2/3 say ditch individual health care mandate

[Jarhead]

Why does everyone making 45k a year have 2 cars and three tvs? Is your entire argument based upon that? Pretty shaky if you ask me.

What exactly did I spin? You're being ridiculous now, pigeon-holing everyone who is lower middle class as buying luxury goods at the expense of basic needs. Does it happen? Sure it does. But is it everyone doing that or even a majority? I think we both know that's not the case.

I wish you wouldn't make your entire viewpoint based upon the worse examples you can find and then generalize about the rest of the population, simply because it helps state your case in a nice clean package. Unfortunately the picturing you're painting isn't whats happening in the real world.

whatever.

Dont bother respoinding to me anymore.

You proved to me what you are all about a few weeks back.

I was disappointed....saddened to be honest.

Put me on ignoire if you wish. I am OK with it.

Cya.

What? Seriously? What's your problem? Retirement has turned you in to an asshole. I'm trying to have a conversation with you and you don't even respond with an intelligent response anymore.

If that's how you want it though, have it your way. I'll be here when you de-grouch yourself.

your last three interactions with me including a few weeks back AND yesterday...and today....have been the type I would expect form some of the dicks on here....ridicule; twisting what I say....you kjnow...the shit I refuse to engage in.

Actually, noit at all a grouch. Enjoying life to the fullest....lol....placed 4 people on jobs last week..>AND DID NOT CHARGE A FEE....becuase I have the resources, and people need jobs.

It is fun to work for free....no stress...no pressure.

Life is good.

Just dont appreciate your approach.

Go for it though if you enjoy it....I dont so I just wont deal with it.

 

[Syphon]

Your strawman production is remarkable. Do you consider that hard work?

if youre not making a high wage and taking him good pay, then i call it a fools errand.

i can be more productive in 40 hours than you can in 54.... does that mean i work harder? nope it means i work smarter....

Since you know little of my situation, that would be a pure fabrication on your part.

For instance, what do you produce?

(besides strawman agruments I mean)

i produce control buildings for the utility industry that provide and distribute electricity to the world.

what do you produce? law cuttings.....

 

[Jarhead]

funny thing is fox news did exactly that. they called out the poor because 99.6% have "refigerators"

99.6% have refrigerators
97.7% have televisions
97.7% have stoves and ovens
81.4% have microwaves
78.3% have air conditioning

99.6 % of the Poor in America Have REFRIGERATORS!?!!??!! | The Culture Zone

in the words of Bill O’Reilly, “So how can you be so poor and have all this stuff?”

I did without a TV
I did without air conditioning
I did without a microwave.

And I never considered myself poor.

I considered myself on the rise.

And it worked.

as much as you dont want to admit it, you were poor at that time. no one ever wants to admit they are poor, but that doesnt change the fact that at that point in time you actually were. you also admitted to being homeless 31 years ago, does that mean you werent poor then either?

I did not say I was not poor. I said I did not consider myself poor. WHen you condiser yourself poor, it can stunt your growth. When others refer to you as poor, it can have an adverse affect on your growth.

The point Oreilly made was that those that CONSIDER THEMSLEVES poor....or that many call the poor........had more than I did.

 

[RDD_1210]

whatever.

Dont bother respoinding to me anymore.

You proved to me what you are all about a few weeks back.

I was disappointed....saddened to be honest.

Put me on ignoire if you wish. I am OK with it.

Cya.

What? Seriously? What's your problem? Retirement has turned you in to an asshole. I'm trying to have a conversation with you and you don't even respond with an intelligent response anymore.

If that's how you want it though, have it your way. I'll be here when you de-grouch yourself.

your last three interactions with me including a few weeks back AND yesterday...and today....have been the type I would expect form some of the dicks on here....ridicule; twisting what I say....you kjnow...the shit I refuse to engage in.

Actually, noit at all a grouch. Enjoying life to the fullest....lol....placed 4 people on jobs last week..>AND DID NOT CHARGE A FEE....becuase I have the resources, and people need jobs.

It is fun to work for free....no stress...no pressure.

