A Tale Of Two Autos....

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PoliticalChic, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    1 "(Reuters) - General Motors Co sold a record number of Chevrolet Volt sedans in August — but that probably isn't a good thing for the automaker's bottom line.

    2. Nearly two years after the introduction of the path-breaking plug-in hybrid, GM is still losing as much as $49,000 on each Volt it builds, according to estimates provided to Reuters by industry analysts and manufacturing experts.

    3. ...There are some Americans paying just $5,050 to drive around for two years in a vehicle that cost as much as $89,000 to produce.

    4. GM is still years away from making money on the Volt, which will soon face new competitors from Ford, Honda and others. GM's basic problem is that "the Volt is over-engineered and over-priced," said Dennis Virag, president of the Michigan-based Automotive Consulting Group.

    5. But the Volt's steep $39,995 base price and its complex technology — the car uses expensive lithium-polymer batteries, sophisticated electronics and an electric motor combined with a gasoline engine — have kept many prospective buyers away from Chevy showrooms.

    6. ...the technical challenges of ownership, mainly related to charging the battery. Plug-in hybrids such as the Volt still take hours to fully charge the batteries -...

    7. The lack of interest in the car has prevented GM from coming close to its early, optimistic sales projections."
    Insight: GM's Volt - The ugly math of low sales, high costs | Reuters


    And....let's see what could have been learned from a study of history....


    8. The Trabant is an automobile that was produced by former East German auto maker VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau in Zwickau, Sachsen. It was the most common vehicle in East Germany, and was also exported to countries both inside and outside the communist bloc. The main selling point was that it had room for four adults and luggage in a compact, light and durable shell. Despite its mediocre performance and smoky two-stroke engine, the car is regarded with derisive affection as a symbol of the failed former East Germany and of the fall of communism (in former West Germany, as many East Germans streamed into West Berlin and West Germany in their Trabants after the opening of the Berlin Wall in 1989). For advocates of capitalism it is often cited as an example of the disadvantages of centralized planning as even refueling the car required lifting the hood, filling the tank with gasoline (only 24 litres[1]), then adding two-stroke oil and shaking it back and forth to mix. It was in production without any significant changes for nearly 30 years with 3,096,099 Trabants produced in total.
    Trabant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    9. ....the man who goes to buy a car in Moscow, pays for it, and is told by the salesman that he can collect it on a particular date in 10 years' time. The buyer thinks for a moment and then asks: 'Morning or afternoon?' The salesman, astonished by the question, asks: 'What difference does it make?' And the buyer answers: 'Well, the plumber is coming in the morning.'


    10. Stil think it's a good idea for the brilliant folks in government to be picking the winners and losers in the economy?

    This is why this post belongs in politics rather than economy or technology.

    This is what Obama supporters voted for.
     
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  2. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Now PC, you really are behind the times. Ford has a hybrid plugin set to go on sale. The C-Max Energi, 20 miles as an ev, 47/47 as a hybrid. Already exceeds the 54.5 mpg mandate for 2025.
     
  3. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Ford took no bailouts.
     
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  4. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    47 MPG isn't nearly enough to justify a new car when you consider just how expensive the new All Electric cars are. And as PC pointed out, government subsidies push the cost even higher because WE pay the taxes for that!

    My wife and I just made a trip to Boston, about 880 miles round trip, in her 5 year old Toyota Yaris. Setting the cruise control to 65 we got an average of 42 miles to the gallon. 4 cylinder, fuel injected, nothing fancy. And this "technology" has been around for at least 30 years.

    My 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 V-8 gets about 18 MPG on a good day. If I were to trade that truck in for a Prius you know how long it would take (in fuel savings) to pay off the Prius?

    27 years.

    Who the f*ck owns a car for that long? Almost no one.
     
