A question for the Obama lovers who hated GWB or the GWB lovers who hate Obama

[LibertyLemming]

I'd like you to list, specifically, the difference between these two Presidents.

Off limits differences that I will concede:

Taxes (obama wants more mainly on "rich")
Don't Ask Don't Tell

Besides that show me how they are so vastly different that you can LOVE one of them and HATE the other.

Both are warmongers (for profit).
Both are big spenders.
Both grow government.
Both infringe on the rights of citizens.
Both received campaign donations from the exact same companies.

 

[healthmyths]

I'd like you to list, specifically, the difference between these two Presidents.

Off limits differences that I will concede:

Taxes (obama wants more mainly on "rich")
Don't Ask Don't Tell

Besides that show me how they are so vastly different that you can LOVE one of them and HATE the other.

Both are warmongers (for profit).
Both are big spenders.
Both grow government.
Both infringe on the rights of citizens.
Both received campaign donations from the exact same companies.

A) Bush LOVES the USA.. Obama hates the USA
B) Bush faced and YOU can't DENY this..these events that NO PRESIDENT HAS EVER FACED!!!
YET Idiots DENY the following and If YOU are an honest person who was around when these 3 EVENTS that have NEVER happened to any President occurred you must agree!


A) Didn't the marvelous dot.com ( that Clinton phony surplus bubble)* bust occur? YES! What did it cost?
1) $5 trillion in market losses which meant the taxpayers who had tax liabilities of $60 billion from 2002 and beyond GONE!
2) 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com busts....billions in payroll taxes!!!

Do YOU think those people that had $5 trillion in losses DIDN"T report those losses in their ADJUSTED TAX INCOME over the next 30 years which is what IRS allows?
For example if a Dot.com investor loss $1 million of that $5 trillion that means the investor has 30 years to write off against taxable income $33,000.
So Instead of having a tax on $1 million or at 35% $350,000 by subtracting $33,000 from $1 million that means taxes of 35% on $966,000 or $338,000 a loss to the US treasury of $12,000 from just this $1 million of the $5 trillion!
Or for every $1 million in losses $12,000 loss in tax revenue or on the $5 trillion nearly $60 billion in tax revenue for each year from 2003 and 30 years forward.

B) Did 9/11 happen??? YES what did that cost?
1) Then we had 9/11 which cost $2 trillion or at the above example another $24 billion in loss tax revenue from 2004 and next 30 years.
2)145,00 jobs lost in NYC alone due to 9/11... what did that cost? Billions in payroll taxes!

and regarding hurricanes... THE WORST SEASONS not hurricanes like Sandy SEASONS!!!
C) DID the worst hurricane SEASONS not hurricanes SEASONS occur? YES what did that cost?
Hurricanes cost $1 trillion.. at the above another $12 billion in loss tax revenue.
Collectively Federal tax revenue Loss due to the $8 trillion in losses nearly $100 billion a year from 2003 and next 30 years!

Then payroll taxes
Assuming 300,000 jobs lost due to dot.com bust -- 145,000 lost due to 9/11 (remember airlines didn't fly for 3 days!) 400,000 jobs lost due to hurricanes..
850,000 jobs lost.
So at say an average of $30,000 per job and Social Security and Medicare EMPLOYEE pays 7.65% or $2,295 paid by employee.. BUT I imagine you and many like you forget the EMPLOYER matches that and also pays $2,295 or a total of $4,590 paid in by Employee and Employer!
$4,590 times 850,000 jobs or near $4 billion a year due to those LOST jobs in Federal REVENUE!


AND ALL of this with a MSM that hated him!
Proof???

Well, our job is to bash the president, that's what we do." --
Evan Thomas responding to a question on whether the media's unfair to Bush on the TV talk show Inside Washington,
February 2, 2007.Newsweek's Evan Thomas: 'Our Job Is To Bash the President' | NewsBusters.org

But then when it comes to Obama???

I mean in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of God."
Evan Thomas on Hardball, June 5, 2009.
Newsweek

NOW you tell me if the MSM 's job per Thomas was to BASH BUSH... yet they think OBAMA is "sort of God"?????

