A reminder of how democrats led us to this mess

[ScienceRocks]

The buck stopped with Hover and George w Bush. Fact.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Arguing whether or not someone is an ideologue is kind of irrelevant if the purported ideologues are correct in their assertions. I presume you are in agreement with the facts presented as you have made no effort to correct them. Why not take offense with the partisan nature of the OP, he is after all the one peddling BS.

That's because Mac always talks about ideologues from both sides, but he only goes after liberals. There is nothing a right winger can utter or blurt that will draw his ire.

And you folks have just provided a delightful example of why.

We're nowhere near the topic of the thread, and as I recall, the last time we were, I had simply (and correctly) pointed out the fact that you had dishonestly ignored several specific points I had made. Then you folks went mental, made the thread about me (again) and here we are, with you whining that I "only go after liberals".

I don't care for nasty, dishonest people. Maybe you folks are just nastier and more dishonest than your right wing counterparts.
.

Yes. Everyone knows that the libs here are way nastier and way more dishonest than the righties. That can be easily proven.

 

[Tehon]

Then we'll roll our eyes and laugh and order another beer.

So, thanks.
.

You mean kind of like the scumbags did after they had devised a plan to prey upon people's eagerness to own a home. A plan that they thought would allow everyone in the financial markets to make money even in the likely event that the homeowners would default on their mortgage. Yet you want to spread the fault for the world wide financial meltdown to borrowers, as if they were supposed to understand how they were being preyed upon and just how flimsy the plan was or how over leveraged the system was. I don't know, maybe you are trying to alleviate some of your own guilt.

 

[jknowgood]

More right wing crap

jknowgood

Look at the interest rates now and look at what Obama did so people could stay in their homes.

What mandated they had to pay for health insurance? Double food prices. Raised energy rates by 30%, and with closing the coal plants. They say energy prices could go up 80% more. He has out spent all presidents combine. Hasn't done a damn thing for our veterans at the va. More on welfare in our history. Yeah if he helped them keep their home. He sure as hell making sure they won't be able to afford to stay in it.

Uniformed BS talking points NOT based in REALITY. Get off hate talk radio/Faux and grow a brain!

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.

What was wrong with my statements? Liberals are just as greedy, but you want government to get most of it.

Your statements are TOTAL BS based on ignorance. Is it willful or not?

A few:

NO food prices HAVE NOT DOUBLED AND OBAMA HASN'T SPENT MORE THAN EVERY OTHER PREZ COMBINED DUMMY!


Yes, thanks to GOP policy the debt he INHERITED will ALMOST double in his 8 years AFTER Reagan tripled EVERY other Prez combined debt AND Dubya went and doubled that!

You are ignorant beyond anyone's means. You are Obama's number one fluffer. You make Gruber proud. I take it you think Obama has never told a lie?

 

[Mac1958]

Then we'll roll our eyes and laugh and order another beer.

So, thanks.
.

You mean kind of like the scumbags did after they had devised a plan to prey upon people's eagerness to own a home. A plan that they thought would allow everyone in the financial markets to make money even in the likely event that the homeowners would default on their mortgage. Yet you want to spread the fault for the world wide financial meltdown to borrowers, as if they were supposed to understand how they were being preyed upon and just how flimsy the plan was or how over leveraged the system was. I don't know, maybe you are trying to alleviate some of your own guilt.

Yet another one who chooses to ignore what I wrote in Post 88.

It's impossible to communicate with you folks, as you just refuse to practice fundamental honesty.
.

 

[Mac1958]

And for those who want to pretend that the American consumer had nothing to do with the Meltdown -- and no, it's not "all their fault", as the dishonest straw man argument will surely be, they were just a part of it -- here's a look at consumer debt in 2007. No, this does not include mortgage debt, this is just regular credit card and other installment loan data:

• Total installment debt, not including mortgages: $2.398 TRILLION
• Revolving debt: $904 billion
• Typical family's credit card balance: 5% of their annual income

Source: Credit card debt information (2006-2007)

Even with all this existing personal debt, Americans CHOSE to get new mortgages. As far as I know, there were no vicious gangs of Republicans jumping out of vans, kidnapping them, and forcing them to buy a house. They CHOSE to buy a home even knowing they held the other debt. The mortgage companies -- another important part of the Meltdown, which I have already made clear -- couldn't drag these people into their offices, the buyers came in as a result of their own free will.

