A Sad day for America

[Caligirl]

I take full responsibility for this mess. Y'all can quit blaming other people now, just blame me, it's my fault.

 

[Jon]

It was a sad day for America when George W. Bush was elected.

It was a sad day for humanity when you were born. But I agree with you, Bush's election was a tragedy. Although he's been a lot more fun than Gore would have been.

 

[Red Dawn]

I have come to the conclusion after much thought, on this bailout, that with the passage of this bill our country will fundamentally change from a republic to a government controlled socialist democracy.

Do you think George Bush, Dick Cheney, and all the republicans who control the Treasury Department, Commerce Department and SEC were really just secret communists? A Manchurian candidate of sorts?

 

[Navy1960]

Do you think George Bush, Dick Cheney, and all the republicans who control the Treasury Department, Commerce Department and SEC were really just secret communists? A Manchurian candidate of sorts?

Do you know Red , at first I was thinking of calling this thread alternate universe! Here we have a conservative who is now socializing in a BIG BIG way pretty much a big portion of our financial markets and then we have Barack Obama and other democrats who are advocating support for Bush while wanting even more oversite on the money. Then we have still other democrats in agreement with Newt Gingrich that this is bad idea and sends the wrong message. Then we have republicans that want to make sure everyone knows they didn't take as much money as the democrats. So in answer to your question, YES I think the whole thing has become this big giant social exercise. The funny thing here is, we have both candidates talking about who's going to give tax cuts to whom. Which if this bailout goes through which it will, anyone who thinks that they are not going to have to pay for this is kidding themselves. poor, middle class, rich or otherwise.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I have come to the conclusion after much thought, on this bailout, that with the passage of this bill our country will fundamentally change from a republic to a government controlled socialist democracy. It's truly a sad day in American history for us all, from this point forward, the Govt. will be in the mortgage, banking, and insurance business...

You know... maybe it won't be so bad.

We need investment banking services and we need insurance. Neither of these industries is exactly productive - neither manufactures a product or serves a meal.

Both are simply pools of money, managed on behalf of the contributors to, in the case of investment banking, keep the local banks flush with cash so that they can make loans, and for insurance, covered losses are paid from the pool.

The taxpayer is the insurance of last resort anyway (FEEMA)... Perhaps We The People should back our own mortgages and save a few pennies as a people for a rainy day (insurance)...

Just thinking out loud here... With proper management We, The People could even make a buck or two.

We put a man on the moon if you believe some stories on the net... Surely we can figure out how to invest two huge fucking piles of money.

Can't we?

Heck, we already have part of the 'where to invest' question answered... home mortgages.

-Joe

 

[Navy1960]

You know... maybe it won't be so bad.

We need investment banking services and we need insurance. Neither of these industries is exactly productive - neither manufactures a product or serves a meal.

Both are simply pools of money, managed on behalf of the contributors to, in the case of investment banking, keep the local banks flush with cash so that they can make loans, and for insurance, covered losses are paid from the pool.

The taxpayer is the insurance of last resort anyway (FEEMA)... Perhaps We The People should back our own mortgages and save a few pennies as a people for a rainy day (insurance)...

Just thinking out loud here... With proper management We, The People could even make a buck or two.

We put a man on the moon if you believe some stories on the net... Surely we can figure out how to invest two huge fucking piles of money.

Can't we?

Heck, we already have part of the 'where to invest' question answered... home mortgages.

-Joe

I am starting to like this idea I had off the cuff Joe about the government just up and refinancing all the homes out there. I mean to hell with it, if the government is going to lend out a trillion dollars it may as well do some good and make my property value go back up. It seems to me if the housing market gets going again, i.e. all these foreclosed properties on the markets occupied, then the market should become more stable and open up some as people want more new homes and the credit to buy them. At the same time the government can pass tighter lending restrictions on new loans. I fail to see what bailing out to the tune of over 700 billion is going to do with all those homes out there that are sitting empty and unable to sell.

 

[jschuck12001]

I am starting to like this idea I had off the cuff Joe about the government just up and refinancing all the homes out there. I mean to hell with it, if the government is going to lend out a trillion dollars it may as well do some good and make my property value go back up. It seems to me if the housing market gets going again, i.e. all these foreclosed properties on the markets occupied, then the market should become more stable and open up some as people want more new homes and the credit to buy them. At the same time the government can pass tighter lending restrictions on new loans. I fail to see what bailing out to the tune of over 700 billion is going to do with all those homes out there that are sitting empty and unable to sell.

