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I think I have it figured out. A sniper's life was pretty short in the 20th century. In order to get a shot at an enemy and pick off an officer they had to put themselves in positions where they were vulnerable to other snipers and fire from ordinary soldiers. Vietnam snipers like Hathcock and Mawhinney operated close to the enemy and lived in the field for weeks with meager supplies. I'm not taking anything away from snipers in Iraq and Afghanistan. They lived pretty well in comparison to other conflicts but they performed an important duty in a war without uniforms. A jihad suicidal enemy could be considered a civilian with the stroke of a computer key if the media was inclined. The Pentagon was well aware of the Seal's Hollywood reputation so if they were placed in a position where civilians were the targets it might be more palatable to the news media and liberals if Seals pulled the trigger and not regular Soldiers. Why Seals ended up on patrol in the mountains is anybody's guess. Maybe we should ask the CIA.
The Navy is well established and the mission of the Army and Marines has been pretty much established and accepted for 200 years (even if Harry Truman tried to do away with the Marines). Navy Fliers are used to bomb land targets because Carriers give them the best proximity to the target and there are never enough planes to do the job in any conflict. The Navy keeps cranking out Seal teams regardless of the fact that their training is as specific as the UDT was in WW2. There is little chance of amphibious landings or a big Navy war on the horizon but the media has hyped the Seals way beyond their actual history. The bottom line is that the Seals need a job and the fat asses in the Pentagon who don't have any idea of how the hell to run a war against civilians latch on to the hollywood hype for political cover. When Seals end up getting their asses kicked in Afghanistan hollywood does it's duty and turns it into a victory because one Seal survived. There might be a shortage of planes in a shooting war but there is no shortage of snipers in the Marines or the Army. The Marines pioneered sniper tactics in Vietnam and Army Rangers (who rescued Seal Marcus Luttrell) are well equipped and trained for any mission in Iraq. Why put a Sailor on a roof in the desert?Why do Navy pilots bomb land positions? Try this on for size. Every branch of the military wants a piece of the budget and action. They duplicate equipment and missions in an effort to stay relevant and funded. Might also consider why we have the Marines and the Army.
I don't even know where to start with his. First off you have absolutely no idea what was happening behind the scenes logistically. For all you know a workup had to get dealt up ASAP and it was right place, right time.
Seals DO NOT go to the same basic at RTC with the rest of Naval personnel. Yes they are at the same command in Great Lakes but it's a completely different setup. They don't go through basic DC, firefighting, marlinespike, etc. It mainly consist of sitting in the locker room, getting chlorine poison from water time, and basic weight lifting. They still march to and from everything but thats where the similarities end.
From the moment they graduate basic, finish pre-buds, and graduate buds till long after their first tour you are taught one thing, "One team, one fight."
There are soldiers, marines, coast guard, and air force personnel on USS ships. There are soldiers, marines, coast guard, and air force personnel on the ground... and there are soldiers, marines, coast guard, and air force personnel in the air. You can even through in civilians from MSC contractors to combat oriented contractors. There are certain individuals who are qualified to do a specific task and it's a needs of the Navy or military concept. You have OS's from the Navy manning scopes while IA in the sandbox. You have air force combat controllers on ground in the box... why are they there? Well they are qualified to do it and the task required a qualified task force built up with qualified personnel. There are hundreds of Navy IT types working comms on convoys fully ready to defend themselves and their unit. They are trained to do it. They are trained to be there.
So why was Chris there? Because that's how it worked out. Why did DEVGRU get the UBL task? Because they were on standby ready to go. Could another spec ops division have accomplished the same thing? Yes. Hell maybe even some VBSS guys could have do it. Who know..
You have to understand you will NEVER find out the specifics.. you aren't cleared, have no need to know, and well to be brutally honest.. it means nothing that you don't understand it. That's why you weren't there or involved with the operations at hand.
I could go on for days but I have to go walk in circles for hours on end. Cheers.
First let me say that I have nothing but the utmost respect for the memory of sniper Chris Kyle. He was a true hero and he did his duty with the utmost skill. My question is what the hell is a US Sailor doing on a rooftop in the desert? Seals are trained as Sailors. They go through Navy Boot Camp and learn whatever boot sailors learn like tying knots and swabbing decks and they have Navy ratings. I read Luttrell's book and it seems that Basic Seal training centers around withstanding hypothermia and paddling around in rubber boats. The best example of a Seal mission was rescuing Capt. Phillips from the Somoli pirates but they have no reason to be on a rooftop in the desert or on patrol in the mountains. The problem for the Navy was that they kept cranking out Seal graduates and started believing the hype and since we haven't had a Navy war in 75 years they didn't have much to do so they expanded the mission. The U.S. Army Rangers and Special Forces are well equipped to handle sniper missions and the Marines have had skilled snipers since the late great Gy. Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was killing V.C. Luttrell's book indicated that the Seals aren't really that good at ground tactics since his patrol was surrounded and wiped out and the hastily formed rescue was wiped out before they got off the helicopters. Luttrell was ultimately rescued by Army Rangers while hiding out in an Afghan village rather than rescued Afghans in a battle as the movie suggests.