And let's please not forget all those consumers who CHOSE to get home equity loans JUST TO PAY OFF THEIR CREDIT CARDS. Then many of them, with all that fresh, new credit card space, went right out and started buying again.

I know how desperate you folks are to blame everything on one group of people, and I know you'll do or say anything to pretend consumers had nothing to do with it. I know how the game goes: Partisan ideologues don't place a high priority on honesty.
.

 

[Dad2three]

Arguing whether or not someone is an ideologue is kind of irrelevant if the purported ideologues are correct in their assertions. I presume you are in agreement with the facts presented as you have made no effort to correct them. Why not take offense with the partisan nature of the OP, he is after all the one peddling BS.

That's because Mac always talks about ideologues from both sides, but he only goes after liberals. There is nothing a right winger can utter or blurt that will draw his ire.

And you folks have just provided a delightful example of why.

We're nowhere near the topic of the thread, and as I recall, the last time we were, I had simply (and correctly) pointed out the fact that you had dishonestly ignored several specific points I had made. Then you folks went mental, made the thread about me (again) and here we are, with you whining that I "only go after liberals".

I don't care for nasty, dishonest people. Maybe you folks are just nastier and more dishonest than your right wing counterparts.
.

Sorry Bubba, your "moderate" talking points WERE destroyed. AGAIN

IF Dubya didn't have a REGULATOR FAILURE, the Banksters COULD NOT have had a subprime bubble AND IF NOT FOR DUBYA'S POLICIES IN REGARDS TO THE GSE'S, F/F WOULDN'T HAD FAILED!

 

[Dad2three]

No, I'm just thankful you guys are here to set me straight on this.

The deepest, broadest, most complicated financial meltdown in the history of the planet was all the fault of those guys. Over there.

The next time I'm having dinner with a CFA from Fidelity Funds or a Regional Manager from some REIT group or a fellow CFP/ChFC/CLU I'll point out that a couple of guys in a political message board have convinced me of that. Then we'll roll our eyes and laugh and order another beer.

So, thanks.

There is nothing more impressive than name dropping and the use of acronyms...I AM impressed...

You accused me of not reading your epic post #88...

But you didn't address my reply...

So how about addressing it now oh mighty one?

Please tell me where I am in error...

A reminder of how democrats led us to this mess | Page 15 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I read post 88...now what?

• Borrowers (yes kids, they were involved in this too) signing on the dotted line for loans they goddamn well knew they couldn't afford
• Borrowers (oops, there they are again) getting loans to pay off bills and then, as if they had no functioning brain matter whatsoever, immediately running up new bills

The vast majority of "borrowers" could afford to pay back the loans. The chose not to. Instead they chose to walk away. You see, they were not buying a "homestead"...they were investors who jettisoned a bad investment.

A vast majority. Great. Link?
.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

New federal report shows that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession.



A new federal report shows that speculative real estate investors played a larger role than originally thought in driving the housing bubble that led to record foreclosures and sent economies plummeting in Nevada, California, Arizona, Florida and other states.

Researchers with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession. The researchers said their findings focused on an "undocumented" dimension of the housing market crisis that had been previously overlooked as officials focused on how to contain the financial crisis, not what caused it.

More than a third of all U.S. home mortgages granted in 2006 went to people who already owned at least one house, according to the report. In Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada, where average home prices more than doubled from 2000 to 2006, investors made up nearly half of all mortgage-backed purchases during the housing bubble. Buyers owning three or more properties represented the fastest-growing segment of homeowners during that time.

"This may have allowed the bubble to inflate further, which caused millions of owner-occupants to pay more if they wanted to buy a home for their family," the researchers noted.


Investors defaulted in large numbers after home values began to drop in 2006. They accounted for more than 25 percent of seriously delinquent mortgage balances nationwide, and more than a third in Arizona, California, Florida, and Nevada from 2007 to 2009.


