829 billion dollars

[jreeves]

Hmmm...I guess that's why Canada has a higher bankruptcy rate than the US huh?

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/Commerce.Web/product_files/HealthInsuranceandBankruptcyRates.pdf

• Unlike the United States, Canada has a universal, single-payer, government-run, socialized health
insurance system.
• Advocates of socialized medicine argue that the mixed public-private health insurance system in the
United States causes many Americans to become financially bankrupt, and that this would not
occur if the US adopted the Canadian health system.
• Following this logic, we should expect to observe a lower rate of personal bankruptcy in Canada
than in the United States.
• Yet the most recent data (2006 and 2007) shows that personal
bankruptcy rates are actually higher in Canada (.30% for both
years) than in the United States (.20% and .27%).
• Research indicates that medical spending was only one of
several contributing factors in 17 percent of US bankruptcies,
and that medical debts accounted for only 12 to 13 percent of
the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited
medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.


Medical reasons for bankruptcies
are not unique to the US. Research
commissioned by the Canadian
government (Redish et al., 2006)
indicates that medical reasons were
cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy
for approximately 15 percent
of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55
years of age and older).

Using a blog to support your point of view priceless....LMAO

I've got links. I don't know where you're getting your stuff from.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

Right off the Office of the superintendent of Bankruptcy for Canada's website...

View attachment 8351


Now the American counterparts...
Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact -- Dranove and Millenson 25 (2): w74 -- Health Affairs
Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact
David Dranove and Michael L. Millenson

David Himmelstein and colleagues recently contended that medical problems contribute to 54.5 percent of personal bankruptcies and threaten the solvency of solidly middle-class Americans. They propose comprehensive national health insurance as a solution. A reexamination of their data suggests that medical bills are a contributing factor in just 17 percent of personal bankruptcies and that those affected tend to have incomes closer to poverty level than to middle class. Moreover, for national health insurance to have an impact, it would have to define "medical" expenses in a much broader way than is now typical of either private or government-funded plans.


Also, commonsense would ask if medical costs in the US are driving bankruptcies, then why does Canada have a higher rate of bankruptcies compared to the US?

and rdean disappears...

 

[PatekPhilippe]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg]YouTube - Cricket Sound[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

Why do you want to steal money that isn't yours? Your kind always does.

Out of the highest paid 100 executives in the US, 5 work at Cigna. The CEO makes nearly a quarter billion over five years. The company has two corporate jets valued at more than 68 million. The Board of Directors eat off gold plated plates and silverware. The CEO lives in a 13 million dollar mansion.

Cigna makes nothing. They have no doctors, no nurses, no hospitals. They "Legally" skim money off insurance polices. How many people are denied life saving operations to make a quarter billion dollars?

This is what you are defending? Seriously? How is this good for America? I know you can't answer with anything that makes any sense because it's not possible.

Oh cry me a river commie prick....

rdean says: "WWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! The evil corporations are making too much money...I'm too fucken stupid to get an education and do something for myself...I need Obama to take care of me until I die."

It sucks to be you rdean.

Class envy is an ugly thing.
How much money does Cigna pay out in medical claims? How much risk do they take in doing their business? How much regulation and bureaucracry do they have to go through?
If they earn that money I really don't care if they eat off solid gold. Good for them.

 

[DiamondDave]

Wow, that half of what it cost to level Iraq.

How come Republicans are so convinced it's good to not help other Americans.

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy - BusinessWeek

But medically bankrupt families with private insurance reported average out-of pocket medical bills of $17,749, while the uninsured's bills averaged $26,971. Of the families who started out with insurance but lost it during the course of their illness, medical bills averaged $22,658. "For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."

You can help all you want you leftist prick... it's called motherfucking CHARITY... real generous with other people's money, so typical for a radical leftist

And again.. show in the constitution where you are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of others to have those other bear the burden for your personal responsibilities and well being

Finally, your true colors.

Why do you want to help the people of Iraq? Your kind always does.

Hmmm... War... and all that comes with it is part of national defense.... your sex change operation is not....

Again.. show in the constitution where your personal responsibilities and your want for someone else to pay for them trumps another's personal rights

Idiot

 

[DiamondDave]

Wow, that half of what it cost to level Iraq.

