A Koran Older Than Muhammad!

[longknife]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

 

[RodISHI]

I think from what I have researched there are original fragments of the current (Quran) Koran writings that predate the current culture and these fragments were found in Persia and Mesopotamia. The ones found there were written in Chinese. The Chinese also have ancient records reflecting the lion, lamp and the lamb of God.

In digs in the Land of Goshen in Egypt from what has been found it appears the Hebrew 'from the regions beyond' slaves were most likely of Asian decent.

The sons of Noah scattered throughout and lived in various locations throughout the ancient world. They wrote about their religious beliefs, visions, their kings and their holy people in their regional languages. Many times you can track down the same stories, locations or people that these various religions are talking about but use a different word form when it is translated to English. i.e. The ancient Mesopotamian Religion has written records that talk about the coverings of the wild man in animals skins who has great strength as that of the beast, who is tamed by a harlot. Also there is written record of a great flood and an Ark built. If I recall correctly it is in The Book of Jasher, that Ham makes off with the garments the Lord gave to Adam as a covering which Noah had kept in the Ark. The garments are then passed down to Cush and then to Nimrod who has great strength for he has Adam's garments that God made; he builds Nineveh the capital of Babel. Out in the field one day hunting game Esau slays Nimrod and hides the garments for he surely believes that Nimrod's people will be coming to kill him. Esau also sells his birth right to Jacob.

As the generations are moved or displaced and the tribes and factions are removed, mixed and mingled and rebuilt each acquires their own religious beliefs, factions and customs. Some things are tweaked a little here and there and some things are retained. It does appear though most of it will in time be all pieced back together though to give more clear and concise records of the ancient world.

 

[HaShev]

The fact that Jesus wasn't a singular real historical figure already made the Koran problematic especially when it mentions the harlot mother Mary (the wrong christ figure)and mixes her bastard son's role with that of the arch malakh.
The fact people never obey the Koran like in Sura 2:98 and the part about respecting and leaving alone people of the book is another problematic issue.

What I'm more interested in is finding any evidence the Vatican had it's fingerprints on that book, any evidence for the Vatican hand in helping to form the new texts, and not just by their forcing people into protectionism that helped form the new religion.

 

[shimon]

It might be extremely difficult to find out if the Vatican had their fingerprints in the development of the Koran as many years have passed since its inception..... I do not find it difficult to conceive that they did however as it paints Jesus in a good light......I would think that the Roman's that created the converged figure of Jesus wanted to expand their influence into the arab world and were having great difficulty in doing so.... So since the gospels worked so well in converting the non arab world into Rome's sway it made sense for them to experiment in trying to consume the arab areas as well.....I think though that their experiment did not go as planned and I find it interesting that since Rome(the adversary) has been proven that they changed the times and calendars etc etc then it does not suprise me there is a koran that predates Islam....

 

[irosie91]

The fact that Jesus wasn't a singular real historical figure already made the Koran problematic especially when it mentions the harlot mother Mary (the wrong christ figure)and mixes her bastard son's role with that of the arch malakh.
The fact people never obey the Koran like in Sura 2:98 and the part about respecting and leaving alone people of the book is another problematic issue.

What I'm more interested in is finding any evidence the Vatican had it's fingerprints on that book, any evidence for the Vatican hand in helping to form the new texts, and not just by their forcing people into protectionism that helped form the new religion.

I have questions-------muslims have told me that the KORAN
existed at the creation of the UNIVERSE-----It is not clear to me how the details of who and how muhummad and his merry men raped and pillaged was PRE WRITTEN -----but that's what I was told------My burning question is------is muhummad mentioned in this Newly discovered koran? Is anyone cooking a nice translation to be revealed to the world?

 

[aris2chat]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

the skin/paper might be old, but what of the ink? It is not so odd for something like skin to be reused. Christian documents were often reused. Velum gospels might under the right light so other text underneath.

I don't know the exact wording, but there might have been text in arabic of the bible stories recorded by arabs who had heard them. They might not have been word for word but the essence was preserved in the poetic script that was popular at the time.

Mohammad might have incorporated some of those stories into reciting the Quran. There is a lot of Judaism and Christianity in the Quran. There was an Abrahamic faith at the time Mohammad was growing up.

Carbon dating in not exact and can vary by 50 yrs either way. It's a ball park figure not an exact date and time it was begun or finished to the second figure. It often took years to finish a book. Paper and ink might have predated Mohammad but it was not actually written till his reciting began.