As a result, millions of homeowners saw their home values decline so that they were worth less than the original purchase price. Foreclosures skyrocketed as people couldn't or refused to pay their underwater mortgages. Residential construction also languished, putting hundreds of construction workers in the hardest-hit states out of work.

The report concludes that lenders and regulators must limit speculative borrowing to avoid future housing busts.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

 

[Dad2three]

And for those who want to pretend that the American consumer had nothing to do with the Meltdown -- and no, it's not "all their fault", as the dishonest straw man argument will surely be, they were just a part of it -- here's a look at consumer debt in 2007. No, this does not include mortgage debt, this is just regular credit card and other installment loan data:

• Total installment debt, not including mortgages: $2.398 TRILLION
• Revolving debt: $904 billion
• Typical family's credit card balance: 5% of their annual income

Source: Credit card debt information (2006-2007)

Even with all this existing personal debt, Americans CHOSE to get new mortgages. As far as I know, there were no vicious gangs of Republicans jumping out of vans, kidnapping them, and forcing them to buy a house. They CHOSE to buy a home even knowing they held the other debt. The mortgage companies -- another important part of the Meltdown, which I have already made clear -- couldn't drag these people into their offices, the buyers came in as a result of their own free will.

And let's please not forget all those consumers who CHOSE to get home equity loans JUST TO PAY OFF THEIR CREDIT CARDS. Then many of them, with all that fresh, new credit card space, went right out and started buying again.

I know how desperate you folks are to blame everything on one group of people, and I know you'll do or say anything to pretend consumers had nothing to do with it. I know how the game goes: Partisan ideologues don't place a high priority on honesty.
.

You mean BECAUSE without Dubya cheering on ANOTHER BANKSTER CREDIT BUBBLE, HE HAD ALMOST ZERO GROWTH?


TO BAD DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATES WHO WANTED TO STOP THE BANKSTERS IN 2003, WHO ENDED UP SUING THE BUSH ADMIN, AND WINNING TO LATE IN 2009!

 

[Dad2three]

jknowgood

Look at the interest rates now and look at what Obama did so people could stay in their homes.

What mandated they had to pay for health insurance? Double food prices. Raised energy rates by 30%, and with closing the coal plants. They say energy prices could go up 80% more. He has out spent all presidents combine. Hasn't done a damn thing for our veterans at the va. More on welfare in our history. Yeah if he helped them keep their home. He sure as hell making sure they won't be able to afford to stay in it.

Uniformed BS talking points NOT based in REALITY. Get off hate talk radio/Faux and grow a brain!

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.

What was wrong with my statements? Liberals are just as greedy, but you want government to get most of it.

Your statements are TOTAL BS based on ignorance. Is it willful or not?

A few:

NO food prices HAVE NOT DOUBLED AND OBAMA HASN'T SPENT MORE THAN EVERY OTHER PREZ COMBINED DUMMY!


Yes, thanks to GOP policy the debt he INHERITED will ALMOST double in his 8 years AFTER Reagan tripled EVERY other Prez combined debt AND Dubya went and doubled that!

You are ignorant beyond anyone's means. You are Obama's number one fluffer. You make Gruber proud. I take it you think Obama has never told a lie?

So no you can't refute facts and like most right wingers today, will go the hate talk radio route. Shocking

 

[jknowgood]

What mandated they had to pay for health insurance? Double food prices. Raised energy rates by 30%, and with closing the coal plants. They say energy prices could go up 80% more. He has out spent all presidents combine. Hasn't done a damn thing for our veterans at the va. More on welfare in our history. Yeah if he helped them keep their home. He sure as hell making sure they won't be able to afford to stay in it.

Uniformed BS talking points NOT based in REALITY. Get off hate talk radio/Faux and grow a brain!

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.

What was wrong with my statements? Liberals are just as greedy, but you want government to get most of it.

Your statements are TOTAL BS based on ignorance. Is it willful or not?

A few:

NO food prices HAVE NOT DOUBLED AND OBAMA HASN'T SPENT MORE THAN EVERY OTHER PREZ COMBINED DUMMY!


Yes, thanks to GOP policy the debt he INHERITED will ALMOST double in his 8 years AFTER Reagan tripled EVERY other Prez combined debt AND Dubya went and doubled that!

