A Woman's Place

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by brneyedgrl80, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. brneyedgrl80
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    brneyedgrl80 Member

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    I'm just wondering what you guys think of this:

    A woman's place is to wait and listen, says the Vatican

    John Hooper in Rome and Jo Revill
    Sunday August 1, 2004
    The Observer

    The Vatican yesterday depicted what it claimed were women's characteristic traits: 'Listening, welcoming, humility, faithfulness, praise and waiting.'
    In its most important statement on the role of women in almost a decade, the Roman Catholic Church said these virtues of the Virgin Mary were ones that women displayed 'with particular intensity and naturalness'.

    The 37-page statement, published in full yesterday, was written by the Pope's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. As a statement of official doctrine, it would have been read, and very likely amended, by the Pope himself before publication.

    The document, which will prompt a fierce debate about the attributes of women, added: 'Although a certain type of feminist rhetoric makes demands "for ourselves", women preserve the deep intuition of the goodness in their lives of those actions that elicit life, and contribute to the growth and protection [of others]. This intuition is linked to women's physical capacity to give life. Whether lived out or remaining potential, this capacity is a reality that structures the female personality in a profound way.'

    In his 'Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Collaboration of Men and Women in the Church and in the World', Ratzinger takes aim at 'currents of thought that are often at variance with the authentic advancement of women'. Chief among these is a tendency to 'emphasise strongly, conditions of subordination in order to give rise to antagonism'.

    It implied that 'women, in order to be themselves, must make themselves the adversaries of men'. Such confrontational thinking was 'leading to harmful confusion ... which has its most immediate and lethal effects in the structure of the family'.

    Gender war also encouraged a perilous blurring of the distinctions. 'To avoid the domination of one sex or the other, their differences tend to be denied, viewed as mere effects of historical and cultural conditioning.'

    Such a view ignored qualities that arose from a woman's unique ability to give birth. This 'allows her to acquire maturity very quickly, and gives a sense of the seriousness of life and of its responsibilities. A sense and a respect for what is concrete develop in her, opposed to abstractions which are so often fatal for the existence of individuals and society,' says the first high-level pronouncement on gender issues since the Pope's 1995 'Letter to Women'.

    Ratzinger uses the document to argue that, because they have something unique to contribute, 'women should be present in the world of work and in the organisation of society'.

    Read more here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,12272,1273859,00.html
     
  2. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    or whomever...

    I can't say the church and I will ever see eye to eye. However, on the concept that women see life differently then men, at least partially because of plumbing, I'll have to agree. It accounts for our seeing 'men' differently than their 'seeing' women also, I would contend. Some men see, a 'Madonna', while I know too many women that see men as a 'temptor'.

    Perhaps it's a factor of my socioeconomic group, but I know few women that view their children as a 'deduction', but too many men!

    How's that for starting a kerfuffle? :dance:
     
  3. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    I hope the women who are reading and replying to this thread have already finished ironing their man's clothes, cleaning the house - repairs if needed, and are simply waiting for the roast to finish in the crock pot before he gets home.

    :)
     
  4. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    WTF is an iron? At least pertaining to a human above the age of 10? Kick your butt, or find someone who will, from here to there...
     
  5. winston churchi
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    winston churchi Member

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    I am laughing.

    Don't forget to add that she open the door for him when he arrives, wearing her apron of course...take his shoes off and replace them with slippers...give him his pipe and listen to his war stories - even though the only war he was a part of was his the weight of fat a**.
    I don't think I let anything out. Hope the V. approves.
     
  6. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

    You both die!
     
  7. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    Not having read the whole thing, it sounds like the Catholic church is pointing out the differences in the temperments of men and women. You can read much the same thing in books like Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, without the religious overtones.

    The point is that there are differences between the sexes in the way that we are wired. To deny that is ridiculous; to acknowledge and work to complement each other with our strengths is wise.
     
  8. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    Seems to me that the Catholic church today is a classic example of the consequences of putting dogma first and the message second.
     
  9. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Assuming I'm the only Catholic, knowing I'm the only woman. The Vatican has abandoned us. I'm not looking for a 'man's role, well maybe, but not that they would care about, still and all, ' :blowup: ground under foot of? I don't think so...'
     
  10. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    Well now I didn't say anything about being ground under foot. Yeeesh.

    But the Vatican is comprised of a bunch of old geezers who are mired neck deep in chauvinism. All you have to do is read the statement contained in the basic post on this thread. Catholicism at the Vatican is simply another form of bureaurocracy. And you know what a pleasure dealing with bureaurocrats can be.

    If Catholicism updates its views on women, it won't be because the Vatican led the effort. It will be because they have been dragged kicking and screaming.
     

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