It wont do anything, your right Navy, until that supply goes down we are all screwed. How do you make supply go down without keeping lending policies loose. If they tighten the lending guidelines then this will drag out for years. Were damned either way.

 

[Navy1960]

It wont do anything, your right Navy, until that supply goes down we are all screwed. How do you make supply go down without keeping lending policies loose. If they tighten the lending guidelines then this will drag out for years. Were damned either way.

I don't know jschuck, but it seems to me that giving away a trillion dollars or more to Wall Street sends the wrong signal, to Oh about a few hundred million other people out there. Further, if they did buy up the homes and offer them back the framework , for lending I was talking about was more of an oversight framework, i.e. more a traditional one, such as an "affordability model" type lending complete with checks and balances. It doesn't seem hard to me, or a lost art , or I hope not to lend money based on someones ability to pay it back.

 

[jschuck12001]

I don't know jschuck, but it seems to me that giving away a trillion dollars or more to Wall Street sends the wrong signal, to Oh about a few hundred million other people out there. Further, if they did buy up the homes and offer them back the framework , for lending I was talking about was more of an oversight framework, i.e. more a traditional one, such as an "affordability model" type lending complete with checks and balances. It doesn't seem hard to me, or a lost art , or I hope not to lend money based on someones ability to pay it back.

Do you mean have the government monitor your checking account and garnish your wages for your home. What can they do. Give me an example, I am curious as you are one of the few with actual idea's on this board.

 

[Navy1960]

Do you mean have the government monitor your checking account and garnish your wages for your home. What can they do. Give me an example, I am curious as you are one of the few with actual idea's on this board.

No not so much monitor your checking account as much as verify income and debt and collect in the form of garnishment when you don't pay, I'm pretty sure that the government gives the states broad powers to do this sort of thing anyway under the Child Support Enforcement Act, and other just look at the IRS as a collection arm. However, it would seem to me quite easy to come up with a grading scale for someones affordability to purchase a home. For example, if you make 50,000. a year and are looking at a 150,000.00 home and have 45,000.00 in debts. your grade is not going to be so good, see what I mean. However, this does not mean you won't get the home, provided you allow the government if you are buying a government home, with a government loan the ability to take your loan payment directly from your pay. If for example if you make 50,000 a year and are looking at a home thats 500,000 a year then you wont get it see what I mean as your grade will be too low to qualify for it. no matter how good your credit is. just an idea. I would rather have the government do this than just run around with taxpayer money writing checks right and left that is not going to clean this mess up at all.

 

[jschuck12001]

No not so much monitor your checking account as much as verify income and debt and collect in the form of garnishment when you don't pay, I'm pretty sure that the government gives the states broad powers to do this sort of thing anyway under the Child Support Enforcement Act, and other just look at the IRS as a collection arm. However, it would seem to me quite easy to come up with a grading scale for someones affordability to purchase a home. For example, if you make 50,000. a year and are looking at a 150,000.00 home and have 45,000.00 in debts. your grade is not going to be so good, see what I mean. However, this does not mean you won't get the home, provided you allow the government if you are buying a government home, with a government loan the ability to take your loan payment directly from your pay. If for example if you make 50,000 a year and are looking at a home thats 500,000 a year then you wont get it see what I mean as your grade will be too low to qualify for it. no matter how good your credit is. just an idea. I would rather have the government do this than just run around with taxpayer money writing checks right and left that is not going to clean this mess up at all.

Hey, at least you have ideas. I think you have some good points but you know the far left will never go for the garnishments.

 

[Navy1960]

Hey, at least you have ideas. I think you have some good points but you know the far left will never go for the garnishments.

Well just call it automatic debit then lol !! Like I said it's got to be better than shelling out all that money for nothing but a tax increase. Sort of feel like I'm paying for my own tax increase here.

 

[jschuck12001]

Well just call it automatic debit then lol !! Like I said it's got to be better than shelling out all that money for nothing but a tax increase. Sort of feel like I'm paying for my own tax increase here.

At least you have that nice military pension. Someone better come up with something soon and your idea is the first I have heard on the message board and the news, its a shame we are in a finger pointing contest when we really need to be coming up with a resolution.

