A Sad day for America

[jschuck12001]

There are lots of things I like about Democrats. Their concern for the environment, clean fuels, etc. They've been fighting this issue for years. They also don't oppose gay marriage, an issue that I feel is completely unconstitutional. They also put a great deal of thought into education reform and offer better opportunities for young people to go to college and receive degrees to better themselves. I agree that health care needs reformed, but I don't think universal health care is the answer. I don't know that it's any better or worse than what we have now, but I'd rather we stick to what we have than risk fucking everything up worse with something that has unknown results.

Also, I don't know why you think I think you're stupid. I've been nothing but courteous to you until you called me a liar and personally attacked me.

Kitten, the complete opposite of Kirk would be an intelligent far right wing Bible-thumper...kinda like Sarah Palin.

Relax, I just wanted to know where you stand, not trying to get in a battle. Your scrappy, I like that.

 

[KittenKoder]

There are lots of things I like about Democrats. Their concern for the environment, clean fuels, etc. They've been fighting this issue for years. They also don't oppose gay marriage, an issue that I feel is completely unconstitutional. They also put a great deal of thought into education reform and offer better opportunities for young people to go to college and receive degrees to better themselves. I agree that health care needs reformed, but I don't think universal health care is the answer. I don't know that it's any better or worse than what we have now, but I'd rather we stick to what we have than risk fucking everything up worse with something that has unknown results.

Also, I don't know why you think I think you're stupid. I've been nothing but courteous to you until you called me a liar and personally attacked me.

Kitten, the complete opposite of Kirk would be an intelligent far right wing Bible-thumper...kinda like Sarah Palin.

Palin is a freak. She is a scary freak.

 

[Jon]

Palin is a freak. She is a scary freak.

I've seen worse. Some of her stances are a little silly, but like I said, she'll never try to pass laws to ban condoms or force us to learn about Jesus in school. She knows those laws are unconstitutional. Even if she did attempt to write such laws, no one would ever pass them through Congress.

Other than that, she's pretty sound on a lot of key issues. Her lack of foreign policy is a downer, but so is Obama's.

 

[jillian]

I'm not complaining that they might leave, if you weren't so frickin ignorant you would have picked up on that, when they leave you can eas shit and die.

why do you think I'd be left behind?

Do you read? I'd suggest you don't know anything about me. You just know that I kicked your butt on a thread so decided to go Allie on us.... You might want to try learning the players ... Or did you just come on this board to be insulting and obnoxious?

 

[KittenKoder]

I've seen worse. Some of her stances are a little silly, but like I said, she'll never try to pass laws to ban condoms or force us to learn about Jesus in school. She knows those laws are unconstitutional. Even if she did attempt to write such laws, no one would ever pass them through Congress.

Other than that, she's pretty sound on a lot of key issues. Her lack of foreign policy is a downer, but so is Obama's.

The reality that many do not face is ... we won't know until they spend some time in office. Ultimately that is where they will be tested. They can say anything they want on the campaign trail but really, how many past preses have done what they said they would 100% of the time?

 

[bigdaddygtr]

yep, it sucks. And we have the Democrats to thank! I still want to know what they plan to do when they run out of rich people to bugger.

You are so full of shit every time you post that even Ray Charles can see it

 

[AVG-JOE]

It wont do anything, your right Navy, until that supply goes down we are all screwed. How do you make supply go down without keeping lending policies loose. If they tighten the lending guidelines then this will drag out for years. Were damned either way.

The problem is the conflicting goals... many need home prices to rise so that they're not upside down in their mortgages, But it seems kind of dumb to base our economy on expensive shelter.