You don't enlist in the Seals. You have to be a Sailor and go through Navy basic training in order to put in for the Seals. Navy personnel (including future Seals) all go through the same basic training learning to swab a deck and do whatever else they need to do to keep a ship operating. Luttrell's book indicates that Seals are rather arrogant when it comes to other Military branches. They refuse to be housed with non-Seal personnel even in a combat area. It is a reasonable assumption that a Seal sniper would only take orders from Navy personnel. Therefore the Navy is literally calling the shots during an Army/Marine combat operation. It doesn't make sense if there are qualified snipers in both the Army and Marines.
You don't enlist in the Seals. You have to be a Sailor and go through Navy basic training in order to put in for the Seals. Navy personnel (including future Seals) all go through the same basic training learning to swab a deck and do whatever else they need to do to keep a ship operating. Luttrell's book indicates that Seals are rather arrogant when it comes to other Military branches. They refuse to be housed with non-Seal personnel even in a combat area. It is a reasonable assumption that a Seal sniper would only take orders from Navy personnel. Therefore the Navy is literally calling the shots during an Army/Marine combat operation. It doesn't make sense if there are qualified snipers in both the Army and Marines.
Negative. You sign a BUDS / SWCC / EOD contract at the recruiting station. If you signed a normal either undes or rate specific contract you then also have the option in the first week at basic to do a PFA for a chance at a contract but it's not guaranteed. If you DOR while in BUDS you then walk into a little room with a detailer who gives gives you the opportunity to fill a billet if one is available that is rate specific.. if nothing is available you go undes and strike for a rate or work your way through the BM rate.
In Basic special operations billets DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT do the same shenanigans such as general seamanship. They do bits and pieces but it's nothing like what a normal recruit will go through.
When you're in the sandbox you are on a base which is usually built by marines, seabees, etc. That area is then broken up into smaller divisions much like a small city. There is a reason specops operators are separated. Just like there is a reason same force divisions are separated.
No they do NOT call the shots. They are used in respect to their training and abilities. For example.. in the Najaf attack on forces they were running very low on ammo and medical supplies. There were both Army and Marine reinforcements in the the general area but the Bremer detail had little birds which were available for a QRF supply to the contacted friendly's. They flew in to a hot zone.. dropped mags on the rooftops with JDAM's and RPG's flying by their rotors. A few members of the Bremer details advance team also dropped below to help hold their position. These were civilian contractors... could others in the Army or Marines have done the same job maybe even better? Hell yeah but it made more sense logistically and without moments to spare a decision was made. Qualified individuals. Trained to do what they do. They accomplished what needed to be done. So yeah why where they there? Right place, right time. The uniform doesn't matter, same battle, same objective, equally qualified personnel.
Is that supposed to pass as an argument?Are you for freaking real?
Seals, formerly U.D.T. have a unique set of skills related to combat at sea. They were initially used to scout amphibious landing sites in WW2 and to clear mine fields and to counter sabotage to U.S. ships. Seal basic school hasn't changed much since WW2 according to Luttrell's book "Lone Survivor". The training centers around the ability to withstand freezing sea water and to paddle rubber boats sometimes while unconscious. There is no shortage of skilled Army Troops or Marines for large ground operations and Marine Recon and Army Rangers are well equipped for special operations like snipers and intelligence. The confusion in rank structure and supplies and equipment of Navy personnel operating in the middle of Army and Marine missions isn't worth the trouble. According to Luttrell the elitist attitude of the Seals who refuse to be housed with other Military personnel because "we might blurt out secrets in our sleep" just adds to the confusion. What's the point of using Navy Trained Seals an a land based mission? Give them something to do and reinforce the hype?
It was probably a mistake for Luttrell to get together with writer Patrick Robinson and divulge the training, the tactics, the names and ranks and the attitude of the Seals while we are engaged in combat operations throughout the Mid East. Didn't Luttrell think the enemy has intelligence networks who would use the information contained in the book "Lone Survivor" against us? Since "Lone Survivor" is in the public domain I'm not giving away any secrets. It's likely that the Seals are the muscle of the CIA and the CIA is running military operations along side or in spite of or even in conflict with the mainstream military missions. It's a different kind of war and the "intelligence" networks seem to be calling the shots while the administration is dazed and confused by the whole thing. Whether the CIA is competent to run military missions is anybody's guess. Note how effective the network was in Vietnam. Anyway it's likely that Seal Snipers are the assassination arm of the CIA. I'm not intentionally being critical but a Seal on a rooftop in the desert is probably briefed on likely targets by the CIA but can also pick off enemy civilian jihadists if the situation demands it.
