A Question for all Religious posters

[Cecilie1200]

What the hezzli shizzle fuck? You don't have the first damn clue what you are talking about. All mainstream religions are political structures. Can you name a single non-Christian religious Federally and State recognized holiday in the US? What the hell is going on? How can people make statements that are so unbelievably out of whack with Politics 101?

So the fact that recognized religious holidays in a nation that is 95% or so Christian are also Christian makes Christianity a political structure? Are you really this big a dumbfuck? What holidays would you EXPECT the government to close its offices and give its employees off? Jewish, which comprises maybe 1-3% of the population?

I know it just galls you and your cohorts, but this nation was founded by people from Christian denominations and remains culturally Christian. The fact that the government recognizes this about its constituents doesn't exactly equate to making Christianity political.

I was referencing one minor aspect. Religion has always been a political structure. Always. Do you not remember how the evangelical bloc didn't support the mccain ticket till that tart got nominated?

We are also not a "culturally" Christian nation. There is nothing Christian about imperialism, greed, and using Jesus' name to go gay bashing. Those are just a few issues. Would you like to delve a little deeper?

That doesn't make Christianity, or religion in general, a political structure, you twit. That makes THOSE PEOPLE politically active, in addition to being religious. And "evangelical bloc"? What the fuck is that? Anyone who thinks evangelicals march in some political lockstep with each other, the way several Democrat groups - blacks, for example - do doesn't actually know any evangelicals.

We most certainly ARE culturally Christian, but thanks for demonstrating my point about how much it galls you. I'm not interested in you wandering off on a tangent with this so that you can shoehorn your "Americans suck, America sucks, look at how much you people don't measure up to my socialist values" rant in. Our culture is based in Christianity. Period. You can throw out all the unrelated, irrelevant PC buzzwords that you want, but all that does is make you look as ignorant, incoherent, and unable to discuss intelligently as we all know you are, anyway.

Call me when you stop frothing at the mouth and return to the same general area as the conversation.

 

[CurveLight]

So the fact that recognized religious holidays in a nation that is 95% or so Christian are also Christian makes Christianity a political structure? Are you really this big a dumbfuck? What holidays would you EXPECT the government to close its offices and give its employees off? Jewish, which comprises maybe 1-3% of the population?

I know it just galls you and your cohorts, but this nation was founded by people from Christian denominations and remains culturally Christian. The fact that the government recognizes this about its constituents doesn't exactly equate to making Christianity political.

I was referencing one minor aspect. Religion has always been a political structure. Always. Do you not remember how the evangelical bloc didn't support the mccain ticket till that tart got nominated?

We are also not a "culturally" Christian nation. There is nothing Christian about imperialism, greed, and using Jesus' name to go gay bashing. Those are just a few issues. Would you like to delve a little deeper?

That doesn't make Christianity, or religion in general, a political structure, you twit. That makes THOSE PEOPLE politically active, in addition to being religious. And "evangelical bloc"? What the fuck is that? Anyone who thinks evangelicals march in some political lockstep with each other, the way several Democrat groups - blacks, for example - do doesn't actually know any evangelicals.

We most certainly ARE culturally Christian, but thanks for demonstrating my point about how much it galls you. I'm not interested in you wandering off on a tangent with this so that you can shoehorn your "Americans suck, America sucks, look at how much you people don't measure up to my socialist values" rant in. Our culture is based in Christianity. Period. You can throw out all the unrelated, irrelevant PC buzzwords that you want, but all that does is make you look as ignorant, incoherent, and unable to discuss intelligently as we all know you are, anyway.

Call me when you stop frothing at the mouth and return to the same general area as the conversation.

What makes us "Culturally" Christian? You've labeled me as some frothing socialist without knowing who I am so immediately we can eliminate humility. Religion has always been a political structure and has historically run the State. Christian theocracies were here long before Islam. Anyone who tries to claim Islam is a political structure but Christianity is not is most certainly ignorant of the history and modern roles of religion.

As for the evangelical bloc.....that is referring to specifically the Christian Right and that group is pathetically lockstep and blooming with hypocrisy. If you are going to claim that group is not a political structure then I have nothing more to say because it would be a waste of time......like trying to pour five gallons of information into a shot glass.