What really needs to happen is for prices to be correct. Supply and demand baby! Speculation needs to be minimal and money needs to be available at reasonable, fair and stable rates

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

No not so much monitor your checking account as much as verify income and debt and collect in the form of garnishment when you don't pay, I'm pretty sure that the government gives the states broad powers to do this sort of thing anyway under the Child Support Enforcement Act, and other just look at the IRS as a collection arm. However, it would seem to me quite easy to come up with a grading scale for someones affordability to purchase a home. For example, if you make 50,000. a year and are looking at a 150,000.00 home and have 45,000.00 in debts. your grade is not going to be so good, see what I mean. However, this does not mean you won't get the home, provided you allow the government if you are buying a government home, with a government loan the ability to take your loan payment directly from your pay. If for example if you make 50,000 a year and are looking at a home thats 500,000 a year then you wont get it see what I mean as your grade will be too low to qualify for it. no matter how good your credit is. just an idea. I would rather have the government do this than just run around with taxpayer money writing checks right and left that is not going to clean this mess up at all.

There is nothing wrong with letting local private banks compete for your mortgage business as long as they bear most of the risk. They will certainly do their due diligence on the prospective borrowers if they do. The problem arises when the local rich dude (bank) has loaned out all his money to quality home buyers - he can't wait the years it would take to receive enough money back in payments to make another loan, he needs to sell some of that paper - bring on the investment banker.

If We, The People take over investment banking, but rely on the private originating bank to bear most, if not all of the risk for default, We, The Investment Bank needn't perform due diligence on the paper at all. And, the local bank will have the local asset (home) that is foreclosed on to sell locally.

Banking is not rocket science even though the paperwork for it in America is.

-Joe

 

[editec]

Editec has a populist meltdown​

(WARNING- Pay no attention to this rant, I'm having a hard morning)​

The solution is simple...screw the banks and bond holders.

They bought bonds from the wrong bankers? Tough shit.

The government should take over the mortgage business entirely.

Start collecting the mortgage payments from the people and pay off the national debt with it.

If millions of bankers holders lose their shirts, so the fuck what?

They caused this insane problem to begin with.

Where'd they get the money to lend us, anyway?

They INVENTED IT.

They didn't have any money to lend, they just did their Federal reserve accounting magic and gave us fiat paper in return for us working our asses off for thirty years!

Bloodsucking, money-they-didn't-earn-and-only-invented-out-of-thin-air-to-begin-with fiat money lending, smug capitalist assholes don't deserve compensation or consideration...what they really deserve is a dance with the hangman's daughter.

The working people keep paying their mortgages.

Workers, not bankers and financiers, are the source of all wealth, anyway, folks.

Except these nitwits could INVENT money (by law) and then get rich lending that fiat money, fiat money we HAD to USE.

What the hell do we care if one set of super-capitalist asshole bankers ended up screwing another set of smug capitalists investors?

As the USA pays down its debts, using the mortgage payments AMERICANS pay them, the value of our money goes up if the government retires its debts with it.

America wins, fiat money-lending gangsters lose...who fucking cares?

Yeah yeah, I know, a completely unworkable solution for multiple reasons, including that everyone with money in the bank loses it all.​

But a populist can dream, can't he?

​

 

[Diuretic]

I like it!

No kidding though, people get cranky enough, the politicians better listen.

 

[del]

Just goes to show you can't have a unbiased opinion.

well, duuuh, that's why it's an opinion, dope.

 

[Diuretic]

well, duuuh, that's why it's an opinion, dope.

If you're an expert witness you'd better make sure your opinion is unbiased

 

[sealybobo]

I don't think I ever claimed that we were a bunch of whiners Sealy, and I don't see the democratic party running to agree with me on my point on this one. No the difference here is I don't have party " crap" so filled in my eye's that I can see what a screwed up mess this bailout is. Funny, I don't see a R next to Chris Dodds name. No , I'm just calling it like I see it, and want to know what? in this case no PARTY is the lesser of two evils. What gets me is the assertion that somehow the democrats hold some moral high ground on this thing, when in fact they don't. Also, I'd thank you to keep the "editorial name calling" to yourself. If you cannot show a little respect for someone simply because they don't happen to agree with you, then my suggestion is , don't read what they write.

Really? Chris Dodd wants Section 8 taken out of the bailout. Do you even know what that is? I'm only hearing about it from sources on the left. And it is the RIGHT that is trying to get away with it.

Here:

A critical - and radical - component of the bailout package proposed by the Bush administration has thus far failed to garner the serious attention of anyone in the press. Section 8

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.