Sura in the quran are not by date recited but by the longest to shortest. Mohammad recited the Quran over more than 20 yrs. Some might have been written by followers along the way, but it would not have been complete. The completion and editing of the codex most know of as the Quran took over 150 yrs to be completed.

 

[irosie91]

Whatever is contained in that book----it will not touch
ISLAM and THE KORAN. All muslims know that the
Koran is perfect----never changed and anything that comes in
contact with either Christians or jews gets PERVERTED---
altered by the ENEMEEEEES OF ISLAAAAAAM

 

[irosie91]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

the skin/paper might be old, but what of the ink? It is not so odd for something like skin to be reused. Christian documents were often reused. Velum gospels might under the right light so other text underneath.

I don't know the exact wording, but there might have been text in arabic of the bible stories recorded by arabs who had heard them. They might not have been word for word but the essence was preserved in the poetic script that was popular at the time.

Mohammad might have incorporated some of those stories into reciting the Quran. There is a lot of Judaism and Christianity in the Quran. There was an Abrahamic faith at the time Mohammad was growing up.

Carbon dating in not exact and can vary by 50 yrs either way. It's a ball park figure not an exact date and time it was begun or finished to the second figure. It often took years to finish a book. Paper and ink might have predated Mohammad but it was not actually written till his reciting began.

Sura in the quran are not by date recited but by the longest to shortest. Mohammad recited the Quran over more than 20 yrs. Some might have been written by followers along the way, but it would not have been complete. The completion and editing of the codex most know of as the Quran took over 150 yrs to be completed.

aris------you seem-----very impressed with that "KORAN AS RECITED BY MUHUMMAD" legend ------I do not mean to be nasty and cynical-----but I never bought it. Just RECITED
to his friends------without notes-----in what is supposed to be
SUBLIME poetry. EDITING??? are you allowed to say that???

 

[amrchaos]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

the skin/paper might be old, but what of the ink? It is not so odd for something like skin to be reused. Christian documents were often reused. Velum gospels might under the right light so other text underneath.

I don't know the exact wording, but there might have been text in arabic of the bible stories recorded by arabs who had heard them. They might not have been word for word but the essence was preserved in the poetic script that was popular at the time.

Mohammad might have incorporated some of those stories into reciting the Quran. There is a lot of Judaism and Christianity in the Quran. There was an Abrahamic faith at the time Mohammad was growing up.

Carbon dating in not exact and can vary by 50 yrs either way. It's a ball park figure not an exact date and time it was begun or finished to the second figure. It often took years to finish a book. Paper and ink might have predated Mohammad but it was not actually written till his reciting began.

Sura in the quran are not by date recited but by the longest to shortest. Mohammad recited the Quran over more than 20 yrs. Some might have been written by followers along the way, but it would not have been complete. The completion and editing of the codex most know of as the Quran took over 150 yrs to be completed.

Let us not forget the story on how the Quran came about. It was said that a scholar had to collect fragments from people to piece it together. It is possible that some confused the Quran with material from other books.

Pretty messy work. Thinking like this tends to undermine the divinity aspects of the Quran--is it a miracle, or a bunch of perspectives from different people that long forgot what they were taught.

 

[irosie91]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

the skin/paper might be old, but what of the ink? It is not so odd for something like skin to be reused. Christian documents were often reused. Velum gospels might under the right light so other text underneath.

I don't know the exact wording, but there might have been text in arabic of the bible stories recorded by arabs who had heard them. They might not have been word for word but the essence was preserved in the poetic script that was popular at the time.

Mohammad might have incorporated some of those stories into reciting the Quran. There is a lot of Judaism and Christianity in the Quran. There was an Abrahamic faith at the time Mohammad was growing up.

Carbon dating in not exact and can vary by 50 yrs either way. It's a ball park figure not an exact date and time it was begun or finished to the second figure. It often took years to finish a book. Paper and ink might have predated Mohammad but it was not actually written till his reciting began.

Sura in the quran are not by date recited but by the longest to shortest. Mohammad recited the Quran over more than 20 yrs. Some might have been written by followers along the way, but it would not have been complete. The completion and editing of the codex most know of as the Quran took over 150 yrs to be completed.

Let us not forget the story on how the Quran came about. It was said that a scholar had to collect fragments from people to piece it together. It is possible that some confused the Quran with material from other books.

