Abolish the Federal Reserve

[jillian]

The Supreme Court and I seem to be at odds quite a bit. However, the Constitution does not authorize a central bank and it states that only gold and silver may be legal tender. Therefore, a central bank and fiat currency are both unconstitutional.

Well, I'd suggest that where you and the Court are at odds... the Court wins. You can disagree with decisions... you can curse the day the court was created... but nonetheless, is what it is and the Court is the final arbiter of constitutionality (something I had to swallow after Bush v Gore).

Congress is given the power to "coin money". I'd think that means paper, too. The Constitution has never been as literally interpreted as you might wish. And Congress always has the right to regulate commerce and do what is "necessary and proper".

I think you'd lose on this one too.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, I'm aware that the Federal Reserve and fiat currency are unconstitutional. But Obama and Dodd have no intention to do anything about it.

Kevin, the Supreme Court has never held the federal reserve to be unconstitutional. So whatever your opinion on that issue, it isn't bourne out by the Court.

The Supreme Court and I seem to be at odds quite a bit. However, the Constitution does not authorize a central bank and it states that only gold and silver may be legal tender. Therefore, a central bank and fiat currency are both unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court agreed with you, in the 1800's. They haven't ruled either way since. Probably avoiding the subject, just like Obama, McCain, Dodd, Boehner, Hillary, etc.

 

[sealybobo]

The Supreme Court and I seem to be at odds quite a bit. However, the Constitution does not authorize a central bank and it states that only gold and silver may be legal tender. Therefore, a central bank and fiat currency are both unconstitutional.

Well, I'd suggest that where you and the Court are at odds... the Court wins. You can disagree with decisions... you can curse the day the court was created... but nonetheless, is what it is and the Court is the final arbiter of constitutionality (something I had to swallow after Bush v Gore).

Congress is given the power to "coin money". I'd think that means paper, too. The Constitution has never been as literally interpreted as you might wish. And Congress always has the right to regulate commerce and do what is "necessary and proper".

I think you'd lose on this one too.

You can't argue with the people who have won in court.

But even Ron Paul will admit, that the people who have all the guns make all the rules. That doesn't mean they are acting constitutionally.

People who have good lawyers have won in court. You can't deny that.

But most lose, because the lower courts railroad them. And literally, the lower courts are going against what the Supreme court ruled.

Again, it was in the 1800's, but that is the last time the ruled on this subject.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The Supreme Court and I seem to be at odds quite a bit. However, the Constitution does not authorize a central bank and it states that only gold and silver may be legal tender. Therefore, a central bank and fiat currency are both unconstitutional.

Well, I'd suggest that where you and the Court are at odds... the Court wins. You can disagree with decisions... you can curse the day the court was created... but nonetheless, is what it is and the Court is the final arbiter of constitutionality (something I had to swallow after Bush v Gore).

Congress is given the power to "coin money". I'd think that means paper, too. The Constitution has never been as literally interpreted as you might wish. And Congress always has the right to regulate commerce and do what is "necessary and proper".

I think you'd lose on this one too.

I'm well aware of the Court's power and my lack thereof to make the final call on what is constitutional.

 

[sealybobo]

And if Ron Paul and Dennis Kucenich were wrong, the other politicians would LOVE to expose them for being morons.

But they aren't wrong, so instead they are ignored.

Ron Paul was winning the debates. This subject came up and all of the sudden, he isn't allowed to debate anymore.

 

[jillian]

You can't argue with the people who have won in court.

But even Ron Paul will admit, that the people who have all the guns make all the rules. That doesn't mean they are acting constitutionally.

People who have good lawyers have won in court. You can't deny that.

But most lose, because the lower courts railroad them. And literally, the lower courts are going against what the Supreme court ruled.

Again, it was in the 1800's, but that is the last time the ruled on this subject.

Even Ron Paul? Er... sorry, I'm afraid nothing Ron Paul says is anything I'd find particularly convincing. And last I heard, no one was pulling guns on the Justices of the Supreme Court.

As for people with good lawyers winning in Court, I'm not certain I understand your point. I suspect that someone who wished to raise this issue and had standing to do so could find a good lawyer.

Lower courts get reversed all the time. That's why you have decisions like Miranda and Mapp, both of which supported the accused (and not very savory individuals at that) ovr the desires of government. So I'm not certain where you're going with this.