Dirty Secret Of The Bailout: Thirty-Two Words That None Dare Utter



In short, the so-called "mother of all bailouts," which will transfer $700 billion taxpayer dollars to purchase the distressed assets of several failed financial institutions, will be conducted in a manner unchallengeable by courts and ungovernable by the People's duly sworn representatives. All decision-making power will be consolidated into the Executive Branch - who, we remind you, will have the incentive to act upon this privilege as quickly as possible, before they leave office. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay, and no fundamental means of holding those who fail to do so accountable.


IMO, this is just the GOP's last angle to raid the kitty and empty the treasury before Bush leaves office. This lie, is much like the WMD lie. How much did they loot from us with the WMD lie? $20 billion a month for 6 years? Now they want another $700 billion? Say goodbye to Social Security stupid.

 

[editec]

They do NOT know who to fix this.

They really think that they can contuinue bankrupting the American people to save their class, their system, the system what has served them so well by allowing these greedy money bags to ride on the backs of the working class.

They may get away with it for a while yet, because the American people are very timid, and law abiding people, who will put up with almost anything before they'll admit that the people leading them don't give a rat's ass what happens to them.

But...
as the quality of life continues to slide down the shitter for more and more of us;

as the American people start really suffering things we've always associated with Africa and the third world;

as hard working Americans who did NOTHING STUPID, who worked hard and saved and scrimped to make it in a nation which made it harder and harder and harder for honest people to make it...

this system is going to continue unravel because this system wants to reward those who do not work, but who merely manipulate our fiat currency.

Oh, by the way, the revolution will not be televised.

It will not be announced. It will never be acknowledged.

It will not come to us armed patriots storming the White House to throw the bums out, either.

The revolution will come to us as crime, as things we've come to expect as our birthright falling apart; as systems one by one failing to work to more and more of us.

It revolution will come to us as more and more of us refuse to keep working for a system which does not reward our labors with a living wage, as the value of our specie becomes worthless, as more and more businesses simply shut down because it is pointless to keep trying to make it in a land which does not CARE if you live or die...as long as you pay your taxes.

Will it happen this year?

Folks, the system has been failing us for the last couple decades. Who are the revolutionaries? The crypts and the Bloods. The M-13 maniancs...in short the people we think of as criminals are the avants guard of the revolution/anarchy that happens when governments become SO coruupt that decent people are forgotten and abandoned to find they are strangers in a strange land.

Those us us on the bottom of the economic heap, that great mass of the unconnected and disenfranchised have known this for some time.

Some of you, you who have been served fairly well by this failing system, you who keep insisting that the vitimins are villians are in for a very unpleasant wake-up call...

When people have nothing they have NOTHING TO LOSE!

 

[Navy1960]

Really? Chris Dodd wants Section 8 taken out of the bailout. Do you even know what that is? I'm only hearing about it from sources on the left. And it is the RIGHT that is trying to get away with it.

Here:

A critical - and radical - component of the bailout package proposed by the Bush administration has thus far failed to garner the serious attention of anyone in the press. Section 8

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.



Dirty Secret Of The Bailout: Thirty-Two Words That None Dare Utter



In short, the so-called "mother of all bailouts," which will transfer $700 billion taxpayer dollars to purchase the distressed assets of several failed financial institutions, will be conducted in a manner unchallengeable by courts and ungovernable by the People's duly sworn representatives. All decision-making power will be consolidated into the Executive Branch - who, we remind you, will have the incentive to act upon this privilege as quickly as possible, before they leave office. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay, and no fundamental means of holding those who fail to do so accountable.


IMO, this is just the GOP's last angle to raid the kitty and empty the treasury before Bush leaves office. This lie, is much like the WMD lie. How much did they loot from us with the WMD lie? $20 billion a month for 6 years? Now they want another $700 billion? Say goodbye to Social Security stupid.