Pretty messy work. Thinking like this tends to undermine the divinity aspects of the Quran--is it a miracle, or a bunch of perspectives from different people that long forgot what they were taught.

no---it's a book written by the "intellectuals" of a generally illiterate people who were in contact with LOTS of generally
literate people. Arabic became a written language only about 400 years before the koran was written----Arabia was teeming
with "other people" ---- Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians ---probably even hindus and Buddhists etc etc who all had BOOKS. A good way to look at the koran would be-----imagine all the gypsies (lots of illiteracy amongst them) deciding to write a SCRIPTURAL TEXT since everyone else got them.

 

[aris2chat]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

the skin/paper might be old, but what of the ink? It is not so odd for something like skin to be reused. Christian documents were often reused. Velum gospels might under the right light so other text underneath.

I don't know the exact wording, but there might have been text in arabic of the bible stories recorded by arabs who had heard them. They might not have been word for word but the essence was preserved in the poetic script that was popular at the time.

Mohammad might have incorporated some of those stories into reciting the Quran. There is a lot of Judaism and Christianity in the Quran. There was an Abrahamic faith at the time Mohammad was growing up.

Carbon dating in not exact and can vary by 50 yrs either way. It's a ball park figure not an exact date and time it was begun or finished to the second figure. It often took years to finish a book. Paper and ink might have predated Mohammad but it was not actually written till his reciting began.

Sura in the quran are not by date recited but by the longest to shortest. Mohammad recited the Quran over more than 20 yrs. Some might have been written by followers along the way, but it would not have been complete. The completion and editing of the codex most know of as the Quran took over 150 yrs to be completed.

aris------you seem-----very impressed with that "KORAN AS RECITED BY MUHUMMAD" legend ------I do not mean to be nasty and cynical-----but I never bought it. Just RECITED
to his friends------without notes-----in what is supposed to be
SUBLIME poetry. EDITING??? are you allowed to say that???

When poetry or stories were passed, it is tradition to recite. Few people could read or right.
Mohammad was know to be illiterate.
It is fairly common to learn by memory to repeat over and over. Not so different from learning the alphabet or the times tables or night time prayers

 

[irosie91]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

the skin/paper might be old, but what of the ink? It is not so odd for something like skin to be reused. Christian documents were often reused. Velum gospels might under the right light so other text underneath.

I don't know the exact wording, but there might have been text in arabic of the bible stories recorded by arabs who had heard them. They might not have been word for word but the essence was preserved in the poetic script that was popular at the time.

Mohammad might have incorporated some of those stories into reciting the Quran. There is a lot of Judaism and Christianity in the Quran. There was an Abrahamic faith at the time Mohammad was growing up.

Carbon dating in not exact and can vary by 50 yrs either way. It's a ball park figure not an exact date and time it was begun or finished to the second figure. It often took years to finish a book. Paper and ink might have predated Mohammad but it was not actually written till his reciting began.

Sura in the quran are not by date recited but by the longest to shortest. Mohammad recited the Quran over more than 20 yrs. Some might have been written by followers along the way, but it would not have been complete. The completion and editing of the codex most know of as the Quran took over 150 yrs to be completed.

aris------you seem-----very impressed with that "KORAN AS RECITED BY MUHUMMAD" legend ------I do not mean to be nasty and cynical-----but I never bought it. Just RECITED
to his friends------without notes-----in what is supposed to be
SUBLIME poetry. EDITING??? are you allowed to say that???

When poetry or stories were passed, it is tradition to recite. Few people could read or right.
Mohammad was know to be illiterate.
It is fairly common to learn by memory to repeat over and over. Not so different from learning the alphabet or the times tables or night time prayers

so true recitation was the way to go ------back in the old days------in fact I do recall "learning" that people were aghast
at the invention of the printing press-----fearing that people would "forget" how to learn to MEMORIZE--------however---
the legend that muhummad mumbled his stuff and all his friends thus LEARNED IT PERFECTLY and wrote it out perfectly decades late------that sort of thing -----I suspect.
My very own hubby is from a land of ------sorta memorization----BUT ----a few years ago when he could not locate his prayer book for the Friday evening thing-------I said "Just say it ----you know it" he told me "NO!!!!" "My father always said never do it from memory-----that is how mistakes get passed on" (this stuff comes out of the classical shariah shit hole in which they were both born)

 

[aris2chat]

How can that be? Heresy! Certainly will cause hordes of Muslim scholars to rise up and scream, “Death to the Infidels!”



If I had anything to do with the University of Oxford's Bodlelan Library, I'd be demanding strong security protection for myself – and the library.



You all know that Muslims don't deal with this stuff gently.



