40 Economists Agree: The GOP Is In Fiscal La-La Land

[Avatar4321]

The best way to help the poor is to make them suffer more

“I am for doing good to the poor, but…I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed…that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” - Benjamin Franklin

I'm sorry, but I really don't look to 18th century philosphers to be experts on 21st century sociology

Ben Franklin was pre Charles Dickens in his views on poverty

Actually, Franklin and Dickens pretty much agreed that government "help" for poverty was crap and individuals and private institutions should be the ones to lift people out of poverty and help themselves out of it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes, lets bring back public flogging

completely irrelevant. Your insistence to ignore the past and try "new" things that are merely old failures when we have thousands of years of human history to derive solutions to our problems is just insane.

 

[freedombecki]

Oh, you don't understand how the entire fiscal meltdown we had across the globe was tied together then. I see. Yeah, you should really watch that Frontline documentary then.

They didn't just do those derivative debt swaps in Greece or Europe either, numbnuts. They suckered domestic municipalities into doing them too.

Derivatives - The Unregulated Global Casino for Banks
Derivatives: The $600 Trillion Time Bomb That's Set to Explode - Money Morning


Also, I wiped my dick clean of you.

Government bonds aren't derivatives, they're bonds.

Also, I wiped my dick clean of you.

He beat your argument to shreds ten times over so you're going to ignore him?

Sportsmanship not your forte, hm.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

wow... 40 whole economists. Out of 14,600 in the US alone. How many people are currently employed as a Economists in the United States?

Do the math, dumb ass.

.002% of active US economists hold that opinion.

Oh. So you don't get how surveys work either, Hall Monitor Jones? Sucks for you to not get advanced concepts.

Forty Progressive Economists? And they speak for all those other fourteen thousands of economists who are neither conservative nor "progressive (liberal)"?

Oh, yah, right. That should fall in with the believers at the DNC convention. Oh, wait. Nobody is going to the DNC convention because Hillary isn't.
/wah-wah trumpet

Hey Twat. So I know you think what you just posted was this clever gotcha, but it's already been addressed. There are indeed Conservative economists who were in this poll.

But thanks for putting your Twat Stamp of Approval on this thread, Twat.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Government bonds aren't derivatives, they're bonds.

Also, I wiped my dick clean of you.

He beat your argument to shreds ten times over so you're going to ignore him?

Sportsmanship not your forte, hm.

Oh FreedomTwat. No he didn't. Did you read any of the exchange between g5000 and I after? No. Of course you didn't. Or you did and you ignored it, because that's what twats do, you twat.

 

[freedombecki]

If anyone has an honest desire to learn how Wall Street can help a client hide debt and help companies avoid regulations and reporting rules with derivatives, start with this book: Traders, Guns & Money: Knowns and unknowns in the dazzling world of derivatives

It is well worth the time and effort.

Holy cow, g5000, I looked up the author at your link to see how he describes himself, and his homepage came with a severe attack warning on my browser's alert page. I almost don't want to know.

Bye, I have to run my antivirus scan now.

Warning to other posters: do not look up the author of that book! His webpage is tied up in "nots."

 

[buckeye45_73]

If anyone has an honest desire to learn how Wall Street can help a client hide debt and help companies avoid regulations and reporting rules with derivatives, start with this book: Traders, Guns & Money: Knowns and unknowns in the dazzling world of derivatives

It is well worth the time and effort.

Actually this song sums it up real well

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgRfxTG1Rg8]Warren Zevon - Lawyers, Guns and Money - David Sanborn Show, 1989 (HD) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ClosedCaption]

I find that really encouraging, actually, that you and I who are very clearly on polar opposites on just about every issue can agree on this point. I definitely feel that when we look back on this 30 years, we'll see even more clearly just how badly the banks were the ones fucking us over, and of course Wall Street too. Everyone should be LIVID about the derivative shenanigans, and LIBOR is fraud of the worst degree.

Interestingly, I also hold Democrats responsible for bailing the banks and Wall Street out too, but I think it had to be done to save the country from an even bigger disaster. However, no doubt the one who are the guiltiest of gambling with our futures should be held accountable, totally agreed.

And what's really funny is that this makes me want to vote for Obama, not because he has a squeaky-clean record with Wall Street, but because he's obviously going to be much less willing to to let Wall Street skate, and he'd definitely sign Glass-Steagall back into law.