A. I think I have made it pretty CLEAR where I stand on this issue
B. That being said, to give ANYONE, including the Fed, Chairman sole authority with no oversight on this, would be a a complete mistake.
C. I have said on many occasions this is NOT a issue that belongs in the hands of the GOP nor the Dems. but it does belong in the hands of every elected official that has looked the other way in the last several years. Now I'm sorry of some party partisans find that offensive, that even their party is capable of making mistakes but they can and they DO.
D. I do know what section 8 is, "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency" and as stated above, you think for a moment I agree with this? As a matter of fact, many republicans I know don't agree with this at all.
E. Sealy, you sound like and intelligent person, but you know this is the last time I am going to address this issue with you, you need to show some level of the same respect given you when talking with someone. If you call someone "stupid, "dumb" whatever, then you serve no useful purpose other than to take attention away from your argument and is essence turn it into a schoolyard name calling contest.
F. On the Social Security issue, I have addressed issues along these lines in several posts in respect to this bailout. The fact is, I think this bailout will do nothing but send the wrong message and lend credence to irresponsibility. I also believe that there is NO way to pay for this bailout other than raising taxes.

 

[WillowTree]

Navy? Would you please change your user name to STUPID so Sealybobob will get it right? Thanks in Advance.

 

[del]

If you're an expert witness you'd better make sure your opinion is unbiased

no, you had better make sure it's informed. you're being paid for your bias.

 

[Navy1960]

Navy? Would you please change your user name to STUPID so Sealybobob will get it right? Thanks in Advance.

Willow, I don't have too, it's something I am called constantly when my teenage daughter is have a little tantrum over something.

 

[sealybobo]

They do NOT know who to fix this.

They really think that they can contuinue bankrupting the American people to save their class, their system, the system what has served them so well by allowing these greedy money bags to ride on the backs of the working class.

They may get away with it for a while yet, because the American people are very timid, and law abiding people, who will put up with almost anything before they'll admit that the people leading them don't give a rat's ass what happens to them.

But...
as the quality of life continues to slide down the shitter for more and more of us;

as the American people start really suffering things we've always associated with Africa and the third world;

as hard working Americans who did NOTHING STUPID, who worked hard and saved and scrimped to make it in a nation which made it harder and harder and harder for honest people to make it...

this system is going to continue unravel because this system wants to reward those who do not work, but who merely manipulate our fiat currency.

Oh, by the way, the revolution will not be televised.

It will not be announced. It will never be acknowledged.

It will not come to us armed patriots storming the White House to throw the bums out, either.

The revolution will come to us as crime, as things we've come to expect as our birthright falling apart; as systems one by one failing to work to more and more of us.

It revolution will come to us as more and more of us refuse to keep working for a system which does not reward our labors with a living wage, as the value of our specie becomes worthless, as more and more businesses simply shut down because it is pointless to keep trying to make it in a land which does not CARE if you live or die...as long as you pay your taxes.

Will it happen this year?

Folks, the system has been failing us for the last couple decades. Who are the revolutionaries? The crypts and the Bloods. The M-13 maniancs...in short the people we think of as criminals are the avants guard of the revolution/anarchy that happens when governments become SO coruupt that decent people are forgotten and abandoned to find they are strangers in a strange land.

Those us us on the bottom of the economic heap, that great mass of the unconnected and disenfranchised have known this for some time.

Some of you, you who have been served fairly well by this failing system, you who keep insisting that the vitimins are villians are in for a very unpleasant wake-up call...

When people have nothing they have NOTHING TO LOSE!

When did you become so extreme? It seems the rage has been let out of you. I hope to see/hear more Americans wake up.

I know you have always been on the right side of the issues, but you are finally getting pissed off.

All of the conspiracy theories don't seem so far fetched now, huh? Chaney sending anthrax out to scare his enemies and the public. Lying us into war. Purposely emptying the treasury so to do away with liberal social programs. It's called disaster capitalism.

And all the GOP had to do was call us conspiracy theorist and the masses didn't possibly believe their government could be so corrupt.

Meanwhile, they conspired against us.

 

[WillowTree]

Willow, I don't have too, it's something I am called constantly when my teenage daughter is have a little tantrum over something.