THESE ARE the reasons that more and more historians when reviewing Bush and later Obama the STARK differences will become MORE Apparent!

 

[LibertyLemming]

iso rational non-copy and paste replies please

 

[healthmyths]

iso rational non-copy and paste replies please

NOT much of a refutation of the facts!
NO president EVER faced the crisises and catastrophes Bush did!
No President ever faced such a hostile, hateful MSM.

 

[LibertyLemming]

iso rational non-copy and paste replies please

NOT much of a refutation of the facts!
NO president EVER faced the crisises and catastrophes Bush did!
No President ever faced such a hostile, hateful MSM.

What the fuck is your point? You act like FDR didn't have a recession and war? Other Presidents did too. The point is that all of them, Bush too buddy, handled is like shit. So bad things happen and the President gets a pass for killing innocent people and waging war for profit? For taking tax money and literally handing it to CEOs lol? For stripping American's of massive amounts of liberty? I could go on, but I won't.

 

[blackhawk]

I'd like you to list, specifically, the difference between these two Presidents.

Off limits differences that I will concede:

Taxes (obama wants more mainly on "rich")
Don't Ask Don't Tell

Besides that show me how they are so vastly different that you can LOVE one of them and HATE the other.

Both are warmongers (for profit).
Both are big spenders.
Both grow government.
Both infringe on the rights of citizens.
Both received campaign donations from the exact same companies.

I don't really agree on warmonger but the other's I do. Bush was never a fiscal conservative and Obama is not moderate both got two terms mainly because they faced weak challengers than because they were great Presidents.

 

[LibertyLemming]

I'd like you to list, specifically, the difference between these two Presidents.

Off limits differences that I will concede:

Taxes (obama wants more mainly on "rich")
Don't Ask Don't Tell

Besides that show me how they are so vastly different that you can LOVE one of them and HATE the other.

Both are warmongers (for profit).
Both are big spenders.
Both grow government.
Both infringe on the rights of citizens.
Both received campaign donations from the exact same companies.

I don't really agree on warmonger but the other's I do. Bush was never a fiscal conservative and Obama is not moderate both got two terms mainly because they faced weak challengers than because they were great Presidents.

What if I told you I could prove to you (as much as one can rely on the media) that we are bombing more countries under Obama than ever under Bush? Our drone program is also much more active, they drop bombs though so same same.

 

[chikenwing]

Bush wasn't the race baiting class warfare king the Obama is,nor the gun graber,or the abortionist.Don't think he used a drone to kill a US citizen and his young son without due process,just some minor things like that.

Other than that about the same

 

[OKTexas]

Seems you've already discussed it among yourself, I wouldn't want to intrude.

 

[LibertyLemming]

You kinda got me on the gun grabber although there were certainly weapons that I wasn't able to possess, weapons I might add that are used to protect Mr. Bush. I think I should be able to protect myself with the same means.

 

[blackhawk]

The drone attacks are part of a war against terrorism that began when we were attacked on 9-11 more countries are being hit with drone strikes under Obama because Al-Qaeda and more of their off shoots are showing up in them. It seems we may have different views of what a warmonger is if we had never had a 9-11 which brought about the drone attacks and were still doing drone attacks I would be more apt to agree on the warmonger one. I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on that one outside of the one's you listed in your OP there really is not much if any difference between Obama and Bush.

 

[LibertyLemming]

The drone attacks are part of a war against terrorism that began when we were attacked on 9-11 more countries are being hit with drone strikes under Obama because Al-Qaeda and more of their off shoots are showing up in them. It seems we may have different views of what a warmonger is if we had never had a 9-11 which brought about the drone attacks and were still doing drone attacks I would be more apt to agree on the warmonger one. I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on that one outside of the one's you listed in your OP there really is not much if any difference between Obama and Bush.

Well, in my humble opinion, the problem is that we are also killing massive numbers of innocent people, women and children included. I'm also not 100% comfortable with 1 guy having the say over who dies. The whole process is very secretive and very disconnected from the public because it is done largely outside of the Legislative Branch. When does it end? When one man decides there are no more people thousands of miles away who would want to hurt us? Likely it stops when it quits being lucrative, which is never since every time some 4 year old kid dies and his brother lives we've created another "terrorist".