 

[Navy1960]

At least you have that nice military pension. Someone better come up with something soon and your idea is the first I have heard on the message board and the news, its a shame we are in a finger pointing contest when we really need to be coming up with a resolution.

Well trust me my pension is not going to thrust me into that rich catagory anytime soon. I think the reason you hear finger pointing and we are all guilty of it from time to time is we sometimes forget that we are all on the same ship like it or not. So if this ship goes down we all go down, so you would think that some in Washington would get the bright idea that there is some common ground somewhere. I think though, when most go to Washington, they are full of well meaning, until they get there and then are indoctrinated into the party system.. Then they become little foot soilders in the system of "he said she said war thats been going on there for years at our expense. I had this idea at one time wouldn't it be nice if they had a national campaign called "Vote for the other person" meaning if you saw the word incumbant next to someones name republican or democrat, you voted for the other person, that way, we ended up with all NEW faces. Who knows maybe then we can get something done.

 

[Chris]

It was a sad day for humanity when you were born. But I agree with you, Bush's election was a tragedy. Although he's been a lot more fun than Gore would have been.

I will continue to oppose everything the Republican Party stands for.

Which is nothing.

 

[KittenKoder]

I will continue to oppose everything the Republican Party stands for.

Which is nothing.

Then you are no better than they are.

 

[Jon]

Then you are no better than they are.

Exactly, people like Kirk are solid proof that Americans are fucking ignorant. It's not that he SUPPORTS everything Democrats are for, but he's AGAINST everything Republicans stand for. I'll never be so naive as to say that I'm completely for or against any political party. Maintaining the Independent status allows me to agree/disagree with whatever the fuck I want to agree/disagree with, and no one on either side should care - because I'm not on their side anyway.

Kirk just wants to look good to all his hippy friends who live off welfare, food stamps, and can't pay their subprime mortgages.

 

[jschuck12001]

Exactly, people like Kirk are solid proof that Americans are fucking ignorant. It's not that he SUPPORTS everything Democrats are for, but he's AGAINST everything Republicans stand for. I'll never be so naive as to say that I'm completely for or against any political party. Maintaining the Independent status allows me to agree/disagree with whatever the fuck I want to agree/disagree with, and no one on either side should care - because I'm not on their side anyway.

Kirk just wants to look good to all his hippy friends who live off welfare, food stamps, and can't pay their subprime mortgages.

Thats fine but all I see you doing is pounding the Dems, what do you actually like about the Dem's and please just act like Obama was not running. I think your a closet republican and thats fine but your are about the most militant in your posts and brutal. So much frustration. You need a hug Jsanders.

Let me guess, you will say" If it wasnt for fuckin stupid people like you and Obama then I wouldnt be so frustrated".

 

[KittenKoder]

Thats fine but all I see you doing is pounding the Dems, what do you actually like about the Dem's and please just act like Obama was not running. I think your a closet republican and thats fine but your are about the most militant in your posts and brutal. So much frustration. You need a hug Jsanders.

Let me guess, you will say" If it wasnt for fuckin stupid people like you and Obama then I wouldnt be so frustrated".

I think the last part of JSanders statement shows that they are just the extreme opposite of Kirk.

 

[Jon]

Thats fine but all I see you doing is pounding the Dems, what do you actually like about the Dem's and please just act like Obama was not running. I think your a closet republican and thats fine but your are about the most militant in your posts and brutal. So much frustration. You need a hug Jsanders.

Let me guess, you will say" If it wasnt for fuckin stupid people like you and Obama then I wouldnt be so frustrated".

There are lots of things I like about Democrats. Their concern for the environment, clean fuels, etc. They've been fighting this issue for years. They also don't oppose gay marriage, an issue that I feel is completely unconstitutional. They also put a great deal of thought into education reform and offer better opportunities for young people to go to college and receive degrees to better themselves. I agree that health care needs reformed, but I don't think universal health care is the answer. I don't know that it's any better or worse than what we have now, but I'd rather we stick to what we have than risk fucking everything up worse with something that has unknown results.

Also, I don't know why you think I think you're stupid. I've been nothing but courteous to you until you called me a liar and personally attacked me.

Kitten, the complete opposite of Kirk would be an intelligent far right wing Bible-thumper...kinda like Sarah Palin.