A Libertarian's look at Christmas

[Paulie]

Never mind the whole idea that the private prison system is driving the War on Drugs to be ramped up further.

I'll give you this one.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the companies running prisons lobbying their state and local governments to tighten drug laws even further.

This issue seems to present a conundrum.

 

[Modbert]

I'll give you this one.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the companies running prisons lobbying their state and local governments to tighten drug laws even further.

This issue seems to present a conundrum.

The War on Drugs is also only one competent to these private prisons. Remember how you talked about maximizing profit potential? That Juvy case is a great example of what exactly happens if we switch to private prisons.

The companies running prisons are lobbying the government to tighten drug laws further.

I haven't watched this but it seems interesting:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wJ47wqZ0xE&feature=channel[/ame]

According to the U.S. Dept of Justice, the number of offenders under age 18 imprisoned for drug offenses increased twelvefold from 1985 to 1997. The group most affected by this propensity for incarceration is African-Americans. From 1985 to 1997, the percentage of African-American young people put in prison increased from 53 to 62 percent.

Today, 89 percent of police departments have paramilitary units, and 46 percent have been trained by active duty armed forces. The most common use of paramilitary units is serving drug-related search warrants, which usually involve no-knock entries into private homes.

I'd highly recommend watching American Drug War: The Last Great White Hope.

 

[Paulie]

But why can't prisons be private, just out of curiosity? My state privatized the DMV and now not only are the employees NICE, but instead of spending all day there just to register your vehicle like it always was, you're in and out in 10 minutes now.

When there's profit incentive, there's efficiency incentive.

It doesn't trouble you that the power to give out personal and private info to anyone who records the license plate number of another motorist now lies in the hands of business owners and their employees?

Driver records are obtainable by investigative services, typically without the consent of a respective driver. They're not exactly medical records.

 

[Anguille]

Privatizing prisons would be good, in my opinion. The military is another factor, and probably the only thing I don't believe the market could provide in any significant way.

Privatizing prisons would not be good. Are you kidding me? Private Prisons are sparking the War on Drugs that all Libertarians should be against as more and more stories such as these come out:

Judges jailed for taking bribes from private juvie prisons to send kids to jail - Boing Boing

You'll have people trying to game any system that can be devised. But that's not an argument against more efficient private prisons.

You want people in charge of rehabilitating criminals which will he reased back into society who are more concerned with the bottom line and squeezing as much profit out of skimping on service than they are with risk to society ?

 

[Anguille]

Just let the liberals have their opinion, Kev.

I mean, I must be some kind of anomaly. I'm a libertarian and I donated a turkey to a charity drive being held by my local modern rock radio station.

Also, we regularly go through our children's toys and donate the ones that don't get played with anymore to those who are less fortunate. And clothing as well.

I also spent an entire morning and half an afternoon to make a beef stew to take to my church for a 'soup party' a couple weeks ago.

Does anyone have any ideas how I can tone down my greed? I'm feeling awfully guilty about it these days.

Paulie, your actions haven't proved that libertarians can be charitable, what they prove is that the old maxim, "Those with the least to give, give the most" is true.

So you don't believe that a libertarian being charitable proves that libertarians can be charitable? And you don't believe that libertarians can be charitable, ever?

Paulie doesn't give because he is inspired by libertarian dogma, he gives because he is a decent and nice guy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Privatizing prisons would not be good. Are you kidding me? Private Prisons are sparking the War on Drugs that all Libertarians should be against as more and more stories such as these come out:

Judges jailed for taking bribes from private juvie prisons to send kids to jail - Boing Boing

You'll have people trying to game any system that can be devised. But that's not an argument against more efficient private prisons.

You want people in charge of rehabilitating criminals which will he reased back into society who are more concerned with the bottom line and squeezing as much profit out of skimping on service than they are with risk to society ?

You want the criminals in Washington or your state capital in charge of the criminals in prison? I certainly don't.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Paulie, your actions haven't proved that libertarians can be charitable, what they prove is that the old maxim, "Those with the least to give, give the most" is true.

So you don't believe that a libertarian being charitable proves that libertarians can be charitable? And you don't believe that libertarians can be charitable, ever?

Paulie doesn't give because he is inspired by libertarian dogma, he gives because he is a decent and nice guy.

What does charity have to do with any political ideology?

 

[Anguille]

Just let the liberals have their opinion, Kev.

I mean, I must be some kind of anomaly. I'm a libertarian and I donated a turkey to a charity drive being held by my local modern rock radio station.

Also, we regularly go through our children's toys and donate the ones that don't get played with anymore to those who are less fortunate. And clothing as well.

I also spent an entire morning and half an afternoon to make a beef stew to take to my church for a 'soup party' a couple weeks ago.

Does anyone have any ideas how I can tone down my greed? I'm feeling awfully guilty about it these days.

Paulie, your actions haven't proved that libertarians can be charitable, what they prove is that the old maxim, "Those with the least to give, give the most" is true.

First of all, I don't have the 'least to give'. I'm not rich by any means, but even if I was I'd probably give more than you would think.

There are many wealthy philanthropists. Buffet and Gates come to mind immediately.