 

[sealybobo]

You can't argue with the people who have won in court.

But even Ron Paul will admit, that the people who have all the guns make all the rules. That doesn't mean they are acting constitutionally.

People who have good lawyers have won in court. You can't deny that.

But most lose, because the lower courts railroad them. And literally, the lower courts are going against what the Supreme court ruled.

Again, it was in the 1800's, but that is the last time the ruled on this subject.

Even Ron Paul? Er... sorry, I'm afraid nothing Ron Paul says is anything I'd find particularly convincing. And last I heard, no one was pulling guns on the Justices of the Supreme Court.

As for people with good lawyers winning in Court, I'm not certain I understand your point. I suspect that someone who wished to raise this issue and had standing to do so could find a good lawyer.

Lower courts get reversed all the time. That's why you have decisions like Miranda and Mapp, both of which supported the accused (and not very savory individuals at that) ovr the desires of government. So I'm not certain where you're going with this.

It never makes it to the Supreme Court. The appeals courts shoot it down. So the lower courts are going against the Supreme Courts stari decisis. LOL. Big word for me.


This comes from Thom Hartmann. Do you disagree with this?

Are you aware that the U.S. Constitution states that only Congress has the authority to create money; this money must be backed by gold and silver; and "bills of credit," also known as Federal Reserve Notes, are illegal under Article I?

Are you aware that our government is violating all of these stipulations at this time? The Federal Reserve System is a quasi-private, government-sanctioned banking cartel that issues "bills of credit" on behalf of Congress. This banking system, in violation of the U.S. Constitution, creates endless amounts of paper currency out of thin air and then lends it to the government creating the national debt. Behind-the-scenes planners of the Federal Reserve System knew from day-one that they would have to lobby to instate an income tax to ensure interest payments on the national debt, thus the Fed and the Income Tax were both created in the same year, 1913.

Most citizens aren't aware that every dollar that comes into existence does so as a dollar of debt because the entire money supply of the United States is no longer backed by gold or silver, but DEBT. Is it any wonder we are now in a "credit crises"? We now live in a nation so overwhelmed by public and private debt, it will be impossible to pay it all off.

Due to the mathematics of principle and interest creation under "fractional reserve banking" as codified and practiced by the Federal Reserve System, the U.S. monetary system is the largest ponzi scheme in history, now well over $100 trillion dollars . . . and growing. Why else is "globalization" necessary, than to bring in fresh money?!


Watch this award-winning film to find out why some feel the Federal Reserve's practices of facilitating fiat money are a violation of the U.S. Constitution and others feel it's simply "a bunch of organized crooks." Find out what fiat money and fractional reserve banking are and why the mainstream media has strict orders to NEVER discuss the mechanics of the banking system -- unless they are prepared to lose their special privileges.

In FIAT EMPIRE you will discover why experts agree the Fed is a banking cartel that benefits mainly Wall Street bankers and their corporate clients as well as a Congress that would rather increase the national debt than raise taxes. Find out how the media facilitates the partnership between the Fed and Congress and why it fails to fully disclose what's going on. Lastly, find out how the Federal Reserve Member Banks are owned and controlled by an elite group of insiders that use debt-based, fractional reserve money to fund their fascist agenda by moving the United States further from its founding principles towards endless bailouts, bankruptcy, cultural Marxism and world government.

 

[sealybobo]

The Supreme Court and I seem to be at odds quite a bit. However, the Constitution does not authorize a central bank and it states that only gold and silver may be legal tender. Therefore, a central bank and fiat currency are both unconstitutional.

Well, I'd suggest that where you and the Court are at odds... the Court wins. You can disagree with decisions... you can curse the day the court was created... but nonetheless, is what it is and the Court is the final arbiter of constitutionality (something I had to swallow after Bush v Gore).

Congress is given the power to "coin money". I'd think that means paper, too. The Constitution has never been as literally interpreted as you might wish. And Congress always has the right to regulate commerce and do what is "necessary and proper".

I think you'd lose on this one too.

I'm well aware of the Court's power and my lack thereof to make the final call on what is constitutional.

I got this from Ron Paul. PS. Did you hear Kramer last night on the Daily Show? You guys mock the Daily Show, yet it is the only place we seem to get the truth. Liberal Media my ass.

Right now, you and I are seeing the worst plundering of a nation’s wealth in the history of civilization – all led by the out of control Federal Reserve.