 

[Yukon]

Jesus, the Son of God, was a socialist according to American definitions.

 

[CurveLight]

Jesus, the Son of God, was a socialist according to American definitions.

Which definition?

 

[Yukon]

The GOP mantra: Help the sick who cant afford medical insurance and you are socialist

 

[CurveLight]

The GOP mantra: Help the sick who cant afford medical insurance and you are socialist

By most common defs he was not a socialist.

 

[AllieBaba]

The GOP mantra: Help the sick who cant afford medical insurance and you are socialist

Yeah, exactly where did you find that in the bible, dweeb?

The GOP want to help the sick, and we do help the sick. We don't want the government to do it. There's a difference between doing things of your own free will, and having money stolen from you to be distributed as a few anti-Christians see fit.

 

[CurveLight]

The GOP mantra: Help the sick who cant afford medical insurance and you are socialist

Yeah, exactly where did you find that in the bible, dweeb?

The GOP want to help the sick, and we do help the sick. We don't want the government to do it. There's a difference between doing things of your own free will, and having money stolen from you to be distributed as a few anti-Christians see fit.

Many of us in the GOP do help those in need but we can't ignore the influences of the anti-Christian and anti-American groups within our Party. The Christian Right and neocons spend the majority of their time hammering two issues:

Agree with us in the WOT or you are the enemy.

Gays cause earthquakes, floods, and are largely responsible for socks lost in the dryer. I've also seen it claimed gays go into 24 hour grocery stores in the wee hours of the morning to loosen a bolt on one wheel of grocery carts so shoppers can't go "straight" down the aisle.

 

[AllieBaba]

I was referencing one minor aspect. Religion has always been a political structure. Always. Do you not remember how the evangelical bloc didn't support the mccain ticket till that tart got nominated?

We are also not a "culturally" Christian nation. There is nothing Christian about imperialism, greed, and using Jesus' name to go gay bashing. Those are just a few issues. Would you like to delve a little deeper?

That doesn't make Christianity, or religion in general, a political structure, you twit. That makes THOSE PEOPLE politically active, in addition to being religious. And "evangelical bloc"? What the fuck is that? Anyone who thinks evangelicals march in some political lockstep with each other, the way several Democrat groups - blacks, for example - do doesn't actually know any evangelicals.

We most certainly ARE culturally Christian, but thanks for demonstrating my point about how much it galls you. I'm not interested in you wandering off on a tangent with this so that you can shoehorn your "Americans suck, America sucks, look at how much you people don't measure up to my socialist values" rant in. Our culture is based in Christianity. Period. You can throw out all the unrelated, irrelevant PC buzzwords that you want, but all that does is make you look as ignorant, incoherent, and unable to discuss intelligently as we all know you are, anyway.

Call me when you stop frothing at the mouth and return to the same general area as the conversation.

What makes us "Culturally" Christian? You've labeled me as some frothing socialist without knowing who I am so immediately we can eliminate humility. Religion has always been a political structure and has historically run the State. Christian theocracies were here long before Islam. Anyone who tries to claim Islam is a political structure but Christianity is not is most certainly ignorant of the history and modern roles of religion.

As for the evangelical bloc.....that is referring to specifically the Christian Right and that group is pathetically lockstep and blooming with hypocrisy. If you are going to claim that group is not a political structure then I have nothing more to say because it would be a waste of time......like trying to pour five gallons of information into a shot glass.

Read the constitution, and the Declaration of Independence.

We are culturally Christian because we are a democratic republic that embraces, within the structure of our government, Christian values and tenets, and because the majority of our people are Christian. Our national holidays are primarily Christian observances of events or holy days, our values as a nation are the values of Christianity.

 

[CurveLight]

That doesn't make Christianity, or religion in general, a political structure, you twit. That makes THOSE PEOPLE politically active, in addition to being religious. And "evangelical bloc"? What the fuck is that? Anyone who thinks evangelicals march in some political lockstep with each other, the way several Democrat groups - blacks, for example - do doesn't actually know any evangelicals.

