A Poll About Gun Control

[KissMy]

They need "stop and frisk" in Chicago. It helped NYC.

"Stop and frisk" is stupid. You can't open carry without being constantly harassed. Plus it does not reduce crime. It is unconstitutional & violates rights & personal freedom.

 

[eflatminor]

Plus it does not reduce crime.

You sure about that?

I'm not for it as an official police policy, but all evidence suggests it does in fact reduce crime...unless you'd like to offer something that refutes the official crime stats.

 

[FA_Q2]

Not to get into this debate, but.....what difference does it make if the SCOTUS IS right or wrong? Their decision is the end all on the issue and is deemed correct in the eyes of the law......correct?

Come on – get into it
That is the point after all, I need a good challenge!

Anyway, the point is that the first amendment protections over speech exist because speech is by far the most powerful tool in changing the government. IOW, if I think the SCOTUS is wrong, I am going to bring my case before the people and debate this until they either change my mind or I change enough of others mind to have real influence. The public discourse has real power to effect change no matter what the SCOTUS decides at one point or another. There is always debate and public discourse. Beyond that, perhaps through speaking more about the subject, I will see the light and understand what the court was stating to the point that I agree.

I will always take agreement through real and honest debate rather than submission just because someone said so. Just because the court makes a ruling does not mean there is an end to all debate; that only occurs when we all agree or the majority get tired of dealing with us damn annoying outliers

My agreeing or disagreeing has no bearing on the ruling.

That's one of the reason I think we need a Constitutional convention and make an amendment that gives the people the power to overturn a Supreme Court decision.

Tell me when has a Supreme Court decision not been upheld?

It’s not a matter of ‘upheld.’ The SCOTUS has overruled itself on several occasions. That is not unheard of thought it is rare. The court tries its damndest to get the ruling right the first time but that is not always the case. I can also state that the people DO have the ability to overturn the court – its called an amendment. We have that power but it is a really high bar to pas – for good reason. Right now you don’t see that possibility but I believe that is only because our politics has gone so far off the deep end. Most people would not recognize freedom if it smacked them in the face let alone be willing to fight for it. Servitude is much simpler, to our great detriment. At least IMHO. Or opinion, I might not be all that humble

In other words you can't find one instance where a SCOTUS decision has not been upheld.

You really should brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

I stated the fact that whether you or I agree or disagree is irrelevant. The decision has been made. I never said the decision couldn't be challenged or even reversed. I simply stated that agreeing or disagreeing does absolutely nothing to effect change.

You may not agree with any number of the laws on the books or decisions SCOTUS has ruled on but you are obligated to follow them or suffer the consequences.

Read my response again. We can do a LOT through public discourse and debate.

You might have to follow that provision but that does not mean that there is nothing that you can do.

You are NEVER powerless in this nation. At least not yet. That is one of the things that makes us so great.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

They need "stop and frisk" in Chicago. It helped NYC.

"Stop and frisk" is stupid. You can't open carry without being constantly harassed. Plus it does not reduce crime. It is unconstitutional & violates rights & personal freedom.

You would have a valid argument if open carry were allowed in either Chicago or NYC.

And yes, it does stop crime. NYC prior to the law was averaging 2000 murders a year, after the law, 400 murders a year. Quite a difference.

And no it's not unconstitutional according a SCOTUS ruling on the matter.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Come on – get into it
That is the point after all, I need a good challenge!

Anyway, the point is that the first amendment protections over speech exist because speech is by far the most powerful tool in changing the government. IOW, if I think the SCOTUS is wrong, I am going to bring my case before the people and debate this until they either change my mind or I change enough of others mind to have real influence. The public discourse has real power to effect change no matter what the SCOTUS decides at one point or another. There is always debate and public discourse. Beyond that, perhaps through speaking more about the subject, I will see the light and understand what the court was stating to the point that I agree.