If you and I don’t act today, I’m afraid this crisis will end with the economic ruin of every man, woman and child in the United States.

Just think about the scope of the problem for a minute: The Fed pumps trillions of dollars in fiat currency into a system already overloaded by the massive amount of dollars committed to the economic bailouts in recent months.

This TOTALS:

More than the socialist New Deal...
More than the entire Iraq debacle...
More than the 1980’s savings and loan mess...
More than the Korean War...

COMBINED.

Where will it all end?

It’s time you and I put a stop to an out of control Federal Reserve. And Ron Paul has a bill before Congress to do just that.

That’s why it’s vital you fill out your personal "Audit the Fed" petition in support of Congressman Paul’s bill.

Today, $9.7 TRILLION in taxpayer dollars in bailouts and loans have been agreed to by Congress, the Bush and Obama Treasury Departments, and the Federal Reserve.

Poll after poll shows the American people are fed up and are ready for fresh leadership to make their voices heard in Washington.

That means it’s a perfect time to unleash the Ron Paul R3VOLUTION on the out of control Fed!

Please complete this petition urging your Congressman to cosponsor and a seek roll-call vote on Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed Bill -- the first step toward ENDING THE FEDERAL RESERVE once and for all!

As I know you’re aware, the Federal Reserve’s inner-workings are shrouded in secrecy, and their meetings are off-limits to the public.

Just recently, the Federal Reserve told Congress “NO WAY” when asked to account for TWO TRILLION DOLLARS in taxpayer-backed loans!

Well, why do you think they refused?

They know coming clean with Congress and the American people on how they doled out those two TRILLION dollars would result in an anti-Fed firestorm.

So can you imagine the impact of a full-scale audit?

You and I will finally be able to show the American people that the Federal Reserve System leads to:

*** Constant economic crises -- the housing crisis and the resulting chaos is just one example of an economic bubble created by centrally-planned interest rates and money manipulation;

*** The destruction of the middle class -- as fuel, food, housing, medical care and education costs soar, everyone who is NOT on the government dole is forced to make do with less as the value of their money slowly decreases;

*** Currency destruction -- history shows us that riots, violence and full-scale police states can result when people finally realize fiat money isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on and REFUSE to accept it.

And unless you and I do end the madness in Washington, D.C., we may be closer than we’d like to think to learning that history lesson first hand -- right here on the streets of our towns and cities.

That’s why your commitment to helping the Campaign for Liberty fight this battle is so vital.

Just a few months ago, there was no chance of passing any legislation like Ron Paul’s Audit-the-Fed Bill.

So I guess there has been one “CHANGE.”

But with the piling up of trillions of dollars in out of control “bailouts” of Wall Street and international bankers, even many politicians in Washington, D.C. want to show you they’re “being responsible”.

What better way for Congress to do this than by auditing the Federal Reserve to account for the trillions stolen from the U.S. taxpayers?

There will be many battles you and I must fight over the coming months to take back our country. But this one is set to rage in Congress in just a few short weeks.

And, it’s a bill we CAN pass!

You see, after regulating, taxing, spending, borrowing and printing us into what looks like the worst recession in decades, establishment politicians and power brokers are assuring us they are working hard to “fix” our economic woes.

So they want to do something (anything) to show you they care.

That’s why Dr. Paul’s bill is positioned to move forward this year.

And since very few politicians understand the Federal Reserve System, they do not understand the threat this bill poses to the borrow-and-spend system they continually vote for.

And even if Ron Paul’s Audit-the-Fed Bill is defeated, just forcing a vote is a win/win situation.

Can you imagine how many politicians will pay the price at the ballot box in 2010 when you and I tell the American people their Congressman somehow lost trillions of taxpayer dollars and voted against even looking for the money?

Of course, getting a vote won’t be easy, but you know just as well as I do that Ron Paul has proven he’s not afraid of a fight.

Now, we just need to show Congress that the American people demand action on Ron Paul’s Audit-the-Fed Bill. Here’s how we plan to do that:

First, we’re already busy contacting up to five million activists nationwide through mail, phones and e-mail to generate petitions to the U.S. Congress demanding action on the bill.

But that’s just the beginning.

We’ll work the talk radio stations and grant local media interviews to further turn up the pressure on Congress. And, of course, Ron Paul supporters will own the meet-up groups and social networking sites that first launched our R3volution.