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  5. francoHFW
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    francoHFW Platinum Member

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    Many thanks to Pubs for fear mongering and politicizing the Volt, stopped sales for many months.What happened to each car costing 278k? And all those fires.? What a pile of Pubcrappe, as always. Now selling MORE than hoped....Assume the position, a-hole Pubs and silly dupes...
     
  6. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    PC, you always like to crow about American exceptionalism. In reality, you are as anti-American as it gets. You folks on the right like to crow about the 'risk takers' Well PC meet a risk taker...General Motors.

    And if you believe for a moment the governments of Japan, Korea and China don't pick winners and losers, you are naive. Those governments always pick their home manufacturers, and use strategies like huge subsidies to help their manufacturers capture markets and try to put American companies out of business. Japan's universal health care lowers the manufacturing costs of their car makers to around $200 per vehicle. American manufactures spend $1500 per vehicle on health care costs.

    From your article...

    Still, as the company wrestles with how to drive down costs and increase showroom traffic, Parks said the Volt is an important car for GM in other respects.

    "It wasn't conceived as a way to make tons of money," he said. "It was a big dip in the technology pool for GM. We've learned a boatload of stuff that we're deploying on other models," Parks said. Those include the Cruze and such future cars as the 2014 Cadillac ELR hybrid.

    The same risky strategy — gambling on relatively untested technology — drove massive investments by Toyota Motor Corp in the Prius hybrid and Nissan Motor Co in the Leaf electric car.

    Toyota said it now makes a profit on the Prius, which was introduced in the United States in 2000 and is now in its third generation. Sales of the Prius hybrid, which comes in four different versions priced as low as $19,745, have almost doubled so far this year to 164,408.

    Other such vehicles haven't done nearly as well. Nissan's pure-electric Leaf, which debuted at the same time as the Volt and retails for $36,050, has sold just 4,228 this year, while the Honda Insight, which has the lowest starting price of any hybrid in the U.S. at $19,290, has sales this year of only 4,801. The Mitsubishi i, an even smaller electric car priced from $29,975, is in even worse shape, with only 403 sales.

    Toyota's unveiling of the original Prius caught U.S. automakers off guard. GM, then under the leadership of Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz, decided it needed a "leapfrog" product to tackle Toyota and unveiled the Volt concept to considerable fanfare at the 2007 Detroit auto show.

    The car entered production in the fall of 2010 as the first U.S. gasoline-electric hybrid that could be recharged by plugging the car into any electrical outlet. The Obama administration, which engineered a $50-billion taxpayer rescue of GM from bankruptcy in 2009 and has provided more than $5 billion in subsidies for green-car development, praised the Volt as an example of the country's commitment to building more fuel-efficient cars.

    NEXT-GENERATION CAR

    GM's investment in the Volt has so far been a fraction of the $5 billion that Nissan said it is spending to develop and tool global production of the Leaf and its associated technologies and the reported $10 billion or more that Toyota has plowed into the Prius and various derivatives over the past decade.
     
  7. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    No it COULDN'T be the average family taking a look at it and realizing it's not worth it right? No way.
     
  8. Mad Scientist
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    Both the US and Japan love to take risks... with the Taxpayers money.

    That's why the respective economies are stagnant and/or failing.
     
  9. Liberal
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    Liberal Libruhl! Libruhl!

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    Haha, the "evil" Volt!

    The Volt was in planning/proto since about 2006, and was the base for Voltec drive system that GM was bent on using for all of their future electric vehicles...

    Yeah, that was really Obama's policy shining though, long before he was ever POTUS.

    :lol::lol:
     
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  10. blastoff
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    blastoff Undocumented Reg. User

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    The Volt's problem is very simple.

    Based on its cost and perceived benefits, people willing to spend that amount of money are buying something else instead.

    Why GM didn't learn this from market research prior to investing countless millions of dollars in R&D and factory retooling for production tells you all you need to know about their inept management.

    Had they reorganized under normal bankruptcy proceedings they'd be far better positioned today for the future.
     
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