Fragments of the oldest Koran were discovered last month in Birmingham

Carbon dating found the pages were produced between 568AD and 654AD

But several historians now say that the parchment may predate Muhammad

They believe that this discovery could rewrite the early history of Islam



Read more: Koran thought to be the oldest in the world could predate Muhammad

the skin/paper might be old, but what of the ink? It is not so odd for something like skin to be reused. Christian documents were often reused. Velum gospels might under the right light so other text underneath.

I don't know the exact wording, but there might have been text in arabic of the bible stories recorded by arabs who had heard them. They might not have been word for word but the essence was preserved in the poetic script that was popular at the time.

Mohammad might have incorporated some of those stories into reciting the Quran. There is a lot of Judaism and Christianity in the Quran. There was an Abrahamic faith at the time Mohammad was growing up.

Carbon dating in not exact and can vary by 50 yrs either way. It's a ball park figure not an exact date and time it was begun or finished to the second figure. It often took years to finish a book. Paper and ink might have predated Mohammad but it was not actually written till his reciting began.

Sura in the quran are not by date recited but by the longest to shortest. Mohammad recited the Quran over more than 20 yrs. Some might have been written by followers along the way, but it would not have been complete. The completion and editing of the codex most know of as the Quran took over 150 yrs to be completed.

aris------you seem-----very impressed with that "KORAN AS RECITED BY MUHUMMAD" legend ------I do not mean to be nasty and cynical-----but I never bought it. Just RECITED
to his friends------without notes-----in what is supposed to be
SUBLIME poetry. EDITING??? are you allowed to say that???

When poetry or stories were passed, it is tradition to recite. Few people could read or right.
Mohammad was know to be illiterate.
It is fairly common to learn by memory to repeat over and over. Not so different from learning the alphabet or the times tables or night time prayers

so true recitation was the way to go ------back in the old days------in fact I do recall "learning" that people were aghast
at the invention of the printing press-----fearing that people would "forget" how to learn to MEMORIZE--------however---
the legend that muhummad mumbled his stuff and all his friends thus LEARNED IT PERFECTLY and wrote it out perfectly decades late------that sort of thing -----I suspect.
My very own hubby is from a land of ------sorta memorization----BUT ----a few years ago when he could not locate his prayer book for the Friday evening thing-------I said "Just say it ----you know it" he told me "NO!!!!" "My father always said never do it from memory-----that is how mistakes get passed on" (this stuff comes out of the classical shariah shit hole in which they were both born)

In a place central to trade such as mecca, as in most major towns of that time, there were scribes t translate and create posts to be sent to other parts of the known world.
There were christian monks and jewish rabbis and scribes around both in mecca and other towns.

It is not improbable that mohammad or his followers could have dictated the reciting to one or more of them. Mohammad's first wife, being a wealthy business woman, might have had one or more on her employment. It was the same way in most towns and cities through europe and asia.

The followers to pass the words down and their own memories of mohammad began to hae the text written to preserve them. The arab were in wars of conquest during and after mohammad's death. It was likely that if they died so would the words. There was also a need to spread the word to those place they acquired as well. As followers spread, sura 1, might have been recited by one follower and each sura was the memory and responsibility of one or more of the others. Combined they were the quran. Separately they were each the barer of a sura or more.

Even during mohammad's life the different followers recited the qurans sura with slight variation. Mohammad did not disapprove. The words area like a poem or song, it has a rhythm and cadence.
Like hymn or carol it makes it easier to remember. It is probably why there are so many lines that seem to repeat. Sometimes you sing a song and get the words wrong but you keep singing along with the radio.

Why other variations came about is more complex and involves the split of the faith.

Think of the secret game where one person whispers a secret and then each in turn whispers that same secret to the next person. By the end of the line it is rarely the same.

The OT was an oral book for centuries. A collection of family stories pass down through the generations. The gospels were also.

Even during the Renaissance, literacy was not wide spread, but a tool of the religious, rich and powerful. When Charlemagne came to power, he was determined to learn to read and write. It was almost unheard of for anyone out side of the clergy to do so. Leaders till then relied on the church or a few scribes, often jews, to read and write and translate for them.

When the muslims came to power, it was the jews that did most of the recording, translating and preserving of the ancient works till learning came to importance among muslims in following centuries. The did not have the ability to read greek, coptic, latin, hebrew, etc. when the first conquered. The did not even set up their own administration but relied on local autonomous rule with a muslim overseer, in the first few centuries.

As it is said, so let it be written......

That was the way of the world back then.

The final codex of the quran took 150 yrs or so to complete and edit. Like the codex of the bible, it was edited for political reasons more than religious.