We most certainly ARE culturally Christian, but thanks for demonstrating my point about how much it galls you. I'm not interested in you wandering off on a tangent with this so that you can shoehorn your "Americans suck, America sucks, look at how much you people don't measure up to my socialist values" rant in. Our culture is based in Christianity. Period. You can throw out all the unrelated, irrelevant PC buzzwords that you want, but all that does is make you look as ignorant, incoherent, and unable to discuss intelligently as we all know you are, anyway.

Call me when you stop frothing at the mouth and return to the same general area as the conversation.

What makes us "Culturally" Christian? You've labeled me as some frothing socialist without knowing who I am so immediately we can eliminate humility. Religion has always been a political structure and has historically run the State. Christian theocracies were here long before Islam. Anyone who tries to claim Islam is a political structure but Christianity is not is most certainly ignorant of the history and modern roles of religion.

As for the evangelical bloc.....that is referring to specifically the Christian Right and that group is pathetically lockstep and blooming with hypocrisy. If you are going to claim that group is not a political structure then I have nothing more to say because it would be a waste of time......like trying to pour five gallons of information into a shot glass.

Read the constitution, and the Declaration of Independence.

We are culturally Christian because we are a democratic republic that embraces, within the structure of our government, Christian values and tenets, and because the majority of our people are Christian. Our national holidays are primarily Christian observances of events or holy days, our values as a nation are the values of Christianity.

There are more circles there than all the rings around Jupiter. All that says is "We are culturally Christian because we are culturally Christian." ie. If I asked for some new testament references where Jesus advocated for a secular democratic republic you would come up empty. The majority of Americans claiming to be Christian with their mouths do little to demonstrate it with their actions.

So, using new testament evidence, please show us how America is culturally Christian

 

[AllieBaba]

Jesus doesn't advocate for any government. He advocates for Christians to uphold the bible and live by the law of the land...PROVIDED it doesn't contradict the law of God.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with what makes us a culturally Christian society. We are culturally Christian because the backbone of our country, the Constitution, looked to the Bible for guidance in creating a Republican democarcy. And because most of us are Christians.

Two different subjects. Try to keep from muddling things.

 

[Yukon]

Getting rich off the sickness ot others is disgustiung

 

[CurveLight]

Jesus doesn't advocate for any government. He advocates for Christians to uphold the bible and live by the law of the land...PROVIDED it doesn't contradict the law of God.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with what makes us a culturally Christian society. We are culturally Christian because the backbone of our country, the Constitution, looked to the Bible for guidance in creating a Republican democarcy. And because most of us are Christians.

Two different subjects. Try to keep from muddling things.

Where does Jesus say to obey the "Law of the Land" except where it contradicts the "Law of God?"


How did people find guidance in the Bible for creating a secular Republic? That doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible. If it does, please provide the citations.

 

[CurveLight]

Getting rich off the sickness ot others is disgustiung

Are you referencing Bill Oreilly or Ann Coulter?

 

[Yukon]

Coulter is the whore of O'Reilly, Rush Limpdick, and Glenn Beck. She is a puppet, no more no less.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I was referencing one minor aspect. Religion has always been a political structure. Always. Do you not remember how the evangelical bloc didn't support the mccain ticket till that tart got nominated?

We are also not a "culturally" Christian nation. There is nothing Christian about imperialism, greed, and using Jesus' name to go gay bashing. Those are just a few issues. Would you like to delve a little deeper?

That doesn't make Christianity, or religion in general, a political structure, you twit. That makes THOSE PEOPLE politically active, in addition to being religious. And "evangelical bloc"? What the fuck is that? Anyone who thinks evangelicals march in some political lockstep with each other, the way several Democrat groups - blacks, for example - do doesn't actually know any evangelicals.

We most certainly ARE culturally Christian, but thanks for demonstrating my point about how much it galls you. I'm not interested in you wandering off on a tangent with this so that you can shoehorn your "Americans suck, America sucks, look at how much you people don't measure up to my socialist values" rant in. Our culture is based in Christianity. Period. You can throw out all the unrelated, irrelevant PC buzzwords that you want, but all that does is make you look as ignorant, incoherent, and unable to discuss intelligently as we all know you are, anyway.

Call me when you stop frothing at the mouth and return to the same general area as the conversation.

What makes us "Culturally" Christian? You've labeled me as some frothing socialist without knowing who I am so immediately we can eliminate humility. Religion has always been a political structure and has historically run the State. Christian theocracies were here long before Islam. Anyone who tries to claim Islam is a political structure but Christianity is not is most certainly ignorant of the history and modern roles of religion.