If poverty can be eradicated by private giving and rich people are all like Gates and Buffet why do we still have poverty?

 

[Paulie]

Paulie doesn't give because he is inspired by libertarian dogma, he gives because he is a decent and nice guy.

But this is precisely why it's ridiculous to say libertarians are greedy. People don't give in the name of their ideology. It's just something that's within a person, and it's completely independent of their political platforms.

Conservatives/libertarians believe charity should be voluntary. Many liberals however, believe that it should be voluntary and forced through taxation for whatever it is they think the money should be taken to spend on.

This issue really shouldn't be filthied by pigeon-holing it to politics.

 

[Anguille]

Privatizing prisons would be good, in my opinion. The military is another factor, and probably the only thing I don't believe the market could provide in any significant way.

Yes, relying on mercenaries to defend our National Security is a great idea. It worked well for Tuscany's city/states.

Try some reading comprehension, I said that I don't believe the market could provide for national defense.

But if it could, would you be for it?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yes, relying on mercenaries to defend our National Security is a great idea. It worked well for Tuscany's city/states.

Try some reading comprehension, I said that I don't believe the market could provide for national defense.

But if it could, would you be for it?

If I believed the market was capable of supplying the world-class armed forces the U.S. currently boasts I'd be an anarcho-capitalist.

 

[manifold]

This thread is a hoot!


I especially like how the bleeding hearts talk about selfishness as if it's an absolute. I wonder how they're able to pay for internet service since they selflessly give away everything they earn to help the less fortunate.

 

[Anguille]

But why can't prisons be private, just out of curiosity? My state privatized the DMV and now not only are the employees NICE, but instead of spending all day there just to register your vehicle like it always was, you're in and out in 10 minutes now.

When there's profit incentive, there's efficiency incentive.

It doesn't trouble you that the power to give out personal and private info to anyone who records the license plate number of another motorist now lies in the hands of business owners and their employees?

Driver records are obtainable by investigative services, typically without the consent of a respective driver. They're not exactly medical records.

I wasn't aware of that. Still I am very wary of turning over government functions and services to non democratic for profit entities. I think it will cost us more. We still have to pay for the work to be done, either directly to gov employees or to these middlemen contractors who will keep the lion's share of what we pay them and who will require even more supervision and inspectors and auditors so we can be sure they do the work we hire them for.

 

[Anguille]

You'll have people trying to game any system that can be devised. But that's not an argument against more efficient private prisons.

You want people in charge of rehabilitating criminals which will he reased back into society who are more concerned with the bottom line and squeezing as much profit out of skimping on service than they are with risk to society ?

You want the criminals in Washington or your state capital in charge of the criminals in prison? I certainly don't.

Whether they be criminals or not, at least they are criminals which we can vote out of office. Unlike CEOs.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You want people in charge of rehabilitating criminals which will he reased back into society who are more concerned with the bottom line and squeezing as much profit out of skimping on service than they are with risk to society ?

You want the criminals in Washington or your state capital in charge of the criminals in prison? I certainly don't.

Whether they be criminals or not, at least they are criminals which we can vote out of office. Unlike CEOs.

And how well has that worked out for us over the last 200 years? Not very well I'd say.

 

[manifold]

You want the criminals in Washington or your state capital in charge of the criminals in prison? I certainly don't.

Whether they be criminals or not, at least they are criminals which we can vote out of office. Unlike CEOs.

And how well has that worked out for us over the last 200 years? Not very well I'd say.

I happen to like my life and liberty. I'm sorry you don't feel the same.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Whether they be criminals or not, at least they are criminals which we can vote out of office. Unlike CEOs.

And how well has that worked out for us over the last 200 years? Not very well I'd say.

I happen to like my life and liberty. I'm sorry you don't feel the same.

Yes, that's what I said and/or implied.

 

[manifold]

And how well has that worked out for us over the last 200 years? Not very well I'd say.

I happen to like my life and liberty. I'm sorry you don't feel the same.

Yes, that's what I said and/or implied.

I know. That's why I replied as I did.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I happen to like my life and liberty. I'm sorry you don't feel the same.

Yes, that's what I said and/or implied.

I know. That's why I replied as I did.

I admire your first class critical reading skills.

 

[Anguille]

Paulie doesn't give because he is inspired by libertarian dogma, he gives because he is a decent and nice guy.

But this is precisely why it's ridiculous to say libertarians are greedy. People don't give in the name of their ideology. It's just something that's within a person, and it's completely independent of their political platforms.

Conservatives/libertarians believe charity should be voluntary. Many liberals however, believe that it should be voluntary and forced through taxation for whatever it is they think the money should be taken to spend on.

This issue really shouldn't be filthied by pigeon-holing it to politics.

I think all people are basically greedy. Liberals and socialists realize this and understand that leaving things up the goodness of people's hearts has never and will never eradicate poverty. Some Libertarians and conservatives may actually be naive enough to think that but must are just being disingenuous and hide behind that charity should be voluntary sort of phoney piety because they want to hold onto all the power and money for themselves and dole stuff out just enough to keep people from uprising but not enough so that actual equality can be achieved. Libs and socialists don't like to share either but they are more willing to do so if everyone is being made to share too.