10 Reasons to legalise all drugs

[Larkinn]

Heroin's okay, it's crap like Ice that's really scary. The producers of Ice need twenty-five years prison minimum for a first offence.

Ice is really fucked up as well. Everything I've heard about Heroin has been really bad, but I haven't researched it that much because I've never really had an interest in doing it. The drugs I know a lot about are the more fun, more recreational ones.

 

[Larkinn]

I dont think its exactly an all or nothing on that particular point. It has been one dept that has been caught actually doing it and one dept who would find it beneficial in certain circumstances, that is of course the CIA. We dont have a cohesive govt that are all working towards the same goal or aware of each others actions.

True that is is not all or nothing, but I don't see a reason why they would be trying to support illegal drugs. I can see why they might do things that would support illegal drugs to further other causes, but that as an end seems very strange to me.

That being said, I haven't researched this that much. Which is largely why I stayed out of the convo about it, I just don't know that much about it.

But thank you for taking the time to explain it all.

 

[Ruby]

True that is is not all or nothing, but I don't see a reason why they would be trying to support illegal drugs. I can see why they might do things that would support illegal drugs to further other causes, but that as an end seems very strange to me.

That being said, I haven't researched this that much. Which is largely why I stayed out of the convo about it, I just don't know that much about it.

But thank you for taking the time to explain it all.

Well your instincts are correct, its appears that the reasons are about accomplishing OTHER things. Drug trafficing is simply part of the package in many instances (such as with noriega and contra examples).

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Exactly what claim are you referring too? The main claim made by Ruby was that "I submit the US govt hasnt a CLUE on how to handle the drug problems and at worst, HELPS the drug trade.", which I fully agree with.

And of course the continued posts in this thread where she keeps on making the clam that the Government was most definately involved?

I bet you do not agree with the reports that Gore was meeting with Chinese operatives to get bribe money do you? Yet it to is a "Government" report.

 

[Angel Heart]

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[Angel Heart]

Now on the serious side:

Marijuana for ADD:

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[Angel Heart]

Bit more history on hemp (this time from outside America):
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[maineman]

I bet you do not agree with the reports that Gore was meeting with Chinese operatives to get bribe money do you? Yet it to is a "Government" report.

link?

 

[Angel Heart]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292799,00.html

California Petitioner Says State Budget Problems Could Be Fixed by Pot
Thursday , August 09, 2007

By Greg Simmons

California's budget impasse has passed the one-month mark, social services aren't getting state-funded help they need to stay open, and other legislative priorities are being put off the table until the legislature can come to agreement.

One California resident thinks he has the answer: Legalize the growth and sales of marijuana.

Clifford Schaffer, who runs a marijuana advocacy Web site in his spare time from his day job as a computer programmer, says that California could easily clear up the $700 million budget gap still facing state lawmakers, and as a plus, the measure could even help improve national security. He has started a petition, and the number of those supporting his idea is growing rapidly.

"We would honestly hope that they take our suggestion. Failing that, you know, what are the options?" Schaffer said in a telephone interview from his Agua Dulce, Calif., home. Otherwise, he said, "They're going to send another few billion to the drug lords in Mexico who are challenging the Mexican government."

Citing a study that estimates gross U.S. spending on marijuana at roughly $10 billion a year, he said California could corner the market on taxes gleaned from a legalized marijuana trade, generating $1 billion in revenues. That money would stay within the state instead of going to foreign drug cartels.

The governor's office on Thursday dismissed the notion.

"We're not responding to publicity stunts, which is what I think that is," said Aaron McLear, press secretary to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

McLear said the governor has signaled his satisfaction with the last proposal that made it out of the state Assembly, but blamed a bloc of state Senate Republicans for killing the proposal. The $145 billion measure would have narrowed the budget gap from an expected $1.4 billion down to roughly $700 million, and Schwarzenegger said he would use the line-item veto to reduce the rest of the red ink.

As a result of the budget impasse, the Assembly leaders have said they will not handle any other legislation until the budget is passed. McLear said that is affecting administration priorities, which include health care and political reforms, as well as water storage revisions.

"These are things that the governor had hoped to tackle this year, but are frankly on hold until the budget gets done," McLear said. "One hundred percent of the focus of the administration is getting this budget passed."

Schaffer said he was prompted to start his petition campaign this week by two things: first, a photo last week in The Los Angeles Times showing a despondent Schwarzenegger, and secondly, a bit of local politics before the L.A. City Council.