Honestly, I don't think Republicans by and large have the country's best interests in mind when it comes to fiscal policy right now. It ALL bends towards Wall Street, doesn't it?

nope, it doesnt bend towards wall street. Big govenement and big business are friends....I have to say that less regulation and government interferance would be nice. Lets get the government out of the way so that when a business goes down, it's all them. no more putting regulations on say mortgages to loan to people who cant pay and then be shocked they dont pay it back.....GEEEEEE

You show a stunning lack of knowledge on the issue. It's almost as if you only know the things you're told by talking heads...

No...It is that he only knows things told to him by Talking heads.

Oh and G5000 is a smart dude...When he talks about the derivitives bubble seems to be his forte' and he breaks it down perfectly

 

[Dick Tuck]

wow... 40 whole economists. Out of 14,600 in the US alone. How many people are currently employed as a Economists in the United States?

Do the math, dumb ass.

.002% of active US economists hold that opinion.

Oh. So you don't get how surveys work either, Hall Monitor Jones? Sucks for you to not get advanced concepts.

Forty Progressive Economists? And they speak for all those other fourteen thousands of economists who are neither conservative nor "progressive (liberal)"?

Oh, yah, right. That should fall in with the believers at the DNC convention. Oh, wait. Nobody is going to the DNC convention because Hillary isn't.
/wah-wah trumpet

Yeah right. A survey coming from the economists at University of Chicago. We all know how progressive that place is. I'm sure you also followed how they had other polls where the group favored school vouchers and opposed rent control. Of course not. Asking a wingnut to do a bit of investigation before forming a judgement is like asking a fish to give up water for a few hours.

 

[freedombecki]

Oh. So you don't get how surveys work either, Hall Monitor Jones? Sucks for you to not get advanced concepts.

Forty Progressive Economists? And they speak for all those other fourteen thousands of economists who are neither conservative nor "progressive (liberal)"?

Oh, yah, right. That should fall in with the believers at the DNC convention. Oh, wait. Nobody is going to the DNC convention because Hillary isn't.
/wah-wah trumpet

Yeah right. A survey coming from the economists at University of Chicago. We all know how progressive that place is. I'm sure you also followed how they had other polls where the group favored school vouchers and opposed rent control. Of course not. Asking a wingnut to do a bit of investigation before forming a judgement is like asking a fish to give up water for a few hours.

University of Chicago is progressive? that's a new one on me!

Experts in any given field agree that they disagree. There's no excuse for resorting to name-calling with someone a person knows will not return fire for any reason including negative reps. The gist of the mods' action here this past week was to get people defending arguments and not calling other posters bad names at times when a maelstrom of computer viruses are going around, attacking the computers of innocent bystanders who merely wish to validate data being supplied by them.

 

[g5000]

If anyone has an honest desire to learn how Wall Street can help a client hide debt and help companies avoid regulations and reporting rules with derivatives, start with this book: Traders, Guns & Money: Knowns and unknowns in the dazzling world of derivatives

It is well worth the time and effort.

Holy cow, g5000, I looked up the author at your link to see how he describes himself, and his homepage came with a severe attack warning on my browser's alert page. I almost don't want to know.

Bye, I have to run my antivirus scan now.

Warning to other posters: do not look up the author of that book! His webpage is tied up in "nots."

That is unfortunate. Here is Amazon's page about him: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Satyajit-Das/e/B0045AX9M2/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0]Amazon.com: Satyajit Das: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle[/ame]

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Forty Progressive Economists? And they speak for all those other fourteen thousands of economists who are neither conservative nor "progressive (liberal)"?

Oh, yah, right. That should fall in with the believers at the DNC convention. Oh, wait. Nobody is going to the DNC convention because Hillary isn't.
/wah-wah trumpet

Yeah right. A survey coming from the economists at University of Chicago. We all know how progressive that place is. I'm sure you also followed how they had other polls where the group favored school vouchers and opposed rent control. Of course not. Asking a wingnut to do a bit of investigation before forming a judgement is like asking a fish to give up water for a few hours.

University of Chicago is progressive? that's a new one on me!

Experts in any given field agree that they disagree. There's no excuse for resorting to name-calling with someone a person knows will not return fire for any reason including negative reps. The gist of the mods' action here this past week was to get people defending arguments and not calling other posters bad names at times when a maelstrom of computer viruses are going around, attacking the computers of innocent bystanders who merely wish to validate data being supplied by them.