As for the evangelical bloc.....that is referring to specifically the Christian Right and that group is pathetically lockstep and blooming with hypocrisy. If you are going to claim that group is not a political structure then I have nothing more to say because it would be a waste of time......like trying to pour five gallons of information into a shot glass.

What makes us culturally Christian? You mean aside from the fact that overwhelming percentages of our population have been practicing or professing Christians, or raised in homes with practicing or professing Christians, since our inception?

"Culturally Christian" does not mean actively espousing and practicing tenets of Christianity, dimwit. It means that our culture filters through a worldview colored by the teachings of Christianity, even when the people in question are not themselves Christians. Think about it. Most people born and raised in this country, whatever their actual religious beliefs, can make at least a half-assed stab at defining Christian beliefs and values. You yourself just did so. It was ignorant and half-baked, but it was in the general ballpark. You're sitting there arguing that America isn't culturally Christian because it doesn't live up to the behaviors that should be expected of Christian people. Do you even see the irony there? Would you - or any man on the street - be able to get that close at condemning Muslims for not living up to the proper, expected behaviors of Islam? Buddhists for not living up to the standards of Buddhism?

I mentioned to a Jewish friend today that you were insisting that American culture wasn't basically Christian, and she laughed at you. She said it's painfully obvious to anyone who belongs to another religion how inherent and unconscious it is.

Let me give you an example. The lead singer of the metal band "Disturbed" wrote a song about his girlfriend committing suicide and his struggle to deal with the feelings it raised in him. The song, recorded on the band's "Indestructible" CD, speaks from the point of view of Satan, talking about how the girl has gone to hell for committing suicide and attempts to tempt the man into despairing and killing himself in order to be with her.

I can't say for certain, obviously, but the band's lead singer is probably neither a practicing nor a professing Christian, yet he phrased his pain and confusion over his girlfriend in inherently Christian terms and viewpoints. Moreover, their fans are probably mostly not practicing or professing Christians, either, but none of them had any trouble understanding the song and identifying with it. There was no confusion about what was going on or what he was talking about.

Religion has always run the state? Really? Can you even name me one Christian theocracy? Religion has always had power, true, because people's beliefs have power. That's not the same thing, though.

Sorry, but the "Christian Right" as a political bloc is mostly apocryphal. Do a lot of Christians agree on things? Sure. Do all of them? Hardly. Even given that they start from the same core beliefs, Christians are notoriously fractious about the practical application of those beliefs. And they aren't even close to being in lockstep, nor is Christianity a political structure. As I said, just because there are Christians who are politically active and make their choices based on what they think their beliefs require doesn't make the beliefs themselves inherently political, any more than the fact that lots of women are politically active and make their choices based on what they believe is best for women makes femaleness inherently political.

And I like that whole "If you don't agree that I'm absolutely right, I have nothing to say to you" line. Obviously, the only people worth debating are people who don't argue . . . that is, if you have a position you're not capable of defending. Run along. I accept your surrender.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That doesn't make Christianity, or religion in general, a political structure, you twit. That makes THOSE PEOPLE politically active, in addition to being religious. And "evangelical bloc"? What the fuck is that? Anyone who thinks evangelicals march in some political lockstep with each other, the way several Democrat groups - blacks, for example - do doesn't actually know any evangelicals.

We most certainly ARE culturally Christian, but thanks for demonstrating my point about how much it galls you. I'm not interested in you wandering off on a tangent with this so that you can shoehorn your "Americans suck, America sucks, look at how much you people don't measure up to my socialist values" rant in. Our culture is based in Christianity. Period. You can throw out all the unrelated, irrelevant PC buzzwords that you want, but all that does is make you look as ignorant, incoherent, and unable to discuss intelligently as we all know you are, anyway.

Call me when you stop frothing at the mouth and return to the same general area as the conversation.

What makes us "Culturally" Christian? You've labeled me as some frothing socialist without knowing who I am so immediately we can eliminate humility. Religion has always been a political structure and has historically run the State. Christian theocracies were here long before Islam. Anyone who tries to claim Islam is a political structure but Christianity is not is most certainly ignorant of the history and modern roles of religion.