How come Republicans are so convinced it's good to not help other Americans.

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy - BusinessWeek

But medically bankrupt families with private insurance reported average out-of pocket medical bills of $17,749, while the uninsured's bills averaged $26,971. Of the families who started out with insurance but lost it during the course of their illness, medical bills averaged $22,658. "For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."

You can help all you want you leftist prick... it's called motherfucking CHARITY... real generous with other people's money, so typical for a radical leftist

And again.. show in the constitution where you are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of others to have those other bear the burden for your personal responsibilities and well being

So, why is it OK to use our tax money to first destroy and then rebuild Iraq? Why is my tax money being used to build schools in Afghanistan? Please show in the Constitution where those people in Iraq and/or Afghanistan are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of we the people in America and bear the burden of their personal responsibilities and well being?

I have always supported having Iraq reimburse for any rebuilding effort... but war, or congressional approved military action is part of national defense... nice try though

 

[DiamondDave]

Finally, your true colors.

Why do you want to help the people of Iraq? Your kind always does.

Why do you want to steal money that isn't yours? Your kind always does.

Out of the highest paid 100 executives in the US, 5 work at Cigna. The CEO makes nearly a quarter billion over five years. The company has two corporate jets valued at more than 68 million. The Board of Directors eat off gold plated plates and silverware. The CEO lives in a 13 million dollar mansion.

Cigna makes nothing. They have no doctors, no nurses, no hospitals. They "Legally" skim money off insurance polices. How many people are denied life saving operations to make a quarter billion dollars?

This is what you are defending? Seriously? How is this good for America? I know you can't answer with anything that makes any sense because it's not possible.

An actor makes 'nothing'.. an athlete makes 'nothing'.. yet do you complain??

And on top of that... what gives you the rightto limit what one can charge for a service, or limit what one can get compensated in a free market for one's efforts, skills, abilities, etc??

 

[DiamondDave]

Hmmm...I guess that's why Canada has a higher bankruptcy rate than the US huh?

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/Commerce.Web/product_files/HealthInsuranceandBankruptcyRates.pdf

• Unlike the United States, Canada has a universal, single-payer, government-run, socialized health
insurance system.
• Advocates of socialized medicine argue that the mixed public-private health insurance system in the
United States causes many Americans to become financially bankrupt, and that this would not
occur if the US adopted the Canadian health system.
• Following this logic, we should expect to observe a lower rate of personal bankruptcy in Canada
than in the United States.
• Yet the most recent data (2006 and 2007) shows that personal
bankruptcy rates are actually higher in Canada (.30% for both
years) than in the United States (.20% and .27%).
• Research indicates that medical spending was only one of
several contributing factors in 17 percent of US bankruptcies,
and that medical debts accounted for only 12 to 13 percent of
the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited
medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.


Medical reasons for bankruptcies
are not unique to the US. Research
commissioned by the Canadian
government (Redish et al., 2006)
indicates that medical reasons were
cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy
for approximately 15 percent
of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55
years of age and older).

Using a blog to support your point of view priceless....LMAO

I've got links. I don't know where you're getting your stuff from.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

Right off the Office of the superintendent of Bankruptcy for Canada's website...

View attachment 8351


Now the American counterparts...
Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact -- Dranove and Millenson 25 (2): w74 -- Health Affairs
Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact
David Dranove and Michael L. Millenson

David Himmelstein and colleagues recently contended that medical problems contribute to 54.5 percent of personal bankruptcies and threaten the solvency of solidly middle-class Americans. They propose comprehensive national health insurance as a solution. A reexamination of their data suggests that medical bills are a contributing factor in just 17 percent of personal bankruptcies and that those affected tend to have incomes closer to poverty level than to middle class. Moreover, for national health insurance to have an impact, it would have to define "medical" expenses in a much broader way than is now typical of either private or government-funded plans.


Also, commonsense would ask if medical costs in the US are driving bankruptcies, then why does Canada have a higher rate of bankruptcies compared to the US?

Ahhh.. facts?? What are those to a brainwashed, blinded, leftist, Obamabot prick?

 

[VaYank5150]

CBO: Health care bill to cost $829 billion.

Here's the boom-POW!!!!