 

[blackhawk]

The drone attacks are part of a war against terrorism that began when we were attacked on 9-11 more countries are being hit with drone strikes under Obama because Al-Qaeda and more of their off shoots are showing up in them. It seems we may have different views of what a warmonger is if we had never had a 9-11 which brought about the drone attacks and were still doing drone attacks I would be more apt to agree on the warmonger one. I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on that one outside of the one's you listed in your OP there really is not much if any difference between Obama and Bush.

Well, in my humble opinion, the problem is that we are also killing massive numbers of innocent people, women and children included. I'm also not 100% comfortable with 1 guy having the say over who dies. The whole process is very secretive and very disconnected from the public because it is done largely outside of the Legislative Branch. When does it end? When one man decides there are no more people thousands of miles away who would want to hurt us? Likely it stops when it quits being lucrative, which is never since every time some 4 year old kid dies and his brother lives we've created another "terrorist".

No easy answer for that you sit back and do nothing or very little you give terrorist breathing more to plan bigger and badder strikes you go on the attack with the drones or other asset's innocent people are sure to die it's a damed if you do damed if you don't situation.

 

[LibertyLemming]

The drone attacks are part of a war against terrorism that began when we were attacked on 9-11 more countries are being hit with drone strikes under Obama because Al-Qaeda and more of their off shoots are showing up in them. It seems we may have different views of what a warmonger is if we had never had a 9-11 which brought about the drone attacks and were still doing drone attacks I would be more apt to agree on the warmonger one. I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on that one outside of the one's you listed in your OP there really is not much if any difference between Obama and Bush.

Well, in my humble opinion, the problem is that we are also killing massive numbers of innocent people, women and children included. I'm also not 100% comfortable with 1 guy having the say over who dies. The whole process is very secretive and very disconnected from the public because it is done largely outside of the Legislative Branch. When does it end? When one man decides there are no more people thousands of miles away who would want to hurt us? Likely it stops when it quits being lucrative, which is never since every time some 4 year old kid dies and his brother lives we've created another "terrorist".

No easy answer for that you sit back and do nothing or very little you give terrorist breathing more to plan bigger and badder strikes you go on the attack with the drones or other asset's innocent people are sure to die it's a damed if you do damed if you don't situation.

I suppose you're right but I'd rather be damned if I don't and have my money back.

 

[blackhawk]

Well, in my humble opinion, the problem is that we are also killing massive numbers of innocent people, women and children included. I'm also not 100% comfortable with 1 guy having the say over who dies. The whole process is very secretive and very disconnected from the public because it is done largely outside of the Legislative Branch. When does it end? When one man decides there are no more people thousands of miles away who would want to hurt us? Likely it stops when it quits being lucrative, which is never since every time some 4 year old kid dies and his brother lives we've created another "terrorist".

No easy answer for that you sit back and do nothing or very little you give terrorist breathing more to plan bigger and badder strikes you go on the attack with the drones or other asset's innocent people are sure to die it's a damed if you do damed if you don't situation.

I suppose you're right but I'd rather be damned if I don't and have my money back.

Maybe so but on the flip said I would hate to be sitting here one day debating how we let another 9-11 happen but if I had the answer to questions like this I would be in the halls of power not posting my opinions on a message board.

 

[LibertyLemming]

No easy answer for that you sit back and do nothing or very little you give terrorist breathing more to plan bigger and badder strikes you go on the attack with the drones or other asset's innocent people are sure to die it's a damed if you do damed if you don't situation.

I suppose you're right but I'd rather be damned if I don't and have my money back.

Maybe so but on the flip said I would hate to be sitting here one day debating how we let another 9-11 happen but if I had the answer to questions like this I would be in the halls of power not posting my opinions on a message board.

I think if we pulled out completely (no CIA, DOD, Drones, etc)of everywhere (Britian, Korea, etc) and pulled all foreign aid and then made a statement saying we no longer were going to be fucking with anyone at all as long as nobody fucked with us (actions, then words) that hopefully it could cease. At one point maybe... Or not. It would certainly be an approach that hasn't been tried in a really long time, if ever.