I will always take agreement through real and honest debate rather than submission just because someone said so. Just because the court makes a ruling does not mean there is an end to all debate; that only occurs when we all agree or the majority get tired of dealing with us damn annoying outliers

It’s not a matter of ‘upheld.’ The SCOTUS has overruled itself on several occasions. That is not unheard of thought it is rare. The court tries its damndest to get the ruling right the first time but that is not always the case. I can also state that the people DO have the ability to overturn the court – its called an amendment. We have that power but it is a really high bar to pas – for good reason. Right now you don’t see that possibility but I believe that is only because our politics has gone so far off the deep end. Most people would not recognize freedom if it smacked them in the face let alone be willing to fight for it. Servitude is much simpler, to our great detriment. At least IMHO. Or opinion, I might not be all that humble

In other words you can't find one instance where a SCOTUS decision has not been upheld.

You really should brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

I stated the fact that whether you or I agree or disagree is irrelevant. The decision has been made. I never said the decision couldn't be challenged or even reversed. I simply stated that agreeing or disagreeing does absolutely nothing to effect change.

You may not agree with any number of the laws on the books or decisions SCOTUS has ruled on but you are obligated to follow them or suffer the consequences.

Read my response again. We can do a LOT through public discourse and debate.

You might have to follow that provision but that does not mean that there is nothing that you can do.

You are NEVER powerless in this nation. At least not yet. That is one of the things that makes us so great.

Again your reading comprehension skills are lacking.

 

[KissMy]

Crime has dropped everywhere regardless of "stop and frisk". Reduced IV drug use & illegitimate birth rate due to the fear or aids reduced crime more than any government policy.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Crime has dropped everywhere regardless of "stop and frisk". Reduced illegitimate birth rate reduced crime more than any government policy.

illegitimate birth rates have increased.

And crime rates haven't dropped everywhere.

Latest Statistics on Illegitimate Births

RISING ILLEGITIMACY: AMERICA'S SOCIAL CATASTROPHE

Chicago’s crime rate continues to rise

Violent Crime Up In the U.S. For First Time In Nearly 2 Decades

 

[KissMy]

Crime has dropped everywhere regardless of "stop and frisk". Reduced IV drug use & illegitimate birth rate due to the fear or aids reduced crime more than any government policy.

Two parent structure households create the best well adjusted children. Single parent & divorced households & unwanted children create criminals. The marriage tax penalty & LBJ's Great Society Welfare are what caused the soaring illegitimate birth & crime rates.

November 7, 1991, basketball legend Earvin "Magic" Johnson shocked the world by announcing he tested positive for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Within 2 months the number of people getting tested for aids was up 50%. Illegitimate birth rates dropped within 9 months due to gestation period after all the multiple partner unprotected sex stopped. Heroin & other injected drug use that had been soaring since 1960 slowed their accent. No businessman, scientist, political policy or abortion had any positive affect on these social problems until Magic scared the riffraff straight.

The way to wipe out the marriage penalty is simply tax married couples as if each spouse were a single person earning half the total family income. This "income splitting" approach was the law in the U.S. until it was repealed in 1969. That is when erosion of society began. You can see the change in marriage & divorce rates.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Crime has dropped everywhere regardless of "stop and frisk". Reduced IV drug use & illegitimate birth rate due to the fear or aids reduced crime more than any government policy.

Your own graph on illegitimate births shows an increase not a reduction. Do you even understand what "reduced" means?

 

[KissMy]

Crime has dropped everywhere regardless of "stop and frisk". Reduced illegitimate birth rate reduced crime more than any government policy.

illegitimate birth rates have increased.

And crime rates haven't dropped everywhere.

Latest Statistics on Illegitimate Births

RISING ILLEGITIMACY: AMERICA'S SOCIAL CATASTROPHE

Chicago’s crime rate continues to rise

Violent Crime Up In the U.S. For First Time In Nearly 2 Decades

Bullshit!!!

 

[KissMy]

The AIDS scare lowered crime around the world the same year it did in the USA.