Notice the CBO doesn't mention anything about the national debt......which is where Congress will borrow money to pay for this program....and guess what....there will be across the board tax hikes for ALL Americans.

Hmmmmmmmm.

Wow, that half of what it cost to level Iraq.

How come Republicans are so convinced it's good to not help other Americans.

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy - BusinessWeek

But medically bankrupt families with private insurance reported average out-of pocket medical bills of $17,749, while the uninsured's bills averaged $26,971. Of the families who started out with insurance but lost it during the course of their illness, medical bills averaged $22,658. "For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."

You can help all you want you leftist prick... it's called motherfucking CHARITY... real generous with other people's money, so typical for a radical leftist

And again.. show in the constitution where you are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of others to have those other bear the burden for your personal responsibilities and well being

So, why is it OK to use our tax money to first destroy and then rebuild Iraq? Why is my tax money being used to build schools in Afghanistan? Please show in the Constitution where those people in Iraq and/or Afghanistan are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of we the people in America and bear the burden of their personal responsibilities and well being?

 

[DiamondDave]

Wow, that half of what it cost to level Iraq.

How come Republicans are so convinced it's good to not help other Americans.

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy - BusinessWeek

But medically bankrupt families with private insurance reported average out-of pocket medical bills of $17,749, while the uninsured's bills averaged $26,971. Of the families who started out with insurance but lost it during the course of their illness, medical bills averaged $22,658. "For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments, and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."

You can help all you want you leftist prick... it's called motherfucking CHARITY... real generous with other people's money, so typical for a radical leftist

And again.. show in the constitution where you are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of others to have those other bear the burden for your personal responsibilities and well being

So, why is it OK to use our tax money to first destroy and then rebuild Iraq? Why is my tax money being used to build schools in Afghanistan? Please show in the Constitution where those people in Iraq and/or Afghanistan are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of we the people in America and bear the burden of their personal responsibilities and well being?

We had a legal military action due to the violation of cease fire agreements... as stated, war is part of national defense and ally defense... and that is in the constitution

I have never said that Iraq or Afghanistan has the right to infringe on the rights of others... but nice try... And as stated, SO many times, we have a history of helping rebuild... but do I think that the expense of rebuilding should only be on US?? No... I do fully support measures of Iraq or any other country that we defeat in conflict paying for or paying us back for reconstruction efforts

BUT that does not justify you getting something for nothing at the expense of a contributor... you have no right to have your personal responsibilities put on the back of government or someone else

 

[VaYank5150]

You can help all you want you leftist prick... it's called motherfucking CHARITY... real generous with other people's money, so typical for a radical leftist

And again.. show in the constitution where you are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of others to have those other bear the burden for your personal responsibilities and well being

So, why is it OK to use our tax money to first destroy and then rebuild Iraq? Why is my tax money being used to build schools in Afghanistan? Please show in the Constitution where those people in Iraq and/or Afghanistan are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of we the people in America and bear the burden of their personal responsibilities and well being?

We had a legal military action due to the violation of cease fire agreements... as stated, war is part of national defense and ally defense... and that is in the constitution

I have never said that Iraq or Afghanistan has the right to infringe on the rights of others... but nice try... And as stated, SO many times, we have a history of helping rebuild... but do I think that the expense of rebuilding should only be on US?? No... I do fully support measures of Iraq or any other country that we defeat in conflict paying for or paying us back for reconstruction efforts

BUT that does not justify you getting something for nothing at the expense of a contributor... you have no right to have your personal responsibilities put on the back of government or someone else

The mere fact that you can be in favor of spending MY tax dollars on foreign civilians before spending them on those of my fellow US citizens, tells me all I need to know about you. AND, until you can tell me specifically what threat Iraq posed to the US (hence the need to defend ourselves, as you claim), you cannot support Nation Building and attempt to hide behind our Constitution while you are doing it.

 

[The Rabbi]

So, why is it OK to use our tax money to first destroy and then rebuild Iraq? Why is my tax money being used to build schools in Afghanistan? Please show in the Constitution where those people in Iraq and/or Afghanistan are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of we the people in America and bear the burden of their personal responsibilities and well being?