The L.A. City Council recently set into motion a policy that will make room for the sales of medical marijuana through local "cannabis clubs," or medical marijuana dispensaries. But during the meeting that the council approved the measure, one of the leading cannabis club operators — who was at the meeting being congratulated for his upstanding business — had his own club raided by the Drug Enforcement Agency, Schaffer said.

Schaffer admits that he hopes to get more attention to his proposal, but said he thinks it is a serious solution, too. He cited other studies on his Web site that show — despite marijuana's tendency to reduce individual productivity — overall economic activity would not be affected negatively.

Schaffer also said that fears over the need for increased police presence also are unfounded, saying that violence that surrounds marijuana results from the underground economy created from the prohibition on marijuana, not the affects of marijuana itself.

So far, about 2,000 people have signed the petition, which he hopes will prompt action in the Assembly. For the time being, he's not seeking a ballot initiative, but is looking to other marijuana advocacy groups like California NORML to begin organizing protests in Sacramento to bring more attention to the issue.

Mike Gray, a longtime marijuana advocate and president of the L.A.-based Common Sense for Drug Policy, said this movement has more fervor than others he's seen.

"I've seen a flood of e-mail unlike anything I've ever seen. ... just in the last 48 hours," Gray said. He added that he will be fundraising to drive the movement in hopes of getting friendly ears in Sacramento. He said so far, no lawmakers he's aware of have expressed interest in the idea.

At root, however, Schaffer says his proposal is more than just a ploy to bring marijuana to the masses.

"My first hope is that they would take my offer and fund the desperately needed programs that need to be funded," Schaffer said.

I hope everyone that lives in California gets on board with this.

 

[Angel Heart]

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

Myth: Marijuana's Harms Have Been Proved Scientifically. In the 1960s and 1970s, many people believed that marijuana was harmless. Today we know that marijuana is much more dangerous than previously believed.

Fact: In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies of humans, animals, and cell cultures. None reveal any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. In 1995, based on thirty years of scientific research editors of the British medical journal Lancet concluded that "the smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health."

Myth: Marijuana Has No Medicinal Value. Safer, more effective drugs are available. They include a synthetic version of THC, marijuana's primary active ingredient, which is marketed in the United States under the name Marinol.

Fact: Marijuana has been shown to be effective in reducing the nausea induced by cancer chemotherapy, stimulating appetite in AIDS patients, and reducing intraocular pressure in people with glaucoma. There is also appreciable evidence that marijuana reduces muscle spasticity in patients with neurological disorders. A synthetic capsule is available by prescription, but it is not as effective as smoked marijuana for many patients. Pure THC may also produce more unpleasant psychoactive side effects than smoked marijuana. Many people use marijuana as a medicine today, despite its illegality. In doing so, they risk arrest and imprisonment.

Myth: Marijuana is Highly Addictive. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits.

Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

Myth: Marijuana is a Gateway Drug. Even if marijuana itself causes minimal harm, it is a dangerous substance because it leads to the use of "harder drugs" like heroin, LSD, and cocaine.

Fact: Marijuana does not cause people to use hard drugs. What the gateway theory presents as a causal explanation is a statistic association between common and uncommon drugs, an association that changes over time as different drugs increase and decrease in prevalence. Marijuana is the most popular illegal drug in the United States today. Therefore, people who have used less popular drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and LSD, are likely to have also used marijuana. Most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the large majority of people, marijuana is a terminus rather than a gateway drug.

Myth: Marijuana Offenses Are Not Severely Punished. Few marijuana law violators are arrested and hardly anyone goes to prison. This lenient treatment is responsible for marijuana continued availability and use.

Fact: Marijuana arrests in the United States doubled between 1991 and 1995. In 1995, more than one-half-million people were arrested for marijuana offenses. Eighty-six percent of them were arrested for marijuana possession. Tens of thousands of people are now in prison or marijuana offenses. An even greater number are punished with probation, fines, and civil sanctions, including having their property seized, their driver's license revoked, and their employment terminated. Despite these civil and criminal sanctions, marijuana continues to be readily available and widely used.

Myth: Marijuana Policy in the Netherlands is a Failure. Dutch law, which allows marijuana to be bought, sold, and used openly, has resulted in increasing rates of marijuana use, particularly in youth.

