A Step Closer to Death Panels

[bigrebnc1775]

Exactly, and no one in Amerca can be denied healthcare at least they could not before obamacare.

Is healthcare a right?

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor. But now we have obamacare that oath doesn't work that way anymore.

 

[xotoxi]

Exactly, and no one in Amerca can be denied healthcare at least they could not before obamacare.

Is healthcare a right?

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor. But now we have obamacare that oath doesn't work that way anymore.

Technically, that is not correct. Doctors can refuse to provide medical care...and besides the oath is not legally binding, but rather an ethical oath. If they violate it, they may lose their state certification.

The place where you cannot be denied treatment is with hospital and ambulances based on the EMTALA law, which is a Federal Law.

So, if the Federal government can ensure you emergency medical care regardless of your ability to pay, and mandates that hospitals and ambulances perform services regardless of payment, then essentially the Federal government is forcing a business to give services for free.

Does that bother you at all?

 

[uscitizen]

Exactly, and no one in Amerca can be denied healthcare at least they could not before obamacare.

Is healthcare a right?

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor. But now we have obamacare that oath doesn't work that way anymore.

Wrongo, only emergency rooms are required to give emergency care.
A DR in a private office can refuse anyone he wants.
And emergency room care is only for immediate problems no maintenance, etc.

Of course anyone can sue anyone they want, I could sue you for being stupit if I so chose

j/k on the suing you.... mostly.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is healthcare a right?

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor. But now we have obamacare that oath doesn't work that way anymore.

Wrongo, only emergency rooms are required to give emergency care.
A DR in a private office can refuse anyone he wants.
And emergency room care is only for immediate problems no maintenance, etc.

Of course anyone can sue anyone they want, I could sue you for being stupit if I so chose

j/k on the suing you.... mostly.

Thats correct they cannot release anyone until they are out of danger. So there is no denial of healthcare are there?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is healthcare a right?

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor. But now we have obamacare that oath doesn't work that way anymore.

Technically, that is not correct. Doctors can refuse to provide medical care...and besides the oath is not legally binding, but rather an ethical oath. If they violate it, they may lose their state certification.

The place where you cannot be denied treatment is with hospital and ambulances based on the EMTALA law, which is a Federal Law.

So, if the Federal government can ensure you emergency medical care regardless of your ability to pay, and mandates that hospitals and ambulances perform services regardless of payment, then essentially the Federal government is forcing a business to give services for free.

Does that bother you at all?

`Nope.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art—if they desire to learn it—without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

NOVA | Doctors' Diaries | The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version | PBS

 

[xotoxi]

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor. But now we have obamacare that oath doesn't work that way anymore.

Technically, that is not correct. Doctors can refuse to provide medical care...and besides the oath is not legally binding, but rather an ethical oath. If they violate it, they may lose their state certification.

The place where you cannot be denied treatment is with hospital and ambulances based on the EMTALA law, which is a Federal Law.

So, if the Federal government can ensure you emergency medical care regardless of your ability to pay, and mandates that hospitals and ambulances perform services regardless of payment, then essentially the Federal government is forcing a business to give services for free.

Does that bother you at all?

`Nope.

You don't mind that a business is Federally mandated to give free service?

Would you have an issue if Congress forced Meineke to replace mufflers on all cars regardless of the owner's ability to pay?

 

[xotoxi]

The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art—if they desire to learn it—without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

NOVA | Doctors' Diaries | The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version | PBS

That's an oath, not a law.

And this is the one that is currently used:

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

I don't see anything about "I will perform medical services for free"

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art—if they desire to learn it—without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

NOVA | Doctors' Diaries | The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version | PBS

That's an oath, not a law.

And this is the one that is currently used:

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

I don't see anything about "I will perform medical services for free"

The oath is law to a physician, it's either all or nothing. or should they cherry pick the oath. lets say give out patient infoirmation?

 

[xotoxi]

The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art—if they desire to learn it—without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

NOVA | Doctors' Diaries | The Hippocratic Oath: Classical Version | PBS

That's an oath, not a law.

And this is the one that is currently used:

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

I don't see anything about "I will perform medical services for free"

The oath is law to a physician, it's either all or nothing. or should they cherry pick the oath. lets say give out patient infoirmation?

There are very strict federal laws preventing giving out patient information (HIPAA).

Let's just forget your massive FAIL attempt at using the oath to prove anything, and lets discuss the actual LAWS.

 

[uscitizen]

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor. But now we have obamacare that oath doesn't work that way anymore.

Wrongo, only emergency rooms are required to give emergency care.
A DR in a private office can refuse anyone he wants.
And emergency room care is only for immediate problems no maintenance, etc.

Of course anyone can sue anyone they want, I could sue you for being stupit if I so chose

j/k on the suing you.... mostly.

Thats correct they cannot release anyone until they are out of danger. So there is no denial of healthcare are there?

do you have to work hard at being so dense and pig headed?

