another very bad thing happened that year which was the 17th Amendment. This essential started the process of usurping states rights. States no longer have any representation in the federal government. Senators act on behalf of their constituents, those who elect them, and after the 17th Amendment they have the same constituents as members of the House of Representatives. State governments have no voice and thus no power.

So, yes let's abolish the Federal Reserve and repeal the 17th Amendment. Can we agree on those 2 things?