You are ignorant beyond anyone's means. You are Obama's number one fluffer. You make Gruber proud. I take it you think Obama has never told a lie?

So no you can't refute facts and like most right wingers today, will go the hate talk radio route. Shocking

I forget which president started it, but it was way before Carter. Carter reinstated it, Clinton gave it legs and Bush warned congress about it. Liberals in congress said Bush didn't know what he was talking about. Liberals actually own this one, think everyone should be a homeowner. The big question is after 7 years of Obama, why isn't that much better?

 

[Dad2three]

Uniformed BS talking points NOT based in REALITY. Get off hate talk radio/Faux and grow a brain!

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.

What was wrong with my statements? Liberals are just as greedy, but you want government to get most of it.

Your statements are TOTAL BS based on ignorance. Is it willful or not?

A few:

NO food prices HAVE NOT DOUBLED AND OBAMA HASN'T SPENT MORE THAN EVERY OTHER PREZ COMBINED DUMMY!


Yes, thanks to GOP policy the debt he INHERITED will ALMOST double in his 8 years AFTER Reagan tripled EVERY other Prez combined debt AND Dubya went and doubled that!

You are ignorant beyond anyone's means. You are Obama's number one fluffer. You make Gruber proud. I take it you think Obama has never told a lie?

So no you can't refute facts and like most right wingers today, will go the hate talk radio route. Shocking

I forget which president started it, but it was way before Carter. Carter reinstated it, Clinton gave it legs and Bush warned congress about it. Liberals in congress said Bush didn't know what he was talking about. Liberals actually own this one, think everyone should be a homeowner. The big question is after 7 years of Obama, why isn't that much better?

I get it Bubs, to lazy or willfully dishonest to read the debunking of your talking points, yes it was the Dems:

WEIRD



October 26, 2005

STATEMENT OF ADMINISTRATION POLICY

The Administration strongly believes that the housing GSEs should be focused on their core housing mission, particularly with respect to low-income Americans and first-time homebuyers. Instead, provisions of H.R. 1461 that expand mortgage purchasing authority would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers.

George W. Bush: Statement of Administration Policy: H.R. 1461 - Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

Yes, he said he was against it because it "would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers"


June 17, 2004

(CNN/Money) - Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.


Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004



Bush talked about reform. He talked and he talked. And then he stopped reform. (read that as many times as necessary. Bush stopped reform). And then he stopped it again

FACTS on Dubya's great recession | Page 2 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Mac1958]

No, I'm just thankful you guys are here to set me straight on this.

The deepest, broadest, most complicated financial meltdown in the history of the planet was all the fault of those guys. Over there.

The next time I'm having dinner with a CFA from Fidelity Funds or a Regional Manager from some REIT group or a fellow CFP/ChFC/CLU I'll point out that a couple of guys in a political message board have convinced me of that. Then we'll roll our eyes and laugh and order another beer.

So, thanks.

There is nothing more impressive than name dropping and the use of acronyms...I AM impressed...

You accused me of not reading your epic post #88...

But you didn't address my reply...

So how about addressing it now oh mighty one?

Please tell me where I am in error...

A reminder of how democrats led us to this mess | Page 15 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I read post 88...now what?

• Borrowers (yes kids, they were involved in this too) signing on the dotted line for loans they goddamn well knew they couldn't afford
• Borrowers (oops, there they are again) getting loans to pay off bills and then, as if they had no functioning brain matter whatsoever, immediately running up new bills

The vast majority of "borrowers" could afford to pay back the loans. The chose not to. Instead they chose to walk away. You see, they were not buying a "homestead"...they were investors who jettisoned a bad investment.

A vast majority. Great. Link?
.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

New federal report shows that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession.



A new federal report shows that speculative real estate investors played a larger role than originally thought in driving the housing bubble that led to record foreclosures and sent economies plummeting in Nevada, California, Arizona, Florida and other states.

Researchers with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession. The researchers said their findings focused on an "undocumented" dimension of the housing market crisis that had been previously overlooked as officials focused on how to contain the financial crisis, not what caused it.