We had a legal military action due to the violation of cease fire agreements... as stated, war is part of national defense and ally defense... and that is in the constitution

I have never said that Iraq or Afghanistan has the right to infringe on the rights of others... but nice try... And as stated, SO many times, we have a history of helping rebuild... but do I think that the expense of rebuilding should only be on US?? No... I do fully support measures of Iraq or any other country that we defeat in conflict paying for or paying us back for reconstruction efforts

BUT that does not justify you getting something for nothing at the expense of a contributor... you have no right to have your personal responsibilities put on the back of government or someone else

The mere fact that you can be in favor of spending MY tax dollars on foreign civilians before spending them on those of my fellow US citizens, tells me all I need to know about you. AND, until you can tell me specifically what threat Iraq posed to the US (hence the need to defend ourselves, as you claim), you cannot support Nation Building and attempt to hide behind our Constitution while you are doing it.

Somehow I have the feeling that all this has been explained to you. Many times in fact.
What is it about national defense and the rebuilding of the conquered nation to insure it stays compliant do you NOT understand?
Do you disagree that:
1) Defense is a vital and legitimate function of the gov't
2) Defense takes many forms, including pre-emptive action
3) Winning the peace is just as important as winning the war

And what does any of that have to do with the health care mess? We spend billions of dollars on ag subsidies mostly for wealthy "farmers" who may never have pulled a plow in their lives. Does that make any other program good or bad? Or do we evaluate it on its merits?
The discussion is on the Obamacare "reform." It is anything but reform. It is anything but cost effective. It will do anything but insure people have adequate access to healthcare.
These things seem elementary. I don't know why it should even be debate.

 

[DiamondDave]

So, why is it OK to use our tax money to first destroy and then rebuild Iraq? Why is my tax money being used to build schools in Afghanistan? Please show in the Constitution where those people in Iraq and/or Afghanistan are owed or entitled to infringe on the personal rights of we the people in America and bear the burden of their personal responsibilities and well being?

We had a legal military action due to the violation of cease fire agreements... as stated, war is part of national defense and ally defense... and that is in the constitution

I have never said that Iraq or Afghanistan has the right to infringe on the rights of others... but nice try... And as stated, SO many times, we have a history of helping rebuild... but do I think that the expense of rebuilding should only be on US?? No... I do fully support measures of Iraq or any other country that we defeat in conflict paying for or paying us back for reconstruction efforts

BUT that does not justify you getting something for nothing at the expense of a contributor... you have no right to have your personal responsibilities put on the back of government or someone else

The mere fact that you can be in favor of spending MY tax dollars on foreign civilians before spending them on those of my fellow US citizens, tells me all I need to know about you. AND, until you can tell me specifically what threat Iraq posed to the US (hence the need to defend ourselves, as you claim), you cannot support Nation Building and attempt to hide behind our Constitution while you are doing it.

Do you even understand what terms of cease-fire mean?? Do you understand there are consequences for violating terms of a cease-fire agreement. IRAQ VIOLATED THE TERMS OF CEASE FIRE.. P-E-R-I-O-D... and it was long overdue that the consequences for that came about

And please show me again where I advocated handing money to foreign nationals before Americans??? I advocated that war and national defense is a direct charge of the national government and further explained my stances on the reconstruction

But nice try again..... a fail... but a nice try

 

[Wry Catcher]

Anyone know the cost over the next ten years to provide health care for our service men and women wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Is health care the personal responsibilty of a child?
At $ 10 billion (?) or so a month, how much is one dead terrorist worth?
How many would a pandemic kill?
What sort of a tax increase would you support if it saved your childs life?

 

[The Rabbi]

Anyone know the cost over the next ten years to provide health care for our service men and women wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Is health care the personal responsibilty of a child?
At $ 10 billion (?) or so a month, how much is one dead terrorist worth?
How many would a pandemic kill?
What sort of a tax increase would you support if it saved your childs life?

Yes its for the children.
The answers to your questions are:
1) A hell of a lot less than Obamacare
2) No, nor is it the responsibility of the federal gov't. In any case there is the SCHIP program to cover that
3) One dead terrorist is worth hundreds of millions of dollars in productive life years saved
4) No one knows
5) No tax increase is going to save my child's life. But it will make their lives poorer because it will make it harder for them (and me) to earn a decent living.