And a few days before the vote, if we have the resources, we’d also like to run hard-hitting targeted radio, TV and newspaper ads.

This entire program is designed to send one, CLEAR message to Congress -- Any politician who votes against the Federal Reserve Audit should look for another job.

But such a massive effort won’t be easy -- or cheap.

So, along with your petition, I also hope you’ll agree to make a contribution of $250, $100, or $50 to the Campaign for Liberty.

I know times are hard, but if we don’t take action, the America we see in just a few years could look much different than the one we see today.

So please, fill out your petition and give a generous contribution of $250, $100, or $50 to the Campaign for Liberty IMMEDIATELY.

Please don’t just ignore this email.

Can I count on you to join the fight to ultimately END THE FED by making a generous contribution of $250, $100, $50 -- or whatever you can afford to the Campaign for Liberty?

Sincerely,

John F. Tate
President

P.S. Please fill out this petition DEMANDING your Congressman cosponsor and seek a roll-call vote on Ron Paul’s Audit-the-Fed Bill TODAY!

 

[editec]

RestrUCture the FEDERAL RESERVE system.

Make it a truly national bank.

WHAT WE HAVE NOW SUCKS WIND.

 

[sealybobo]

RestrUCture the FEDERAL RESERVE system.

Make it a truly national bank.

WHAT WE HAVE NOW SUCKS WIND.

Private Bankers shouldn't control/run it. When they do, they control/run the entire country.

Now look at what they did. They took the country down with bundled up bad loans (toxic they call them), and they made a fortune along the way, (where did that money go? no one knows?) then we bailed them out, they gave themselves billions in bonus', they go to the Caymen islands for retreats, QUARTERLY, and the GOP wrote them tax laws that gave them tax breaks that run until 2011? And, I bet you that these rich bankers have their money over in switzerland ala that UBS scandal

Are we really this stupid?

 

[sealybobo]

RestrUCture the FEDERAL RESERVE system.

Make it a truly national bank.

WHAT WE HAVE NOW SUCKS WIND.

Acting to avert a possible financial crisis worldwide, the U.S. Federal Reserve Board reversed course Tuesday and agreed to an $85 billion bailout that would give the U.S. government an ownership stake in the troubled insurance giant American International Group.

The decision, announced by the Fed only two weeks after the Treasury Department took over the quasi-government mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is the most radical intervention in private business in the central bank's history.

With time running out after AIG failed to get a bank loan to avoid bankruptcy, Treasury Secterary Henry Paulson Jr. and the Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke convened a meeting with House and Senate leaders on Capitol Hill at about 6:30 p.m. Tuesday to explain the rescue plan.

They emerged just after 7:30 p.m. with Paulson and Bernanke looking grim but top lawmakers generally expressing support for the plan. But the bailout is likely to prove controversial, because it effectively puts taxpayer money at risk while protecting bad investments made by AIG and other institutions does business with.

What frightened Fed and Treasury officials was not simply the prospect of another giant corporate bankruptcy, but AIG's role as an enormous provider of financial insurance, which effectively requires it cover losses suffered by other institutions in the instance of defaults of securities that they have purchased. That means AIG is potentially on the hook for securities that were once considered safe.

Fed rescues AIG with $85 billion loan for 80% stake - International Herald Tribune

 

[editec]

We let the private marketeers gain a dominant role in our economy and natureally their greed insured that they'd screw us to make themselves richer.

We've seen this before, and we'll see it again.

Power corrupts be it market power or government power, the end game is always the same.

I blame it on original sin, personally.

It's the bad monkey syndrome.

 

[sealybobo]

We let the private marketeers gain a dominant role in our economy and natureally their greed insured that they'd screw us to make themselves richer.

We've seen this before, and we'll see it again.

Power corrupts be it market power or government power, the end game is always the same.

I blame it on original sin, personally.

It's the bad monkey syndrome.

I was looking for something else and I stumbled onto this, from the Clinton years.

Boy, the more I learn, the more I understand that the Democrats in fact are a much better party than the Republicans.

For example, healthcare. Sure Hillary didn't get her healthcare reform passed, but at least she tried. And the reason she didn't succeed is because of Corporate America and the GOP.

So we talk about taking back the Federal Reserve. I don't know if Bill Clinton wanted to go that far with this, but he sure was trying to deal with these Robber Baron's.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/26/b...nce/Times Topics/Subjects/B/Banks and Banking

In a closed meeting with the Federal Reserve's top officials, a dozen of the nation's most powerful bankers have vowed to back the Fed in opposing the Clinton Administration's plan for centralizing bank regulation.