More than a third of all U.S. home mortgages granted in 2006 went to people who already owned at least one house, according to the report. In Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada, where average home prices more than doubled from 2000 to 2006, investors made up nearly half of all mortgage-backed purchases during the housing bubble. Buyers owning three or more properties represented the fastest-growing segment of homeowners during that time.

"This may have allowed the bubble to inflate further, which caused millions of owner-occupants to pay more if they wanted to buy a home for their family," the researchers noted.


Investors defaulted in large numbers after home values began to drop in 2006. They accounted for more than 25 percent of seriously delinquent mortgage balances nationwide, and more than a third in Arizona, California, Florida, and Nevada from 2007 to 2009.


As a result, millions of homeowners saw their home values decline so that they were worth less than the original purchase price. Foreclosures skyrocketed as people couldn't or refused to pay their underwater mortgages. Residential construction also languished, putting hundreds of construction workers in the hardest-hit states out of work.

The report concludes that lenders and regulators must limit speculative borrowing to avoid future housing busts.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

I agree completely that, as the title of the article says, they played a "role".

Obviously.
.

 

[Dad2three]

No, I'm just thankful you guys are here to set me straight on this.

The deepest, broadest, most complicated financial meltdown in the history of the planet was all the fault of those guys. Over there.

The next time I'm having dinner with a CFA from Fidelity Funds or a Regional Manager from some REIT group or a fellow CFP/ChFC/CLU I'll point out that a couple of guys in a political message board have convinced me of that. Then we'll roll our eyes and laugh and order another beer.

So, thanks.

There is nothing more impressive than name dropping and the use of acronyms...I AM impressed...

You accused me of not reading your epic post #88...

But you didn't address my reply...

So how about addressing it now oh mighty one?

Please tell me where I am in error...

A reminder of how democrats led us to this mess | Page 15 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I read post 88...now what?

• Borrowers (yes kids, they were involved in this too) signing on the dotted line for loans they goddamn well knew they couldn't afford
• Borrowers (oops, there they are again) getting loans to pay off bills and then, as if they had no functioning brain matter whatsoever, immediately running up new bills

The vast majority of "borrowers" could afford to pay back the loans. The chose not to. Instead they chose to walk away. You see, they were not buying a "homestead"...they were investors who jettisoned a bad investment.

A vast majority. Great. Link?
.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

New federal report shows that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession.



A new federal report shows that speculative real estate investors played a larger role than originally thought in driving the housing bubble that led to record foreclosures and sent economies plummeting in Nevada, California, Arizona, Florida and other states.

Researchers with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession. The researchers said their findings focused on an "undocumented" dimension of the housing market crisis that had been previously overlooked as officials focused on how to contain the financial crisis, not what caused it.

More than a third of all U.S. home mortgages granted in 2006 went to people who already owned at least one house, according to the report. In Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada, where average home prices more than doubled from 2000 to 2006, investors made up nearly half of all mortgage-backed purchases during the housing bubble. Buyers owning three or more properties represented the fastest-growing segment of homeowners during that time.

"This may have allowed the bubble to inflate further, which caused millions of owner-occupants to pay more if they wanted to buy a home for their family," the researchers noted.


Investors defaulted in large numbers after home values began to drop in 2006. They accounted for more than 25 percent of seriously delinquent mortgage balances nationwide, and more than a third in Arizona, California, Florida, and Nevada from 2007 to 2009.


As a result, millions of homeowners saw their home values decline so that they were worth less than the original purchase price. Foreclosures skyrocketed as people couldn't or refused to pay their underwater mortgages. Residential construction also languished, putting hundreds of construction workers in the hardest-hit states out of work.

The report concludes that lenders and regulators must limit speculative borrowing to avoid future housing busts.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

I agree completely that, as the title of the article says, they played a "role".

Obviously.
.

HUGE role Bubba, one AGAIN, IF DUBYA "BELIEVED IN" REGULATORS, HE COULD'VE STOPPED THE SUBPRIME BUBBLE. But without it, he had almost zero growth, even with his tax cuts for the rich, UNFUNDED wars and UNFUNDED Medicare expansion where the US Gov't can't even negotiate with Pharma



"New federal report shows that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession."