I try not to put American innocent lives on a pedestal over Pakistani or Afghani or pick your brown town lives. An innocent life is an innocent life. I do admit I sometimes fail at doing what I advocate.

 

[blackhawk]

I suppose you're right but I'd rather be damned if I don't and have my money back.

Maybe so but on the flip said I would hate to be sitting here one day debating how we let another 9-11 happen but if I had the answer to questions like this I would be in the halls of power not posting my opinions on a message board.

I think if we pulled out completely (no CIA, DOD, Drones, etc)of everywhere (Britian, Korea, etc) and pulled all foreign aid and then made a statement saying we no longer were going to be fucking with anyone at all as long as nobody fucked with us (actions, then words) that hopefully it could cease. At one point maybe... Or not. It would certainly be an approach that hasn't been tried in a really long time, if ever.

I try not to put American innocent lives on a pedestal over Pakistani or Afghani or pick your brown town lives. An innocent life is an innocent life. I do admit I sometimes fail at doing what I advocate.

That is a possibility but if memory serves the last time something along those lines was attempted Nazi Germany rolled over Europe and Imperial Japan through the Pacific some countries maybe most might go along with that but then there would be that few who would see that as their shot at conquest and we might just end up with a bigger mess. Calling it a night it's been refreshing to discuss something without the usual name calling and insults.

 

[healthmyths]

iso rational non-copy and paste replies please

NOT much of a refutation of the facts!
NO president EVER faced the crisises and catastrophes Bush did!
No President ever faced such a hostile, hateful MSM.

What the fuck is your point? You act like FDR didn't have a recession and war? Other Presidents did too. The point is that all of them, Bush too buddy, handled is like shit. So bad things happen and the President gets a pass for killing innocent people and waging war for profit? For taking tax money and literally handing it to CEOs lol? For stripping American's of massive amounts of liberty? I could go on, but I won't.

A) FDR depression YES! AND EVERY ONE GIVES CREDIT!
BUT NO where near $5 trillion in losses that the dot.com bust had! NO where that the ensuing years taxpayers reduced by $66 billion what they PAID as what happened to Bush!
YET NO one seems to remember that! YOU remember FDR/Depression and applaud him!! And rightfully so!

BUT Bush?? Do you even KNOW how much distress to the economy the dot.com bust caused???

B) Pearl Harbor YES FDR! NO one forgets that right?
But how many times in this forum except for ME is there any comments about the COST of 9/11? Pearl Harbor.. 2,402 Americans were killed died! 1,282 wounded.
Cost economically NO where near the $2 trillion 9/11 costs!
AND YOU NEVER saw this type of damage at Pearl Harbor!!!

Days the New York Stock Exchange was closed: 6
Point drop in the Dow Jones industrial average when the NYSE reopened: 684.81
Days after 9/11 that the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan: 26
Economic loss to New York in month following the attacks: $105 billion
Estimated cost of cleanup: $600 million
Total FEMA money spent on the emergency: $970 million
Estimated amount donated to 9/11 charities: $1.4 billion
Estimated amount of insurance paid worldwide related to 9/11: $40.2 billion
Estimated amount of money needed to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $7.5 billion
Amount of money granted by U.S. government to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $4.55 billion

AND NOT ONE of the MSM criticized FDR after Pearl Harbor! NO one accused FDR of LYING about Pearl Harbor in the MSM!!!

BUT BUSH????? "Bush Lied People Died"!!!!!!!!!!!
There was absolutely NO reason to go to war with Germany was there? But we did!