Fact: The Netherlands' drug policy is the most non punitive in Europe. For more than twenty years, Dutch citizens over age eighteen have been permitted to buy and use cannabis (marijuana and hashish) in government-regulated coffee shops. This policy has not resulted in dramatically escalating cannabis use. For most age groups, rates of marijuana use in the Netherlands are similar to those in the United States. However, for young adolescents, rates of marijuana use are lower in the Netherlands than in the United States. The Dutch people overwhelmingly approve of current cannabis policy which seeks to normalize rather than dramatize cannabis use. The Dutch government occasionally revises existing policy, but it remains committed to decriminalization.

Myth: Marijuana Kills Brain Cells. Used over time, marijuana permanently alters brain structure and function, causing memory loss, cognitive impairment, personality deterioration, and reduced productivity.

Fact: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

Myth: Marijuana Causes an Amotivational Syndrome. Marijuana makes users passive, apathetic, and uninterested in the future. Students who use marijuana become underachievers and workers who use marijuana become unproductive.

Fact: For twenty-five years, researchers have searched for a marijuana-induced amotivational syndrome and have failed to find it. People who are intoxicated constantly, regardless of the drug, are unlikely to be productive members of society. There is nothing about marijuana specifically that causes people to lose their drive and ambition. In laboratory studies, subjects given high doses of marijuana for several days or even several weeks exhibit no decrease in work motivation or productivity. Among working adults, marijuana users tend to earn higher wages than non-users. College students who use marijuana have the same grades as nonusers. Among high school students, heavy use is associated with school failure, but school failure usually comes first.

Myth: Marijuana Impairs Memory and Cognition. Under the influence of marijuana, people are unable to think rationally and intelligently. Chronic marijuana use causes permanent mental impairment.

Fact: Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of the intoxication. There is no convincing evidence that heavy long-term marijuana use permanently impairs memory or other cognitive functions.

Myth: Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness. Among adolescents, even occasional marijuana use may cause psychological damage. During intoxication, marijuana users become irrational and often behave erratically.

Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

Myth: Marijuana Causes Crime. Marijuana users commit more property offenses than nonusers. Under the influence of marijuana, people become irrational, aggressive, and violent.

Fact: Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes other than the crime of possessing marijuana. Among marijuana users who do commit crimes, marijuana plays no causal role. Almost all human and animal studies show that marijuana decreases rather than increases aggression.

Myth: Marijuana Interferes With Male and Female Sex Hormones. In both men and women, marijuana can cause infertility. Marijuana retards sexual development in adolescents. It produces feminine characteristics in males and masculine characteristics in females.

Fact: There is no evidence that marijuana causes infertility in men or women. In animal studies, high doses of THC diminish the production of some sex hormones and can impair reproduction. However, most studies of humans have found that marijuana has no impact of sex hormones. In those studies showing an impact, it is modest, temporary, and of no apparent consequence for reproduction. There is no scientific evidence that marijuana delays adolescent sexual development, has feminizing effect on males, or a masculinizing effect on females.

Myth: Marijuana Use During Pregnancy Damages the Fetus. Prenatal marijuana exposure causes birth defects in babies, and, as they grow older, developmental problems. The health and well being of the next generation is threatened by marijuana use by pregnant women.

Fact: Studies of newborns, infants, and children show no consistent physical, developmental, or cognitive deficits related to prenatal marijuana exposure. Marijuana had no reliable impact on birth size, length of gestation, neurological development, or the occurrence of physical abnormalities. The administration of hundreds of tests to older children has revealed only minor differences between offspring of marijuana users and nonusers, and some are positive rather than negative. Two unconfirmed case-control studies identified prenatal marijuana exposure as one of many factors statistically associated with childhood cancer. Given other available evidence, it is highly unlikely that marijuana causes cancer in children.

Myth: Marijuana Use Impairs the Immune System. Marijuana users are at increased risk of infection, including HIV. AIDS patients are particularly vulnerable to marijuana's immunopathic effects because their immune systems are already suppressed.

Fact: There is no evidence that marijuana users are more susceptible to infections than nonusers. Nor is there evidence that marijuana lowers users' resistance to sexually transmitted diseases. Early studies which showed decreased immune function in cells taken from marijuana users have since been disproved. Animals given extremely large doses of THC and exposed to a virus have higher rates of infection. Such studies have little relevance to humans. Even among people with existing immune disorders, such as AIDS, marijuana use appears to be relatively safe. However, the recent finding of an association between tobacco smoking and lung infection in AIDS patients warrants further research into possible harm from marijuana smoking in immune suppressed persons.