Life is good.

Just dont appreciate your approach.

Go for it though if you enjoy it....I dont so I just wont deal with it.

What did I twist? I asked if you considered the fact that everyone making 45k who has a family might not have reached that point in the manner which you are depicting. If that's what you consider spin then you're not open to having an actual conversation.

And I apologized yesterday for misinterpreting the conversation. I said I was wrong about that. Maybe you're not a grouch but you're oversensitive lately at the very least.

 

[Syphon]

I did without a TV
I did without air conditioning
I did without a microwave.

And I never considered myself poor.

I considered myself on the rise.

And it worked.

as much as you dont want to admit it, you were poor at that time. no one ever wants to admit they are poor, but that doesnt change the fact that at that point in time you actually were. you also admitted to being homeless 31 years ago, does that mean you werent poor then either?

I did not say I was not poor. I said I did not consider myself poor. WHen you condiser yourself poor, it can stunt your growth. When others refer to you as poor, it can have an adverse affect on your growth.

The point Oreilly made was that those that CONSIDER THEMSLEVES poor....or that many call the poor........had more than I did.

just because you wont admit to yourself that you werent poor, doesnt change that fact. what are you gonna claim next? that living in a tent doesnt mean your homeless because the tent is in fact your home???

 

[saveliberty]

if youre not making a high wage and taking him good pay, then i call it a fools errand.

i can be more productive in 40 hours than you can in 54.... does that mean i work harder? nope it means i work smarter....

Since you know little of my situation, that would be a pure fabrication on your part.

For instance, what do you produce?

(besides strawman agruments I mean)

i produce control buildings for the utility industry that provide and distribute electricity to the world.

what do you produce? law cuttings.....

During the 54 hours, I sell new and used vehicles. In my landscape business I create landscapes, some of which have been decribed as art by clients.

Your union then. Working hard? Seriously?

 

[Syphon]

Since you know little of my situation, that would be a pure fabrication on your part.

For instance, what do you produce?

(besides strawman agruments I mean)

i produce control buildings for the utility industry that provide and distribute electricity to the world.

what do you produce? law cuttings.....

During the 54 hours, I sell new and used vehicles. In my landscape business I create landscapes, some of which have been decribed as art by clients.

Your union then. Working hard? Seriously?

nope non union, profitable for 17 years, high reputation, high wage..

so just because i have a high paying, good job in the manufacturing industry im automatically union?
man the right is full of idiots...

wow, selling cars must take a highly specialized degree.... i mean working 54 hours a week selling cars is mind numbing work........ doesnt exactly take a degree in electrical engineering to figure that out.

 

[Jarhead]

as much as you dont want to admit it, you were poor at that time. no one ever wants to admit they are poor, but that doesnt change the fact that at that point in time you actually were. you also admitted to being homeless 31 years ago, does that mean you werent poor then either?

I did not say I was not poor. I said I did not consider myself poor. WHen you condiser yourself poor, it can stunt your growth. When others refer to you as poor, it can have an adverse affect on your growth.

The point Oreilly made was that those that CONSIDER THEMSLEVES poor....or that many call the poor........had more than I did.

just because you wont admit to yourself that you werent poor, doesnt change that fact. what are you gonna claim next? that living in a tent doesnt mean your homeless because the tent is in fact your home???

why must you spin? Where did I say being homeless is not being homeless.

The point Oreilly was making is valid.

Those that are poor, dont live like they are poor. If they gave up some non essentials early on such as TV's and microwaves, they may be poor, but they would have more to avoid being destitute.

Like I did.

Me and my wife were making enough to NOT be poor....but we opted to live poor so we can have mnore down the road.

Like my older son.

He wanted to have a nice apaprtment, a car, and entertainment money....on a salary of 42K.

He asked me to cover his cable annd electric bill....I told him to get rid of his car....that would cover it.

He did.....6 months later, he got a raise and bought a smaller, older car. A year later he got another raise and is now saving good money. He can be unemployed for 6 months and not have to worry....not even taking into consideration unemployment he would be getting.