Finally WHERE WERE THE WORST HURRICANE SEASONS during FDR????
The years 2001 to 2008 WERE THE WORST SEASONs in history! FACT!
Of the top 36 hurricanes since 1926 13 occurred from 2001 to 2008.
Of the total of $316 billion in damages these 13 cost 58% of that or $156 billion.
# 1Katrina (LA/MS/AL/SE FL) 2005 3 $81,000,000,000
# 3 through 7 hurricanes occurred from 2001 to 2008!
Costliest U.S. Hurricanes | Weather Underground
a) There were 26 named storms in 2005, surpassing the record of 21 set in 1933
b) Three of the hurricanes in the 2005 season reached Category 5 status, meaning they had wind speeds
greater than 155 mph at some point during the arc of the storm.
but we've never had three," said Steve Kiser, a tropical cyclone program manger at the National Weather Service.
C) DID the worst hurricane SEASONS not hurricanes SEASONS occur? YES what did that cost?
1) $1 trillion in losses meaning $33 billion a year in reduced tax revenues!
2) 400,000 jobs due to Hurricanes Katrina/Rita

AND again... what did FDR ever face of such magnitude??? Drought???? Might consider that... but no where near the lives lost or costs of the above hurricanes!

SO pit FDR against GWB YES! and within 10 years historians will be calling Bush a "GREAT" President... and even greater compared to Obama!

 

[LibertyLemming]

Maybe so but on the flip said I would hate to be sitting here one day debating how we let another 9-11 happen but if I had the answer to questions like this I would be in the halls of power not posting my opinions on a message board.

I think if we pulled out completely (no CIA, DOD, Drones, etc)of everywhere (Britian, Korea, etc) and pulled all foreign aid and then made a statement saying we no longer were going to be fucking with anyone at all as long as nobody fucked with us (actions, then words) that hopefully it could cease. At one point maybe... Or not. It would certainly be an approach that hasn't been tried in a really long time, if ever.

I try not to put American innocent lives on a pedestal over Pakistani or Afghani or pick your brown town lives. An innocent life is an innocent life. I do admit I sometimes fail at doing what I advocate.

That is a possibility but if memory serves the last time something along those lines was attempted Nazi Germany rolled over Europe and Imperial Japan through the Pacific some countries maybe most might go along with that but then there would be that few who would see that as their shot at conquest and we might just end up with a bigger mess. Calling it a night it's been refreshing to discuss something without the usual name calling and insults.

Well, when a country attacks us we can respond with a lot of might, even more so than now because we would not be so extended. For now we are chasing a never ending terrorist because each one we kill creates another one at the least.

 

[healthmyths]

The drone attacks are part of a war against terrorism that began when we were attacked on 9-11 more countries are being hit with drone strikes under Obama because Al-Qaeda and more of their off shoots are showing up in them. It seems we may have different views of what a warmonger is if we had never had a 9-11 which brought about the drone attacks and were still doing drone attacks I would be more apt to agree on the warmonger one. I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on that one outside of the one's you listed in your OP there really is not much if any difference between Obama and Bush.

Well, in my humble opinion, the problem is that we are also killing massive numbers of innocent people, women and children included. I'm also not 100% comfortable with 1 guy having the say over who dies. The whole process is very secretive and very disconnected from the public because it is done largely outside of the Legislative Branch. When does it end? When one man decides there are no more people thousands of miles away who would want to hurt us? Likely it stops when it quits being lucrative, which is never since every time some 4 year old kid dies and his brother lives we've created another "terrorist".

WUSSIES!!!!

Collateral DAMAGE in WWI and WWII was expected!

GEEZ Hiroshima/Dresden... millions killed by ALLIED forces!

But now the enemy is laughing so hard at the USA military when they find the troops have to and this is NOT a joke it is for real!!!

"One soldier shows me the list of new regulations the platoon was given.
“Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads.

For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...#ixzz0raavCuPp

And then we have this story about our Last Medal of Honor winner!!!
Dakota Meyer rightfully won the Medal of Honor .. no question..
.........but the traitor Obama that put around his neck ,CAUSED the deaths of the Marines!

How can Obama do that when HE KNOWS his orders got the Marines killed!
Here is why.. Obama's NEW rules of engagements did the following:

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties,
rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."
'We're pinned down:' 4 U.S. Marines die in Afghan ambush | McClatchy
Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4-us-marines.html#ixzz1YsE0uM4h
U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, [/U][/I][/B]
rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."

NEW RULES of NOT killing civilians is making our military the laughing stock to the enemy!