Yep. You're right. You sure do talk a lot.

 

[g5000]

nope, it doesnt bend towards wall street. Big govenement and big business are friends....I have to say that less regulation and government interferance would be nice. Lets get the government out of the way so that when a business goes down, it's all them. no more putting regulations on say mortgages to loan to people who cant pay and then be shocked they dont pay it back.....GEEEEEE

Derivatives in the US were 100 percent deregulated by the CFMA and FSMA. Wall Street (and the City of London, etc.) had a great opportunity to show they could police themselves. Guess what? They failed miserably.

Congress put on big dog and pony shows after the crash to make it look like they were doing something. But you know what? Not one of the big fraudsters went to prison. Want a list?

In fact, one of them was rewarded with an ambassadorship to the Netherlands!

Hired an illegal alien nanny ten years ago? You can't get your nomination confirmed. Robbed people blind and paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines? You don't go to prison. Oh hell no. You get nominated and confirmed to be a US Ambassador.

You can't make this shit up!

This was a team effort. Government and Wall Street working hand in hand.

And this was a global derivatives bubble, not just in the US. Banks failed all over the Western hemisphere, not just here in the US. So to suggest this was related to the CRA, as you seem to imply, is patently ridiculous.

Additionally, these financial products were not constructed solely of home loans. The underlying assets were auto loans, credit card balance, corporate bonds, municipal bonds, and sovereign bonds.

Greece, Italy, Spain, et al? They are exactly the same template used for that subprime loan given to your next door neighbor. The exact same derivatives were built from them.

There are thousands of variations in the financial products world, and they were all put to use to rip the faces off your 401k retirement fund manager, your insurance company, your city treasury, your public employee pension fund, and your local colleges and universities. The money is just FLYING out of your pockets into theirs.

Those foreclosures on your street are but a tiny, tiny fraction of the Big Picture.

These guys now make up 20 percent of our GDP. HUGE growth in the financial sector. And now they are powerful enough to feel untouchable.

 

[freedombecki]

If anyone has an honest desire to learn how Wall Street can help a client hide debt and help companies avoid regulations and reporting rules with derivatives, start with this book: Traders, Guns & Money: Knowns and unknowns in the dazzling world of derivatives

It is well worth the time and effort.

Holy cow, g5000, I looked up the author at your link to see how he describes himself, and his homepage came with a severe attack warning on my browser's alert page. I almost don't want to know.

Bye, I have to run my antivirus scan now.

Warning to other posters: do not look up the author of that book! His webpage is tied up in "nots."

That is unfortunate. Here is Amazon's page about him: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Satyajit-Das/e/B0045AX9M2/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0"]Amazon.com: Satyajit Das: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle[/ame]

Thank you, g5000. I might try your link. When I went to his page, my browser would not open it and said my computer was under attack. When I got back here, I had a neg rep in my box that I am afraid to open. The last time that happened, one of my pieces of equipment was permanently disabled. I'm retired, and I can't just run out and replace stuff any more. I had to wait a couple of weeks to replace it. I will be running my antivirus nonstop around here until I don't get any more computer threats.

Thanks again for your link.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

nope, it doesnt bend towards wall street. Big govenement and big business are friends....I have to say that less regulation and government interferance would be nice. Lets get the government out of the way so that when a business goes down, it's all them. no more putting regulations on say mortgages to loan to people who cant pay and then be shocked they dont pay it back.....GEEEEEE

Derivatives in the US were 100 percent deregulated by the CFMA and FSMA. Wall Street (and the City of London, etc.) had a great opportunity to show they could police themselves. Guess what? They failed miserably.

Congress put on big dog and pony shows after the crash to make it look like they were doing something. But you know what? Not one of the big fraudsters went to prison. Want a list?

In fact, one of them was rewarded with an ambassadorship to the Netherlands!

Hired an illegal alien nanny ten years ago? You can't get your nomination confirmed. Robbed people blind and paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines? You don't go to prison. Oh hell no. You get nominated and confirmed to be a US Ambassador.

You can't make this shit up!

This was a team effort. Government and Wall Street working hand in hand.

And this was a global derivatives bubble, not just in the US. Banks failed all over the Western hemisphere, not just here in the US. So to suggest this was related to the CRA, as you seem to imply, is patently ridiculous.