 

[saveliberty]

i produce control buildings for the utility industry that provide and distribute electricity to the world.

what do you produce? law cuttings.....

During the 54 hours, I sell new and used vehicles. In my landscape business I create landscapes, some of which have been decribed as art by clients.

Your union then. Working hard? Seriously?

nope non union, profitable for 17 years, high reputation, high wage..

so just because i have a high paying, good job in the manufacturing industry im automatically union?
man the right is full of idiots...

wow, selling cars must take a highly specialized degree.... i mean working 54 hours a week selling cars is mind numbing work........ doesnt exactly take a degree in electrical engineering to figure that out.

No, I simply created a strawman for you, like you do all the time. See how that works? The funny part is you fell for it and then had the hypocracy to berate it AND turn around with another strawman.

I have held a series 7 brokerage license, builder's license, teaching certificate. Bachelors of Science from a major university. I am quite certain you could not successfully complete a sales transaction with your knowledge. I have done considerable work with electrical wiring.

Your full of insults and strawmen. Clearly the signs of a weak mind.

 

[Syphon]

During the 54 hours, I sell new and used vehicles. In my landscape business I create landscapes, some of which have been decribed as art by clients.

Your union then. Working hard? Seriously?

nope non union, profitable for 17 years, high reputation, high wage..

so just because i have a high paying, good job in the manufacturing industry im automatically union?
man the right is full of idiots...

wow, selling cars must take a highly specialized degree.... i mean working 54 hours a week selling cars is mind numbing work........ doesnt exactly take a degree in electrical engineering to figure that out.

No, I simply created a strawman for you, like you do all the time. See how that works? The funny part is you fell for it and then had the hypocracy to berate it AND turn around with another strawman.

I have held a series 7 brokerage license, builder's license, teaching certificate. Bachelors of Science from a major university. I am quite certain you could not successfully complete a sales transaction with your knowledge. I have done considerable work with electrical wiring.

Your full of insults and strawmen. Clearly the signs of a weak mind.

actually my sales transaction vary from $100k to several million dollars. so thanks for that fail....

if you were really a successful salesperson, why arent you still selling financial products? or being a teaching? but nope... youre selling cars....... whats the most expensive car youve sold? $50k.. maybe......

and you consider yourself a success??? thats a strawman argument if ive ever heard one.

 

[Syphon]

I did not say I was not poor. I said I did not consider myself poor. WHen you condiser yourself poor, it can stunt your growth. When others refer to you as poor, it can have an adverse affect on your growth.

The point Oreilly made was that those that CONSIDER THEMSLEVES poor....or that many call the poor........had more than I did.

just because you wont admit to yourself that you werent poor, doesnt change that fact. what are you gonna claim next? that living in a tent doesnt mean your homeless because the tent is in fact your home???

why must you spin? Where did I say being homeless is not being homeless.

The point Oreilly was making is valid.

Those that are poor, dont live like they are poor. If they gave up some non essentials early on such as TV's and microwaves, they may be poor, but they would have more to avoid being destitute.

Like I did.

Me and my wife were making enough to NOT be poor....but we opted to live poor so we can have mnore down the road.

Like my older son.

He wanted to have a nice apaprtment, a car, and entertainment money....on a salary of 42K.

He asked me to cover his cable annd electric bill....I told him to get rid of his car....that would cover it.

He did.....6 months later, he got a raise and bought a smaller, older car. A year later he got another raise and is now saving good money. He can be unemployed for 6 months and not have to worry....not even taking into consideration unemployment he would be getting.

your son isint exactly considered "poor"

$42k for a single male, is not $45k for a family of 4.. he is very much middle class.

you consider a $25 microwave a luxury item?
you consider a $50 tv a luxury item?
you consider a refrigerator a luxury items?
you consider a stove and oven a luxury item?

a luxury item would be a big screen, a luxury item would be cell phone, a luxury item would be name brand clothing, a luxury item would be eating out all the time.