 

[LeftofLeft]

Dispute it

If you don't worship unregulated free market capitalism does that make you a traitor to America? Are you being dramatic?

But notice you worship your ism? Wow! Do you worship God or capitalism more?

The scary thing about this is that Republicans were calling for more regulation of Fannie and Freddie and Democrats were screaming, "leave it alone." Why was that? Perhaps these organizations are good crony vehicles.

 

[Dad2three]

Well, it's nice to see that evidently everyone agrees that proper, comprehensive, efficient regulation of financial markets is critical.

Yes, the video is right in that the GSE's were under-effectively-regulated, and yes, that played a role. But that's just the beginning, and only part of the Meltdown.

• The bankers who created, with the help of (I am NOT making this up) physicists, the abominations known as sub-prime CDO's to dangle in front of investors, pure shit securities
  
• The ratings agencies, obediently slapping AAA ratings (for a fee, of course) on those pure shit securities were also under-effectively-regulated.
  
• AIG, selling horrific Credit Default Swaps like candy to children without having to worry about pesky reserve requirements, was also under-effectively-regulated.
• Mortgage lenders granting spectacularly stupid 125% no-doc loans on anyone with a fucking pulse.
• Borrowers (yes kids, they were involved in this too) signing on the dotted line for loans they goddamn well knew they couldn't afford
• Borrowers (oops, there they are again) getting loans to pay off bills and then, as if they had no functioning brain matter whatsoever, immediately running up new bills

On and on, I know I missed a few. Both ends of the spectrum just love to point the finger at the other, as always.
.

Lets go one by one and debunk your garbage Bubs



"Yes, the video is right in that the GSE's were under-effectively-regulated, and yes, that played a role"


WHO WAS THE REGULATOR OF THE GSE'S IN THIS PERIOD AGAIN? Oh right DUBYA



Bush talked about reform. He talked and he talked. And then he stopped reform. (read that as many times as necessary. Bush stopped reform). And then he stopped it again

Testimony from Dubya's s Treasury Secretary John Snow to the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS concerning the 'regulation of the GSE's 2004

Mr. BARNEY Frank: ...Are we in a crisis now with these entities?

Secretary Snow. No, that is a fair characterization, Congressman Frank, of our position. We are not putting this proposal before you because of some concern over some imminent danger to the financial system for housing; far from it.


October 26, 2005

STATEMENT OF ADMINISTRATION POLICY

The Administration strongly believes that the housing GSEs should be focused on their core housing mission, particularly with respect to low-income Americans and first-time homebuyers. Instead, provisions of H.R. 1461 that expand mortgage purchasing authority would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers.

George W. Bush: Statement of Administration Policy: H.R. 1461 - Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

Yes, he said he was against it because it "would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers"


June 17, 2004

(CNN/Money) - Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.


Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004


BUT NO, THOUGH BUSH CRUSHED F/F (AS REGULATOR), THE GSE'S DIDN'T CAUSE THE BUSH SUBPRIME CRISIS



GSE'S AROUND FOR 70 YEARS DID THIS:

 

[Mac1958]

No, I'm just thankful you guys are here to set me straight on this.

The deepest, broadest, most complicated financial meltdown in the history of the planet was all the fault of those guys. Over there.

The next time I'm having dinner with a CFA from Fidelity Funds or a Regional Manager from some REIT group or a fellow CFP/ChFC/CLU I'll point out that a couple of guys in a political message board have convinced me of that. Then we'll roll our eyes and laugh and order another beer.

So, thanks.

There is nothing more impressive than name dropping and the use of acronyms...I AM impressed...

You accused me of not reading your epic post #88...

But you didn't address my reply...

So how about addressing it now oh mighty one?

Please tell me where I am in error...

A reminder of how democrats led us to this mess | Page 15 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I read post 88...now what?

• Borrowers (yes kids, they were involved in this too) signing on the dotted line for loans they goddamn well knew they couldn't afford
• Borrowers (oops, there they are again) getting loans to pay off bills and then, as if they had no functioning brain matter whatsoever, immediately running up new bills

The vast majority of "borrowers" could afford to pay back the loans. The chose not to. Instead they chose to walk away. You see, they were not buying a "homestead"...they were investors who jettisoned a bad investment.