Myth: Marijuana is More Damaging to the Lungs Than Tobacco. Marijuana smokers are at a high risk of developing lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema.

Fact: Moderate smoking of marijuana appears to pose minimal danger to the lungs. Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains a number of irritants and carcinogens. But marijuana users typically smoke much less often than tobacco smokers, and over time, inhale much less smoke. As a result, the risk of serious lung damage should be lower in marijuana smokers. There have been no reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana, and in a large study presented to the American Thoracic Society in 2006, even heavy users of smoked marijuana were found not to have any increased risk of lung cancer. Unlike heavy tobacco smokers, heavy marijuana smokers exhibit no obstruction of the lung's small airway. That indicates that people will not develop emphysema from smoking marijuana.

Myth: Marijuana's Active Ingredient, THC, Gets Trapped in Body Fat. Because THC is released from fat cells slowly, psychoactive effects may last for days or weeks following use. THC's long persistence in the body damages organs that are high in fat content, the brain in particular.

Fact: Many active drugs enter the body's fat cells. What is different (but not unique) about THC is that it exits fat cells slowly. As a result, traces of marijuana can be found in the body for days or weeks following ingestion. However, within a few hours of smoking marijuana, the amount of THC in the brain falls below the concentration required for detectable psychoactivity. The fat cells in which THC lingers are not harmed by the drug's presence, nor is the brain or other organs. The most important consequence of marijuana's slow excretion is that it can be detected in blood, urine, and tissue long after it is used, and long after its psychoactivity has ended.

Myth: Marijuana Use is a Major Cause Of Highway Accidents. Like alcohol, marijuana impairs psychomotor function and decreases driving ability. If marijuana use increases, an increase in of traffic fatalities is inevitable.

Fact: There is no compelling evidence that marijuana contributes substantially to traffic accidents and fatalities. At some doses, marijuana affects perception and psychomotor performances- changes which could impair driving ability. However, in driving studies, marijuana produces little or no car-handling impairment- consistently less than produced by low moderate doses of alcohol and many legal medications. In contrast to alcohol, which tends to increase risky driving practices, marijuana tends to make subjects more cautious. Surveys of fatally injured drivers show that when THC is detected in the blood, alcohol is almost always detected as well. For some individuals, marijuana may play a role in bad driving. The overall rate of highway accidents appears not to be significantly affected by marijuana's widespread use in society.

Myth: Marijuana Related Hospital Emergencies Are Increasing, Particularly Among Youth. This is evidence that marijuana is much more harmful than most people previously believed.

Fact: Marijuana does not cause overdose deaths. The number of people in hospital emergency rooms who say they have used marijuana has increased. On this basis, the visit may be recorded as marijuana-related even if marijuana had nothing to do with the medical condition preceding the hospital visit. Many more teenagers use marijuana than use drugs such as heroin and cocaine. As a result, when teenagers visit hospital emergency rooms, they report marijuana much more frequently than they report heroin and cocaine. In the large majority of cases when marijuana is mentioned, other drugs are mentioned as well. In 1994, fewer than 2% of drug related emergency room visits involved the use of marijuana.

Myth: Marijuana Is More Potent Today Than In The Past. Adults who used marijuana in the 1960s and 1970s fail to realize that when today's youth use marijuana they are using a much more dangerous drug.

Fact: When today's youth use marijuana, they are using the same drug used by youth in the 1960s and 1970s. A small number of low-THC sample sized by the Drug Enforcement Administration are used to calculate a dramatic increase in potency. However, these samples were not representative of the marijuana generally available to users during this era. Potency data from the early 1980s to the present are more reliable, and they show no increase in the average THC content of marijuana. Even if marijuana potency were to increase, it would not necessarily make the drug more dangerous. Marijuana that varies quite substantially in potency produces similar psychoactive effects.

Myth: Marijuana Use Can Be Prevented. Drug education and prevention programs reduced marijuana use during the 1980s. Since then, our commitment has slackened, and marijuana use has been rising. By expanding and intensifying current anti-marijuana messages, we can stop youthful experimentation.

Fact: There is no evidence that anti-drug messages diminish young people's interest in drugs. Anti-drug campaigns in the schools and the media may even make drugs more attractive. Marijuana use among youth declined throughout the 1980s, and began increasing in the 1990s. This increase occurred despite young people's exposure to the most massive anti-marijuana campaign in American history. In a number of other countries, drug education programs are based on a "harm reduction" model, which seeks to reduce the drug-related harm among those young people who do experiment with drugs.