Additionally, these financial products were not constructed solely of home loans. The underlying assets were auto loans, credit card balance, corporate bonds, municipal bonds, and sovereign bonds.

Greece, Italy, Spain, et al? They are exactly the same template used for that subprime loan given to your next door neighbor. The exact same derivatives were built from them.

There are thousands of variations in the financial products world, and they were all put to use to rip the faces off your 401k retirement fund manager, your insurance company, your city treasury, your public employee pension fund, and your local colleges and universities. The money is just FLYING out of your pockets into theirs.

Those foreclosures on your street are but a tiny, tiny fraction of the Big Picture.

These guys now make up 20 percent of our GDP. HUGE growth in the financial sector. And now they are powerful enough to feel untouchable.

Buddy, we may not see eye to eye on everything, but you just completely obliterated about four people's arguments in this thread. Well done, and I couldn't agree more. Un-regulated Derivative gambling (as I call it), is what I think is the biggest crime in ALL of this, and I agree that no one should have been rewarded for their callous abuse of people's nest eggs.

 

[g5000]

Holy cow, g5000, I looked up the author at your link to see how he describes himself, and his homepage came with a severe attack warning on my browser's alert page. I almost don't want to know.

Bye, I have to run my antivirus scan now.

Warning to other posters: do not look up the author of that book! His webpage is tied up in "nots."

That is unfortunate. Here is Amazon's page about him: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Satyajit-Das/e/B0045AX9M2/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0"]Amazon.com: Satyajit Das: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle[/ame]

Thank you, g5000. I might try your link. When I went to his page, my browser would not open it and said my computer was under attack. When I got back here, I had a neg rep in my box that I am afraid to open. The last time that happened, one of my pieces of equipment was permanently disabled. I'm retired, and I can't just run out and replace stuff any more. I had to wait a couple of weeks to replace it. I will be running my antivirus nonstop around here until I don't get any more computer threats.

Thanks again for your link.

Hmmm. I really like Satyajit Das. I hope he has not been hacked. That would really suck.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Forty Progressive Economists? And they speak for all those other fourteen thousands of economists who are neither conservative nor "progressive (liberal)"?

Oh, yah, right. That should fall in with the believers at the DNC convention. Oh, wait. Nobody is going to the DNC convention because Hillary isn't.
/wah-wah trumpet

Yeah right. A survey coming from the economists at University of Chicago. We all know how progressive that place is. I'm sure you also followed how they had other polls where the group favored school vouchers and opposed rent control. Of course not. Asking a wingnut to do a bit of investigation before forming a judgement is like asking a fish to give up water for a few hours.

University of Chicago is progressive? that's a new one on me!

Experts in any given field agree that they disagree. There's no excuse for resorting to name-calling with someone a person knows will not return fire for any reason including negative reps. The gist of the mods' action here this past week was to get people defending arguments and not calling other posters bad names at times when a maelstrom of computer viruses are going around, attacking the computers of innocent bystanders who merely wish to validate data being supplied by them.

I was being sarcastic to your claim that the UofChicago survey was progressive. As for the name calling, what do you expect? You opined with no clue on who was surveyed, and who conducted it, in spite of there being several links in this thread which would have provided you with that information.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, lets bring back public flogging

completely irrelevant. Your insistence to ignore the past and try "new" things that are merely old failures when we have thousands of years of human history to derive solutions to our problems is just insane.

Coming from someone who advocates an 18th century social structure?

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Yes, lets bring back public flogging

completely irrelevant. Your insistence to ignore the past and try "new" things that are merely old failures when we have thousands of years of human history to derive solutions to our problems is just insane.

Coming from someone who advocates an 18th century social structure?

Well, who can blame him? After all, it was WAY before the Civil War when all those pesky blacks got all free and shit.

 

[whitehall]

Where were the 40 economists when democrats gained the majority during the 2nd half of Bush's 2nd term and democrats had the majority in both Houses of Congress for four years and the last two years with a radical left president?? Where were the 40 economists when the chairperson of the House Banking committee which had oversight responsibility for Fannie Mae told Americans that "fannie was fine" when it was on the verge of collapse, marching in the gay rights parade? Fannie Mae took the economy down during a democrat majority in both houses of congress. Will lefties ever quit whining about being able to control only 2/3 of the federal government?