A vast majority. Great. Link?
.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

New federal report shows that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession.



A new federal report shows that speculative real estate investors played a larger role than originally thought in driving the housing bubble that led to record foreclosures and sent economies plummeting in Nevada, California, Arizona, Florida and other states.

Researchers with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession. The researchers said their findings focused on an "undocumented" dimension of the housing market crisis that had been previously overlooked as officials focused on how to contain the financial crisis, not what caused it.

More than a third of all U.S. home mortgages granted in 2006 went to people who already owned at least one house, according to the report. In Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada, where average home prices more than doubled from 2000 to 2006, investors made up nearly half of all mortgage-backed purchases during the housing bubble. Buyers owning three or more properties represented the fastest-growing segment of homeowners during that time.

"This may have allowed the bubble to inflate further, which caused millions of owner-occupants to pay more if they wanted to buy a home for their family," the researchers noted.


Investors defaulted in large numbers after home values began to drop in 2006. They accounted for more than 25 percent of seriously delinquent mortgage balances nationwide, and more than a third in Arizona, California, Florida, and Nevada from 2007 to 2009.


As a result, millions of homeowners saw their home values decline so that they were worth less than the original purchase price. Foreclosures skyrocketed as people couldn't or refused to pay their underwater mortgages. Residential construction also languished, putting hundreds of construction workers in the hardest-hit states out of work.

The report concludes that lenders and regulators must limit speculative borrowing to avoid future housing busts.

Real estate flippers blamed for role in housing bubble

I agree completely that, as the title of the article says, they played a "role".

Obviously.
.

HUGE role Bubba, one AGAIN, IF DUBYA "BELIEVED IN" REGULATORS, HE COULD'VE STOPPED THE SUBPRIME BUBBLE. But without it, he had almost zero growth, even with his tax cuts for the rich, UNFUNDED wars and UNFUNDED Medicare expansion where the US Gov't can't even negotiate with Pharma



"New federal report shows that investors who used low-down-payment, subprime credit to purchase multiple residential properties helped inflate home prices and are largely to blame for the recession."

Those loans would/could not have been made without a third party to sell them to.

Many went into CMO's, which I mentioned in Post 88.

CMO's were created in 1987, which I have already mentioned.
.

 

[Dad2three]

Dispute it

If you don't worship unregulated free market capitalism does that make you a traitor to America? Are you being dramatic?

But notice you worship your ism? Wow! Do you worship God or capitalism more?

The scary thing about this is that Republicans were calling for more regulation of Fannie and Freddie and Democrats were screaming, "leave it alone." Why was that? Perhaps these organizations are good crony vehicles.

Weird, DUBYA WAS THE REGULATOR ALREADY, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT RIGHT BUBS? Dubya's stopped regulation of F/F TWICE you understand Bubs? But NO, IT WASN'T F/F THAT CAUSED DUBYA'S/BANKSTERS SUBPRIME CRISIS!

 

[Mac1958]

Well, it's nice to see that evidently everyone agrees that proper, comprehensive, efficient regulation of financial markets is critical.

Yes, the video is right in that the GSE's were under-effectively-regulated, and yes, that played a role. But that's just the beginning, and only part of the Meltdown.

• The bankers who created, with the help of (I am NOT making this up) physicists, the abominations known as sub-prime CDO's to dangle in front of investors, pure shit securities
  
• The ratings agencies, obediently slapping AAA ratings (for a fee, of course) on those pure shit securities were also under-effectively-regulated.
  
• AIG, selling horrific Credit Default Swaps like candy to children without having to worry about pesky reserve requirements, was also under-effectively-regulated.
• Mortgage lenders granting spectacularly stupid 125% no-doc loans on anyone with a fucking pulse.
• Borrowers (yes kids, they were involved in this too) signing on the dotted line for loans they goddamn well knew they couldn't afford
• Borrowers (oops, there they are again) getting loans to pay off bills and then, as if they had no functioning brain matter whatsoever, immediately running up new bills

On and on, I know I missed a few. Both ends of the spectrum just love to point the finger at the other, as always.
.