 

[Larkinn]

And of course the continued posts in this thread where she keeps on making the clam that the Government was most definately involved?

I bet you do not agree with the reports that Gore was meeting with Chinese operatives to get bribe money do you? Yet it to is a "Government" report.

Most definitely involved in what? That claim is vague. Make it a bit more concrete and I'll have something to say. And the only reports about Gore taking bribes from the Chinese has been from you, and considering your track record on what other people say, I don't really have much faith in it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Most definitely involved in what? That claim is vague. Make it a bit more concrete and I'll have something to say. And the only reports about Gore taking bribes from the Chinese has been from you, and considering your track record on what other people say, I don't really have much faith in it.

How old where you in the 90's? Just curious how you have never heard of this is all.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_199803/ai_n8791199

 

[Larkinn]

How old where you in the 90's? Just curious how you have never heard of this is all.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_199803/ai_n8791199

Well the 90's was 10 years. But when it started I was 6. Or 5 I guess.

Besides that...from the article the statement "Gore took bribes from the Chinese" is highly, highly misleading.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well the 90's was 10 years. But when it started I was 6. Or 5 I guess.

Besides that...from the article the statement "Gore took bribes from the Chinese" is highly, highly misleading.

Sure thing. Just admit your wrong and we will move on.

 

[Larkinn]

Sure thing. Just admit your wrong and we will move on.

A campaign donation is not a bribe. Sorry, but no. Do you honestly believe this bullshit?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A campaign donation is not a bribe. Sorry, but no. Do you honestly believe this bullshit?

Illegal "donations" from a foreign Country are most assuradely "bribes" They meet the criteria of said charge completely. Further they "bribes" worked. Clinton authorized the sale of highly classified information to China afterwards.

 

[Larkinn]

Illegal "donations" from a foreign Country are most assuradely "bribes" They meet the criteria of said charge completely. Further they "bribes" worked. Clinton authorized the sale of highly classified information to China afterwards.

No, whether they are given illegally or not as a donation they are still a donation. A bribe has to do with the intended effect...which I suppose technically most large donations are bribes really.

And correlation does not mean causation.

 

[Ruby]

And of course the continued posts in this thread where she keeps on making the clam that the Government was most definately involved?

I bet you do not agree with the reports that Gore was meeting with Chinese operatives to get bribe money do you? Yet it to is a "Government" report.

Do you have a problem with facts? Just because you dont like the information dosent discredit the information. This information is coming from our CIA, court testimonies that have been scrutinized and validated as truthful, DEA agents, and senate committee findings after an investigation.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do you have a problem with facts? Just because you dont like the information dosent discredit the information. This information is coming from our CIA, court testimonies that have been scrutinized and validated as truthful, DEA agents, and senate committee findings after an investigation.

So where the reports on Chinese " Donations". Again, remind me, who got prosecuted for these illegal activeties? If we have all this proof it was done, why was no one charged and brought to trial?

 

[Ruby]

So where the reports on Chinese " Donations". Again, remind me, who got prosecuted for these illegal activeties? If we have all this proof it was done, why was no one charged and brought to trial?

I dont see any reports on chinese donations and you didnt link to one nor do I think chinese donations are illegal. I didnt see you provide all this "proof" of a crime committed. You submitted somthing saying a person who donated money also had direct ties to the chinese govt, where is the crime exactly?

Israel has numerous public and open ties to american jewish lobby groups who donate like crazy to political campaigns and their mission is clear and they state openly that their agenda and priority is nation other than the US. They have direct ties to the Israeli govt. Those donations result in Israel being the number 1 country we give money to, we give Israel more money that ANY OTHER nation and Egypt is second and that money is provided to assure that Egypt keeps good ties and relations with Israel (so its actually money for Israel and is certainly bribe money) but I doubt anyone will go to jail over that either.

Secondly, in the cases I highlight there have been prosecutions but there have also been political pardons, certainly plenty of guilty that werent charged, as well as light sentencing. Its the standard corruption, we catch em, big scandal and then the sentencing or lack therof is the next corrupt step we deal with but by then the apathetic public is hit with the next scandal and stands there drooling in apathy at their television.

You dont even seem to be very aware of the Iran Contra scandal and its been common knowledge since then that the CIA participated in drug trafficing (as well as other illegal activities). There were convictions, about half were pardoned and one had his conviction overturned on a technicality...that info is in the links I provided and are a matter of public record.