 

[xotoxi]

Wrongo, only emergency rooms are required to give emergency care.
A DR in a private office can refuse anyone he wants.
And emergency room care is only for immediate problems no maintenance, etc.

Of course anyone can sue anyone they want, I could sue you for being stupit if I so chose

j/k on the suing you.... mostly.

Thats correct they cannot release anyone until they are out of danger. So there is no denial of healthcare are there?

do you have to work hard at being so dense and pig headed?

I would expect a conservative to say that it is wrong for the Federal government to force a business to perform services for free.

According to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, 55% of U.S. emergency care now goes uncompensated

http://www.acep.org/content.aspx?id=25932

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That's an oath, not a law.

And this is the one that is currently used:

I don't see anything about "I will perform medical services for free"

The oath is law to a physician, it's either all or nothing. or should they cherry pick the oath. lets say give out patient infoirmation?

There are very strict federal laws preventing giving out patient information (HIPAA).

Let's just forget your massive FAIL attempt at using the oath to prove anything, and lets discuss the actual LAWS.

Let's just forget that you over look the obvious. It may not say that a doctor will give care free of charge but whenit says
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.......
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings.........
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required


All is a requirment now how could they follow their oath and allow payment to get in the way?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Thats correct they cannot release anyone until they are out of danger. So there is no denial of healthcare are there?

do you have to work hard at being so dense and pig headed?

I would expect a conservative to say that it is wrong for the Federal government to force a business to perform services for free.

According to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, 55% of U.S. emergency care now goes uncompensated

The Uninsured: Access to Medical Care

If he doesn't take theoath then I would have a problem with anyone forcing him, but if he takes the oath I see no problem. And a oath should never be broken. Thats just my opinion.

 

[mattskramer]

Exactly, and no one in Amerca can be denied healthcare at least they could not before obamacare.

Is healthcare a right?

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor.

This only applies in emergency cases.

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. As a result of the act, patients needing emergency treatment can be discharged only under their own informed consent or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment.



http://www.physiciansnews.com/law/202.html

There are some circumstances when a physician can "fire" the patient in non-emergency situations. One such circumstance is the patient’s unwillingness or inability to pay.

 

[uscitizen]

An oath should never be broken?

LMAO all politicians take oaths and virtually all of them break them.

 

[boedicca]

You don't mind that a business is Federally mandated to give free service?

Would you have an issue if Congress forced Meineke to replace mufflers on all cars regardless of the owner's ability to pay?

Bingo.

And ObamaCare basically does this via price controls.

The individual mandate is the flip side of the same principle.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

an oath should never be broken?

Lmao all politicians take oaths and virtually all of them break them.

and your point? Do you take an oath lightly? I don't

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is healthcare a right?

You cannot be denied medical treatment if you go to the doctor they must render assistants or they can be sued. It's in thier oath they took before they became a doctor.

This only applies in emergency cases.

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. As a result of the act, patients needing emergency treatment can be discharged only under their own informed consent or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment.



When a physician may refuse to treat a patient

There are some circumstances when a physician can "fire" the patient in non-emergency situations. One such circumstance is the patient’s unwillingness or inability to pay.

So I ask one more time where is the denial?

Patients cannot face criminal prosecution for failure to pay, even if the patient came to the hospital aware of inability to pay. Hospitals and third-party agents may not threaten patients with prosecution as a means of scaring the patient into making payment. Patient can be prosecuted under existing federal, state, or local laws for providing false name, address, or other information to avoid payment, receiving bills, or to hide fugitive status.
A hospital may not perform a credit check on a patient either before, during, or after stay.

The patient cannot receive a negative credit mark for failure to pay the hospital or any related services, or any third-party agent collecting on their behalf. Such services may not threaten patient with credit reporting to scare them into paying.

Hospitals are prohibited from discriminating against or providing substandard care to those who appear impoverished or homeless, are not well-dressed or groomed, or exhibit signs of mental illness or intoxication. If the hospital fears a patient may be a threat to others, the hospital may delay care only as necessary to protect others.

Hospitals are required to sufficiently feed patients unable to pay at a level equal to those able to pay, while meeting all physician-ordered dietary restrictions.
Hospitals are not required to provide premium services to the patient not related to medical care (such as television) when failure to provide this service does not compromise patient care.

Hospitals and affiliated clinics are not required to provide continued outpatient care, drugs, or other supplies following discharge. In the event such services are recommended, but a patient is unable to pay, the hospital is required to refer the patient to a clinic or tax-funded or private program that enables the patient to pay for these services, and to which the patient has reasonable access. Hospitals must reasonably assist patients as necessary to obtain these services by providing information the patient requests.

 

[uscitizen]

an oath should never be broken?

Lmao all politicians take oaths and virtually all of them break them.

and your point? Do you take an oath lightly? I don't

the only oath I ever took lightly was the one for the Army after I was drafted. It was an oath you either gave or went to Leavenworth.
Oaths at "gunpoint" are worthless.