As for the evangelical bloc.....that is referring to specifically the Christian Right and that group is pathetically lockstep and blooming with hypocrisy. If you are going to claim that group is not a political structure then I have nothing more to say because it would be a waste of time......like trying to pour five gallons of information into a shot glass.

Read the constitution, and the Declaration of Independence.

We are culturally Christian because we are a democratic republic that embraces, within the structure of our government, Christian values and tenets, and because the majority of our people are Christian. Our national holidays are primarily Christian observances of events or holy days, our values as a nation are the values of Christianity.

It's not even just that. It's more that a Christianity-informed mindset permeates our culture, without us even thinking about it. Yeah, there is the fact that many of our holidays are secularized religious observances, celebrated even by atheists and people of other religions many times. We use unconscious references to Christianity every day in casual conversation, in an unconscious shorthand that no one who has lived in this country for a long time needs to have explained to them, even if they've never set foot in a Christian church in their lives. When we set out to understand another culture or religion, we automatically do it from a Christianity-based framework, because it's the religion we understand and are most familiar with. For example, many Americans erroneously think Buddha is a worshipped deity, simply because a Christianity-based culture has trouble initially comprehending a religion without a god. Even the people who condemn American culture and Christianity do so, ironically, on Christian-based grounds, for not living up to Christianity's espoused principles as well as they believe other things and countries do. They are themselves so steeped in a Christian-based culture that it never occurs to them that other cultures don't espouse those principles at all, or judge others by them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jesus doesn't advocate for any government. He advocates for Christians to uphold the bible and live by the law of the land...PROVIDED it doesn't contradict the law of God.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with what makes us a culturally Christian society. We are culturally Christian because the backbone of our country, the Constitution, looked to the Bible for guidance in creating a Republican democarcy. And because most of us are Christians.

Two different subjects. Try to keep from muddling things.

Where does Jesus say to obey the "Law of the Land" except where it contradicts the "Law of God?"


How did people find guidance in the Bible for creating a secular Republic? That doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible. If it does, please provide the citations.

Okay, first of all, what is expected of Christians is not articulated just in the specific words of Christ during His earthly ministry, but in the entire Bible, studied in context in its entirety.

However, Christ did say, "Do not think I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17) He Himself obeyed the laws of man during His time on Earth, such that no actual, actionable crime could be found against Him for which He could be lawfully executed.

Now true, this refers to Old Testament Jewish law rather than modern-day law. Nevertheless, the principle remains sound. Nowhere does the Bible instruct us, by word or example, to defy man's law except at such time as it conflicts with God's law, an occasion which I would interpret as choosing what is right and moral over what is merely legal, and is something I would hope any decent person would do.

As to our current form of government, it derives from our Founding Fathers' attempt to design a government and a society according to what they understood to be God's will for how people live. It does not require specific Biblical citations for "representative republic" to extrapolate things like self-determination and equality under the law from Christian teachings.

If you believe, as Christians do, that all humans hold equal value in the eyes of God merely by virtue of being His creations, then it follows that those who aspire to live by His teachings must also value others, and must create a society that does so.

 

[Newby]

Jesus doesn't advocate for any government. He advocates for Christians to uphold the bible and live by the law of the land...PROVIDED it doesn't contradict the law of God.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with what makes us a culturally Christian society. We are culturally Christian because the backbone of our country, the Constitution, looked to the Bible for guidance in creating a Republican democarcy. And because most of us are Christians.

Two different subjects. Try to keep from muddling things.

Where does Jesus say to obey the "Law of the Land" except where it contradicts the "Law of God?"


How did people find guidance in the Bible for creating a secular Republic? That doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible. If it does, please provide the citations.

Okay, first of all, what is expected of Christians is not articulated just in the specific words of Christ during His earthly ministry, but in the entire Bible, studied in context in its entirety.

However, Christ did say, "Do not think I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17) He Himself obeyed the laws of man during His time on Earth, such that no actual, actionable crime could be found against Him for which He could be lawfully executed.

Now true, this refers to Old Testament Jewish law rather than modern-day law. Nevertheless, the principle remains sound. Nowhere does the Bible instruct us, by word or example, to defy man's law except at such time as it conflicts with God's law, an occasion which I would interpret as choosing what is right and moral over what is merely legal, and is something I would hope any decent person would do.