Lets go one by one and debunk your garbage Bubs



"Yes, the video is right in that the GSE's were under-effectively-regulated, and yes, that played a role"


WHO WAS THE REGULATOR OF THE GSE'S IN THIS PERIOD AGAIN? Oh right DUBYA



Bush talked about reform. He talked and he talked. And then he stopped reform. (read that as many times as necessary. Bush stopped reform). And then he stopped it again

Testimony from Dubya's s Treasury Secretary John Snow to the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS concerning the 'regulation of the GSE's 2004

Mr. BARNEY Frank: ...Are we in a crisis now with these entities?

Secretary Snow. No, that is a fair characterization, Congressman Frank, of our position. We are not putting this proposal before you because of some concern over some imminent danger to the financial system for housing; far from it.


October 26, 2005

STATEMENT OF ADMINISTRATION POLICY

The Administration strongly believes that the housing GSEs should be focused on their core housing mission, particularly with respect to low-income Americans and first-time homebuyers. Instead, provisions of H.R. 1461 that expand mortgage purchasing authority would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers.

George W. Bush: Statement of Administration Policy: H.R. 1461 - Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

Yes, he said he was against it because it "would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers"


June 17, 2004

(CNN/Money) - Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.


Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004


BUT NO, THOUGH BUSH CRUSHED F/F (AS REGULATOR), THE GSE'S DIDN'T CAUSE THE BUSH SUBPRIME CRISIS



GSE'S AROUND FOR 70 YEARS DID THIS:

It's fascinating, the way you folks keep arguing with stuff I never said.

The minds of zealots, always an interesting study.
.

 

[Dad2three]

Well, it's nice to see that evidently everyone agrees that proper, comprehensive, efficient regulation of financial markets is critical.

Yes, the video is right in that the GSE's were under-effectively-regulated, and yes, that played a role. But that's just the beginning, and only part of the Meltdown.

• The bankers who created, with the help of (I am NOT making this up) physicists, the abominations known as sub-prime CDO's to dangle in front of investors, pure shit securities
  
• The ratings agencies, obediently slapping AAA ratings (for a fee, of course) on those pure shit securities were also under-effectively-regulated.
  
• AIG, selling horrific Credit Default Swaps like candy to children without having to worry about pesky reserve requirements, was also under-effectively-regulated.
• Mortgage lenders granting spectacularly stupid 125% no-doc loans on anyone with a fucking pulse.
• Borrowers (yes kids, they were involved in this too) signing on the dotted line for loans they goddamn well knew they couldn't afford
• Borrowers (oops, there they are again) getting loans to pay off bills and then, as if they had no functioning brain matter whatsoever, immediately running up new bills

On and on, I know I missed a few. Both ends of the spectrum just love to point the finger at the other, as always.
.

"

• The bankers who created, with the help of (I am NOT making this up) physicists, the abominations known as sub-prime CDO's to dangle in front of investors, pure shit securities"

TRUE, BANKSTERS THAT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH HAD OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITY OVER

"The FBI correctly identified the epidemic of mortgage control fraud at such an early point that the financial crisis could have been averted had the Bush administration acted with even minimal competence." William K. Black Sr. regulator during S&L debacle




Dubya was warned by the FBI of an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud in 2004. He gave them less resources.


FBI saw threat of loan crisis - Los Angeles Times



Shockingly, the FBI clearly makes the case for the need to combat mortgage fraud in 2005, the height of the housing crisis:

Financial Crimes Report to the Public 2005

FBI ? Financial Crimes Report 2005


The Bush Rubber Stamp Congress ignored the obvious and extremely detailed and well reported crime spree by the FBI.

THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION and GOP CONGRESS stripped the White Collar Crime divisions of money and manpower.

"Those selling the CDS's would not have been able to sell them if they had been required by regulators to maintain standard insurance reserves."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 35-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!

The SEC Rule That Broke Wall Street

The SEC Rule That Broke Wall Street


BUSH REGULATORS ON WALL STREET IN 2004 WITH A CHAINSAW 'CUTTING' REGULATIONS