The chairmen of big banks in each of the Fed's 12 regional districts endorsed instead the Fed's plan to take over the bank-supervision role of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, according to a copy of the meeting's official summary.

 

[sealybobo]

God knows what happened in the 8 years Bush was in office. And Republicans dare blame Carter/Clinton? That's because they know that none of us know 100 certain what the truth really is.

The bank executives' position is the latest setback for the Treasury Department's proposal to create a giant Federal Banking Commission that would absorb most of the financial regulatory roles of the Fed, the F.D.I.C. and the Treasury. The Treasury proposal has met with hostility from Congressional Republicans and muted support at best from Congressional Democrats.

But Treasury officials said today that they had no intention of backing away from their plan, setting the stage for a nasty public battle between the Fed and the Treasury next week. Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen is scheduled to testify on Tuesday before the Senate Banking Committee and Alan Greenspan, the Fed chairman, is to testify on Wednesday. A Powerful Panel

The Federal Advisory Council, a Congressionally mandated group of prominent bankers, meets with the Federal Reserve's top officials once each quarter at a closed meeting led by Mr. Greenspan. The council concluded when it met on Feb. 13 and 14 that "the Federal Reserve proposal provides for a regulatory option that is viewed

 

[editec]

Our more modern admins were carefully sifted to be sure there weren't going to be any "mavericks" who might be willing to step out of line.

Back in the day you had a shot, but now, you're automatically screwed with whoever the two main candidates are.

I'll never vote for anyone who doesn't challenge the Fed.

Obama has floated the idea that he might Nationalize the Banks. Chris Dodd too. Did you ever hear a Republican besides Ron Paul say it? No way. They will never sell out the bankers. The Democrats might. But not until more people wake up.

I found this:

Are you aware that the U.S. Constitution states that only Congress has the authority to create money; this money must be backed by gold and silver; and "bills of credit," also known as Federal Reserve Notes, are illegal under Article I?

Are you aware that our government is violating all of these stipulations at this time? The Federal Reserve System is a quasi-private, government-sanctioned banking cartel that issues "bills of credit" on behalf of Congress. This banking system, in violation of the U.S. Constitution, creates endless amounts of paper currency out of thin air and then lends it to the government creating the national debt. Behind-the-scenes planners of the Federal Reserve System knew from day-one that they would have to lobby to instate an income tax to ensure interest payments on the national debt, thus the Fed and the Income Tax were both created in the same year, 1913.

Most citizens aren't aware that every dollar that comes into existence does so as a dollar of debt because the entire money supply of the United States is no longer backed by gold or silver, but DEBT. Is it any wonder we are now in a "credit crises"? We now live in a nation so overwhelmed by public and private debt, it will be impossible to pay it all off.

Due to the mathematics of principle and interest creation under "fractional reserve banking" as codified and practiced by the Federal

They're not talking about nationalizing the banks in the same way that you think Ron Paul wants to "nationalize" the Fed, sealy. For one, they're not talking about the Federal Reserve at all. They'll leave the Fed exactly as it is and allow it to continue it's policies. They're talking about having the government take over private banks, which is unconstitutional and would be bad for the economy.

If they eliminate the FED there won't BE any private banks (well some perhaps but not many).

Now unless the Treasury decides to do the same passthrough benefit to banks (and let them lend money to citizens and businesses) the USA doesn't really need these private banks.

The US government should be the LENDER of US specie.

Why we gave that franchise to private banks I will never really understand.

It simply AMAZES ME, that most of you have more faith in the goodwill of private banks than you do in the goodwill of your own government.

Do any of YOU get to vote on who runs CITIBANK?

Of course not.

Yet you trust CITIBANK (and the like) to run your economy.

How have they done of late?

 

[sealybobo]

Obama has floated the idea that he might Nationalize the Banks. Chris Dodd too. Did you ever hear a Republican besides Ron Paul say it? No way. They will never sell out the bankers. The Democrats might. But not until more people wake up.

I found this:

Are you aware that the U.S. Constitution states that only Congress has the authority to create money; this money must be backed by gold and silver; and "bills of credit," also known as Federal Reserve Notes, are illegal under Article I?