As to our current form of government, it derives from our Founding Fathers' attempt to design a government and a society according to what they understood to be God's will for how people live. It does not require specific Biblical citations for "representative republic" to extrapolate things like self-determination and equality under the law from Christian teachings.

If you believe, as Christians do, that all humans hold equal value in the eyes of God merely by virtue of being His creations, then it follows that those who aspire to live by His teachings must also value others, and must create a society that does so.

Excellent post, you explained it very well. There is an excellent video done about our founding fathers and their religious beliefs and how they were a part of what they did whenever creating our founding documents, and how such christian men formed a government that allowed freedom of religion. It's the American Heritage series by historian David Barton, one of the best presentations I've ever seen.

 

[CurveLight]

Jesus doesn't advocate for any government. He advocates for Christians to uphold the bible and live by the law of the land...PROVIDED it doesn't contradict the law of God.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with what makes us a culturally Christian society. We are culturally Christian because the backbone of our country, the Constitution, looked to the Bible for guidance in creating a Republican democarcy. And because most of us are Christians.

Two different subjects. Try to keep from muddling things.

Where does Jesus say to obey the "Law of the Land" except where it contradicts the "Law of God?"


How did people find guidance in the Bible for creating a secular Republic? That doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible. If it does, please provide the citations.

Okay, first of all, what is expected of Christians is not articulated just in the specific words of Christ during His earthly ministry, but in the entire Bible, studied in context in its entirety.

However, Christ did say, "Do not think I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17) He Himself obeyed the laws of man during His time on Earth, such that no actual, actionable crime could be found against Him for which He could be lawfully executed.

Now true, this refers to Old Testament Jewish law rather than modern-day law. Nevertheless, the principle remains sound. Nowhere does the Bible instruct us, by word or example, to defy man's law except at such time as it conflicts with God's law, an occasion which I would interpret as choosing what is right and moral over what is merely legal, and is something I would hope any decent person would do.

As to our current form of government, it derives from our Founding Fathers' attempt to design a government and a society according to what they understood to be God's will for how people live. It does not require specific Biblical citations for "representative republic" to extrapolate things like self-determination and equality under the law from Christian teachings.

If you believe, as Christians do, that all humans hold equal value in the eyes of God merely by virtue of being His creations, then it follows that those who aspire to live by His teachings must also value others, and must create a society that does so.

You claimed Jesus advocates we live by the law of the land except when it contradicts the law of God. I asked for evidence he said that and you respond by completely avoiding providing any evidence.

Your literal interpretation of Mt 5:17 is completely nonsensical. If Jesus didn't abolish OT laws then Salvation by accepting Christ is not possible. So which is it? Are the OT laws still in effect or have they been abolished so that we can be reconciled with God through Salvation of accepting Christ?

It is also absurd to claim Jesus followed the laws of his day. Have you ever studied the NT? He broke many laws of both the Temple and the Roman Empire but he did it in a way that he could not be explicitly charged. A great example is the "render unto Caesar" episode. Ironically, many American Christians take the opposite of that exchange and use it to claim Jesus said to pay taxes. That is unbelievably way off base. He said to not pay taxes to Caesar but he said it in a way to avoid being arrested. When he was asked if it was lawful to pay taxes to Caesar he first asked to see a coin, which shows he himself did not participate. What was his answer? Give to Caesar's what is his and give to God what belongs to God. Some see that as saying to pay both God and Caesar. Absolutely impossible. There was no concept of separation of church and state. What belongs to God? Better yet....what doesn't belong to God? Meaning, if they were to give to God what belongs to God (which is everything) then what remains to give to Caesar? Nothing. If it was lawful to pay taxes to Caesar then it could not have been a "trap question." It was unlawful (even before Salvation) to pay taxes to Caesar because he was seen as a deity or false god.

Your last point about all humans being equal in the eyes of all Christians is mountains of milky way false. Christians in the US are the loudest voices of punishing gays. Thankfully not all of us Christians use Jesus to justify bigotry but unfortunately too many do.

So basically all of your claims thus far have not been supported in the tiniest way.