That a few sura are dated from around the time of Mohammad is a gift of antiquity, but it is not a compete quran. Much of the stories of the quran come from judaism and christianity. The stories could have been reworked to the language and style of the time. Think of bible verses and stories being made into hymn, song or rap so the modern person could remember. Have you ever heard the story of the soldier and the deck of cards? Even the skies can be used to 'read' the stories of the bible. It is much the same as a mnemonic that kids in school would use.

That is just the way things were back them. Contracts and promises were oral and passed down for later dates or the next generation. Words were important and since they carried less 'facts' in the heads it was easier and necessary to repeat and recite exact words.

 

[irosie91]

thanks ARIS-------excellent and cogent description of THE WAY WE WERE -------so when and why did muslims develope the Muhummad was completely illiterate myth and the koran was never written -------all his pals MEMORIZED IT LINE BY LINE---and miracles of miracles ---without a word out of place or varied---------for 100 years?. For the record-----I have never encountered a person of normal intellect who had contact with LITERATE people---completely illiterate. Even dyslexic persons---can do more than muslims claim muhummad could manage. ----but he was a BRILLIANT guy ----who did business for many years--------and somehow his brain never grasped the concept of the WRITTEN word. I have encountered some Pakistani girls completely illiterate-------but they were of the SECLUDED variety. The pals were not
presented as illiterate------they made notes on scraps-----
according to legend. Don't tell anyone jews and Christians
did it for them -------you risk your head

 

[longknife]

I still don't understand how Muhammad was a prophet of God is his words existed BEFORE he supposedly received those words.

And what was the "sacred rock" thing all about?

 

[aris2chat]

I still don't understand how Muhammad was a prophet of God is his words existed BEFORE he supposedly received those words.

And what was the "sacred rock" thing all about?

I don't personally believe Mohammad received all the "words". The whole direction changes after his first wife dies. She, or those who scribed for her, might have interpreted his visions but the later years I think he was more improving and trying to meet a need of his followers. To direct raids, or organize beyond just a practical belief but into a skeleton of an army and government.

JMHO

There is a very different tone to sura in later years. It seems almost like a different person is reciting them

In the beginning, he was afraid of the visions. Later they seem to be more matter of fact and more formed to the immediate situation or need.

behind every great man............

I think he lost his moral and spiritual support and kind of made it up as he went along, after that point.

It is conjecture, but is seems reasonable to explain the two Mohammads

The quran codex is not in the order the sura were given, but rather from longest to shortest. If you read them in the correct order the before and after becomes more striking.

 

[irosie91]

I still don't understand how Muhammad was a prophet of God is his words existed BEFORE he supposedly received those words.

And what was the "sacred rock" thing all about?

the rock was already in Mecca and already "sacred"-------and even the custom of pilgrimage TO THE ROCK in mecca and walking around it. Muhummad simply INCORPORATED the
old thing into HIS new religion in which he made himself the KING. The RATIONALE was later TACKED ON------the rock is supposed to date back to the FIRST MUSLIM-------Adam----and it was schlepped to MECCA by ABRAHAM and ISHMAEL-------see----now you know. The old time religion of arabia was a rock worshipping thing----

 

[HaShev]

The Sheva (7) number of times they walk around the Rock given to them by Michael as a sign to them should be significant, don't you think?
Focus for a reason....otherwise it's just idol worship.

 

[aris2chat]

I still don't understand how Muhammad was a prophet of God is his words existed BEFORE he supposedly received those words.

And what was the "sacred rock" thing all about?

the rock was already in Mecca and already "sacred"-------and even the custom of pilgrimage TO THE ROCK in mecca and walking around it. Muhummad simply INCORPORATED the
old thing into HIS new religion in which he made himself the KING. The RATIONALE was later TACKED ON------the rock is supposed to date back to the FIRST MUSLIM-------Adam----and it was schlepped to MECCA by ABRAHAM and ISHMAEL-------see----now you know. The old time religion of arabia was a rock worshipping thing----

So the myth goes....Adam found the rock in Sri Lanka and brought the stone and laid it in Mecca

It has been there a long, with the exception of when a rival group of muslim stole for almost a century.

There were some 365 gods and goddesses in the kabah where the rock was before mohammad relaid the stone.

 

[Blackrook]

I don't care. I think the Koran is piece of garbage no matter where it came from. People who think the Koran is the only source of wisdom are idiots. People who kill in the name of Islam will go to hell, not paridise. People who brainwash kids to become terrorists are so evil that they will suffer more in hell than anyone else.