 

[DiamondDave]

Anyone know the cost over the next ten years to provide health care for our service men and women wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Is health care the personal responsibilty of a child?
At $ 10 billion (?) or so a month, how much is one dead terrorist worth?
How many would a pandemic kill?
What sort of a tax increase would you support if it saved your childs life?

1) Healthcare and retirement benefits to soldiers, wounded vets, and retired vets are not the same as entitlement handouts to non-contributors at the expense of contributors.... try and understand the fundamental difference
2) A child's healthcare is the responsibility of the parent and/or legal guardian....
3) How much is national defense, protecting the nation, and battling enemies who would kill or harm any US citizen at the drop of a hat, worth??
4) CDC and HHS already exist to research to prevent and cure pandemics
5) I would support no tax increase to benefit non-contributors at the expense of contributors, for that is unconstitutional.. I would support any individual extra effort and earning I would have to do to save my child's life. I would do whatever in my ability to engage voluntary charitable organizations that could willingly help in my child's cause and volunteer whatever I could in return. But my child is my responsibility, not yours.

 

[Immanuel]

CBO: Health care bill to cost $829 billion.

Here's the boom-POW!!!!

The Congressional Budget Office added that the measure would reduce federal deficits by $81 billion over a decade and probably lead to "continued reductions in federal budget deficits" in the years beyond.

Notice the CBO doesn't mention anything about the national debt......which is where Congress will borrow money to pay for this program....and guess what....there will be across the board tax hikes for ALL Americans.

Hmmmmmmmm.

Actually, the debt is mentioned in the CBO report. Because of the new revenue streams in the bill, it actually decreases the deficit by 81 billion over ten years.

I was about to point that out. According to the OP, it states that the deficit will be reduced by $81 billion. Which means that according to the CBO, if our loss would have been $1 Trillion it will only be $919 Billion if the bill were passed.

Which says to me that Congress intends on making money on this deal via increased taxes, making the "public option" insurance plan a for profit business by driving all competition out of the market (bend over and drop your drawers) and penalties waged on those who do not comply.

Is that what we want for Health Care Reform? I thought it was supposed to save us money! Who do you think will be paying that $81 Billion... China?

Immie

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Less than the cost of two wars over ten years

At least we have our priorities straight

Funny, deficits were bad when Obama ran.. now that he's in, deficits are ok as long as they are for the "right" cause.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Where are they going to get all this cash? Doesn't anyone in this country actually think anymore? If they're saying $829 Billion just go ahead and double that number to $2 Trillion. They're never right with their numbers and the actual numbers always seem to be at least double what they originally promise. So how are they going to get all this cash? The answer is that the Socialists will now have to turn on their own people. I said all during the last campaign that Socialists/Communists always turn on their own people in the end and that is going to happen here very soon.

They will now have to start punishing the average American Citizen through punitive excessive taxation. They're already out there pushing their new Soda & Potato Chip taxes. Why should the average American Citizen be punished for something they had nothing to do with? The average American Citizen didn't bankrupt and weaken our Nation. The corrupt & incompetent politicians did that. They never asked the American People for permission to give $Trillions in tax payer cash to the corrupt corporate fat cats. They just went ahead and did it. No one ever consulted me on that. Now the Socialists are flat broke and need more of our cash. So now they will begin their assault by punishing average hard working American Citizens for their own crimes they committed against our country. Socialists/Communists always turn on their own people in the end. It really is true.

 

[Ame®icano]

Health care legislation drafted by a key Senate committee would expand coverage to 94 percent of all eligible Americans at a 10-year cost of $829 billion, congressional budget experts said Wednesday, a preliminary estimate trumpeted by the White House and likely to power the measure past a major hurdle within days.

The Congressional Budget Office added that the legislation would reduce federal deficits by $81 billion over a decade and probably lead to "continued reductions in federal" red ink in the years beyond.

Health bill would cost $829B, cover 94 percent

With only 94% covered, and 6% not covered (20 million) question is, what happen with "all Americans deserve health care"? What kind of reform is that if will not cover all Americans? Only reform I see here is that insurance companies will get more money and Americans will pay higher taxes. Bill doesn't have provision that will prevent increase of the health care cost, so what they are saying now is just a fairy tale. Also, insurance companies are becoming imune to legal action against them. How convenient, eh?

 

[Ame®icano]