Canada

Mexico

UK Britian

USA

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Crime has dropped everywhere regardless of "stop and frisk". Reduced illegitimate birth rate reduced crime more than any government policy.

illegitimate birth rates have increased.

And crime rates haven't dropped everywhere.

Latest Statistics on Illegitimate Births

RISING ILLEGITIMACY: AMERICA'S SOCIAL CATASTROPHE

Chicago’s crime rate continues to rise

Violent Crime Up In the U.S. For First Time In Nearly 2 Decades

Bullshit!!!

Rate of Killings Rises 38 Percent in Chicago in 2012

 

[FA_Q2]

The AIDS scare lowered crime around the world the same year it did in the USA.

Canada

Mexico

UK Britian

USA

How in the heck can you equate aids with lowered crime rate!

I don’t think that people stopped screwing for anything, least of all aids.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Some figures I just heard on the news and jotted down -

We have about 11K gun homicides per year but only about 250 self-defense related gun homicides. IOW, only about 250 'bad guys with a gun are stopped by a good guy with a gun'.

Of the past 42 of the mass killers, 32 would have passed a background check.

As much as we need background checks, they're not a guarantee of anything.

 

[Ernie S.]

Sort of.

Hypothetical:

You have 100 people living in a small town, and in order to be safe (lets not question why, as this is NOT the topic of the thread) they decide to hand in their firearms.
The only person who refuses to is a man who is known to be dangerous, and is not trusted.

So. Do you a) forcibly remove the guns from that one person in order to make everyone safe, or do you b) give back guns to 99 people to protect themselves from one person?

Hmm.... if this man is 'known to be dangerous' he should be in jail. He certainly shouldn't have a gun.

And in our society, the man would probably already have had his right to possess a firearm revoked, unless he lived in Chicago.

 

[KissMy]

Some figures I just heard on the news and jotted down -

We have about 11K gun homicides per year but only about 250 self-defense related gun homicides. IOW, only about 250 'bad guys with a gun are stopped by a good guy with a gun'.

Of the past 42 of the mass killers, 32 would have passed a background check.

As much as we need background checks, they're not a guarantee of anything.

Pure lies!

FBI data shows the Total Firearm Deaths in 2011 was 8,583 & only 1,271 were Felony Murder. That proves 85% of all shootings are likely justifiable homicide self defense. Furthermore, guns are used something like one million times each year for self protection.

 

[KissMy]

Children from broken homes 'nine times more likely to commit crimes'

 

[Ernie S.]

Some figures I just heard on the news and jotted down -

We have about 11K gun homicides per year but only about 250 self-defense related gun homicides. IOW, only about 250 'bad guys with a gun are stopped by a good guy with a gun'.

Of the past 42 of the mass killers, 32 would have passed a background check.

As much as we need background checks, they're not a guarantee of anything.

A shit load of bad guys with knives are stopped by good guys with guns. 2 for me, so far.

 

[Meister]

Some figures I just heard on the news and jotted down -

We have about 11K gun homicides per year but only about 250 self-defense related gun homicides. IOW, only about 250 'bad guys with a gun are stopped by a good guy with a gun'.

Of the past 42 of the mass killers, 32 would have passed a background check.

As much as we need background checks, they're not a guarantee of anything.

Pure lies!

FBI data shows the Total Firearm Deaths in 2011 was 8,583 & only 1,271 were Felony Murder. That proves 85% of all shootings are likely justifiable homicide self defense. Furthermore, guns are used something like one million times each year for self protection.

Research on this issue will always bare out the truth that guns overwhelmingly do protect private law abiding citizens against a perp.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Some figures I just heard on the news and jotted down -

We have about 11K gun homicides per year but only about 250 self-defense related gun homicides. IOW, only about 250 'bad guys with a gun are stopped by a good guy with a gun'.

Of the past 42 of the mass killers, 32 would have passed a background check.

As much as we need background checks, they're not a guarantee of anything.

How any crimes were prevented because an honest citizen had a gun?