 

[Jarhead]

just because you wont admit to yourself that you werent poor, doesnt change that fact. what are you gonna claim next? that living in a tent doesnt mean your homeless because the tent is in fact your home???

why must you spin? Where did I say being homeless is not being homeless.

The point Oreilly was making is valid.

Those that are poor, dont live like they are poor. If they gave up some non essentials early on such as TV's and microwaves, they may be poor, but they would have more to avoid being destitute.

Like I did.

Me and my wife were making enough to NOT be poor....but we opted to live poor so we can have mnore down the road.

Like my older son.

He wanted to have a nice apaprtment, a car, and entertainment money....on a salary of 42K.

He asked me to cover his cable annd electric bill....I told him to get rid of his car....that would cover it.

He did.....6 months later, he got a raise and bought a smaller, older car. A year later he got another raise and is now saving good money. He can be unemployed for 6 months and not have to worry....not even taking into consideration unemployment he would be getting.

your son isint exactly considered "poor"

$42k for a single male, is not $45k for a family of 4.. he is very much middle class.

you consider a $25 microwave a luxury item?
you consider a $50 tv a luxury item?
you consider a refrigerator a luxury items?
you consider a stove and oven a luxury item?

a luxury item would be a big screen, a luxury item would be cell phone, a luxury item would be name brand clothing, a luxury item would be eating out all the time.

I used my son as an example of someone who felt someone else should bear the burden of his expenses...me.

So I pointed out to him that he did not need my help....he could just live a little tighter.

To this day, he thanks me for that. It openend his eyes to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I said NON ESSENTIAL....not luxury.

And I go back to what I said a while ago...

if a man, or a couple, is making 45K then they should not have children yet....they should not own yet....they shopuld live poor by design so they can acheieve what they want in the future.....

But without kids, 2 people can live fine with 45K....or live poor and be able to buy a house 3 years later...that will be their choice.

I lived in a basement of someone.....for 300 a month...so I can save.....you reallyt think I loved living in a basement?

But it allowed me to acheive what I have acheived.

Let me put it to you this way euinstein....

Go talk to your parents...your grandparents.....ask them how they did it without free healthcare, HARP loans, and all of the other things people like you claim is ESSENTIAL for people to survive.

Their answer?

We did without things like mutiple TV's and microwaves, and cell phones, and video games....Sure...we didnt have them invented yet....but we would have done without them if we needed to.....we spent on essentials only...so we could save and acheive the American Dream.

Why?

Healthcare, a roof, clothing and food comes first.....ALWAYS.

Now...healthcare is a burden many dont want to have to worry about.

Thats it for me.

You debate like a child....it is not my style.....I have no interest in debating with you anymore.

 

[Syphon]

so if your children are a reflection of yourself, do we attribute bad parenting to the fact that he wanted someone else to pay for his needs? or are you simply writing that one off on "society"?

guess stove and oven to make food is now non essential, or that microwave to make food is non essential, or that refrigerator to store food is non essential. you just destroyed your own argument.

so how much does a family need to make in order to have a "responsible" family in your eyes? $100k? $200k?

so you lived in someone's basement. does everyone have that option? so quit trying to say just because you did it, everyone should do it. youre extremely judgement for someone who is 54. youre also very intolerant seeing as the fact that you tell people how to live their lives instead of giving them the choice and how to do that themselves.

so now health care is "free"..... when did this magical system come to fruition? i never claimed health care should be free, i never mentioned HARP loans, so now whos creating the strawman argument?

cell phones and video games didnt exist when you were a kid, so nice failed argument again.

"Now...healthcare is a burden many dont want to have to worry about."

great argument for universal health care and you didnt even see it.

 

[koshergrl]

"so if your children are a reflection of yourself"...

It's always best to start out with a logical fallacy, which in this case is also a point that hasn't been made, nor agreed upon, by any of the parties involved.

It's sort of like "In a world where ducks are congressmen and stars come down from the sky to eat dinner with us....blah blah blah."

Well ducks aren't congressmen, and stars don't visit us, so the rest is just incoherent blather. Well, it's all incoherent blather, but you get the point.