Are you aware that our government is violating all of these stipulations at this time? The Federal Reserve System is a quasi-private, government-sanctioned banking cartel that issues "bills of credit" on behalf of Congress. This banking system, in violation of the U.S. Constitution, creates endless amounts of paper currency out of thin air and then lends it to the government creating the national debt. Behind-the-scenes planners of the Federal Reserve System knew from day-one that they would have to lobby to instate an income tax to ensure interest payments on the national debt, thus the Fed and the Income Tax were both created in the same year, 1913.

Most citizens aren't aware that every dollar that comes into existence does so as a dollar of debt because the entire money supply of the United States is no longer backed by gold or silver, but DEBT. Is it any wonder we are now in a "credit crises"? We now live in a nation so overwhelmed by public and private debt, it will be impossible to pay it all off.

Due to the mathematics of principle and interest creation under "fractional reserve banking" as codified and practiced by the Federal

They're not talking about nationalizing the banks in the same way that you think Ron Paul wants to "nationalize" the Fed, sealy. For one, they're not talking about the Federal Reserve at all. They'll leave the Fed exactly as it is and allow it to continue it's policies. They're talking about having the government take over private banks, which is unconstitutional and would be bad for the economy.

If they eliminate the FED there won't BE any private banks (well some perhaps but not many).

Now unless the Treasury decides to do the same passthrough benefit to banks (and let them lend money to citizens and businesses) the USA doesn't really need these private banks.

The US government should be the LENDER of US specie.

Why we gave that franchise to private banks I will never really understand.

It simply AMAZES ME, that most of you have more faith in the goodwill of private banks than you do in the goodwill of your own government.

Do any of YOU get to vote on who runs CITIBANK?

Of course not.

Yet you trust CITIBANK (and the like) to run your economy.

How have they done of late?

This morning on liberal talk radio, they were talking about this:

The Bank of North Dakota (BND) is a state-owned and -run financial institution based in Bismarck, North Dakota. Under state law the bank is the State of North Dakota doing business as the Bank of North Dakota.

All state and local government agencies are required to place their funds in the bank. Other entities may also open accounts at the Bank; however, BND offers fewer retail services than other institutions, and has only one office, limiting its competitiveness in consumer banking.

Instead, BND has taken a role more akin to a central bank, and has many functions, such as check clearing, that might be expected from a branch office of the Federal Reserve. The Bank does have an account with the Federal Reserve Bank, but it is not insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, instead being guaranteed by the State of North Dakota itself.

BND also guarantees student loans (through its Student Loans of North Dakota division), business development loans, and state and municipal bonds.

Though initially conceived by Non-Partisan League populists as a credit union-style institution to free the farmers of the state from predatory lenders, the Bank's functions were largely neutered by the time of its inception by the business-backed Independent Voters Association. The recall of NPL Governor Lynn Frazier effectively ended the initial plan, with BND taking a more conservative central banking role in state finance. The current president and CEO is Eric Hardmeyer.

The Bank of North Dakota is the only state-owned facility of its type in the nation.


Not a bad idea, huh? This is one of the only states in the US not hurting.

 

[editec]

FYI, Sealy.

You're wrong in thinking that the consitutional prohibits the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT printing money that is not back by gold or silver.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

Notice that is says NOTHING about the nature of that coined money. It can be made of anything and backed by nothing.

Perhaps what you ARE thinking of is the following limitation on the STATES?

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts;

So the STATES cannot tender currency that is not made of gold or solver, but the FEDS can.

Your affection for gold based currency, I will repeat, is an idea which will not, as far as I can tell, work in a modern society. Such a system would assure us of continuous DEFLATION.

It would work in a society which essantially is status quo, because, after all, then the amount of currency we'd need in circulation to conduct that economy would remain essantially the same.

 

[sealybobo]

Obama has floated the idea that he might Nationalize the Banks. Chris Dodd too. Did you ever hear a Republican besides Ron Paul say it? No way. They will never sell out the bankers. The Democrats might. But not until more people wake up.

I found this:

Are you aware that the U.S. Constitution states that only Congress has the authority to create money; this money must be backed by gold and silver; and "bills of credit," also known as Federal Reserve Notes, are illegal under Article I?