It was probably a mistake for Luttrell to get together with writer Patrick Robinson and divulge the training, the tactics, the names and ranks and the attitude of the Seals while we are engaged in combat operations throughout the Mid East. Didn't Luttrell think the enemy has intelligence networks who would use the information contained in the book "Lone Survivor" against us? Since "Lone Survivor" is in the public domain I'm not giving away any secrets. It's likely that the Seals are the muscle of the CIA and the CIA is running military operations along side or in spite of or even in conflict with the mainstream military missions. It's a different kind of war and the "intelligence" networks seem to be calling the shots while the administration is dazed and confused by the whole thing. Whether the CIA is competent to run military missions is anybody's guess. Note how effective the network was in Vietnam. Anyway it's likely that Seal Snipers are the assassination arm of the CIA. I'm not intentionally being critical but a Seal on a rooftop in the desert is probably briefed on likely targets by the CIA but can also pick off enemy civilian jihadists if the situation demands it.
You do not know squat about a Sniper's Mission and who they report to for their Missions. You make up dumb unsubstantiated statements. Marine Snipers during Vietnam reported to Bn HQ Company. Sometimes they went out alone or were attached to us Grunts who dealt with the enemy up front and personal.
First let me say that I have nothing but the utmost respect for the memory of sniper Chris Kyle. He was a true hero and he did his duty with the utmost skill. My question is what the hell is a US Sailor doing on a rooftop in the desert? Seals are trained as Sailors. They go through Navy Boot Camp and learn whatever boot sailors learn like tying knots and swabbing decks and they have Navy ratings. I read Luttrell's book and it seems that Basic Seal training centers around withstanding hypothermia and paddling around in rubber boats. The best example of a Seal mission was rescuing Capt. Phillips from the Somoli pirates but they have no reason to be on a rooftop in the desert or on patrol in the mountains. The problem for the Navy was that they kept cranking out Seal graduates and started believing the hype and since we haven't had a Navy war in 75 years they didn't have much to do so they expanded the mission. The U.S. Army Rangers and Special Forces are well equipped to handle sniper missions and the Marines have had skilled snipers since the late great Gy. Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was killing V.C. Luttrell's book indicated that the Seals aren't really that good at ground tactics since his patrol was surrounded and wiped out and the hastily formed rescue was wiped out before they got off the helicopters. Luttrell was ultimately rescued by Army Rangers while hiding out in an Afghan village rather than rescued Afghans in a battle as the movie suggests.
I don't even know where to start with his. First off you have absolutely no idea what was happening behind the scenes logistically. For all you know a workup had to get dealt up ASAP and it was right place, right time.
Seals DO NOT go to the same basic at RTC with the rest of Naval personnel. Yes they are at the same command in Great Lakes but it's a completely different setup. They don't go through basic DC, firefighting, marlinespike, etc. It mainly consist of sitting in the locker room, getting chlorine poison from water time, and basic weight lifting. They still march to and from everything but thats where the similarities end.
From the moment they graduate basic, finish pre-buds, and graduate buds till long after their first tour you are taught one thing, "One team, one fight."
There are soldiers, marines, coast guard, and air force personnel on USS ships. There are soldiers, marines, coast guard, and air force personnel on the ground... and there are soldiers, marines, coast guard, and air force personnel in the air. You can even through in civilians from MSC contractors to combat oriented contractors. There are certain individuals who are qualified to do a specific task and it's a needs of the Navy or military concept. You have OS's from the Navy manning scopes while IA in the sandbox. You have air force combat controllers on ground in the box... why are they there? Well they are qualified to do it and the task required a qualified task force built up with qualified personnel. There are hundreds of Navy IT types working comms on convoys fully ready to defend themselves and their unit. They are trained to do it. They are trained to be there.
So why was Chris there? Because that's how it worked out. Why did DEVGRU get the UBL task? Because they were on standby ready to go. Could another spec ops division have accomplished the same thing? Yes. Hell maybe even some VBSS guys could have do it. Who know..
You have to understand you will NEVER find out the specifics.. you aren't cleared, have no need to know, and well to be brutally honest.. it means nothing that you don't understand it. That's why you weren't there or involved with the operations at hand.
I could go on for days but I have to go walk in circles for hours on end. Cheers.
I have no problem with individual Seals or the Navy Seal concept which is to engage in small maritime operations. Rescuing Capt. Phillips is a perfect example of the expert execution of Seal training. I can't get around the fact that the greatest Military in the world had to reach out to the Navy to find a sniper for a mission in the desert. Marcus Luttrell remarks in his book "I had to ask myself what Navy Seals were doing at 10,000 feet in the Afghanistan mountains". Damn good question Luttrell's book, "Lone Survivor" is a remarkable book about personal survival after a combat mission failed and the hastily cobbled rescue mission was destroyed. The movie had it's inaccuracies but if you were paying attention it showed two different Military branches with their own support and supply logistics trying to do the same job independently of each other. What was the Pentagon trying to accomplish? Did the mission in Afghanistan deteriorate into political hype by pretending that Seals were some kind of supermen? Obviously they weren't and their leadership seemed (according to Luttrell) ill equipped to support the Troops in the field. What was the rescue plan? Jump on helicopters and hope for the best?