 

[Syphon]

"so if your children are a reflection of yourself"...

It's always best to start out with a logical fallacy, which in this case is also a point that hasn't been made, nor agreed upon, by any of the parties involved.

It's sort of like "In a world where ducks are congressmen and stars come down from the sky to eat dinner with us....blah blah blah."

Well ducks aren't congressmen, and stars don't visit us, so the rest is just incoherent blather. Well, it's all incoherent blather, but you get the point.

so you dont believe that they way your children turn out is not a reflection of how you raised them?

good to know....

 

[saveliberty]

nope non union, profitable for 17 years, high reputation, high wage..

so just because i have a high paying, good job in the manufacturing industry im automatically union?
man the right is full of idiots...

wow, selling cars must take a highly specialized degree.... i mean working 54 hours a week selling cars is mind numbing work........ doesnt exactly take a degree in electrical engineering to figure that out.

No, I simply created a strawman for you, like you do all the time. See how that works? The funny part is you fell for it and then had the hypocracy to berate it AND turn around with another strawman.

I have held a series 7 brokerage license, builder's license, teaching certificate. Bachelors of Science from a major university. I am quite certain you could not successfully complete a sales transaction with your knowledge. I have done considerable work with electrical wiring.

Your full of insults and strawmen. Clearly the signs of a weak mind.

actually my sales transaction vary from $100k to several million dollars. so thanks for that fail....

if you were really a successful salesperson, why arent you still selling financial products? or being a teaching? but nope... youre selling cars....... whats the most expensive car youve sold? $50k.. maybe......

and you consider yourself a success??? thats a strawman argument if ive ever heard one.

First your an electrical engineer, now you sell electrical equipment.

 

[saveliberty]

"so if your children are a reflection of yourself"...

It's always best to start out with a logical fallacy, which in this case is also a point that hasn't been made, nor agreed upon, by any of the parties involved.

It's sort of like "In a world where ducks are congressmen and stars come down from the sky to eat dinner with us....blah blah blah."

Well ducks aren't congressmen, and stars don't visit us, so the rest is just incoherent blather. Well, it's all incoherent blather, but you get the point.

so you dont believe that they way your children turn out is not a reflection of how you raised them?

good to know....

Are you really that stupid or just a troll?

 

[Syphon]

No, I simply created a strawman for you, like you do all the time. See how that works? The funny part is you fell for it and then had the hypocracy to berate it AND turn around with another strawman.

I have held a series 7 brokerage license, builder's license, teaching certificate. Bachelors of Science from a major university. I am quite certain you could not successfully complete a sales transaction with your knowledge. I have done considerable work with electrical wiring.

Your full of insults and strawmen. Clearly the signs of a weak mind.

actually my sales transaction vary from $100k to several million dollars. so thanks for that fail....

if you were really a successful salesperson, why arent you still selling financial products? or being a teaching? but nope... youre selling cars....... whats the most expensive car youve sold? $50k.. maybe......

and you consider yourself a success??? thats a strawman argument if ive ever heard one.

First your an electrical engineer, now you sell electrical equipment.

seeing that the control buildings need to be sold to a customer, and i deal with both the design, construction and sales of those buildings.... yes i help sell electrical equipment with an engineering degree

thanks for showing you know nothing about how the business world works.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The thread states, "2/3 say ditch individual health care mandate". Pissing contests aside, what would replace the individual mandate?

 

[Syphon]

"so if your children are a reflection of yourself"...

It's always best to start out with a logical fallacy, which in this case is also a point that hasn't been made, nor agreed upon, by any of the parties involved.

It's sort of like "In a world where ducks are congressmen and stars come down from the sky to eat dinner with us....blah blah blah."

Well ducks aren't congressmen, and stars don't visit us, so the rest is just incoherent blather. Well, it's all incoherent blather, but you get the point.

so you dont believe that they way your children turn out is not a reflection of how you raised them?

good to know....

Are you really that stupid or just a troll?

really did that last post escape your feeble little mind?

yes children are a reflection of how their parents raise them. small minds like yourself obviously can not comprehend this.