Are you aware that our government is violating all of these stipulations at this time? The Federal Reserve System is a quasi-private, government-sanctioned banking cartel that issues "bills of credit" on behalf of Congress. This banking system, in violation of the U.S. Constitution, creates endless amounts of paper currency out of thin air and then lends it to the government creating the national debt. Behind-the-scenes planners of the Federal Reserve System knew from day-one that they would have to lobby to instate an income tax to ensure interest payments on the national debt, thus the Fed and the Income Tax were both created in the same year, 1913.

Most citizens aren't aware that every dollar that comes into existence does so as a dollar of debt because the entire money supply of the United States is no longer backed by gold or silver, but DEBT. Is it any wonder we are now in a "credit crises"? We now live in a nation so overwhelmed by public and private debt, it will be impossible to pay it all off.

Due to the mathematics of principle and interest creation under "fractional reserve banking" as codified and practiced by the Federal

They're not talking about nationalizing the banks in the same way that you think Ron Paul wants to "nationalize" the Fed, sealy. For one, they're not talking about the Federal Reserve at all. They'll leave the Fed exactly as it is and allow it to continue it's policies. They're talking about having the government take over private banks, which is unconstitutional and would be bad for the economy.

If they eliminate the FED there won't BE any private banks (well some perhaps but not many).

Now unless the Treasury decides to do the same passthrough benefit to banks (and let them lend money to citizens and businesses) the USA doesn't really need these private banks.

The US government should be the LENDER of US specie.

Why we gave that franchise to private banks I will never really understand.

It simply AMAZES ME, that most of you have more faith in the goodwill of private banks than you do in the goodwill of your own government.

Do any of YOU get to vote on who runs CITIBANK?

Of course not.

Yet you trust CITIBANK (and the like) to run your economy.

How have they done of late?

Check this out:

12 Bankers Back Fed On Powers - The New York Times

Clinton even tried to reign in the Federal Reserve.

I get mad at Bill Clinton because he gave into the GOP too much and he was a very centrist president, but maybe thats all that we can expect from our leaders if the general public refuses to brighten up.

If I were a politician, and my constituents didn't get it that the entire system is corrupt, I wouldn't risk my career and reputation to fix what is wrong.

Right now most people think it is the politicians that are the problem, which means they haven't figured it out yet that these politicians are not acting on their own.

If they are corrupt, look at who corrupted them. There's the real criminals.

 

[sealybobo]

FYI, Sealy.

You're wrong in thinking that the consitutional prohibits the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT printing money that is not back by gold or silver.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

Notice that is says NOTHING about the nature of that coined money. It can be made of anything and backed by nothing.

Perhaps what you ARE thinking of is the following limitation on the STATES?

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts;

So the STATES cannot tender currency that is not made of gold or solver, but the FEDS can.

Your affection for gold based currency, I will repeat, is an idea which will not, as far as I can tell, work in a modern society. Such a system would assure us of continuous DEFLATION.

It would work in a society which essantially is status quo, because, after all, then the amount of currency we'd need in circulation to conduct that economy would remain essantially the same.

I never even thought much about these issues. I don't know if we can ever get back to the gold standard. All I want is to take back what is ours. The rich bankers are too powerful.

I just want our government to be the Federal Reserve. I don't want private bankers calling all the shots anymore.

 

[editec]

I never even thought much about these issues. I don't know if we can ever get back to the gold standard. All I want is to take back what is ours. The rich bankers are too powerful.

I just want our government to be the Federal Reserve. I don't want private bankers calling all the shots anymore.

Understood and I quite agree with you about that.

But the GOLD STANDARD is a plan that I simply cannot see working to the advantage of ANYONE but the stupendously wealthy, Sealy.

How much fucking gold do YOU have sitting in your vaults?

None right?

The ONLY people who are sane who want a GOLD STANDARD have LOTS of it.

YOu gotta understand, dude, money is all FIAT.

FIAT money isn't necessarily a bad thing UNLESS we give the right to issue fiat money to PRIVATE INTERESTS WHO USE IT TO THEIR ADVANTAGE AND OUR DISADVANTAGE.

If you think the American people are screwed now, you need to read about how badly screwed they were BEFORE when we WERE ON A GOLD STANDARD.

When people keep producing and they want to exchange goods they need LEGAL TENDER to do so.

there is no way in hell that we can balance the production of a modern society against the limited amount of gold that exists in the world.

That would DESTROY our economy, not fix it.

It would solve one problem (the private banks issuing too much money) and replace that problem with one that is even WORSE